Why does Stamina Sorc still not have a stamina attack??

Erock25

Stikato wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

Bravo dude. Very well thought out. Stamina damage, stamina management, stamina utility skills. And balanced. This is what we want.

I also like the list besides Daedric Curse scaling on stamina/weapon dmg but still costing magicka and Crit Surge costing stamina (magicka dumps that have no scaling component are welcomed).

eventide03b14a_ESO

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

I would love for those changes to happen actually. But I sincerely doubt they are going to give us those stamina passives, which would also benefit the magicka builds, arguably, even more. The outrage from people that already QQ about sorcs would only intensify. You honestly think that wouldn't be the case?

eventide03b14a_ESO

Cathexis wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.


Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.


This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.


Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.



Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.


This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

Wow Fengrush. I really respect you for managing to answer to such posts with such composure. I am sure if I tried to answer his two previous posts I would get a forum infraction for the simple fact that these posts are not trolling which makes it even worse......

I'm sick of people making a sorcerer and then complaining that it's only good with magic. Yet I'm the one accused of trolling. Too funny.

Get. Out. Of. This. Thread......Now. This is a discussion on stamina sorcs. Unless you have something useful to contribute.

This is the second thread on stam sorcs that @eventide03b14a_ESO has been asked to leave

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2079268/#Comment_2079268

I think its ironic that you are saying were the ones who haven't learned

Players should have the option of playing stamina sorcs. A way of play that should be viable.

Not only that, but you don't even acknowledge the arguments that most stam sorcs are making, that we don't want to harm magicka builds, and that we want to find functional compromises.

If you are going to bring nothing valuable to the conversation, please stop trolling these threads. It is hard for anyone in this thread to take your opinions seriously when you degrade into a one sided perspective that your way of play is the only valuable way of play and no one else's style should be accepted. It's people like you, who want this game to be isolated to cookie cutter builds that ruin it. You know nothing about the essence of elder scrolls games, and you corrode its foundation when you troll here.

Change WILL be coming for stamina sorcs, which has be acknowledged time and time again in stamina sorc related threads, and you have done nothing but come in and hinder any kind of positive progress and any kind of serious feedback at a time when stamina sorcs are suffering further deficits in the coming patch. You would think, with the number of seriously concerned threads and replies, that by now you would recognize that stamina sorcs aren't just "some minority of players" and to add to that that maybe, just maybe you might be wrong to discriminate against "some minority of players" even if that's what we were (which we aren't).

I guess I just don't understand why you can't be happy with one of the strongest classes in the game. If you think they are just going to add a bunch of stamina passives, thus making even the magicka builds even more powerful without taking something, then it only shows how naive you are.

OtarTheMad

Erock25 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

While I feel your pain about trying to make stamina sorc work I also think that ZOS shouldn't have to make Sorcs with the most stamina morphs just to make it work.

Most?

We have Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, and now Thundering Presence. One toggle, one 20s buff, and one previously useless but maybe sorta kinda now useful heal/stam restore tool. There needs to be some sort of attack, whether it is direct damage or dot damage or whatever ... we need something to use more frequently.

What I am saying is that if ZOS has to give the Sorc class more stamina morphs then the others just so it can "work" then I think that kind of hurts the class overall. I get that they might have chose the wrong abilities to give stamina morphs to but you have the weapon skill line for attacks. I tried stamina Sorc for a bit and it was okay, I wouldn't use crystal frag if they gave it a stamina morph because WB probably hits harder anyway. Or for range attacks I'd use a bow since it has more distance anyway.

Some are saying give stamina Sorcs a Mages Wrath morph and Crystal Frag morph, okay now the Sorc class has 5-6 stamina morphs... while the other classes have... what... 2 or 3. lol. Even with 5 or 6 does it make the class any easier to play?

Samadhi

Erock25 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @zos_ericwrobel

Please please please listen to us and make changes this time. ...

2. We need an attack that scales on stamina that is also in the Dark Magic tree to give us access to the Blood Magic passive. My prefered suggestion is changing Crystal Blast into a melee range and stamina version of Crystal Frag. I believe Crystal Frag and its proc based mechanics define the magicka sorc. It is our hard hitter that we can not spam that gives us a mechanic that takes active participation to maximize our effectiveness. It would be great to translate this mechanic to the stam sorc. The alternative is to change Daedric Tomb into a stamina morph.

