PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

DiabloHell

That regen has to go. Too many nightblades and tanks abusing it. That's like saying I should regen Magica at the same time I cast spells.

CN_Daniel

Just an FYI this did nothing for perma block. Get creative people :-) hint hint

Shunravi

DiabloHell wrote: »

That regen has to go. Too many nightblades and tanks abusing it. That's like saying I should regen Magica at the same time I cast spells.

But you do regen magica at the same time you cast spells....

Hope499

"DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense"

This is so damn true...

Instead of attacking, they block, that is the trade off. All classes CAN block, but tanks trade their DPS for it. To take away something from a class, ONLY because of SOME issues in PvP is just insane.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Hope499 wrote: »

"DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense"

This is so damn true...

Instead of attacking, they block, that is the trade off. All classes CAN block, but tanks trade their DPS for it. To take away something from a class, ONLY because of SOME issues in PvP is just insane.

this is largely why i wonder if simply putting a damage dealt reduction while blocking that relates to the damage blocked, may not be a bad idea. that way you can't DPS block, which is what i guess is the primary issue in PVP. tanks in PVE won't really care, because the aggro management is based on DPS and forced taunts, which i believe is being changed so you can essentially spam it (which im glad for if its true).

Nifty2g

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

"DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense"

This is so damn true...

Instead of attacking, they block, that is the trade off. All classes CAN block, but tanks trade their DPS for it. To take away something from a class, ONLY because of SOME issues in PvP is just insane.

this is largely why i wonder if simply putting a damage dealt reduction while blocking that relates to the damage blocked, may not be a bad idea. that way you can't DPS block, which is what i guess is the primary issue in PVP. tanks in PVE won't really care, because the aggro management is based on DPS and forced taunts, which i believe is being changed so you can essentially spam it (which im glad for if its true).

Nah dont do that you will ruin my dsa strat lol

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

"DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense"

This is so damn true...

Instead of attacking, they block, that is the trade off. All classes CAN block, but tanks trade their DPS for it. To take away something from a class, ONLY because of SOME issues in PvP is just insane.

this is largely why i wonder if simply putting a damage dealt reduction while blocking that relates to the damage blocked, may not be a bad idea. that way you can't DPS block, which is what i guess is the primary issue in PVP. tanks in PVE won't really care, because the aggro management is based on DPS and forced taunts, which i believe is being changed so you can essentially spam it (which im glad for if its true).

Nah dont do that you will ruin my dsa strat lol

do you prefer losing stam regen?

Nifty2g

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

"DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense"

This is so damn true...

Instead of attacking, they block, that is the trade off. All classes CAN block, but tanks trade their DPS for it. To take away something from a class, ONLY because of SOME issues in PvP is just insane.

this is largely why i wonder if simply putting a damage dealt reduction while blocking that relates to the damage blocked, may not be a bad idea. that way you can't DPS block, which is what i guess is the primary issue in PVP. tanks in PVE won't really care, because the aggro management is based on DPS and forced taunts, which i believe is being changed so you can essentially spam it (which im glad for if its true).

Nah dont do that you will ruin my dsa strat lol

do you prefer losing stam regen?

Easy way around it, I'm more concerned about this change for the casual players and such. I feel for them the ones who do casual runs for weeklies and such. It's going to ruin PvE player base and leave the 1%

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

"DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense"

This is so damn true...

Instead of attacking, they block, that is the trade off. All classes CAN block, but tanks trade their DPS for it. To take away something from a class, ONLY because of SOME issues in PvP is just insane.

this is largely why i wonder if simply putting a damage dealt reduction while blocking that relates to the damage blocked, may not be a bad idea. that way you can't DPS block, which is what i guess is the primary issue in PVP. tanks in PVE won't really care, because the aggro management is based on DPS and forced taunts, which i believe is being changed so you can essentially spam it (which im glad for if its true).

Nah dont do that you will ruin my dsa strat lol

do you prefer losing stam regen?

Easy way around it, I'm more concerned about this change for the casual players and such. I feel for them the ones who do casual runs for weeklies and such. It's going to ruin PvE player base and leave the 1%

i agree, with both your points. ill have to revise myself in general (again), but ill also even more revise my "hardcore raider" status with ESO, which atm is largely non-existent. quite frankly, i will have to look at my long term ESO playing career, and really see if i care to even continue playing. i like raiding and just playing and enjoying games, but with constant heavy mechanic changes, performance issues, and lackluster issue resolution, im losing my motivation to really play the game hard like i have with other MMOs.

Shunravi

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

"DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense"

This is so damn true...

