Why does Stamina Sorc still not have a stamina attack??

Erock25 · July 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @zos_ericwrobel

Please please please listen to us and make changes this time. Last round of PTS we were promised improvements and I'm sorry to say that what has been offered (Dark Deal improvements and Thundering Presence morph) are not enough. I haven't had a chance to use Dark Deal in real game experiences yet, but the new animation and mechanics of it could be promising. That is great, but the Thundering Presence morph was a poor decision. Boundless Storm is arguably the most useful sorc ability for the stamina sorc and will still be the morph of choice for stamina users if this update goes through because of the speed buff and poor damage of Thundering Presence. I'm not sure why ZOS or Eric Wrobel in particular is against giving Sorc a stamina based attack, but it is the main thing we need to actually feel like a stamina sorc and not a generic class neutral stamina user. I don't care if it is a dot or a weak hitting ability that has buffs attached or an ability that you need to proc like crystal frag ..... just make it worth using and set it up so it is a vital part of our rotations and we will be happy.

Here are my two simple and concise suggestions that I guarantee you will really turn stamina sorc opinions around.

1. We need passives to help stamina sorcs. Expert Mage should have weapon dmg increases as well. I see no reason to pigeon hole sorcs into a magicka or gtfo mind set. In the same manner, Exploitation needs to increase weapon critical as well as spell critical. It isn't like there are practical builds out there that are utilizing both spell dmg/crit as well as weapon dmg/crit. You won't make magicka sorcs anymore powerful with these changes. They are very minor and very needed to feel like we are actually getting benefits out of our class.

2. We need an attack that scales on stamina that is also in the Dark Magic tree to give us access to the Blood Magic passive. My prefered suggestion is changing Crystal Blast into a melee range and stamina version of Crystal Frag. I believe Crystal Frag and its proc based mechanics define the magicka sorc. It is our hard hitter that we can not spam that gives us a mechanic that takes active participation to maximize our effectiveness. It would be great to translate this mechanic to the stam sorc. The alternative is to change Daedric Tomb into a stamina morph.

I know ZOS is busy now and inundated with suggestions, but I honestly think it would be a damn shame to let yet another round of PTS updates go through without addressing the above concerns. We aren't asking for a lot. Please make it happen.

eventide03b14a_ESO · July 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.

Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.

This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.

Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.

Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.

This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

Wow Fengrush. I really respect you for managing to answer to such posts with such composure. I am sure if I tried to answer his two previous posts I would get a forum infraction for the simple fact that these posts are not trolling which makes it even worse......

I'm sick of people making a sorcerer and then complaining that it's only good with magic. Yet I'm the one accused of trolling. Too funny.

Youre the one insisting its only good with magicka. The reality is theyve designed the game to allow all classes to be played in any hybrid fashion. When ZOS clearly has stated they intend to make changes for stam sorc then only put changes in that negatively impact it - theres a right to complain. Unfortunately the crowd of stam sorcs is very small.

Your arguments hold no water.

If it's viable, then it's your argument that holds no water.

My argument, that proposed changes that are negatively impacting one of the weakest class setups, is a bad thing holds no water?

If youre here to argue on behalf on magicka sorcs theres nothing to really worry about. Magicka sorcs are fairly easy to play and in a fine place - theres no impending nerfs really lined up for it either. This is the wrong thread for you. FENGRUSH paved the way for magicka sorcs through beta and release.

Its time to plow a path for stam sorcs. If you are relevant/have input on the issue of stam sorcs, feel free to contribute. Theres not much of a reason to associate buffs for stam sorc as a nerf for magicka sorc anyway.

If they can bring stamina morphs and options into the class without breaking how we play it as a magicka class then I wouldn't have any objection to it. The problem is I don't have as much faith in ZOS as you seem to. You're asking them to fundamentally change the class when it's one of the most balanced and versatile classes in the game. It's pretty selfish and short sighted IMO. Offer a suggestion as to what morphs should go stamina and how they would function and maybe we could actually have a discussion about this. Otherwise all this QQing is just a waste of everyones times.

eventide03b14a_ESO · July 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @zos_ericwrobel

Please please please listen to us and make changes this time. Last round of PTS we were promised improvements and I'm sorry to say that what has been offered (Dark Deal improvements and Thundering Presence morph) are not enough. I haven't had a chance to use Dark Deal in real game experiences yet, but the new animation and mechanics of it could be promising. That is great, but the Thundering Presence morph was a poor decision. Boundless Storm is arguably the most useful sorc ability for the stamina sorc and will still be the morph of choice for stamina users if this update goes through because of the speed buff and poor damage of Thundering Presence. I'm not sure why ZOS or Eric Wrobel in particular is against giving Sorc a stamina based attack, but it is the main thing we need to actually feel like a stamina sorc and not a generic class neutral stamina user. I don't care if it is a dot or a weak hitting ability that has buffs attached or an ability that you need to proc like crystal frag ..... just make it worth using and set it up so it is a vital part of our rotations and we will be happy.

