Why does Stamina Sorc still not have a stamina attack??

Erock25

So the Stamina Sorc has Thundering Presence now as a stamina morph. I still have zero Sorc abilities that I have to use regularly. Thundering Presence has a 20s duration and is a fire and forget deal AND not to mention stamina Sorc were already using Boundless Storm for the speed buff and PVP stam sorcs may still use Boundless over Thundering for the speed buff.

Come on ZOS, change Crystal Blast to some kind of stamina morph where we actually have to use our Sorc abilities more than every 20-30 seconds.

Verrask

Agreed. I run a Khajiit Stamina Sorcerer and I'm almost ecstatic about the proposed changes. Would be nice to get some flex like nightblades, templars and dragonknights have.

Xael

Erock25 wrote: »

So the Stamina Sorc has Thundering Presence now as a stamina morph. I still have zero Sorc abilities that I have to use regularly. Thundering Presence has a 20s duration and is a fire and forget deal AND not to mention stamina Sorc were already using Boundless Storm for the speed buff and PVP stam sorcs may still use Boundless over Thundering for the speed buff.

Come on ZOS, change Crystal Blast to some kind of stamina morph where we actually have to use our Sorc abilities more than every 20-30 seconds.

@Erock25 I could not agree more. This is VERY disappointing. I am happy though they did not screw up Boundless Storm. But come on, this hardly what Stam Sorcs needed, let alone asked for. We are still the most subpar Stamina build in the game.

CP5

I can't say this was a surprise. They had since February to address our concerns and didn't post anything here, so it makes sense that they missed that little, detail. The deadric summoning skill tree is still almost exclusively a magicka build tree, storm calling and dark magic skills are to expensive and weak to use off of a magicka build, I just hope the change to dark deal is worth mentioning...

Come on @Zos, please? Something?

Erock25

Absolute MUSTS for stamina sorc are some love for our passives so they help stamina builds as well and at least one ability that does damage and can be used regularly. I don't care if it is our primary spammable attack or a secondary (like Crystal Frag) that become the stamina morph, but we need SOMETHING that I have to use regularly.

CP5

Well we have the toggle bound armor from daedric summoning, then dark deal (want to see how that works now) from dark magic, and now the occasionally cast lightning form from storm calling. Seems they intend sorcs to use fire and forget skills from their class.

Xael

Erock25 wrote: »

Absolute MUSTS for stamina sorc are some love for our passives so they help stamina builds as well and at least one ability that does damage and can be used regularly. I don't care if it is our primary spammable attack or a secondary (like Crystal Frag) that become the stamina morph, but we need SOMETHING that I have to use regularly.

Mages Wrath and Crystal Blast are 2 skills we could use a Stamina morph for. Also allow our passives to synergize with Stamina and we would be fine. This is something simple and easy to do. Those 2 morphs are very seldom used in both the pve and pvp world.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

exiledtyrant

None of the changes actually look build defining. I will reserve judgement till I get hands one experience with it though. I am fine with hands off if it actually meshes. Even if the skills do some how pull together with the current changes the passives at the very least could use a going over. Hoping dark exchange looks bad ass.

CP5

exiledtyrant wrote: »

None of the changes actually look build defining. I will reserve judgement till I get hands one experience with it though. I am fine with hands off if it actually meshes. Even if the skills do some how pull together with the current changes the passives at the very least could use a going over. Hoping dark exchange looks bad ass.

Unless it was changed to having you wave a "Hit Me" sign above your head, but with luck it'll be interesting. In all honesty sorcs have a lot of skills that have very clear visuals on when to interrupt them or stop them. The buffed the size of overload light attacks for whatever reason, and where is that picture of crystal frags?

EDIT: Found it

Erock25

exiledtyrant wrote: »

None of the changes actually look build defining. I will reserve judgement till I get hands one experience with it though. I am fine with hands off if it actually meshes. Even if the skills do some how pull together with the current changes the passives at the very least could use a going over. Hoping dark exchange looks bad ass.

