PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

S1ipperyJim · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

it is good as it stops duct tape tanks and make tanking more active.

A lot of people have been repeating this. I'm curious, in what way do you think no stam regen while blocking makes tanking more active?

This was a move designed to address a PVP issue that was actually a non issue as it was a build used by very few people anyway, simply stopping block casting would have been much more effective without going overboard. The problem is by attempting to stop a few people perma blocking in PVP they also butchered Tanks ability in PVE, ie the majority of Tanks in ESO.

Halke · July 2015

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

As an eso paying customer,no I dont. I didn't ask for this change and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.with all the arguing going on it seems the ones who don't like are offering compromise while it seems the one who want it just say adapt.why not meet in the middle and compromise as well?

I actually hate the change personally. 50% reduction maybe, but 100% is simply over the top for PvE. My point was that you can still survive and complete the content.

Nifty2g · July 2015

What I find hilarious is that the top tanks have all shared their opinions on this and they are saying they don't like the change for the casual player. Then you hear randoms saying they like the changes.
Wonder who ZOS will listen to
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert are you guys watching this thread?

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

I suppose I should have mentioned that I was in PVP today.

How about the people who think block casting shouldn't be allowed adapt?

Personofsecrets · July 2015

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

As an eso paying customer,no I dont. I didn't ask for this change and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.with all the arguing going on it seems the ones who don't like are offering compromise while it seems the one who want it just say adapt.why not meet in the middle and compromise as well?

You are right about the majority of people who don't like it.

I want to take a moment to say that I don't want a compromise. I want things to stay as they currently are on live.

The reason for this is pretty simple. Eric didn't give us a correct reason for the change. Tanking uninteractive and boring? I think not. Justifying a change on something that is wrong? I still think not. This isn't even to mention all of the reasons that the change doesn't work to meet their goal of interaction and fun.

Nifty2g · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

As an eso paying customer,no I dont. I didn't ask for this change and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.with all the arguing going on it seems the ones who don't like are offering compromise while it seems the one who want it just say adapt.why not meet in the middle and compromise as well?

You are right about the majority of people who don't like it.

I want to take a moment to say that I don't want a compromise. I want things to stay as they currently are on live.

The reason for this is pretty simple. Eric didn't give us a correct reason for the change. Tanking uninteractive and boring? I think not. Justifying a change on something that is wrong? I still think not. This isn't even to mention all of the reasons that the change doesn't work to meet their goal of interaction and fun.

This change also came out of nowhere, a lot of people are not going to be ready for a drastic change like this to fix a problem in PvP that really has never been an issue for PvE players especially when it directly affects tanking in PvP.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

As an eso paying customer,no I dont. I didn't ask for this change and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.with all the arguing going on it seems the ones who don't like are offering compromise while it seems the one who want it just say adapt.why not meet in the middle and compromise as well?

You are right about the majority of people who don't like it.

I want to take a moment to say that I don't want a compromise. I want things to stay as they currently are on live.

The reason for this is pretty simple. Eric didn't give us a correct reason for the change. Tanking uninteractive and boring? I think not. Justifying a change on something that is wrong? I still think not. This isn't even to mention all of the reasons that the change doesn't work to meet their goal of interaction and fun.

This change also came out of nowhere, a lot of people are not going to be ready for a drastic change like this to fix a problem in PvP that really has never been an issue for PvE players especially when it directly affects tanking in PvP.

I have limited pvp experience, but don't even see the issue with perma blocking there either. I enjoy the duels I have done that have ended in me winning, them winning, and draws. Usually, if I get outnumbered I die. I don't get whats unfair about this when there are plenty of other things that are gotten away with.

The last experience I had as a tank in PVP involved me and some friends on a bridge fighting. The group we were fighting against also had a tank, which was the first one I had noticed after playing all day. It was alot of fun going up against them. Sometimes we would wipe them and they would run back. Some times we had the walk of shame. Sometimes they would ignore me and sometimes they chose to spike me down with all of their strength. These are the types of fights I would rather have, many times over, than facing off against a fully shielded sorc over and over or against a vanishing nightblade again and again.

Maybe if I didn't feel shoehorned into playing as a tank in PVP do to how I have to spec my attribute points and, more importantly, champion points, I wouldn't have as much of an issue with the change in pvp.

Maybe if I didn't get hit for 19k while not blocking and maybe if DK Scales wasn't nerfd to the point of seeming broken, I wouldn't have as much of an issue with the change in pvp.

