PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

Murmeltier

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Let me ask you something @Attorneyatlawl do you honestly think this change is good for the game? PvE only.

Read what I wrote a second ago... we cross-posted . Without a doubt.

Doing trials at a high tier level you already are aware of how strapped many of our templars are when doing this, and it's just going to get worse.


These changes aren't just hitting tanks either, they're severely reworking how many DPS validate things like animation canceling, which is a pillar of a good player. As I said before, your templar healers are going to be more strapped by being forced to spend even more time and resources towards keeping their group at healthy levels of stamina, large sources of power are going to have to be rerouted into resource management instead of utility or damage, and overall the game will slow down. .

This hits the Point. As one of the best Templar Healers on the EU Server (if not the best) i can only say that this 0 Stamina Regeneration with Block is some of the worsest Ideas i have ever seen in this Game.

As a Templar Healer your Focus is to manage your Magicka Rescources, so you can burst in bad Situations a long Time. You need a very good balanced Set and Feeling for your Rescources.

If the Tank gets more Damage without Blocking, i have to cast more often. If i cast more often, i lose more Mana and Time to recover Magicka. If i cant reg my Mana, the Raid wipes, easy it is.

In Addition, i read often that Templar have to support the Stamina Regeneration from the Tanks, with throwing Shards and other Skills. What you are drinking?

I have to cast more often, i cant recover my Magicka so often and in Addition i have to support the Tank with Stamina Skills, because he needs them more then before, and erease my Magicka Reg-Skill-Slots for that? Do the Math, it is simple a really bad Idea. I have only 5 Skill-Slots, i want to play my Class as a Healer and not as an Energiedrink for Tanks and DPs.

At Live-Server the Tank can tank alone and dont need the Shards really. He dont needs a Templar Babysitter for Stamina Regeneration.

This Change is a very bad Idea for every Healer and Tank, the only Reason you do this is the PvP. Tanking isnt boring, the most Tanks do Damage or Support the Groups with Heals and Shields ,or manage their Rescources. Now they can only manage their Stamina Resources, thats a really boring Thing.

And my Experience in PvP and PvE on PTS (Veteran Prison) was horrible. The Tank was a Pro and yells *Spear Spear* gets massive Damage because he couldnt Block. My NB in PvP with trained Shield and CP Points in it, was faster out of Stamina then i could say " This is a bad Idea".

We dont need to talk about healing Experiences, the Healers will suffer from this. Thats 100% sure. The only right Thing you can do, is to forget this new Stamina & Blocking Rule, forever. Do the right Thing, stop this PvP borned Idea. And listen to the right People, i think there are many PvPers who like to gank fast and want to see not so many Blocks anymore.

Kavatchian

The whole point of a shield is to block attacks. If someone wants to "hide" behind a shield let them. The person who's attacking should find a different approach.

Silly how your going to make changes to something that is doing what its suppose to.

hydrocynus

wow - I cant believe you guys are still at it - i havent read since about page 18 so excuse me if i cover stuff you already discussed.

Here is an interesting thing to me (and i say this without going onto PTS and trying it to be honest so i stand to be corrected):
1) Zero Stamina while blocking
2) Black Rose Set - 20% chance to return Stamina when attacked while blocking

So this is the way out for tanks? It is if you are being attacked by a multiple enemies that make this set proc regularly. If you have 5 opponents attacking you, you should get a stamina boost from one of those opponents for every round of attacks that they do. Unfortunately, it is useless against Single opponents like bosses, as it will proc much less.

So who benefits? Yep - The same block casters that run into a pvp zerg with their shield up - they can stand there all day if there are enough opponents hitting them.

So who suffers? Yep - the poor sod going one on one with Mantikora trying to see the difference between friendly and hostile spear shards.

I am up for the challenge of this new Tanking nerf, but i honestly think they have not gotten rid of the block casters with that set if it works as it says it works. It will only be a change to the PVE tanks.

Rinmaethodain

hydrocynus wrote: »

wow - I cant believe you guys are still at it - i havent read since about page 18 so excuse me if i cover stuff you already discussed.