I do not doubt that Thundering Presence will be nice for PVE DPS, but as you said, nothing is build defining. My biggest gripe with stamina sorc is I feel like I am playing a class neutral weapon spec and could you guess which was the one Sorc ability that I already used in any stamina spec regardless of PVE or PVP???? Boundless Storm. Basically, they altered the one skill that was already in use, thus giving us nothing.

exiledtyrant

Erock25 wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

None of the changes actually look build defining. I will reserve judgement till I get hands one experience with it though. I am fine with hands off if it actually meshes. Even if the skills do some how pull together with the current changes the passives at the very least could use a going over. Hoping dark exchange looks bad ass.

I do not doubt that Thundering Presence will be nice for PVE DPS, but as you said, nothing is build defining. My biggest gripe with stamina sorc is I feel like I am playing a class neutral weapon spec and could you guess which was the one Sorc ability that I already used in any stamina spec regardless of PVE or PVP???? Boundless Storm. Basically, they altered the one skill that was already in use, thus giving us nothing.

The generic fighter feel is the absolute worst. Hopefully the changes help to erode that feeling.

Dracane

CP5 wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

None of the changes actually look build defining. I will reserve judgement till I get hands one experience with it though. I am fine with hands off if it actually meshes. Even if the skills do some how pull together with the current changes the passives at the very least could use a going over. Hoping dark exchange looks bad ass.

Unless it was changed to having you wave a "Hit Me" sign above your head, but with luck it'll be interesting. In all honesty sorcs have a lot of skills that have very clear visuals on when to interrupt them or stop them. The buffed the size of overload light attacks for whatever reason, and where is that picture of crystal frags?

EDIT: Found it

What does that mean exactly ?
I saw the thing with Overload light attacks. But don't understand what it means. Is the lightning bolt now even bigger and easier to see ?

Faulgor

Thundering Presence makes absolutely no sense as a stamina morph, but oh well.

Should have changed Crystal Blast to Poison Blast, a stamina morph with poison damage. Remove cast time and make it melee range, or something.
Would also be neat to be able to use pets as a stamina build. I don't see why they would only use magicka/spell crit for scaling and not the highest stat like so many other skills now.

FENGRUSH

Yea it would be great to get a reply but the last 6 months really hasnt shown any interest in giving replies.


It is abundantly apparent there is nobody at @ZOS who is involved in balance has ever played or put much consideration to what a stam sorc does. Would welcome a friendly debate on the issue, the last time FENGRUSH tried He received a warning for it.

Sorry for caring ZOS.

Xael

Agreed.

Changing Crystal Blast to a ranged Stamina Morph and making passives synergize with Stamina builds is the only thing most Stam Sorcs have asked for. We have plenty of generic melee stam abilities from weapons, Boundless Storm is fine and we need something to spend our magicka on anyway.

Erock25

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do still have plans to make stamina-based Sorcerer builds more competitive. That said, it’s going to take some time to make comprehensive changes that are balanced, fully tested (both internally and on the PTS), and also include appropriate visual effects. We’re currently keeping an eye on data since Update 6 was published, and have some ideas on what we’d like to pursue. What would you all like to see to make stamina Sorcs a more viable build to use?

Quote from Gina around February in one of my many stamina sorc topics. It is ridiculous to go back to my post history and see all the suggestions and topics i have created and participated in talking about Stamina Sorc and not one single freaking time was it brought up by anyone to change a morph of Lightning Form. @ZOS_GinaBruno I'm not sure if you remember me from last round on PTS where you were the one reaching out to all of the players with Stam Sorc concerns, but Eric Wrobel does not have a grasp of what this class needs or wants. Please headbutt him with much gusto and inform him of what the people actually want.

- Sorc passives that actually help stamina users
- Active Sorc gameplay in a stamina build. Using a buff every 20 seconds is not fun. I feel like I am playing a class neutral weapon spec. There needs to be some kind of damaging stamina attack that is used in proper rotations.

It isn't much to ask and we've been asking for it for months on end. PVP stam sorcs will still use Boundless Storm over Thundering Presence by the way!

FENGRUSH

Erock25 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do still have plans to make stamina-based Sorcerer builds more competitive. That said, it’s going to take some time to make comprehensive changes that are balanced, fully tested (both internally and on the PTS), and also include appropriate visual effects. We’re currently keeping an eye on data since Update 6 was published, and have some ideas on what we’d like to pursue. What would you all like to see to make stamina Sorcs a more viable build to use?