Maybe if a bunch of PVE content wasn't taking place in Cyrodiil, where I inevitably will die from lack of stamina, which happened often today, I wouldn't have as much of an issue with the change in pvp.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the stamina regeneration nerf and the change to the hollow moon garb (which lord thornos is very said about), I would be quite pleased with 2.1.

Bromburak · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

As an eso paying customer,no I dont. I didn't ask for this change and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.with all the arguing going on it seems the ones who don't like are offering compromise while it seems the one who want it just say adapt.why not meet in the middle and compromise as well?

You are right about the majority of people who don't like it.

I want to take a moment to say that I don't want a compromise. I want things to stay as they currently are on live.

The reason for this is pretty simple. Eric didn't give us a correct reason for the change. Tanking uninteractive and boring? I think not. Justifying a change on something that is wrong? I still think not. This isn't even to mention all of the reasons that the change doesn't work to meet their goal of interaction and fun.

This change also came out of nowhere, a lot of people are not going to be ready for a drastic change like this to fix a problem in PvP that really has never been an issue for PvE players especially when it directly affects tanking in PvP.

This would support my theory, ZOS doesn't really want tanking in terms of trinity systems to push their hybrid and solo system. It explains the lack of group content, its just not their target group.

Korah_Eaglecry · July 2015

Bromburak wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

As an eso paying customer,no I dont. I didn't ask for this change and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.with all the arguing going on it seems the ones who don't like are offering compromise while it seems the one who want it just say adapt.why not meet in the middle and compromise as well?

You are right about the majority of people who don't like it.

I want to take a moment to say that I don't want a compromise. I want things to stay as they currently are on live.

The reason for this is pretty simple. Eric didn't give us a correct reason for the change. Tanking uninteractive and boring? I think not. Justifying a change on something that is wrong? I still think not. This isn't even to mention all of the reasons that the change doesn't work to meet their goal of interaction and fun.

This change also came out of nowhere, a lot of people are not going to be ready for a drastic change like this to fix a problem in PvP that really has never been an issue for PvE players especially when it directly affects tanking in PvP.

This would support my theory, ZOS doesn't really want tanking in terms of trinity systems to push their hybrid and solo system. It explains the lack of group content, its just not their target group.

I seriously doubt that this move is for their target group. This is flat out a move to remove an issue in PvP, that is very rare, that is now going to vastly effect PvE.

Just about every major nerf/buff that has made things worse has come from changes based on PvP experience.

I completely understand the need to make changes so that PvP is fair and balanced. But at this point, theyre making changes that have absolutely no consideration for how it will stand against the higher end PvE content.

Its about time ZOS admit to themselves that they cant keep making these sweeping changes to balances and start looking at separating PvP and PvE mechanics.

Bromburak · July 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

As an eso paying customer,no I dont. I didn't ask for this change and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.with all the arguing going on it seems the ones who don't like are offering compromise while it seems the one who want it just say adapt.why not meet in the middle and compromise as well?

You are right about the majority of people who don't like it.

I want to take a moment to say that I don't want a compromise. I want things to stay as they currently are on live.

The reason for this is pretty simple. Eric didn't give us a correct reason for the change. Tanking uninteractive and boring? I think not. Justifying a change on something that is wrong? I still think not. This isn't even to mention all of the reasons that the change doesn't work to meet their goal of interaction and fun.

This change also came out of nowhere, a lot of people are not going to be ready for a drastic change like this to fix a problem in PvP that really has never been an issue for PvE players especially when it directly affects tanking in PvP.

This would support my theory, ZOS doesn't really want tanking in terms of trinity systems to push their hybrid and solo system. It explains the lack of group content, its just not their target group.

I seriously doubt that this move is for their target group. This is flat out a move to remove an issue in PvP, that is very rare, that is now going to vastly effect PvE.

We will see, if they don't re evaluate the current blocking situation I doubt it was a flat move only ...
Thats the big question, was it a mistake or on purpose.

Before release , it was clear that ZOS is not making any difference between PvE and PvP , that was a doubtful move since release because everyone knew that future changes have different impact on PvE and PvP. Its' a questionable system and the current change is just the perfect example for this.

Mojmir · July 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

As an eso paying customer,no I dont. I didn't ask for this change and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.with all the arguing going on it seems the ones who don't like are offering compromise while it seems the one who want it just say adapt.why not meet in the middle and compromise as well?