I know ZOS is busy now and inundated with suggestions, but I honestly think it would be a damn shame to let yet another round of PTS updates go through without addressing the above concerns. We aren't asking for a lot. Please make it happen.

Turn Crystal Blast into Crystal Fist.

Instant cast, melee range
high damage to target + splash damage to nearby enemies

Make the animation the Sorcerer punching the target with a gauntlet made of the crystal textures; on impact it explodes and throws shards around the area (hence the AoE damage portion).

Would be a meaningful change, and it would provide a unique mechanic from Magicka Sorcerers, while preserving the overall flavour of the skill-line.

Erock25

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

While I feel your pain about trying to make stamina sorc work I also think that ZOS shouldn't have to make Sorcs with the most stamina morphs just to make it work.

Most?

We have Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, and now Thundering Presence. One toggle, one 20s buff, and one previously useless but maybe sorta kinda now useful heal/stam restore tool. There needs to be some sort of attack, whether it is direct damage or dot damage or whatever ... we need something to use more frequently.

What I am saying is that if ZOS has to give the Sorc class more stamina morphs then the others just so it can "work" then I think that kind of hurts the class overall. I get that they might have chose the wrong abilities to give stamina morphs to but you have the weapon skill line for attacks. I tried stamina Sorc for a bit and it was okay, I wouldn't use crystal frag if they gave it a stamina morph because WB probably hits harder anyway.

Yeah I just don't think it is fair to think of Bound Armaments and Dark Deal as stamina morphs. These are buffs and utility skills that don't scale on your resources anyways. That is like saying Molten Weapons is a stamina morph for the DK and that Siphoning is a stamina morph for the NB. Really the only true stamina morph sorcs have now is Thundering Presence and even that is going to be ignored in favor of Boundless Storm by stamina spec sorcs. Giving Sorc one more skill that scales on weapon crit, weapon power, and stamina is not close to making it so Sorc has more class stamina morphs than the others. The three other classes have multiple attacks that do dmg that scale on stamina to go along with various buffs and passives that affect stamina/weapon power/weapon crit ..... Sorc is clearly and undeniably way behind.

Erock25

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Some are saying give stamina Sorcs a Mages Wrath morph and Crystal Frag morph, okay now the Sorc class has 5-6 stamina morphs... while the other classes have... what... 2 or 3. lol. Even with 5 or 6 does it make the class any easier to play?

Here is a list of changes made to the game in 1.6 that affect stamina builds for each class

DK changes that affect stamina builds

Searing Strike

Unstable Flames (morph): This ability now scales off Stamina and Attack Power and costs Stamina. Damage is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics.

Fiery Breath

Burning Breath (morph): This ability will now scale off of stamina and weapon power, and is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics. This ability now applies the Major Fracture debuff to your target.

Inferno

Flames of Oblivion (morph): This ability now provides the same effect as Inferno, as well as providing the Major Savagery (that is weapon crit) buff while active.

Molten Weapons

This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.

Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.

Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.

Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.

Earthen Heart

Mountain’s Blessing: This passive now also grants all allies within 30 meters the buff Minor Brutality for 10 seconds at Rank I, or 20 seconds at Rank II.

NB changes that affect stamina builds

Assassins Blade

Killer’s Blade (morph): This is now a stamina-based ability. The heal from this ability will now be applied if your target dies within 2 seconds of the ability being used, regardless of who killed the target.

Teleport Strike

Ambush: This ability now uses stamina instead of magicka, and applies the Minor Berserk buff on the next attack.

Mark Target

This ability now grants the Major Breach and Major Fracture buffs.
Removed the penalty from this ability.
This ability can now be cast on any target.
Reduced the cost of this ability by approximately 50%, and reduced the duration to 20 seconds.
Piercing Mark (morph): The duration of this ability now scales with ability ranks up to a maximum of 30 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark (morph): This ability now grants the Major Berserk buff for 8 seconds after the target is killed.

Veiled Strike

Surprise Attack (morph): This morph is now a stamina-based ability, now applies the Major Fracture debuff, and will no longer reduce your target’s armor if they dodge the initial attack.