Quote from Gina around February in one of my many stamina sorc topics. It is ridiculous to go back to my post history and see all the suggestions and topics i have created and participated in talking about Stamina Sorc and not one single freaking time was it brought up by anyone to change a morph of Lightning Form. @ZOS_GinaBruno I'm not sure if you remember me from last round on PTS where you were the one reaching out to all of the players with Stam Sorc concerns, but Eric Wrobel does not have a grasp of what this class needs or wants. Please headbutt him with much gusto and inform him of what the people actually want.

- Sorc passives that actually help stamina users
- Active Sorc gameplay in a stamina build. Using a buff every 20 seconds is not fun. I feel like I am playing a class neutral weapon spec. There needs to be some kind of damaging stamina attack that is used in proper rotations.

It isn't much to ask and we've been asking for it for months on end. PVP stam sorcs will still use Boundless Storm over Thundering Presence by the way!

Haha yea I remember this - was going to quote the same thing but like I said, I get suspended on my next warning so I can only indirectly discuss these issues at this point.

Honestly, Im happier with the current way stam sorc is than what is going to be in place. Theres a lot of stam nerfs coming in, although they arent overwhelming, theyre extremely relevant and impact all classes. But when weighing the options between going magicka and stam sorc, theyve only made the option even more 1 sided than it currently is now.

Like you said, were completely dependent upon weapon skills to do ANYTHING. My one skill bar has 4 2 hander skills and 1 sorc skill, the other bar has 1 sorc skill. 0 sorc ults. 2 sorc skills out of 12? And what passives?

CP5

Dracane wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

None of the changes actually look build defining. I will reserve judgement till I get hands one experience with it though. I am fine with hands off if it actually meshes. Even if the skills do some how pull together with the current changes the passives at the very least could use a going over. Hoping dark exchange looks bad ass.

Unless it was changed to having you wave a "Hit Me" sign above your head, but with luck it'll be interesting. In all honesty sorcs have a lot of skills that have very clear visuals on when to interrupt them or stop them. The buffed the size of overload light attacks for whatever reason, and where is that picture of crystal frags?

EDIT: Found it

What does that mean exactly ?
I saw the thing with Overload light attacks. But don't understand what it means. Is the lightning bolt now even bigger and easier to see ?

That's what I got out of it. Gotta give everyone a clear sign when to ready their reflects and all.

OtarTheMad

While I feel your pain about trying to make stamina sorc work I also think that ZOS shouldn't have to make Sorcs with the most stamina morphs just to make it work.

CP5

OtarTheMad wrote: »

While I feel your pain about trying to make stamina sorc work I also think that ZOS shouldn't have to make Sorcs with the most stamina morphs just to make it work.

They shouldn't, it could be as easy as making more of the skills flexible and more of the passives applicable for things outside of pure casters. I want to use my class defining skills on my stamina sorc stamina morph or not, but zos hasn't put much out to allow me to do that.

Erock25

OtarTheMad wrote: »

While I feel your pain about trying to make stamina sorc work I also think that ZOS shouldn't have to make Sorcs with the most stamina morphs just to make it work.

Most?

We have Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, and now Thundering Presence. One toggle, one 20s buff, and one previously useless but maybe sorta kinda now useful heal/stam restore tool. There needs to be some sort of attack, whether it is direct damage or dot damage or whatever ... we need something to use more frequently.

Armann

If they can't give us Crystal Blast stam morph, how about buffing Bound Armaments to apply a % weapon damage increase instead of just buffing heavy attacks?

Stikato

Stamina sorc since 1.5

Absolutely agree with this thread. Stam Sorc's weakness is not lack of class utility. Frankly, utility isn't perfect either, but there are a least a couple options for magicka dumps within the class skills. Steak in particular.

Stam sorc weakness is due to lack of CLASS -BASED STAMINA DAMAGE. This is not a difficult concept to grasp. Stop making Stam utility morphs, and give us some freaking damage.

Xael

Armann wrote: »

If they can't give us Crystal Blast stam morph, how about buffing Bound Armaments to apply a % weapon damage increase instead of just buffing heavy attacks?

While I like your idea over the current incarnation of BA, I don't want another passive change.
This class as Stamina feels extremely FLAT. We need a "go-to" skill like a ranged Stamina morph of Crystal Blast, only setup like the frag morph so we can proc it or hardcast. Hell, make the Daedric Curse morph NOBODY uses a stam skill. We have options that are being completely ignored.