Instead of attacking, they block, that is the trade off. All classes CAN block, but tanks trade their DPS for it. To take away something from a class, ONLY because of SOME issues in PvP is just insane.

this is largely why i wonder if simply putting a damage dealt reduction while blocking that relates to the damage blocked, may not be a bad idea. that way you can't DPS block, which is what i guess is the primary issue in PVP. tanks in PVE won't really care, because the aggro management is based on DPS and forced taunts, which i believe is being changed so you can essentially spam it (which im glad for if its true).

Nah dont do that you will ruin my dsa strat lol

do you prefer losing stam regen?

Easy way around it, I'm more concerned about this change for the casual players and such. I feel for them the ones who do casual runs for weeklies and such. It's going to ruin PvE player base and leave the 1%

Yup. Experienced players can handle this.... As for the rest, I always see complaints about a lack of tanks already. This won't improve that I don't think.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Shunravi wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

"DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense"

This is so damn true...

Instead of attacking, they block, that is the trade off. All classes CAN block, but tanks trade their DPS for it. To take away something from a class, ONLY because of SOME issues in PvP is just insane.

this is largely why i wonder if simply putting a damage dealt reduction while blocking that relates to the damage blocked, may not be a bad idea. that way you can't DPS block, which is what i guess is the primary issue in PVP. tanks in PVE won't really care, because the aggro management is based on DPS and forced taunts, which i believe is being changed so you can essentially spam it (which im glad for if its true).

Nah dont do that you will ruin my dsa strat lol

do you prefer losing stam regen?

Easy way around it, I'm more concerned about this change for the casual players and such. I feel for them the ones who do casual runs for weeklies and such. It's going to ruin PvE player base and leave the 1%

Yup. Experienced players can handle this.... As for the rest, I always see complaints about a lack of tanks already. This won't improve that I don't think.

there will always be a lack of healers/tanks in MMOs. you only need one of each per group, and some cases could require none. the issues i have always seen with major changes is the work that goes into conforming to them. this change could require a revisit to skills, attribute points, gear sets, and playstyle/methods of execution. what tends to happen is tanks, turn into DPS because they rarely change nearly as much, and tends to be much simpler to balance your character to.

the more and more i look at this post, the more it seems like the people behind the changes in ZoS, are trying to reinvent the MMO in odd ways.

amasuriel

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

"DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense"

This is so damn true...

Instead of attacking, they block, that is the trade off. All classes CAN block, but tanks trade their DPS for it. To take away something from a class, ONLY because of SOME issues in PvP is just insane.

this is largely why i wonder if simply putting a damage dealt reduction while blocking that relates to the damage blocked, may not be a bad idea. that way you can't DPS block, which is what i guess is the primary issue in PVP. tanks in PVE won't really care, because the aggro management is based on DPS and forced taunts, which i believe is being changed so you can essentially spam it (which im glad for if its true).

Nah dont do that you will ruin my dsa strat lol

do you prefer losing stam regen?

Easy way around it, I'm more concerned about this change for the casual players and such. I feel for them the ones who do casual runs for weeklies and such. It's going to ruin PvE player base and leave the 1%

I agree. Even if you buy the argument that this change will make tanking "less boring and more interactive", the vast majority of "tanks" you see when doing a pug of vet Banished Cells or Crypt of Hearts have a tremendously hard time staying alive with 4 wraiths on them, or 3 Daedroth.

I'm not saying these people cannot improve, but the reality is if people's experience in grouping is repeated wipes and frustration because the tank can't stay alive because they are not great, or are pretty good but the healer and or DPS suck and they cannot solo these situations indefinitely, they will just stop trying to tank.

Already its harder to find tanks than any other roll, this will make it worse.

Like it or not, if you design everything with only the person who can solo round 10 vDSA in mind, many other people will get frustrated and leave. You need a gradual, sliding scale of difficulty.

The same is true for PvP btw, the number of people I know (I don't hang out with a lot of hardcore PvPers) that tried PvP for a few hours, got insta-gibbed 20 times in 30 minutes (spent the rest riding) and will never go back to PvP again is substantial. Its not worth the time and effort required to get good enough for it to be fun.

So as people are fond of pointing out in these discussions, this is an MMO. If you want to see a healthy game with a high pop, or PvP with more than the same 50 people over and over, you need to put the general difficulty at something that doesn't require hundreds of hours of mastery, and make the difficulty scale as smoothly as possible after that or people will never advance to the harder content.