You are right about the majority of people who don't like it.

I want to take a moment to say that I don't want a compromise. I want things to stay as they currently are on live.

The reason for this is pretty simple. Eric didn't give us a correct reason for the change. Tanking uninteractive and boring? I think not. Justifying a change on something that is wrong? I still think not. This isn't even to mention all of the reasons that the change doesn't work to meet their goal of interaction and fun.

This change also came out of nowhere, a lot of people are not going to be ready for a drastic change like this to fix a problem in PvP that really has never been an issue for PvE players especially when it directly affects tanking in PvP.

This would support my theory, ZOS doesn't really want tanking in terms of trinity systems to push their hybrid and solo system. It explains the lack of group content, its just not their target group.

I seriously doubt that this move is for their target group. This is flat out a move to remove an issue in PvP, that is very rare, that is now going to vastly effect PvE.

Just about every major nerf/buff that has made things worse has come from changes based on PvP experience.

I completely understand the need to make changes so that PvP is fair and balanced. But at this point, theyre making changes that have absolutely no consideration for how it will stand against the higher end PvE content.

Its about time ZOS admit to themselves that they cant keep making these sweeping changes to balances and start looking at separating PvP and PvE mechanics.

this appears to be just like a lazy parent not interested in justice but more or less quiet, lazy developing IMO. punish everyone because someone else messed up. far fetched idea, why not make it another mode for dungeons,trials and what not. "insane mode" for the LEET who dont need regen, you can hire a healer NPC to just heal you while you commence with all your badassery.

Avenias · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Just been playing on the PTS for a little bit. Pretty much have to roll over and die because blocking isn't allowed.

Is this a joke? People are already completing the new vet dungeons. Don't know of any raid groups, but since those don't scale they don't matter anymore. You just have to adapt...

As an eso paying customer,no I dont. I didn't ask for this change and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.with all the arguing going on it seems the ones who don't like are offering compromise while it seems the one who want it just say adapt.why not meet in the middle and compromise as well?

You are right about the majority of people who don't like it.

I want to take a moment to say that I don't want a compromise. I want things to stay as they currently are on live.

The reason for this is pretty simple. Eric didn't give us a correct reason for the change. Tanking uninteractive and boring? I think not. Justifying a change on something that is wrong? I still think not. This isn't even to mention all of the reasons that the change doesn't work to meet their goal of interaction and fun.

if they want to nerf block, then nerf heals and dps also. For heals, make sure magicka drains just as fast as stamina while blocking and for dps, make sure their magicka and stamina drains just as fast as blocking.

Smiteye · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Wow @DDuke , I am really impressed by how you can flip the script about who is all knowing and who isn't. It is almost as if when someone points out why a previous claim of yours is doubtful that you switch to using a totally different argument.

>Calls anti-nerfers whiners
>Gets called out for making silly claims about how completing veteran dungeons with a roll dodging build is somehow related to tanking being boring.
>Claims I'm not a game dev with the implication that I therefore can't be insightful about the stamina regeneration nerf.
>non-eso game dev shows up with disapproval about the stamina-regen nerf
>Creates the framing that only an eso dev can be insightful
>Gets told to recall the time that they agreed how ESO developers have done plenty of silly stuff in the past
>Changes subject back to being about me

That is a pretty neat trick that you are able to do.

So much egg on ur face now we have run trials on test server. Bet u wont be back to say u were wrong and sorry for being so rude to all who didn't fawn over u and ur sky falling tank too tough junk. If so color me surprised.

Smiteye · July 2015

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

it is good as it stops duct tape tanks and make tanking more active.

A lot of people have been repeating this. I'm curious, in what way do you think no stam regen while blocking makes tanking more active?

This was a move designed to address a PVP issue that was actually a non issue as it was a build used by very few people anyway, simply stopping block casting would have been much more effective without going overboard. The problem is by attempting to stop a few people perma blocking in PVP they also butchered Tanks ability in PVE, ie the majority of Tanks in ESO.

U keep repeating that, doesn't make it tru. Block in pvp was a non factor it is pve it was hysterically hilarious too ez. Run DSA on test last nite to stage 9 b4 tank had to log for work, stop whining. Added bit of much needed activity to tanks! Not heard a single whine in game test server all week yet. U should log in and l2p if ur worried still.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

it is good as it stops duct tape tanks and make tanking more active.