Boundless storm should be left to magicka builds. Why should you get the better morph just because you want it. I wouldn't care if it was the same effect but scaled off of stamina and weapon damage instead of magicka. But don't take ours away.

Here are my two simple and concise suggestions that I guarantee you will really turn stamina sorc opinions around.

1. We need passives to help stamina sorcs. Expert Mage should have weapon dmg increases as well. I see no reason to pigeon hole sorcs into a magicka or gtfo mind set. In the same manner, Exploitation needs to increase weapon critical as well as spell critical. It isn't like there are practical builds out there that are utilizing both spell dmg/crit as well as weapon dmg/crit. You won't make magicka sorcs anymore powerful with these changes. They are very minor and very needed to feel like we are actually getting benefits out of our class.

As long as they don't impact magicka builds.

2. We need an attack that scales on stamina that is also in the Dark Magic tree to give us access to the Blood Magic passive. My prefered suggestion is changing Crystal Blast into a melee range and stamina version of Crystal Frag. I believe Crystal Frag and its proc based mechanics define the magicka sorc. It is our hard hitter that we can not spam that gives us a mechanic that takes active participation to maximize our effectiveness. It would be great to translate this mechanic to the stam sorc. The alternative is to change Daedric Tomb into a stamina morph.

Nobody uses that morph anyway, I say take it.

I know ZOS is busy now and inundated with suggestions, but I honestly think it would be a damn shame to let yet another round of PTS updates go through without addressing the above concerns. We aren't asking for a lot. Please make it happen.

Erock25 · July 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @zos_ericwrobel

Please please please listen to us and make changes this time. Last round of PTS we were promised improvements and I'm sorry to say that what has been offered (Dark Deal improvements and Thundering Presence morph) are not enough. I haven't had a chance to use Dark Deal in real game experiences yet, but the new animation and mechanics of it could be promising. That is great, but the Thundering Presence morph was a poor decision. Boundless Storm is arguably the most useful sorc ability for the stamina sorc and will still be the morph of choice for stamina users if this update goes through because of the speed buff and poor damage of Thundering Presence. I'm not sure why ZOS or Eric Wrobel in particular is against giving Sorc a stamina based attack, but it is the main thing we need to actually feel like a stamina sorc and not a generic class neutral stamina user. I don't care if it is a dot or a weak hitting ability that has buffs attached or an ability that you need to proc like crystal frag ..... just make it worth using and set it up so it is a vital part of our rotations and we will be happy.

Boundless storm should be left to magicka builds. Why should you get the better morph just because you want it. I wouldn't care if it was the same effect but scaled off of stamina and weapon damage instead of magicka. But don't take ours away.

Here are my two simple and concise suggestions that I guarantee you will really turn stamina sorc opinions around.

1. We need passives to help stamina sorcs. Expert Mage should have weapon dmg increases as well. I see no reason to pigeon hole sorcs into a magicka or gtfo mind set. In the same manner, Exploitation needs to increase weapon critical as well as spell critical. It isn't like there are practical builds out there that are utilizing both spell dmg/crit as well as weapon dmg/crit. You won't make magicka sorcs anymore powerful with these changes. They are very minor and very needed to feel like we are actually getting benefits out of our class.

As long as they don't impact magicka builds.

2. We need an attack that scales on stamina that is also in the Dark Magic tree to give us access to the Blood Magic passive. My prefered suggestion is changing Crystal Blast into a melee range and stamina version of Crystal Frag. I believe Crystal Frag and its proc based mechanics define the magicka sorc. It is our hard hitter that we can not spam that gives us a mechanic that takes active participation to maximize our effectiveness. It would be great to translate this mechanic to the stam sorc. The alternative is to change Daedric Tomb into a stamina morph.

Nobody uses that morph anyway, I say take it.

I know ZOS is busy now and inundated with suggestions, but I honestly think it would be a damn shame to let yet another round of PTS updates go through without addressing the above concerns. We aren't asking for a lot. Please make it happen.