Drain Power

The damage caused by Drain Power no longer scales with the number of targets hit. Instead, you will receive a Major Brutality buff when damaging at least one target.
Power Extraction (morph): This ability now scales off weapon damage and stamina instead of magicka and spell damage. The damage has also been increased by 10%.

Templar changes that affect stamina builds

Puncturing Strikes

Biting Jabs (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.

Piercing Javelin

Binding Javelin (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power.

Backlash

Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.

Aedric Spear

Burning Light: The damage from this passive is now derived from your highest stats (stamina or magicka based).

Aedric Spear

Balance Warrior: Increased the weapon damage from this passive to 3% at Rank I, and 6% at Rank II.

Sorc changes that affect stamina builds

Bound Armor

Bound Armaments (morph): This ability now costs Stamina instead of Magicka, gives you a bonus to stamina instead of magicka, and increases the damage done by heavy attacks.

Dark Exchange

Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

Now I'm not 100% on what else has changed for the other classes since this, but only one thing was added for Sorc and this doesn't even mention all the class skills that helped out stamina users before 1.6 like DK's green dragon blood or Templars repentance.

eventide03b14a_ESO

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

While I feel your pain about trying to make stamina sorc work I also think that ZOS shouldn't have to make Sorcs with the most stamina morphs just to make it work.

Most?

We have Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, and now Thundering Presence. One toggle, one 20s buff, and one previously useless but maybe sorta kinda now useful heal/stam restore tool. There needs to be some sort of attack, whether it is direct damage or dot damage or whatever ... we need something to use more frequently.

What I am saying is that if ZOS has to give the Sorc class more stamina morphs then the others just so it can "work" then I think that kind of hurts the class overall. I get that they might have chose the wrong abilities to give stamina morphs to but you have the weapon skill line for attacks. I tried stamina Sorc for a bit and it was okay, I wouldn't use crystal frag if they gave it a stamina morph because WB probably hits harder anyway. Or for range attacks I'd use a bow since it has more distance anyway.

Some are saying give stamina Sorcs a Mages Wrath morph and Crystal Frag morph, okay now the Sorc class has 5-6 stamina morphs... while the other classes have... what... 2 or 3. lol. Even with 5 or 6 does it make the class any easier to play?

Empowered Ward scaling off of Stamina like someone suggested is a terrible idea. Medium armor already offers more protection than light. A better compromise would be to keep it scaled off of magicka, but give Minor Berserk increasing damage.

Instead of Crystal Blast, I would change it so that it coats your weapons in Dark Crystals granting Major Brutality.

Daedric Minfield could cost stamina and scale off of stamina and weapons damage without any ill effect.

Thundering Presence should still cost magicka but also grant Major Expedition and and the damage should scale off of stamina and weapon damage.

I think asking for stamina passives on top of those changes is just too much. You also can't ask for all these spells to cost stamina. Keeping them costing magicka will actually keep your stamina resource pool available for damage abilities and it's more in line with the NB buffs.

Samadhi

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

While I feel your pain about trying to make stamina sorc work I also think that ZOS shouldn't have to make Sorcs with the most stamina morphs just to make it work.

Most?

We have Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, and now Thundering Presence. One toggle, one 20s buff, and one previously useless but maybe sorta kinda now useful heal/stam restore tool. There needs to be some sort of attack, whether it is direct damage or dot damage or whatever ... we need something to use more frequently.

What I am saying is that if ZOS has to give the Sorc class more stamina morphs then the others just so it can "work" then I think that kind of hurts the class overall. I get that they might have chose the wrong abilities to give stamina morphs to but you have the weapon skill line for attacks. I tried stamina Sorc for a bit and it was okay, I wouldn't use crystal frag if they gave it a stamina morph because WB probably hits harder anyway. Or for range attacks I'd use a bow since it has more distance anyway.

Some are saying give stamina Sorcs a Mages Wrath morph and Crystal Frag morph, okay now the Sorc class has 5-6 stamina morphs... while the other classes have... what... 2 or 3. lol. Even with 5 or 6 does it make the class any easier to play?

My desire for a Crystal morph geared to Stamina builds is because prior to this update, my Nightblade got a direct damage + debuff Stamina skill; my Templar got a direct damage + AoE damage + Self Buff Stamina skill; my Dragonknight got a damage + DoT Stamina skill.
My Sorcerer remains entirely reliant upon Weapon skill lines.