Wing

DiabloHell wrote: »

That regen has to go. Too many nightblades and tanks abusing it. That's like saying I should regen Magica at the same time I cast spells.

lulz

Personofsecrets

Even when experienced players can perform with the nerf, the game still isn't better off with the nerf.

Players can adapt, so what? At what cost?

Wing

Personofsecrets wrote: »

At what cost?

enjoyment obviously.

Enodoc

Wing wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

At what cost?

enjoyment obviously.

One person's enjoyment is another person's boredom. IMO doing sod-all but holding block for eternity is not enjoyable.

GhostShadows

Enodoc wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

At what cost?

enjoyment obviously.

One person's enjoyment is another person's boredom. IMO doing sod-all but holding block for eternity is not enjoyable.

"One person's enjoyment is another person's boredom."

i like block and u dont, i dont force u to play using block, but u want remove block from game just because u dont like use it!!
i can see the democracy in ur ambassador post very well!!!

J2JMC

I'm glad you guys care about us laymen. I mean, if this change made the game easier, you'd be raging about how filthy casuals and B2P ruin mmos. However, now that the change seems to makes the game harder in a way you don't like, it's time to make sure the game is accessible to anyone who wants to play. Give me a break. You're no better than George Lucas threatening his neighbors with affordable housing.

I'm indifferent to this change because I haven't been able to do pledges my level since my friends are a few levels below me so the content isn't too bad. However, don't pretend you care about players that aren't on the same level as you in order to get your points across. You don't like the change because you believe it's pvp-based? Fine. You don't like the change because you believe ZOS is not targeting the right issues in regards to the problem of burning through dungeons while ignoring mechanics? Makes sense. Just please don't sit there and cry "But think about the children!"

HowlingMoney515

I personally think in PVE stamina regeneration should stay buy it PVP it needs to be gone. In PVP someone with 28k stamina and 2k+ stamina recovery all they have to do is block you till you eventually run out of resource.

Shunravi

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm glad you guys care about us laymen. I mean, if this change made the game easier, you'd be raging about how filthy casuals and B2P ruin mmos. However, now that the change seems to makes the game harder in a way you don't like, it's time to make sure the game is accessible to anyone who wants to play. Give me a break. You're no better than George Lucas threatening his neighbors with affordable housing.

I'm indifferent to this change because I haven't been able to do pledges my level since my friends are a few levels below me so the content isn't too bad. However, don't pretend you care about players that aren't on the same level as you in order to get your points across. You don't like the change because you believe it's pvp-based? Fine. You don't like the change because you believe ZOS is not targeting the right issues in regards to the problem of burning through dungeons while ignoring mechanics? Makes sense. Just please don't sit there and cry "But think about the children!"

Those poor children....

ViotexZippy

So all the damage dealers that have perfected their builds to kill things in a few hits but one build that is already unpopular and rarer that also can do barely any damage is being nerfed..............GENIUS

leepalmer95

HowlingMoney515 wrote: »

I personally think in PVE stamina regeneration should stay buy it PVP it needs to be gone. In PVP someone with 28k stamina and 2k+ stamina recovery all they have to do is block you till you eventually run out of resource.

and how much damage do they do? to use stamina attack they'll have to let go of block.

Perma-blockers aren't hard to deal with in pvp, just people need to stop crying and learn how to deal with them. CC them, don't waste resources if you know your not doing anything, just wear down their stamina.

Any nb can just fear them and since zos loves nb's and are making them even more annoyingly Op than they are 75% of the player base in IC will be nb's, try go into a non -vet campaign there everywhere.

Leandor

leepalmer95 wrote: »

HowlingMoney515 wrote: »

I personally think in PVE stamina regeneration should stay buy it PVP it needs to be gone. In PVP someone with 28k stamina and 2k+ stamina recovery all they have to do is block you till you eventually run out of resource.

and how much damage do they do? to use stamina attack they'll have to let go of block.

Perma-blockers aren't hard to deal with in pvp, just people need to stop crying and learn how to deal with them. CC them, don't waste resources if you know your not doing anything, just wear down their stamina.

Any nb can just fear them and since zos loves nb's and are making them even more annoyingly Op than they are 75% of the player base in IC will be nb's, try go into a non -vet campaign there everywhere.

You're right. The person described in the initial post does not matter.

I'll give you an example on why it does matter. Consider a magicka DK with let's say 25k magicka, 12k stamina, and 2k spelldamage, boasting 2k stamina regen. He is set up with 1H&S and heavy armor. He has one damaging ability on his bar: Flame lash.