Here is an interesting thing to me (and i say this without going onto PTS and trying it to be honest so i stand to be corrected):
1) Zero Stamina while blocking
2) Black Rose Set - 20% chance to return Stamina when attacked while blocking

So this is the way out for tanks? It is if you are being attacked by a multiple enemies that make this set proc regularly. If you have 5 opponents attacking you, you should get a stamina boost from one of those opponents for every round of attacks that they do. Unfortunately, it is useless against Single opponents like bosses, as it will proc much less.

So who benefits? Yep - The same block casters that run into a pvp serg with their shield up - they can stand there all day if there are enough opponents hitting them.

So who suffers? Yep - the poor sod going one on one with Mantikora trying to see the difference between friendly and hostile spear shards.

I am up for the challenge of this new Tanking nerf, but i honestly think they have not gotten rid of the block casters with that set if it works as it says it works. It will only be a change to the PVE tanks.

Black Rose set is not a solution. Its an excuse and slap to face of PVE tanks. Just because of unjustified nerf to stamina regen now tanks have to sacrifice a whole set to wear this "black joke" set?

Have some lecture http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2107356/#Comment_2107356

hydrocynus

Yeah thats what i said - only PVE tanks suffer.

amgame308_ESO

Went into White Tower, no shards no dragon blood. Made it through with about 280 champ points an above average footman and histbark sets, not all gold. V14 DK tank. First run through.

Had zero issue with stamina.

Chicken little thread, the sky isn't falling.

Hope499

Murmeltier wrote: »

As one of the best Templar Healers on the EU Server (if not the best) i can only say that this 0 Stamina Regeneration with Block is some of the worsest Ideas i have ever seen in this Game.
.

Where does it tell you who is the best?

Artheiron

0 regen is quite harsh. but what I understand with these changes is they don't want stam tanks, they want meat shields, 62 points on health. yay for more min/maxing

Murmeltier

Hope499 wrote: »

Murmeltier wrote: »

As one of the best Templar Healers on the EU Server (if not the best) i can only say that this 0 Stamina Regeneration with Block is some of the worsest Ideas i have ever seen in this Game.
.

Where does it tell you who is the best?

My Experience and my Ego tell me this. But you are right, no Carebear Leaderboard Pointsystem does this. Only a Year selftesting own Builds, all Sets and Mechanics. I didnt see many Healers who reach this Level, they are rare.

So i can say, one of the best (EU). It is no Offense, but why i should hide this.

Personofsecrets

amgame308_ESO wrote: »

Went into White Tower, no shards no dragon blood. Made it through with about 280 champ points an above average footman and histbark sets, not all gold. V14 DK tank. First run through.

Had zero issue with stamina.

Chicken little thread, the sky isn't falling.

How did you fight Planar Inhibitor?

Dreddnawt

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

Rinmaethodain

Dreddnawt wrote: »

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

one week after final 1.7 update, patch notes:

"Group UI have been updated, removed tank icon. Now groups will consist of healers and DPSes only"

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

Dreddnawt wrote: »

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Dreddnawt wrote: »

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

one week after final 1.7 update, patch notes:

"Group UI have been updated, removed tank icon. Now groups will consist of healers and DPSes only"

You're both high right? You won't be able to complete most end game content without a competent tank, just like it is now. Sure SOME content can be done rather chaotically by kiting, but you WILL need a good tank come 1.7.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Dreddnawt wrote: »

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Dreddnawt wrote: »

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

one week after final 1.7 update, patch notes:

"Group UI have been updated, removed tank icon. Now groups will consist of healers and DPSes only"

You're both high right? You won't be able to complete most end game content without a competent tank, just like it is now. Sure SOME content can be done rather chaotically by kiting, but you WILL need a good tank come 1.7.

or the tank would have a DPS/tank skill line AND a pure tank skill line. which a tank should probably already have....