TBois

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

While I feel your pain about trying to make stamina sorc work I also think that ZOS shouldn't have to make Sorcs with the most stamina morphs just to make it work.

Most?

We have Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, and now Thundering Presence. One toggle, one 20s buff, and one previously useless but maybe sorta kinda now useful heal/stam restore tool. There needs to be some sort of attack, whether it is direct damage or dot damage or whatever ... we need something to use more frequently.

What I am saying is that if ZOS has to give the Sorc class more stamina morphs then the others just so it can "work" then I think that kind of hurts the class overall. I get that they might have chose the wrong abilities to give stamina morphs to but you have the weapon skill line for attacks. I tried stamina Sorc for a bit and it was okay, I wouldn't use crystal frag if they gave it a stamina morph because WB probably hits harder anyway. Or for range attacks I'd use a bow since it has more distance anyway.

Some are saying give stamina Sorcs a Mages Wrath morph and Crystal Frag morph, okay now the Sorc class has 5-6 stamina morphs... while the other classes have... what... 2 or 3. lol. Even with 5 or 6 does it make the class any easier to play?

Empowered Ward scaling off of Stamina like someone suggested is a terrible idea. Medium armor already offers more protection than light. A better compromise would be to keep it scaled off of magicka, but give Minor Berserk increasing damage.

Instead of Crystal Blast, I would change it so that it coats your weapons in Dark Crystals granting Major Brutality.

Daedric Minfield could cost stamina and scale off of stamina and weapons damage without any ill effect.

Thundering Presence should still cost magicka but also grant Major Expedition and and the damage should scale off of stamina and weapon damage.

I think asking for stamina passives on top of those changes is just too much. You also can't ask for all these spells to cost stamina. Keeping them costing magicka will actually keep your stamina resource pool available for damage abilities and it's more in line with the NB buffs.

Now there is some good constructive discussion.

Cathexis

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.


Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.


This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.


Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.



Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.


This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

Wow Fengrush. I really respect you for managing to answer to such posts with such composure. I am sure if I tried to answer his two previous posts I would get a forum infraction for the simple fact that these posts are not trolling which makes it even worse......

I'm sick of people making a sorcerer and then complaining that it's only good with magic. Yet I'm the one accused of trolling. Too funny.

Get. Out. Of. This. Thread......Now. This is a discussion on stamina sorcs. Unless you have something useful to contribute.

This is the second thread on stam sorcs that @eventide03b14a_ESO has been asked to leave

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2079268/#Comment_2079268

I think its ironic that you are saying were the ones who haven't learned

Players should have the option of playing stamina sorcs. A way of play that should be viable.

Not only that, but you don't even acknowledge the arguments that most stam sorcs are making, that we don't want to harm magicka builds, and that we want to find functional compromises.

If you are going to bring nothing valuable to the conversation, please stop trolling these threads. It is hard for anyone in this thread to take your opinions seriously when you degrade into a one sided perspective that your way of play is the only valuable way of play and no one else's style should be accepted. It's people like you, who want this game to be isolated to cookie cutter builds that ruin it. You know nothing about the essence of elder scrolls games, and you corrode its foundation when you troll here.

Change WILL be coming for stamina sorcs, which has be acknowledged time and time again in stamina sorc related threads, and you have done nothing but come in and hinder any kind of positive progress and any kind of serious feedback at a time when stamina sorcs are suffering further deficits in the coming patch. You would think, with the number of seriously concerned threads and replies, that by now you would recognize that stamina sorcs aren't just "some minority of players" and to add to that that maybe, just maybe you might be wrong to discriminate against "some minority of players" even if that's what we were (which we aren't).

I guess I just don't understand why you can't be happy with one of the strongest classes in the game. If you think they are just going to add a bunch of stamina passives, thus making even the magicka builds even more powerful without taking something, then it only shows how naive you are.

@eventide03b14a_ESO I don't know if you noticed but they're nerfing sorcs *** left and right. Get out of your own ego for a second, you might realize you're on a sinking ship.

Also as someone who plays a magicka sorcs and refuses to acknowledge stam sorcs, you have no right to make suggestions about what we need. Leather armor definitely does not provide enough defensive benefit, especially when mace bugs can entirely negate armor. With more limited mobility, and many of our offensive skills based in close range combat abilities we need shields more and not less. Especially with the hammer coming down hard on mobility in the coming patch.