A lot of people have been repeating this. I'm curious, in what way do you think no stam regen while blocking makes tanking more active?

This was a move designed to address a PVP issue that was actually a non issue as it was a build used by very few people anyway, simply stopping block casting would have been much more effective without going overboard. The problem is by attempting to stop a few people perma blocking in PVP they also butchered Tanks ability in PVE, ie the majority of Tanks in ESO.

U keep repeating that, doesn't make it tru. Block in pvp was a non factor it is pve it was hysterically hilarious too ez. Run DSA on test last nite to stage 9 b4 tank had to log for work, stop whining. Added bit of much needed activity to tanks! Not heard a single whine in game test server all week yet. U should log in and l2p if ur worried still.

"U", "Tru","ez","nite","b4"

"Not heard a single whine in game test server all week yet." Because test server feedback is being posted on PTS forums.

Also you are just repeating same lie over and over again "blocking in pve was hilarious" and "this will make tanking more active".

If you would bother to read some of the topics with feedback to this unjustified nerf to stamina regeneration, maybe you would realise there is nothing boring in tanking right now, and if someone finds tanking boring (im talking about actual tanks, because lets face it, all the PVP DPSes have nothing to say in this case, because they will be anyway all in favour for this change, just to be able to one shot kill another class of players) its only his own fault. And you will find some actual arguments supporting that not just

"Wo m8 i wuz last nite in dsa made stagez X before tanks had to gtg 4 later so stop cryin l2p 11oneone kthx bye"

Tankqull · July 2015

Bromburak wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

eventually that is exactly what ZOS aims for? not "mindlessly" burst down the bosses but actually play their mechanics?

You have no idea of specific mechanics, so do Designers and developers because they don't play the related content at their limits like the best players do.

Just because 90% is casual ideal typical content that only requires basics you cannot ignore the other 5-10%.
Thats why developers must evaluate more carefully and situational to find a reasonable compromise.

ok so how much stamina reg do you actually have the common 6-800(race depending) wich resembles (as we have learned blocking cost 2.4k stamina) to one effective block gained every 16 sec? or are you one of the 1 in a million with actually 2-4k stamina reg while tanking? that are 4 additional blocks per minute and you are trying to tell me that you cant live without those 4 blocks...?

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

it is good as it stops duct tape tanks and make tanking more active.

A lot of people have been repeating this. I'm curious, in what way do you think no stam regen while blocking makes tanking more active?

This was a move designed to address a PVP issue that was actually a non issue as it was a build used by very few people anyway, simply stopping block casting would have been much more effective without going overboard. The problem is by attempting to stop a few people perma blocking in PVP they also butchered Tanks ability in PVE, ie the majority of Tanks in ESO.

the alternative was to deny 50+% of the dmg dealt by a blocker after blocking an attack within the last 2-4seconds. with the uproar of the DPS-tank faction telling us how busy they are while tanking you do believe that would be a better choice? hardly doubt so as all other of the trinity will jump in aswell as any efficency reduction by blocking would harm them alot more than a tank itself...

Pompeyfluff · July 2015

so...24hrs in PTS whats the general feeling.

Please only answer if you have been testing the tank build and not just a generic "keep the change/stop the change"

Bromburak · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

eventually that is exactly what ZOS aims for? not "mindlessly" burst down the bosses but actually play their mechanics?

You have no idea of specific mechanics, so do Designers and developers because they don't play the related content at their limits like the best players do.

Just because 90% is casual ideal typical content that only requires basics you cannot ignore the other 5-10%.
Thats why developers must evaluate more carefully and situational to find a reasonable compromise.

ok so how much stamina reg do you actually have the common 6-800(race depending) wich resembles (as we have learned blocking cost 2.4k stamina) to one effective block gained every 16 sec? or are you one of the 1 in a million with actually 2-4k stamina reg while tanking? that are 4 additional blocks per minute and you are trying to tell me that you cant live without those 4 blocks...?

Silly, please tank Mantikora and lets see what happens to your stamina and if you can live with your weird strategy.

Tankqull · July 2015

Bromburak wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

eventually that is exactly what ZOS aims for? not "mindlessly" burst down the bosses but actually play their mechanics?

You have no idea of specific mechanics, so do Designers and developers because they don't play the related content at their limits like the best players do.