I was not implying that Boundless be switched to stamina. In fact, I like boundless as a nice magicka dump for Stam Sorcs.

eventide03b14a_ESO · July 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @zos_ericwrobel

Please please please listen to us and make changes this time. Last round of PTS we were promised improvements and I'm sorry to say that what has been offered (Dark Deal improvements and Thundering Presence morph) are not enough. I haven't had a chance to use Dark Deal in real game experiences yet, but the new animation and mechanics of it could be promising. That is great, but the Thundering Presence morph was a poor decision. Boundless Storm is arguably the most useful sorc ability for the stamina sorc and will still be the morph of choice for stamina users if this update goes through because of the speed buff and poor damage of Thundering Presence. I'm not sure why ZOS or Eric Wrobel in particular is against giving Sorc a stamina based attack, but it is the main thing we need to actually feel like a stamina sorc and not a generic class neutral stamina user. I don't care if it is a dot or a weak hitting ability that has buffs attached or an ability that you need to proc like crystal frag ..... just make it worth using and set it up so it is a vital part of our rotations and we will be happy.

Boundless storm should be left to magicka builds. Why should you get the better morph just because you want it. I wouldn't care if it was the same effect but scaled off of stamina and weapon damage instead of magicka. But don't take ours away.

Here are my two simple and concise suggestions that I guarantee you will really turn stamina sorc opinions around.

1. We need passives to help stamina sorcs. Expert Mage should have weapon dmg increases as well. I see no reason to pigeon hole sorcs into a magicka or gtfo mind set. In the same manner, Exploitation needs to increase weapon critical as well as spell critical. It isn't like there are practical builds out there that are utilizing both spell dmg/crit as well as weapon dmg/crit. You won't make magicka sorcs anymore powerful with these changes. They are very minor and very needed to feel like we are actually getting benefits out of our class.

As long as they don't impact magicka builds.

2. We need an attack that scales on stamina that is also in the Dark Magic tree to give us access to the Blood Magic passive. My prefered suggestion is changing Crystal Blast into a melee range and stamina version of Crystal Frag. I believe Crystal Frag and its proc based mechanics define the magicka sorc. It is our hard hitter that we can not spam that gives us a mechanic that takes active participation to maximize our effectiveness. It would be great to translate this mechanic to the stam sorc. The alternative is to change Daedric Tomb into a stamina morph.

Nobody uses that morph anyway, I say take it.

I know ZOS is busy now and inundated with suggestions, but I honestly think it would be a damn shame to let yet another round of PTS updates go through without addressing the above concerns. We aren't asking for a lot. Please make it happen.

I was not implying that Boundless be switched to stamina. In fact, I like boundless as a nice magicka dump for Stam Sorcs.

It is a good way to utilize that resource, though the damage for stamina builds should scale off of stamina and weapon damage. That would go a long way to improving it for stamina builds. Both morphs should include a speed increase.

Cathexis · July 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Thundering Presence is garbage.
Let me be clear.
I am on PTS right now.
It does not give Major Expedition. What Stamina Sorc worth a damn is going to use this morph in PvP?

This whole thread is hilarious.

It's like buying a car and then complaining that it doesn't float like a boat.

This is the dumbest ass analogy ever.

It's more like buying a car and then having someone from the sales department come to your house after 8 months and replace it with a boat and tell you gl getting to work on time.

FENGRUSH · July 2015

Yes both should have the speed increase - agree with Erock that lightning form was basically the only mana skill next to blink on a stam sorcs bar.

Even if damaged is amped on the stam version and they give it speed, which would be great - it should be kept in mind that having a nonburst lowdps skill that only works when youre standing next to someone is pretty irrelevant unless its doing significantly high damage or accrues over time through consecutive hits. Currently its doing about half of what caltrops does - and caltrops is primarily used for its utility to put things in perspective. The lightning forms damage is one of the lowest damage skills in the game probably, so 'switching this to a stam morph' as if it was going to makeup for other losses in the stam department is a joke.

Nobody is asking to take away things from the magicka side of the table. Everyone knows theres ton of sorc skills that dont get used by magicka or stam. Additionally, theres tons of morphs for magicka only skills that arent ever used by magicka sorcs, nor by stam sorcs. These are the skill/morphs that should be getting tweaked and put into play for stam sorcs.

And as Erock mentioned - definately could use some passives that work with stam. This is where sorc lacks the most, every class has something in their passives that works with stam. To imply I have a lot of faith @eventide03b14a_ESO means you dont know who I am and the posts Ive made on this forum. Im only my final warning so this is pretty much the option I have to communicate on the subject.

Cathexis · July 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.

Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.

This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.

Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.

Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.