I can tell you from experience at VR14 with a stam sorc that to stay competitive I'm forced into a block build with double sword/board to 1vX (with very inconsistent results), and it is a poor supplement for being able to actually able to absorb damage. To go toe to toe with other classes, all the damage I take drains my stamina pool. The alternative is to be an entirely glass cannon and use snipe or wrecking blow on switch. We get no in between (and its going to get worse with the new block nerf).

Step out of your cooshy magicka sorc bubble and play the class before you start making decisions about what we need and don't need.

Cathexis

@Erock25 don't forget they also stealth nerfed overload so that you couldn't use weapon based attack moves in overload anymore (which did cancel your overload bar).

c0rp

Because the people making these decision have no *** clue what a stamina sorc needs.

Xael

Funny how popular this thread is and no ZOS response.
I know they have seen it and read pieces of it... *sigh*

kkampaseb17_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

While I feel your pain about trying to make stamina sorc work I also think that ZOS shouldn't have to make Sorcs with the most stamina morphs just to make it work.

Most?

We have Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, and now Thundering Presence. One toggle, one 20s buff, and one previously useless but maybe sorta kinda now useful heal/stam restore tool. There needs to be some sort of attack, whether it is direct damage or dot damage or whatever ... we need something to use more frequently.

What I am saying is that if ZOS has to give the Sorc class more stamina morphs then the others just so it can "work" then I think that kind of hurts the class overall. I get that they might have chose the wrong abilities to give stamina morphs to but you have the weapon skill line for attacks. I tried stamina Sorc for a bit and it was okay, I wouldn't use crystal frag if they gave it a stamina morph because WB probably hits harder anyway. Or for range attacks I'd use a bow since it has more distance anyway.

Some are saying give stamina Sorcs a Mages Wrath morph and Crystal Frag morph, okay now the Sorc class has 5-6 stamina morphs... while the other classes have... what... 2 or 3. lol. Even with 5 or 6 does it make the class any easier to play?

Empowered Ward scaling off of Stamina like someone suggested is a terrible idea. Medium armor already offers more protection than light. A better compromise would be to keep it scaled off of magicka, but give Minor Berserk increasing damage.

Instead of Crystal Blast, I would change it so that it coats your weapons in Dark Crystals granting Major Brutality.

Daedric Minfield could cost stamina and scale off of stamina and weapons damage without any ill effect.

Thundering Presence should still cost magicka but also grant Major Expedition and and the damage should scale off of stamina and weapon damage.

I think asking for stamina passives on top of those changes is just too much. You also can't ask for all these spells to cost stamina. Keeping them costing magicka will actually keep your stamina resource pool available for damage abilities and it's more in line with the NB buffs.

If they don't fix how sharpened maces work and penetrations in general then no.....medium armor doesn't provide anything better than light armor. And I tell you this with 22k armor/spell resistance on live.

Erock25

I think the most interesting sorc change just happens to be undocumented in the patch notes. Rune Cage is now instant cast.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.


Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.


This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.


Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.



Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.


This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

Wow Fengrush. I really respect you for managing to answer to such posts with such composure. I am sure if I tried to answer his two previous posts I would get a forum infraction for the simple fact that these posts are not trolling which makes it even worse......

I'm sick of people making a sorcerer and then complaining that it's only good with magic. Yet I'm the one accused of trolling. Too funny.

Get. Out. Of. This. Thread......Now. This is a discussion on stamina sorcs. Unless you have something useful to contribute.

This is the second thread on stam sorcs that @eventide03b14a_ESO has been asked to leave

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2079268/#Comment_2079268

I think its ironic that you are saying were the ones who haven't learned

Players should have the option of playing stamina sorcs. A way of play that should be viable.

Not only that, but you don't even acknowledge the arguments that most stam sorcs are making, that we don't want to harm magicka builds, and that we want to find functional compromises.

If you are going to bring nothing valuable to the conversation, please stop trolling these threads. It is hard for anyone in this thread to take your opinions seriously when you degrade into a one sided perspective that your way of play is the only valuable way of play and no one else's style should be accepted. It's people like you, who want this game to be isolated to cookie cutter builds that ruin it. You know nothing about the essence of elder scrolls games, and you corrode its foundation when you troll here.