Just because 90% is casual ideal typical content that only requires basics you cannot ignore the other 5-10%.
Thats why developers must evaluate more carefully and situational to find a reasonable compromise.

ok so how much stamina reg do you actually have the common 6-800(race depending) wich resembles (as we have learned blocking cost 2.4k stamina) to one effective block gained every 16 sec? or are you one of the 1 in a million with actually 2-4k stamina reg while tanking? that are 4 additional blocks per minute and you are trying to tell me that you cant live without those 4 blocks...?

Silly, please tank Mantikora and lets see what happens to your stamina and if you can live with your weird strategy.

its no strategy just a simple question how much stamina reg do you actually have that you are missing so much that this thread needs to have 30+ pages?

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Pompeyfluff wrote: »

so...24hrs in PTS whats the general feeling.

Please only answer if you have been testing the tank build and not just a generic "keep the change/stop the change"

My experience yesterday in pvp were a few things.

1. shield charge felt really bad to use.

2. biting jabs felt overpowered
Previously a counter to that was to roll dodge and block. That doesn't really work now. It is simple math - someone is going to run out of blocking stamina, when they have no regen, against someone using biting jabs who has their regen intact. I'm fine with this ability on live.

3. teleporting strike was better
Waiting, with the block button, for a nightblade to unstealth was cool and now isn't as practical

4. mass hysteria felt overpowered
not being able to block due to the stamina regeneration nerf and being put under the effect of hysteria when blocking was a lose lose situation. I'm fine with this ability on live.

Basically, I was knowing that I had to block at certain points and not feeling allowed to due to wanting to conserve stamina. Over TS coms I kept hearing non-tanks calling out that they had no stamina.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

Bet u wont be back to say u were wrong and sorry for being so rude to all who didn't fawn over u and ur sky falling tank too tough junk.

Umm, mayb cuz im not m8 lulz

Bromburak · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

eventually that is exactly what ZOS aims for? not "mindlessly" burst down the bosses but actually play their mechanics?

You have no idea of specific mechanics, so do Designers and developers because they don't play the related content at their limits like the best players do.

Just because 90% is casual ideal typical content that only requires basics you cannot ignore the other 5-10%.
Thats why developers must evaluate more carefully and situational to find a reasonable compromise.

ok so how much stamina reg do you actually have the common 6-800(race depending) wich resembles (as we have learned blocking cost 2.4k stamina) to one effective block gained every 16 sec? or are you one of the 1 in a million with actually 2-4k stamina reg while tanking? that are 4 additional blocks per minute and you are trying to tell me that you cant live without those 4 blocks...?

Silly, please tank Mantikora and lets see what happens to your stamina and if you can live with your weird strategy.

its no strategy just a simple question how much stamina reg do you actually have

You need to come away from stats thinking, to understand the problem.
As I mentioned before its about the 5-10% that is being totally ignored by developers and vDSA is part of it.

That actually kills the content and I will explain you why this is the case.

Today, vDSA is easy, not because our skill, it's because we are over geared and out leveled the content.
Something that turns raids into Mickey Mouse adventures like WoW.
Silly gear score addicts think they are good because they are over geared. Perfect marketing and motivation for players. Make players feel great, gear will forgive several mistakes and the price is less discipline with ultra trivial phase timers. Silly ...

Once again, this is not about skill and alternatives.
It doesn't matter if I am able to kite Mantikora to death with my NB.

This is about TANKING AND BLOCKING.

Mechanics and abilities need to work properly, so that players are able to play a role like a tank including blocking and finish content with pure skill and not because we are over geared and over leveled hybrids.

Halke · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Pompeyfluff wrote: »

so...24hrs in PTS whats the general feeling.

Please only answer if you have been testing the tank build and not just a generic "keep the change/stop the change"

My experience yesterday in pvp were a few things.

1. shield charge felt really bad to use.

2. biting jabs felt overpowered
Previously a counter to that was to roll dodge and block. That doesn't really work now. It is simple math - someone is going to run out of blocking stamina, when they have no regen, against someone using biting jabs who has their regen intact. I'm fine with this ability on live.

3. teleporting strike was better
Waiting, with the block button, for a nightblade to unstealth was cool and now isn't as practical

4. mass hysteria felt overpowered
not being able to block due to the stamina regeneration nerf and being put under the effect of hysteria when blocking was a lose lose situation. I'm fine with this ability on live.