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Dreddnawt wrote: »

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Dreddnawt wrote: »

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

one week after final 1.7 update, patch notes:

"Group UI have been updated, removed tank icon. Now groups will consist of healers and DPSes only"

You're both high right? You won't be able to complete most end game content without a competent tank, just like it is now. Sure SOME content can be done rather chaotically by kiting, but you WILL need a good tank come 1.7.

or the tank would have a DPS/tank skill line AND a pure tank skill line. which a tank should probably already have....

There's nothing wrong with having a little dps slotted for easy trash and bosses that you don't really need to block anyway (Rillis, Bogdan, Mephala, Winterborne) But there really should be a necessity to run a full survival build for some content and actively utilize ALL of it.

dodgehopper_ESO

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

The pvp players posting in this pve thread clearly just want to nerf the living crap out of tanks because they have trouble killing them in pvp with their burst damage builds.

The fact is right now Good tanks do run low on stamina and magicka. They are constantly doing stuff. A tank not being able to regen stamina while blocking is the same as a dps not being able to regen stamina or magicka while attacking.

The only tanks that dont have to constantly watch their stamina and magicka pools are the bad tanks that do do nothing but taunt and block. And perhaps maybe a NB tank running siphoning attacks and caltrops or very high champ rank tanks.

If you are not running low on resources as a tank you are not doing enough. This change will do nothing but make tanks weaker make some builds obsolete and unplayable and make every tank focus on nothing but taunting and blocking and stam management. You will need tons of block cost reduction and will have way less stamina/magicka for doing other stuff. Taunting debuffing heals shields attacks will all be reduced a ton.

All this for one reason and one reason alone. DPS players are pissed that tanks the defensive role in the game... are hard to kill. Of course they are hard to kill thats their job! Tanks give up lots of damage in trade for this defense now because pvp players cry about it tanks give up lots of damage in trade for very little defense. We know where the mindset of the devs are with this they clearly play dps. This is why the hard caps were removed for everything except defense. You can do absurd insane amounts of damage but you cant have absurd insane amounts of defense. And now that defense is being nerfed. In pvp high defense tank builds are already almost useless. The dps builds in heavy armor with a shield are good but thats not a tank. They should make the cost of blocking scale with your base health stat. So tank builds with twice as much health as stam or magicka would be able to block much much easier then those dps builds using shields and heavy armor. Then make blocking attacks from players cost twice as much. Problem solved without hurting true tank builds.

I like this idea.

Timeetyo

I am a tank for PvE - love the role - and love how it plays in ESO (currently). With this change I will be LESS active overall and doing LESS for the group (shields, debuffs, buffs, etc) just so I can focus on my stam management. This will make tanking more boring and engaging overall. Great. Also - to those that say the black rose set is the fix - that is a bandaid at best that will FORCE us to ALL use 1 set to bypass this stupid mechanic. Great - more cookie cutter gear loadouts.....Lets see - footman because its the only tank set with jewelry and then black rose to keep stam....that leaves a TON of choices.....NOT.

There are so many solutions to this that work to fix the issue in PvP (perma block casting DPS) with drastically altering the PvE landscape. Some of my favorites:

1 - Leave it as is on PTS except add a 5/5 heavy passive that allows full stam regen while blocking. This way true tanks can block away and leaves PvE intact....and for PvP - anyone in 5 plate is already giving up a TON of DPS for that survivability.

2 - Make this PvP zone only. Again this leave PvE tanks alone except for the new bosses in IC - but those can be dealt with via other strats. Leaves the nerf in place for all PvP.

3 - Revert the nerf, but up the block cost vs player abilities. This leaves PvE intact and forces those that want to be PvP "tanks" to spend CP/gear/etc into block cost reduction to remain tanky

I think any of the 3 above would work (#1 is best IMO) and would suit the goal of stopping the perma block casting folks in PvP. Each would definately be better for PvE tanks and keep them fun and viable.

bennett.zuritaub17_ESO

my opinion is that people want change I for one want the same I am talking about all the *** they will add once the dlc drops.[img][/img]

Elijah_Crow

Timeetyo wrote: »

I am a tank for PvE - love the role - and love how it plays in ESO (currently). With this change I will be LESS active overall and doing LESS for the group (shields, debuffs, buffs, etc) just so I can focus on my stam management. This will make tanking more boring and engaging overall. Great. Also - to those that say the black rose set is the fix - that is a bandaid at best that will FORCE us to ALL use 1 set to bypass this stupid mechanic. Great - more cookie cutter gear loadouts.....Lets see - footman because its the only tank set with jewelry and then black rose to keep stam....that leaves a TON of choices.....NOT.