Change WILL be coming for stamina sorcs, which has be acknowledged time and time again in stamina sorc related threads, and you have done nothing but come in and hinder any kind of positive progress and any kind of serious feedback at a time when stamina sorcs are suffering further deficits in the coming patch. You would think, with the number of seriously concerned threads and replies, that by now you would recognize that stamina sorcs aren't just "some minority of players" and to add to that that maybe, just maybe you might be wrong to discriminate against "some minority of players" even if that's what we were (which we aren't).

I guess I just don't understand why you can't be happy with one of the strongest classes in the game. If you think they are just going to add a bunch of stamina passives, thus making even the magicka builds even more powerful without taking something, then it only shows how naive you are.

@eventide03b14a_ESO I don't know if you noticed but they're nerfing sorcs *** left and right. Get out of your own ego for a second, you might realize you're on a sinking ship.

Also as someone who plays a magicka sorcs and refuses to acknowledge stam sorcs, you have no right to make suggestions about what we need. Leather armor definitely does not provide enough defensive benefit, especially when mace bugs can entirely negate armor. With more limited mobility, and many of our offensive skills based in close range combat abilities we need shields more and not less. Especially with the hammer coming down hard on mobility in the coming patch.

I can tell you from experience at VR14 with a stam sorc that to stay competitive I'm forced into a block build with double sword/board to 1vX (with very inconsistent results), and it is a poor supplement for being able to actually able to absorb damage. To go toe to toe with other classes, all the damage I take drains my stamina pool. The alternative is to be an entirely glass cannon and use snipe or wrecking blow on switch. We get no in between (and its going to get worse with the new block nerf).

Step out of your cooshy magicka sorc bubble and play the class before you start making decisions about what we need and don't need.

My $15 a month gives me just as much right as you do. What do you really want anyway? Clearly not satisfied playing the class to it's strengths you want them to completely readjust it to your ridiculous criteria of what you think it should be. Sure take some morphs and have them work with weapon damage or max stamina, but you're honestly just getting greedy. No other class has shields based off of stamina. You're insane to think that they would even agree to such a proposal.

Cathexis wrote: »

@Erock25 don't forget they also stealth nerfed overload so that you couldn't use weapon based attack moves in overload anymore (which did cancel your overload bar).

Why should you ever have been able to? Is 10k+ each light attack not enough?

FENGRUSH

The "dont change my class setup (which is arguably the strongest in current meta) because you are greedy" argument continues.

Honestly thought this was trolling at first but it looks like this may be legit.

eventide03b14a_ESO

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The "dont change my class setup (which is arguably the strongest in current meta) because you are greedy" argument continues.

Honestly thought this was trolling at first but it looks like this may be legit.

I'm glad to see you're finally getting it.

FENGRUSH

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The "dont change my class setup (which is arguably the strongest in current meta) because you are greedy" argument continues.

Honestly thought this was trolling at first but it looks like this may be legit.

I'm glad to see you're finally getting it.

That you dont want your strongest class setup nerfed by handling the stam side of the class which can/should be kept more or less entirely seperate? Yea, I get that.

Magicka sorcs primary strength lies in the fact that they can endlessly spam shields. Making changes to stam doesnt impact that at all. But complaining in a stam sorc thread that you dont want magicka sorcs nerfed because you cant manage yourself in the game without playing a FOTM setup is pretty shameful and solidifies the fact that your opinion is the most irrelevant of anyone in this thread.

Xael

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The "dont change my class setup (which is arguably the strongest in current meta) because you are greedy" argument continues.

Honestly thought this was trolling at first but it looks like this may be legit.

I'm glad to see you're finally getting it.

That you dont want your strongest class setup nerfed by handling the stam side of the class which can/should be kept more or less entirely seperate? Yea, I get that.

Magicka sorcs primary strength lies in the fact that they can endlessly spam shields. Making changes to stam doesnt impact that at all. But complaining in a stam sorc thread that you dont want magicka sorcs nerfed because you cant manage yourself in the game without playing a FOTM setup is pretty shameful and solidifies the fact that your opinion is the most irrelevant of anyone in this thread.

As long as they learn how to properly change a class without hamfists and gutting something on the other side of the spectrum there should be no cause for concern.

This dude being a protectionist over the same class we play pigeonholing us doesn't really help matters. Mobility already got nerfed and it had nothing to do with Stam guy. Ease up on your grip.