This guy stands there in block, reducing every attack by 85%, never runs out of stamina, and is able to dish out lashes that crit up to 9k or even 10k, go through dodge and have 8+ m range. Plus, he gets free healing from the flame lash proc. He'll reflect the majority of ranged attacks and the only way to remove him is a concentrated Xv1 with unreflectable damage or fear.

Leave him uncontrolled and he's going to wreck your healers. Occupy him and his friends are going to wreck your team. I would be completely fine with perma blocking tanks, as long as they would really deal pathetic damage as claimed so often. The issue is not perma-blocking. The issue is that perma blocking is possible while still dealing damage.

Block-Casting, as rightly said by others, is a mechanic that is even more essential for PvE than stamina regen while blocking, because it does not only concern tanks, but healers and damage dealers as well. So what other option is there?

I understand very well the concerns shown by those that tank. I can appreciate that it feels very unfair to bear the brunt of this change alone. But honestly speaking, I don't think there is another option in there, that could be implemented instead.

Avenias

ViotexZippy wrote: »

So all the damage dealers that have perfected their builds to kill things in a few hits but one build that is already unpopular and rarer that also can do barely any damage is being nerfed..............GENIUS

Its cos the devs play dps and cant give 2 *** about what a tank think. When they go around looking for builds with a nerf hammer, they will look at possible builds that can actually beat theirs in pvp. If it does, they will unleash hell on it and nerf it to the ground. My guess is that one of the devs got his ass kicked by someone blocking his attacks, and so he wants to reduce block time.

Arato

Azalin76 wrote: »

Can't tanks just use a stamina potion to get back stamina?

Most tanks already use Tripots, whenever one of their resources is out and they need it. Stam low and need to block a big hit? Tripot. Magicka low and need to cast a shield, undaunted taunt, or armor buff? Tripot. Just took a big hit and afraid your healer won't get you back up before the next? Tripot. We're almost using them off cooldown because of the regen buff they give too.

Timeetyo

Leandor wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

HowlingMoney515 wrote: »

I personally think in PVE stamina regeneration should stay buy it PVP it needs to be gone. In PVP someone with 28k stamina and 2k+ stamina recovery all they have to do is block you till you eventually run out of resource.

and how much damage do they do? to use stamina attack they'll have to let go of block.

Perma-blockers aren't hard to deal with in pvp, just people need to stop crying and learn how to deal with them. CC them, don't waste resources if you know your not doing anything, just wear down their stamina.

Any nb can just fear them and since zos loves nb's and are making them even more annoyingly Op than they are 75% of the player base in IC will be nb's, try go into a non -vet campaign there everywhere.

You're right. The person described in the initial post does not matter.

I'll give you an example on why it does matter. Consider a magicka DK with let's say 25k magicka, 12k stamina, and 2k spelldamage, boasting 2k stamina regen. He is set up with 1H&S and heavy armor. He has one damaging ability on his bar: Flame lash.

This guy stands there in block, reducing every attack by 85%, never runs out of stamina, and is able to dish out lashes that crit up to 9k or even 10k, go through dodge and have 8+ m range. Plus, he gets free healing from the flame lash proc. He'll reflect the majority of ranged attacks and the only way to remove him is a concentrated Xv1 with unreflectable damage or fear.

Leave him uncontrolled and he's going to wreck your healers. Occupy him and his friends are going to wreck your team. I would be completely fine with perma blocking tanks, as long as they would really deal pathetic damage as claimed so often. The issue is not perma-blocking. The issue is that perma blocking is possible while still dealing damage.

Block-Casting, as rightly said by others, is a mechanic that is even more essential for PvE than stamina regen while blocking, because it does not only concern tanks, but healers and damage dealers as well. So what other option is there?

I understand very well the concerns shown by those that tank. I can appreciate that it feels very unfair to bear the brunt of this change alone. But honestly speaking, I don't think there is another option in there, that could be implemented instead.

Except...I doubt those stats are even possible in plate. Maybe with a 1000 CPs....but....yeah.

GhostShadows

Leandor wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

HowlingMoney515 wrote: »

I personally think in PVE stamina regeneration should stay buy it PVP it needs to be gone. In PVP someone with 28k stamina and 2k+ stamina recovery all they have to do is block you till you eventually run out of resource.

and how much damage do they do? to use stamina attack they'll have to let go of block.

Perma-blockers aren't hard to deal with in pvp, just people need to stop crying and learn how to deal with them. CC them, don't waste resources if you know your not doing anything, just wear down their stamina.

Any nb can just fear them and since zos loves nb's and are making them even more annoyingly Op than they are 75% of the player base in IC will be nb's, try go into a non -vet campaign there everywhere.

You're right. The person described in the initial post does not matter.