CP5

Xael wrote: »

Armann wrote: »

If they can't give us Crystal Blast stam morph, how about buffing Bound Armaments to apply a % weapon damage increase instead of just buffing heavy attacks?

While I like your idea over the current incarnation of BA, I don't want another passive change.
This class as Stamina feels extremely FLAT. We need a "go-to" skill like a ranged Stamina morph of Crystal Blast, only setup like the frag morph so we can proc it or hardcast. Hell, make the Daedric Curse morph NOBODY uses a stam skill. We have options that are being completely ignored.

But that morph is for the pets. You've gotta think of the pets since they are almost half of one of our skill trees. Honestly could the devs at least make pets scale off of magicka or stamina, so that we can kinda use one of our three skill trees with some degree of hope?

FENGRUSH

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.


Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.


This is absolutely awful.

Xael

CP5 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Armann wrote: »

If they can't give us Crystal Blast stam morph, how about buffing Bound Armaments to apply a % weapon damage increase instead of just buffing heavy attacks?

While I like your idea over the current incarnation of BA, I don't want another passive change.
This class as Stamina feels extremely FLAT. We need a "go-to" skill like a ranged Stamina morph of Crystal Blast, only setup like the frag morph so we can proc it or hardcast. Hell, make the Daedric Curse morph NOBODY uses a stam skill. We have options that are being completely ignored.

But that morph is for the pets. You've gotta think of the pets since they are almost half of one of our skill trees. Honestly could the devs at least make pets scale off of magicka or stamina, so that we can kinda use one of our three skill trees with some degree of hope?

Oh crap, I forgot about pet builds though I never see them in PvP save one silly guy that gets blown to smithereens when people see him coming a mile away Fair enough, that would be a kick to the balls to pet users, I retract my previous statement regarding curse

CP5

Xael wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Armann wrote: »

If they can't give us Crystal Blast stam morph, how about buffing Bound Armaments to apply a % weapon damage increase instead of just buffing heavy attacks?

While I like your idea over the current incarnation of BA, I don't want another passive change.
This class as Stamina feels extremely FLAT. We need a "go-to" skill like a ranged Stamina morph of Crystal Blast, only setup like the frag morph so we can proc it or hardcast. Hell, make the Daedric Curse morph NOBODY uses a stam skill. We have options that are being completely ignored.

But that morph is for the pets. You've gotta think of the pets since they are almost half of one of our skill trees. Honestly could the devs at least make pets scale off of magicka or stamina, so that we can kinda use one of our three skill trees with some degree of hope?

Oh crap, I forgot about pet builds though I never see them in PvP save one silly guy that gets blown to smithereens when people see him coming a mile away Fair enough, that would be a kick to the balls to pet users, I retract my previous statement regarding curse

Well they offloaded the empowered ward buff onto it so now that curse is the only way to give pets more damage (55% more as opposed to 20%) and if thats their only remaining option I would rather it stay there then have zos try to move the pet buff elsewhere.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

So the Stamina Sorc has Thundering Presence now as a stamina morph. I still have zero Sorc abilities that I have to use regularly. Thundering Presence has a 20s duration and is a fire and forget deal AND not to mention stamina Sorc were already using Boundless Storm for the speed buff and PVP stam sorcs may still use Boundless over Thundering for the speed buff.

Come on ZOS, change Crystal Blast to some kind of stamina morph where we actually have to use our Sorc abilities more than every 20-30 seconds.

I'm happy with the changes. I didn't use thundering presence anyway.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Absolute MUSTS for stamina sorc are some love for our passives so they help stamina builds as well and at least one ability that does damage and can be used regularly. I don't care if it is our primary spammable attack or a secondary (like Crystal Frag) that become the stamina morph, but we need SOMETHING that I have to use regularly.

Mages Wrath and Crystal Blast are 2 skills we could use a Stamina morph for. Also allow our passives to synergize with Stamina and we would be fine. This is something simple and easy to do. Those 2 morphs are very seldom used in both the pve and pvp world.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Seldom is an understatement. They are virtually pointless currently. Magicka return on death? Seriously? And the AoE on the crystal blast is not nearly strong enough to justify the casting time.

Erock25

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.


Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.


This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.