Emma_Overload

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Absolute MUSTS for stamina sorc are some love for our passives so they help stamina builds as well and at least one ability that does damage and can be used regularly. I don't care if it is our primary spammable attack or a secondary (like Crystal Frag) that become the stamina morph, but we need SOMETHING that I have to use regularly.

Mages Wrath and Crystal Blast are 2 skills we could use a Stamina morph for. Also allow our passives to synergize with Stamina and we would be fine. This is something simple and easy to do. Those 2 morphs are very seldom used in both the pve and pvp world.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Seldom is an understatement. They are virtually pointless currently. Magicka return on death? Seriously? And the AoE on the crystal blast is not nearly strong enough to justify the casting time.

Crystal Blast is one of the best AOE spells in the game. I get 3700 AOE on my tooltip when Impulse only shows 3000. The cast time for Crystal Shards/Frags/Blast has only been 1 second for months now. You can spam it just as fast as Impulse if you know what you are doing.

This spell you call "virtually pointless" is the same one I use to solo tough content like Veteran Banished Cells:



It's getting on my nerves that people are trying to ruin Crystal Blast when what Stamina Sorcs REALLY need is a morph for Conjured Ward that scales off stamina. The only physical weapon line that doesn't ALREADY have a a great damage spell is Sword & Board, which is going to be useless now anyway because of the blocking nerf.

Erock25

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Absolute MUSTS for stamina sorc are some love for our passives so they help stamina builds as well and at least one ability that does damage and can be used regularly. I don't care if it is our primary spammable attack or a secondary (like Crystal Frag) that become the stamina morph, but we need SOMETHING that I have to use regularly.

Mages Wrath and Crystal Blast are 2 skills we could use a Stamina morph for. Also allow our passives to synergize with Stamina and we would be fine. This is something simple and easy to do. Those 2 morphs are very seldom used in both the pve and pvp world.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Seldom is an understatement. They are virtually pointless currently. Magicka return on death? Seriously? And the AoE on the crystal blast is not nearly strong enough to justify the casting time.

Crystal Blast is one of the best AOE spells in the game. I get 3700 AOE on my tooltip when Impulse only shows 3000. The cast time for Crystal Shards/Frags/Blast has only been 1 second for months now. You can spam it just as fast as Impulse if you know what you are doing.

This spell you call "virtually pointless" is the same one I use to solo tough content like Veteran Banished Cells:



It's really getting on my nerves that people are trying to ruin Crystal Blast when what Stamina Sorcs REALLY need is a morph for Conjured Ward that scales off stamina. The only physical weapon line that doesn't ALREADY have a a great damage spell is Sword & Board, which is going to be useless now anyway because of the blocking nerf.

You have been the lone voice sticking up for Crystal Blast since forever. Crystal Frag's damage increase and proc mechanic is vital to competitive single target damage and it is probably one of the most lopsided morph choices in the entire game. I'm sorry but personally I feel you should just take one for the team considering there are a lot more people wanting to play stamina sorc out there than people who want to use Crystal Blast.

Dyride

Completely agree with OP.

Thundering Presence is completely underwhelming for damage. If it ticked every 0.5 seconds, then maybe 1K dps would be worth it with extra chances for Disintegration but I will still be using Boundless Storm for half the damage and speed boost.

Also while the new animation for Dark Exchange is slightly better for mobility, it returns less resources/time than live currently. The resource return doesn't proc until after the animation cooldown from the 1 sec channel. This means 1.7 secs roughly between when you cast to when you receive the health and stamina.

In Live, I usually only let Dark Exchange run 2 secs and then block cancel it anyways.

Dyride

The changes to Surge are useful, but considering that Rapid Strikes counts as a DoT, I don't know how useful it will be beyond 2H builds.

Xael

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Crystal Blast is one of the best AOE spells in the game.

No, it's not. GTAoE and PBAoE will always outperform a hardcasted off target prox aoe.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The cast time for Crystal Shards/Frags/Blast has only been 1 second for months now. You can spam it just as fast as Impulse if you know what you are doing.

No you can't. Not even close.

OGLezard

Erock25 wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

Bravo dude. Very well thought out. Stamina damage, stamina management, stamina utility skills. And balanced. This is what we want.