Basically, I was knowing that I had to block at certain points and not feeling allowed to due to wanting to conserve stamina. Over TS coms I kept hearing non-tanks calling out that they had no stamina.

Going to run my gank build around Cyrodiil on PTS today, but what you said sort of confirms what I was thinking. I get out of biting jabs by stealthing and roll dodging, pretty much my whole build is made so I don't have to block. But I have noticed that block is all anyone has against my ganking. If I let down stealth and alert them that I am there, they better damn well be able to hold block and make me look like an arse if I jump in at them. And fear already takes so much stamina away, from what I have seen people need to be able to put a block right back up, because when I fear you I go in for the kill hard.

How is it affecting going up against Sorcs or DKs?

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Halke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Pompeyfluff wrote: »

so...24hrs in PTS whats the general feeling.

Please only answer if you have been testing the tank build and not just a generic "keep the change/stop the change"

My experience yesterday in pvp were a few things.

1. shield charge felt really bad to use.

2. biting jabs felt overpowered
Previously a counter to that was to roll dodge and block. That doesn't really work now. It is simple math - someone is going to run out of blocking stamina, when they have no regen, against someone using biting jabs who has their regen intact. I'm fine with this ability on live.

3. teleporting strike was better
Waiting, with the block button, for a nightblade to unstealth was cool and now isn't as practical

4. mass hysteria felt overpowered
not being able to block due to the stamina regeneration nerf and being put under the effect of hysteria when blocking was a lose lose situation. I'm fine with this ability on live.

Basically, I was knowing that I had to block at certain points and not feeling allowed to due to wanting to conserve stamina. Over TS coms I kept hearing non-tanks calling out that they had no stamina.

Going to run my gank build around Cyrodiil on PTS today, but what you said sort of confirms what I was thinking. I get out of biting jabs by stealthing and roll dodging, pretty much my whole build is made so I don't have to block. But I have noticed that block is all anyone has against my ganking. If I let down stealth and alert them that I am there, they better damn well be able to hold block and make me look like an arse if I jump in at them. And fear already takes so much stamina away, from what I have seen people need to be able to put a block right back up, because when I fear you I go in for the kill hard.

How is it affecting going up against Sorcs or DKs?

I only faced off against a couple of sorcs. One continuously shielded against me and ran away. The other seemed to not be able to escape my talons and eventually died.

I can't recall fighting any DKs, but I will try to instigate as I play on PTS more.

biovitalb16_ESO · July 2015

This nerf is just compounded by the WW stam nerf now only applying while you have the ult slotted.

I honestly think these devs are trying to kill this game as fast as possible. Either that or they are bringing race changes to the game and this is their *** way to soak more money out of this sinking ship.

Daveheart · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

eventually that is exactly what ZOS aims for? not "mindlessly" burst down the bosses but actually play their mechanics?

You have no idea of specific mechanics, so do Designers and developers because they don't play the related content at their limits like the best players do.

Just because 90% is casual ideal typical content that only requires basics you cannot ignore the other 5-10%.
Thats why developers must evaluate more carefully and situational to find a reasonable compromise.

ok so how much stamina reg do you actually have the common 6-800(race depending) wich resembles (as we have learned blocking cost 2.4k stamina) to one effective block gained every 16 sec? or are you one of the 1 in a million with actually 2-4k stamina reg while tanking? that are 4 additional blocks per minute and you are trying to tell me that you cant live without those 4 blocks...?

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

it is good as it stops duct tape tanks and make tanking more active.

A lot of people have been repeating this. I'm curious, in what way do you think no stam regen while blocking makes tanking more active?

This was a move designed to address a PVP issue that was actually a non issue as it was a build used by very few people anyway, simply stopping block casting would have been much more effective without going overboard. The problem is by attempting to stop a few people perma blocking in PVP they also butchered Tanks ability in PVE, ie the majority of Tanks in ESO.

the alternative was to deny 50+% of the dmg dealt by a blocker after blocking an attack within the last 2-4seconds. with the uproar of the DPS-tank faction telling us how busy they are while tanking you do believe that would be a better choice? hardly doubt so as all other of the trinity will jump in aswell as any efficency reduction by blocking would harm them alot more than a tank itself...

@Tankqull I think your regen estimates are a bit low, but even with 800 stam regen, that would have been 10 additional blocks per minute. (2.4k = 3 regen ticks @ 800 regen so 6 seconds for a full block. That's 10 per minutes with regen active)

Pompeyfluff wrote: »

so...24hrs in PTS whats the general feeling.