This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

I can make a stam sorcs work, but I respectfully disagree that it is working fine in its current state (non-pts).
If namiras rot and columbine werent impossible to come by, I would agree that on the whole pre-pts stamina sorcs are at least doable.

FENGRUSH · July 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.

Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.

This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.

Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.

Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.

This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

I can make a stam sorcs worm, but I respectfully disagree that it is working fine in its current state (non-pts).
If namiras rot and columbine werent impossible to come by, I would agree that on the whole pre-pts stamina sorcs are at least doable.

Hehe theyre not impossible but expensive.

Is it working fine? In comparison to current impending changes Id say it works terrific.

Come check out my stream and if you disagree that is your opinion, but I do pretty well in small/large scale PVP soloing and can hold my own in duels despite the class having limited options against builds with plenty more burst/survival.

Cathexis · July 2015

Overall I believe that stam sorcs are generally weak in all areas. A lot of people are advocating for a stam damage skill which I agree with. However I generally feel that we lack a lot of the utilities that magicka sorcs have access to, and that broad utility combined with mobility is how sorcerers in this game generally function. I would much rather have access to the shields and ability to teleport that magicka sorcs have over further damage as a priority.

When you actually look at stamina sorcs, you see that they struggle in virtually every area, and have very limited creative flexibility in terms of build options.

eventide03b14a_ESO · July 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Thundering Presence is garbage.
Let me be clear.
I am on PTS right now.
It does not give Major Expedition. What Stamina Sorc worth a damn is going to use this morph in PvP?

This whole thread is hilarious.

It's like buying a car and then complaining that it doesn't float like a boat.

This is the dumbest ass analogy ever.

It's more like buying a car and then having someone from the sales department come to your house after 8 months and replace it with a boat and tell you gl getting to work on time.

Your analogy is worse. Nothing changed about the sorc. It's the same as it's always been. If you couldn't figure out by level 20 that it wasn't going to be a very good choice as a stamina based character then that's your own stupidity. To continue to play it and hoping that they were going to fundamentally change the class, and then get upset when they don't is probably even stupider.

Cathexis · July 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Thundering Presence is garbage.
Let me be clear.
I am on PTS right now.
It does not give Major Expedition. What Stamina Sorc worth a damn is going to use this morph in PvP?

This whole thread is hilarious.

It's like buying a car and then complaining that it doesn't float like a boat.

This is the dumbest ass analogy ever.

It's more like buying a car and then having someone from the sales department come to your house after 8 months and replace it with a boat and tell you gl getting to work on time.

Your analogy is worse. Nothing changed about the sorc. It's the same as it's always been. If you couldn't figure out by level 20 that it wasn't going to be a very good choice as a stamina based character then that's your own stupidity. To continue to play it and hoping that they were going to fundamentally change the class, and then get upset when they don't is probably even stupider.

lol you are so wrong that it hurts. I have played a different build every patch since day 1 because of the constant changes. As someone said a few posts from now, stamina sorcs were very viable prior to 1.6 because soft caps were implemented which meant you could redistribute into stamina based skills even if you were magicka without a cost.

So no sir, you still remain a giant doosh canoe, as stated in my other thread about stam sorcs, where you proved you knew absolutely nothing about the stamina sorc as a class and as a player base.

FENGRUSH · July 2015

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

Alcast · July 2015

Every class is viable, its the player behind the setup.

Noobs will always stay Noobs no matter what setup they will choose/copy. Its as easy as that.

eventide03b14a_ESO · July 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

FENGRUSH · July 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

eventide03b14a_ESO · July 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

Erock25 · July 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

Just little tweaks to passives and one more stam morph, preferably Crystal Blast. I'd appreciate it if you stopped spamming stam sorc topics with your complaints as it is not helping the discussion at all.

TBois · July 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

Please understand that the most important thing here is ZOS wants to change it too and does not consider it a perfect class. You seem to be one of the few who does, as ZOS and other players take class build diversity into account.

FENGRUSH · July 2015

Sorcs were more perfect when AOE caps didnt exist, negate was powerful, and dynamic ults were in play!

The zergs will remember FENGRUSHs endless assault and ground oil escapades!

exiledtyrant · July 2015

I don't think there is going to be much of an open dialogue until the 31st during the panel Q and A or even a week after. I would suggest you all get your questions into that thread if you haven't already.

I gave the sewers a try again and the damage is just to low. I'll be going back to my heavy attack hybrid until the changes can be touched up again. Liquid lightning + whirling blades is far better than any pure stamina variant I could cook up for AOE, and undaunted heavy attacks do way more damage single target than any of the regular options barring wrecking blow. This is all while being able to shield again which I can't see myself giving up in the current build.