I also like the list besides Daedric Curse scaling on stamina/weapon dmg but still costing magicka and Crit Surge costing stamina (magicka dumps that have no scaling component are welcomed).

sorry but no......shields that are conjured from using stamina........I stopped reading after that. Stamina can already cast healing on themselves...if you wanted magicka abilities then play magicka. I am sure everything else is good points and in fact the first passives you mention I agree with. Just NO to anythign magic related being able to be cast from using stamina....just.....makes NO sense.......I was against vigor.....healing with stamina lol thats so silly

OGLezard

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Crystal Blast is one of the best AOE spells in the game.

No, it's not. GTAoE and PBAoE will always outperform a hardcasted off target prox aoe.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The cast time for Crystal Shards/Frags/Blast has only been 1 second for months now. You can spam it just as fast as Impulse if you know what you are doing.

No you can't. Not even close.

@Xael wrong...... look at wall of elements....hold block and get hit for.......FIFTY damage WOOOO!!!!!!!!! liquid lightning.....thats 200-300 damage every half second...... I think what you meant to say, and this is so messed up, is PBAOE will always be the best. GTAOE are just junk in this game UNLESS you are using caltrops.....and THAT is confusing as well.

EDIT: This is with the new damage nerf in pvp. Even on live GTAOE aside from caltrops are just stupid. PBAOE are still the best in the game and will remain that way...much like daggers give more spell damage than a staff......no sense i swear

Xael

OGLezard wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Crystal Blast is one of the best AOE spells in the game.

No, it's not. GTAoE and PBAoE will always outperform a hardcasted off target prox aoe.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The cast time for Crystal Shards/Frags/Blast has only been 1 second for months now. You can spam it just as fast as Impulse if you know what you are doing.

No you can't. Not even close.

@Xael wrong...... look at wall of elements....hold block and get hit for.......FIFTY damage WOOOO!!!!!!!!! liquid lightning.....thats 200-300 damage every half second...... I think what you meant to say, and this is so messed up, is PBAOE will always be the best. GTAOE are just junk in this game UNLESS you are using caltrops.....and THAT is confusing as well.

EDIT: This is with the new damage nerf in pvp. Even on live GTAOE aside from caltrops are just stupid. PBAOE are still the best in the game and will remain that way...much like daggers give more spell damage than a staff......no sense i swear

I have no idea wtf you are trying to do or say...

You quote me and tell me I am wrong. Yet you mention nothing about Crystal Blast which is what this discussion is about. I don't use (nor did I mention or allude to) Wall of Elements and I certainly am not taking blocking, dodging, nirnhoned, resist buffs into consideration. In other words whether someone blocks a spell I did not mention is completely irrelevant. Try and stay on topic.

GTAoE is not "junk" and my LL does more damage than that. Also for a very long time (a year or so) LL has procced MotG, something it should not have done. It also procs other things like Camo/Evil Hunter and Valk Skoria. So no, not junk. I am not denying PBAoE is the best, it's the easiest most skill-less way of doing aoe dmg. You don't need aiming, timing, just mash a key. Yay. By the way, swords give more damage than daggers, particularly if you have 2 points in twin blade and blunt.

Erock25

OGLezard wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

Bravo dude. Very well thought out. Stamina damage, stamina management, stamina utility skills. And balanced. This is what we want.

I also like the list besides Daedric Curse scaling on stamina/weapon dmg but still costing magicka and Crit Surge costing stamina (magicka dumps that have no scaling component are welcomed).

sorry but no......shields that are conjured from using stamina........I stopped reading after that. Stamina can already cast healing on themselves...if you wanted magicka abilities then play magicka. I am sure everything else is good points and in fact the first passives you mention I agree with. Just NO to anythign magic related being able to be cast from using stamina....just.....makes NO sense.......I was against vigor.....healing with stamina lol thats so silly

I have no problem with Empowered Ward costing stamina, but it should not scale with stamina. There are already plenty of magical type things that cost stamina so looking at it from that perspective does not bother me at all. I like that they changed the other morph of Ward and gave the missing pet dmg to Daedric Prey, but they should have changed it to a shield that scales on health. Maybe something like a 11k shield with 30k HP to a 8k shield with 20k HP (shielding values proposed there are relative to current Cyrodiil shielding values on the live server).