Please only answer if you have been testing the tank build and not just a generic "keep the change/stop the change"

Not as the tank myself, but we went through last night and cleared HRC and SO (though I lost all internet connection after we cleared the Mantikora). It's certainly added a level of difficulty. Blazing spear timing, healing springs w/master resto, and overuse of earthen heart abilities seemed to be key to maintaining stamina.

HRC was completed with only 8 players. The on a few attempts, the tank generally ran out of stamina completely before Ra Kotu died, but with a full group on mains, it wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. Stamina management did seem to be a slight issue on Yokeda Rok'dun, but not impossible. Overall stamina management on the giant pack of mobs before the warrior was bad. DPS had a difficult time managing to keep enough stamina to block the attacks of the mobs. As far as the warrior goes this isn't that bad (for normal at least). There are enough phases where the warrior is doing a shield throw, jumping, or breaking a statue, that you can safely release block for a while.

SO had a lot more constant drains on tank stamina during the Mantikora fight, but constant use of the master resto buffed healing springs was able to mitigate some of it. However, the days of the tank applying pierce armor as a debuff or slotting circle of protection seem to be over. As far as the rest of the trial went, I can't comment as I didn't see anything after my connection dropped.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Daveheart wrote: »

Not as the tank myself, but we went through last night and cleared HRC and SO (though I lost all internet connection after we cleared the Mantikora). It's certainly added a level of difficulty. Blazing spear timing, healing springs w/master resto, and overuse of earthen heart abilities seemed to be key to maintaining stamina.

HRC was completed with only 8 players. The on a few attempts, the tank generally ran out of stamina completely before Ra Kotu died, but with a full group on mains, it wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. Stamina management did seem to be a slight issue on Yokeda Rok'dun, but not impossible. Overall stamina management on the giant pack of mobs before the warrior was bad. DPS had a difficult time managing to keep enough stamina to block the attacks of the mobs. As far as the warrior goes this isn't that bad (for normal at least). There are enough phases where the warrior is doing a shield throw, jumping, or breaking a statue, that you can safely release block for a while.

SO had a lot more constant drains on tank stamina during the Mantikora fight, but constant use of the master resto buffed healing springs was able to mitigate some of it. However, the days of the tank applying pierce armor as a debuff or slotting circle of protection seem to be over. As far as the rest of the trial went, I can't comment as I didn't see anything after my connection dropped.

Thank you for the update. Good luck selling your warlock signet. I have one for trade if you get a buyer that needs 2

slumber_sandb16_ESO · July 2015

Ok so they're going to remove all stamina regen while blocking which will give us tanks a harder time. Where's the compensation for that though? Do we get anything in return?
How about a +100% damage increase while not blocking while having one handed and shield equipped, and only affecting one handed and shield skills, to compensate for 100% stamina regen reduction? More defense with blocking = little to no damage. Less defense when not blocking = more damage.

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

Apparently the 20+ pages of feedback about "0 stamina regen while blocking" can be ignored because:

- ZOS thinks that its absolutely impossible to provide a feedback about something before its on PTS (because its not like, any person with a brain, able to think logically, can tell that ubernerfing something to absolute 0 is never going to be good)
- they think that anyone who wasnt on PTS is not allowed to submit feedback,

Because of that in last ESO Live they stated that "we are getting positive feedback about 0 stamina regen while blocking so we will keep it untill we will update live game".

You can think that this makes no sense but there is a reason why they might "think" this change is good.

Right now PTS is dominated by PVP DPS classes just to check ganking and killing players. The most favourite class of ZOS.
Of course they will benefit the most of this "0 stamina regen while blocking" change. Why? Because all those classes want is to KILL EVERYTHING. Of course a tank, a class that IS SUPPOSED to be able to not die from one shot is annoying hell out of them.

What they do? While on mass on PTS they spam false /feedback just to give ZOS excuse to push trought this unjustified nerf and give ZOS excuse to keep it untill PTS changes will go live.

Thats why anyone who REALLY cares for future of ESO and PVE tanking should provide the real /feedback about "0 stamina regen while blocking"

Hope499 · August 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Man, PvP based changes that fundamentally alter PvE kill me.

I really hope they come up with some way to make tanking viable still...

That is why it sucks.

It is a PvP nerf, affecting the PvE side of things.