Instant rune cage is still awesome. You can wear down stamina like NBs do with fear and use Rapid strikes at +35% damage without breaking the disorient.

RinaldoGandolphi · July 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

TBois · July 2015

Those are exactly the small things we need and want.

Erock25 · July 2015

I'd appreciate some sort of Dev response. Please tell us whether you are considering doing anything or if you do truly believe that Sorc should be magicka only.

Jar_Ek · July 2015

I haven't managed to get to pts yet, but I am not hopeful if stamina sorcerers only got the T.Presence morph...
Frankly I cannot understand zos, they have had numerous suggestion threads - all of which provided a variety of decent ideas... and all they do is make Thundering Presence a stamina morph - which only helps pve stamina tanks keep aggro very slightly.

Stamina sorcerers at PC launch were in a decent place because soft caps meant that their use of magicka skills were not dreadful in comparison to their stamina skills, plus critical surge was an effective heal and you could stack buffs - allowing for high weapon power. 1.6 hit and basically destroyed stamina sorcerers overnight - critical surge heals became a death sentence due to RNG, hybrid builds (which is what everyone pretty much was) died as their damage was a fraction of resource stacking builds, and stamina builds also got hit with a passive change that did nothing for them and actively hurt them (expert mage), and no good stamina morphs for either offence or defence (and arguably not much for utility).

Whether you agree with me or not, this at least tries to address the stamina sorcerer concerns:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197466/stamina-sorcerer-changes-a-plea
which is very similar to @FENGRUSH summary and is probably a distillation of stamina sorcerer thinking (@FENGRUSH summary not my thread).

One last things about selfishness... stamina sorcerers have bent over backwards to suggest ways to support stamina builds without heavily impacting magicka ones and for the most part they get grief for it - when their, perfectly valid, play style was gutted due to no fault of their own.

CP5 · July 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

How do you see the sorcerer as perfectly balanced? Are there many builds outside the few current meta ones that prove they are consistently as effective as the same old same old shield stacking bolt spamming ones? Do you see sorcerer pet builds and think of them as very effective? The sorcerer class is lop sided right now, being rather effective in a few things but lacking heavily in others. Rather than shouting down anyone who offers ideas why not give some ideas yourself that would cover our problems without cutting into your play style?

Cathexis · July 2015

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.

Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.

This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.

Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.

Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.

This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

Wow Fengrush. I really respect you for managing to answer to such posts with such composure. I am sure if I tried to answer his two previous posts I would get a forum infraction for the simple fact that these posts are not trolling which makes it even worse......

I'm sick of people making a sorcerer and then complaining that it's only good with magic. Yet I'm the one accused of trolling. Too funny.

Get. Out. Of. This. Thread......Now. This is a discussion on stamina sorcs. Unless you have something useful to contribute.

This is the second thread on stam sorcs that @eventide03b14a_ESO has been asked to leave

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2079268/#Comment_2079268

I think its ironic that you are saying were the ones who haven't learned

Players should have the option of playing stamina sorcs. A way of play that should be viable.

Not only that, but you don't even acknowledge the arguments that most stam sorcs are making, that we don't want to harm magicka builds, and that we want to find functional compromises.

If you are going to bring nothing valuable to the conversation, please stop trolling these threads. It is hard for anyone in this thread to take your opinions seriously when you degrade into a one sided perspective that your way of play is the only valuable way of play and no one else's style should be accepted. It's people like you, who want this game to be isolated to cookie cutter builds that ruin it. You know nothing about the essence of elder scrolls games, and you corrode its foundation when you troll here.

Change WILL be coming for stamina sorcs, which has be acknowledged time and time again in stamina sorc related threads, and you have done nothing but come in and hinder any kind of positive progress and any kind of serious feedback at a time when stamina sorcs are suffering further deficits in the coming patch. You would think, with the number of seriously concerned threads and replies, that by now you would recognize that stamina sorcs aren't just "some minority of players" and to add to that that maybe, just maybe you might be wrong to discriminate against "some minority of players" even if that's what we were (which we aren't).

Stikato · July 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

Bravo dude. Very well thought out. Stamina damage, stamina management, stamina utility skills. And balanced. This is what we want.

Cathexis · July 2015

Stikato wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

Bravo dude. Very well thought out. Stamina damage, stamina management, stamina utility skills. And balanced. This is what we want.

AGREE! This is awesome! Also a great example of balanced changes that don't harm magicka users.

Darkeus · July 2015

enough with this crap with magik/stamina skills! make all skill be wep based dmg and thats it.