There are so many solutions to this that work to fix the issue in PvP (perma block casting DPS) with drastically altering the PvE landscape. Some of my favorites:

1 - Leave it as is on PTS except add a 5/5 heavy passive that allows full stam regen while blocking. This way true tanks can block away and leaves PvE intact....and for PvP - anyone in 5 plate is already giving up a TON of DPS for that survivability.

2 - Make this PvP zone only. Again this leave PvE tanks alone except for the new bosses in IC - but those can be dealt with via other strats. Leaves the nerf in place for all PvP.

3 - Revert the nerf, but up the block cost vs player abilities. This leaves PvE intact and forces those that want to be PvP "tanks" to spend CP/gear/etc into block cost reduction to remain tanky

I think any of the 3 above would work (#1 is best IMO) and would suit the goal of stopping the perma block casting folks in PvP. Each would definately be better for PvE tanks and keep them fun and viable.

I've tested my character and a V16 template character. Tanking is no longer fun. This is a horrible change.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Dreddnawt wrote: »

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Dreddnawt wrote: »

PvE tanking is a thing of the past. Get over it, Tanks are dead, that class has been removed from the game per the will of the devs.

Come to the wide open world of TESO where any class and race can be any role so you can be ANYTHING you want to be!! Except a Tank, you cant be a Tank!!

one week after final 1.7 update, patch notes:

"Group UI have been updated, removed tank icon. Now groups will consist of healers and DPSes only"

You're both high right? You won't be able to complete most end game content without a competent tank, just like it is now. Sure SOME content can be done rather chaotically by kiting, but you WILL need a good tank come 1.7.

or the tank would have a DPS/tank skill line AND a pure tank skill line. which a tank should probably already have....

There's nothing wrong with having a little dps slotted for easy trash and bosses that you don't really need to block anyway (Rillis, Bogdan, Mephala, Winterborne) But there really should be a necessity to run a full survival build for some content and actively utilize ALL of it.

sorry my statement was poorly written, i agree. i have a S&B and 2h skill bar while tanking atm for that very reason. been thinking of trying something along the lines of single and aoe S&B but havent gotten around to it.

Supernovas

#1. Block only when needed, this spam block is weaksauce, change ur tactics like the rest of us.
#2. Get a templar healer we do crazy heals
#3. Kick out that ugly sorc who is really dpsing and throwing off heals
#4. Try out new gear combos and new skills.
And WALLA (waves my wand) Welcome to a fresh innovative approach to pve and pvp.


Being a templar healer I am accustomed to a challenge, and laugh when other classes have to do the same.

Drake_Fury

This is the biggest exemple of how you can't balance classes for both PvE and PvP at the same time.

As soon as you "fix" one, you "break" the other.

The only good solution I've seen to this is how FFXIV did it: PvE and PvP skills are completely seperated. The balance for PvE and PvP are 2 different things. Fighting in PvP is different than fighting in PvE, because you don't have access to all skills.

The way it is now, there is 2 PvP skill lines. I would expand on this. Make itso PvP skills are not usable in PvE, and PvE skills are not usable in PvP. Make it so all the skill points you get in PvP can't be used for anything else than PvP skills. Make 3 skill lines per classes exclusively for PvP. Change the cyrodiil skyshards so they only work with PvP skills. Do the same things with weapons, one line for PvE, one line for PvP.

Both need to be seperated completely so that you can have balance everywhere. Make it so in PvP, you can't regen stamina while blocking, but differently in PvE.