I'll give you an example on why it does matter. Consider a magicka DK with let's say 25k magicka, 12k stamina, and 2k spelldamage, boasting 2k stamina regen. He is set up with 1H&S and heavy armor. He has one damaging ability on his bar: Flame lash.

This guy stands there in block, reducing every attack by 85%, never runs out of stamina, and is able to dish out lashes that crit up to 9k or even 10k, go through dodge and have 8+ m range. Plus, he gets free healing from the flame lash proc. He'll reflect the majority of ranged attacks and the only way to remove him is a concentrated Xv1 with unreflectable damage or fear.

Leave him uncontrolled and he's going to wreck your healers. Occupy him and his friends are going to wreck your team. I would be completely fine with perma blocking tanks, as long as they would really deal pathetic damage as claimed so often. The issue is not perma-blocking. The issue is that perma blocking is possible while still dealing damage.

Block-Casting, as rightly said by others, is a mechanic that is even more essential for PvE than stamina regen while blocking, because it does not only concern tanks, but healers and damage dealers as well. So what other option is there?

I understand very well the concerns shown by those that tank. I can appreciate that it feels very unfair to bear the brunt of this change alone. But honestly speaking, I don't think there is another option in there, that could be implemented instead.

i like ur posts, and i agree with u here in this 1 again.
u described very well my char till few mouths ago wen i stop pvp because the bugs and lag.
1st thing i noticed wen i start doing pve was that my seducer set dont fit in sume content, i needed rebuild all my char to be able to tank in pve.
changed gears sets, chanced cps and changed stat points.
at moment i cant kill no1 in pvp, lost almost all damage and magicka regen, and aparently from now on also stamina regen!!!
i was trying my pve build in pts and betwen crashes i was able to notice that i dont get much damage from players because the reduce on damage but also cant do any damage.
most of my 1vs1 in pts end with me going one side and enemy going other bouth not happy, cause after spent time and potions none of us got reward.
so far i can just say that 1 player build to tank pve will not have any fun on pvp unless run with a dps friend on poket.

Leandor

Thanks mate.

Sensesfail13

Leandor wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

HowlingMoney515 wrote: »

I personally think in PVE stamina regeneration should stay buy it PVP it needs to be gone. In PVP someone with 28k stamina and 2k+ stamina recovery all they have to do is block you till you eventually run out of resource.

and how much damage do they do? to use stamina attack they'll have to let go of block.

Perma-blockers aren't hard to deal with in pvp, just people need to stop crying and learn how to deal with them. CC them, don't waste resources if you know your not doing anything, just wear down their stamina.

Any nb can just fear them and since zos loves nb's and are making them even more annoyingly Op than they are 75% of the player base in IC will be nb's, try go into a non -vet campaign there everywhere.

You're right. The person described in the initial post does not matter.

I'll give you an example on why it does matter. Consider a magicka DK with let's say 25k magicka, 12k stamina, and 2k spelldamage, boasting 2k stamina regen. He is set up with 1H&S and heavy armor. He has one damaging ability on his bar: Flame lash.

This guy stands there in block, reducing every attack by 85%, never runs out of stamina, and is able to dish out lashes that crit up to 9k or even 10k, go through dodge and have 8+ m range. Plus, he gets free healing from the flame lash proc. He'll reflect the majority of ranged attacks and the only way to remove him is a concentrated Xv1 with unreflectable damage or fear.

Leave him uncontrolled and he's going to wreck your healers. Occupy him and his friends are going to wreck your team. I would be completely fine with perma blocking tanks, as long as they would really deal pathetic damage as claimed so often. The issue is not perma-blocking. The issue is that perma blocking is possible while still dealing damage.

Block-Casting, as rightly said by others, is a mechanic that is even more essential for PvE than stamina regen while blocking, because it does not only concern tanks, but healers and damage dealers as well. So what other option is there?

I understand very well the concerns shown by those that tank. I can appreciate that it feels very unfair to bear the brunt of this change alone. But honestly speaking, I don't think there is another option in there, that could be implemented instead.

Id like to see you implement this build exactly as you said because I sure as hell cant and Im a very good DK tank. PVE and PVP. Thanks for your speculation though.

Personofsecrets

Enodoc wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

At what cost?

enjoyment obviously.

One person's enjoyment is another person's boredom. IMO doing sod-all but holding block for eternity is not enjoyable.

You do realize people aren't just holding block right?

Go ahead and check out my guide on AA and VDSA tanking. You can see some of the things that I do when I am bored just holding block

@Enodoc they are right there in my signature and will blow your socks off.