Every time anyone tries to change classes to balance PvP, it has negative effects on PvE, and the same is true the other way around.

sagitter

So who has tested pts , is it too hard blocking only when needed like dark soul or it is impossible? If it is possible, more difficult should be more challenge, and more fun for all group no? I d like to listen only opinions about who tested it.

Zanfire

This seems just an "easy way" decision.

Changing such a core mechanics to improve someone's PvP experience and almost destorying someone's other PvE one at the same time demostrate how this is a wrong solution, picked up without deep reasoning and caution.

Pity tanks will suffer for this badly thought choice.

Tanks: A role few adopt because of the responsability it involves respect to DPSers. And still we get our ass kicked by developers, too.

Lava_Croft

I know little about tanking, but I have yet to speak to any non-scrub tank that thinks the changes to Stamina regeneration while blocking will have any kind of meaningful impact.

AudioVortex

Well there goes my stam build DK out the window...

Saying that... There goes my tank DK out the window...

On a more insightful note it's an interesting read and with this scale of feedback, I really hope Zos are listening and maybe could implement the changes they are sent on, but in a slightly different way, with a slightly different effect (if they truly are set on it).

Wing

FYI ZoS, this change was bad and you should feel bad.

who would have thought the day would come when stamina regen was a dump stat on tanks, HA!

Timeetyo

Supernovas wrote: »

#1. Block only when needed, this spam block is weaksauce, change ur tactics like the rest of us.
#2. Get a templar healer we do crazy heals
#3. Kick out that ugly sorc who is really dpsing and throwing off heals
#4. Try out new gear combos and new skills.
And WALLA (waves my wand) Welcome to a fresh innovative approach to pve and pvp.


Being a templar healer I am accustomed to a challenge, and laugh when other classes have to do the same.

#1 - Please try tanking some of the harder content. This only block when needed plan works fine when you are only tanking 1-2 mobs....but more often than not in difficult content I have MORE than that taunted and the true problem comes in the number of mobs with heavy attacks (uppercut, etc.) which MUST be blocked. If I am in a pull with 3 mobs with uppercut, I HAVE to block each as if I miss one its a knockdown and huge damage. With all of the particle affects going off it is often very hard to see the tell for each of these 3 at the same time....and then you miss one and are dead.

#2 - one bad design decision forcing another bad design decision further down our throats. Yeah....great. Yes, I do have a templar healer friend for our static group, so I'll be ok in that regard but it is poor design that this change is going to further differentiate between a templar healer and any other class healer.

#3 - Uh, what? Who does this?

#4 - I have no issue with a shift in meta forcing a change in gear, build, and strats. I do take issue when this change (while truly PvP based) is sold as "to make tanking more fun" when it is only limiting options and taking away our options and engagement.



ALSO - you likely haven't read the thread on how this was actually implemented. If I am tanking away without block and just TAP that block for one attack (say 1/2 second) I don't just lose 1/2 second of regen. Regen ticks every 3 seconds. Hitting block RESETS the tick timer when you release it. This means that at BEST, just before I hit block I had received a tick so you do only lose the 1/2 second....but this is rare. At worst - I hit block at 2.9s, hold it for 1/2 sec, then have to wait 3 full seconds for the next tick. As a tank - how long do you have 3 full seconds in between attacks that require blocking? Pretty much NEVER if it is remotely challenging content. RIP any stamina regen.

Supernovas

Timeetyo wrote: »

Supernovas wrote: »

#1. Block only when needed, this spam block is weaksauce, change ur tactics like the rest of us.
#2. Get a templar healer we do crazy heals
#3. Kick out that ugly sorc who is really dpsing and throwing off heals
#4. Try out new gear combos and new skills.
And WALLA (waves my wand) Welcome to a fresh innovative approach to pve and pvp.


Being a templar healer I am accustomed to a challenge, and laugh when other classes have to do the same.

#1 - Please try tanking some of the harder content. This only block when needed plan works fine when you are only tanking 1-2 mobs....but more often than not in difficult content I have MORE than that taunted and the true problem comes in the number of mobs with heavy attacks (uppercut, etc.) which MUST be blocked. If I am in a pull with 3 mobs with uppercut, I HAVE to block each as if I miss one its a knockdown and huge damage. With all of the particle affects going off it is often very hard to see the tell for each of these 3 at the same time....and then you miss one and are dead.

#2 - one bad design decision forcing another bad design decision further down our throats. Yeah....great. Yes, I do have a templar healer friend for our static group, so I'll be ok in that regard but it is poor design that this change is going to further differentiate between a templar healer and any other class healer.

#3 - Uh, what? Who does this?

#4 - I have no issue with a shift in meta forcing a change in gear, build, and strats. I do take issue when this change (while truly PvP based) is sold as "to make tanking more fun" when it is only limiting options and taking away our options and engagement.



ALSO - you likely haven't read the thread on how this was actually implemented. If I am tanking away without block and just TAP that block for one attack (say 1/2 second) I don't just lose 1/2 second of regen. Regen ticks every 3 seconds. Hitting block RESETS the tick timer when you release it. This means that at BEST, just before I hit block I had received a tick so you do only lose the 1/2 second....but this is rare. At worst - I hit block at 2.9s, hold it for 1/2 sec, then have to wait 3 full seconds for the next tick. As a tank - how long do you have 3 full seconds in between attacks that require blocking? Pretty much NEVER if it is remotely challenging content. RIP any stamina regen.

Do you think that zos just doesn't want tanking anymore? I guess that was my point, and i mean no disrespect at all, i am equal frustrated on different matters. And i do agree that what happens in pvp should stay in pvp. I don't know why they don't separate the two. Which makes me think they want something different ( i do have a dk tank btw) from tanks. Or is it just poor design.....

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Timeetyo wrote: »

Supernovas wrote: »

#1. Block only when needed, this spam block is weaksauce, change ur tactics like the rest of us.
#2. Get a templar healer we do crazy heals
#3. Kick out that ugly sorc who is really dpsing and throwing off heals
#4. Try out new gear combos and new skills.
And WALLA (waves my wand) Welcome to a fresh innovative approach to pve and pvp.


Being a templar healer I am accustomed to a challenge, and laugh when other classes have to do the same.

#1 - Please try tanking some of the harder content. This only block when needed plan works fine when you are only tanking 1-2 mobs....but more often than not in difficult content I have MORE than that taunted and the true problem comes in the number of mobs with heavy attacks (uppercut, etc.) which MUST be blocked. If I am in a pull with 3 mobs with uppercut, I HAVE to block each as if I miss one its a knockdown and huge damage. With all of the particle affects going off it is often very hard to see the tell for each of these 3 at the same time....and then you miss one and are dead.

#2 - one bad design decision forcing another bad design decision further down our throats. Yeah....great. Yes, I do have a templar healer friend for our static group, so I'll be ok in that regard but it is poor design that this change is going to further differentiate between a templar healer and any other class healer.

#3 - Uh, what? Who does this?

#4 - I have no issue with a shift in meta forcing a change in gear, build, and strats. I do take issue when this change (while truly PvP based) is sold as "to make tanking more fun" when it is only limiting options and taking away our options and engagement.



ALSO - you likely haven't read the thread on how this was actually implemented. If I am tanking away without block and just TAP that block for one attack (say 1/2 second) I don't just lose 1/2 second of regen. Regen ticks every 3 seconds. Hitting block RESETS the tick timer when you release it. This means that at BEST, just before I hit block I had received a tick so you do only lose the 1/2 second....but this is rare. At worst - I hit block at 2.9s, hold it for 1/2 sec, then have to wait 3 full seconds for the next tick. As a tank - how long do you have 3 full seconds in between attacks that require blocking? Pretty much NEVER if it is remotely challenging content. RIP any stamina regen.

if this is the reality of things, then yeah, this is a REALLY dumb move. no class has a "3 second" do nothing moment, because its twitch based combat lol. i would also say, that this is ZoS being lazy (again) and not just doing it right the first time. while i don't agree with the solutions and alternatives posted here, there are quite a few of them. it wouldn't be that hard to conjure something up.