Why does Stamina Sorc still not have a stamina attack??

Cathexis

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.


Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.


This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.


Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.



Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.


This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

Wow Fengrush. I really respect you for managing to answer to such posts with such composure. I am sure if I tried to answer his two previous posts I would get a forum infraction for the simple fact that these posts are not trolling which makes it even worse......

I'm sick of people making a sorcerer and then complaining that it's only good with magic. Yet I'm the one accused of trolling. Too funny.

Get. Out. Of. This. Thread......Now. This is a discussion on stamina sorcs. Unless you have something useful to contribute.

This is the second thread on stam sorcs that @eventide03b14a_ESO has been asked to leave

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2079268/#Comment_2079268

I think its ironic that you are saying were the ones who haven't learned

Players should have the option of playing stamina sorcs. A way of play that should be viable.

Not only that, but you don't even acknowledge the arguments that most stam sorcs are making, that we don't want to harm magicka builds, and that we want to find functional compromises.

If you are going to bring nothing valuable to the conversation, please stop trolling these threads. It is hard for anyone in this thread to take your opinions seriously when you degrade into a one sided perspective that your way of play is the only valuable way of play and no one else's style should be accepted. It's people like you, who want this game to be isolated to cookie cutter builds that ruin it. You know nothing about the essence of elder scrolls games, and you corrode its foundation when you troll here.

Change WILL be coming for stamina sorcs, which has be acknowledged time and time again in stamina sorc related threads, and you have done nothing but come in and hinder any kind of positive progress and any kind of serious feedback at a time when stamina sorcs are suffering further deficits in the coming patch. You would think, with the number of seriously concerned threads and replies, that by now you would recognize that stamina sorcs aren't just "some minority of players" and to add to that that maybe, just maybe you might be wrong to discriminate against "some minority of players" even if that's what we were (which we aren't).

I guess I just don't understand why you can't be happy with one of the strongest classes in the game. If you think they are just going to add a bunch of stamina passives, thus making even the magicka builds even more powerful without taking something, then it only shows how naive you are.

@eventide03b14a_ESO I don't know if you noticed but they're nerfing sorcs *** left and right. Get out of your own ego for a second, you might realize you're on a sinking ship.

Also as someone who plays a magicka sorcs and refuses to acknowledge stam sorcs, you have no right to make suggestions about what we need. Leather armor definitely does not provide enough defensive benefit, especially when mace bugs can entirely negate armor. With more limited mobility, and many of our offensive skills based in close range combat abilities we need shields more and not less. Especially with the hammer coming down hard on mobility in the coming patch.

I can tell you from experience at VR14 with a stam sorc that to stay competitive I'm forced into a block build with double sword/board to 1vX (with very inconsistent results), and it is a poor supplement for being able to actually able to absorb damage. To go toe to toe with other classes, all the damage I take drains my stamina pool. The alternative is to be an entirely glass cannon and use snipe or wrecking blow on switch. We get no in between (and its going to get worse with the new block nerf).

Step out of your cooshy magicka sorc bubble and play the class before you start making decisions about what we need and don't need.

My $15 a month gives me just as much right as you do. What do you really want anyway? Clearly not satisfied playing the class to it's strengths you want them to completely readjust it to your ridiculous criteria of what you think it should be. Sure take some morphs and have them work with weapon damage or max stamina, but you're honestly just getting greedy. No other class has shields based off of stamina. You're insane to think that they would even agree to such a proposal.

Cathexis wrote: »

@Erock25 don't forget they also stealth nerfed overload so that you couldn't use weapon based attack moves in overload anymore (which did cancel your overload bar).

Why should you ever have been able to? Is 10k+ each light attack not enough?

No, it doesn't give you the right to. You, yourself, in the same reply, acknowledge you don't play the class how its "not supposed to be played." YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW TO PLAY A STAMINA SORC, THEREFOR YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT CHANGES STAMINA SORCS NEED. No other class has shields based off magicka either. You are just pulling bs arguments out of your butt. The criteria I'm proposing is hardly ridiculous -- it simply makes stamina sorcs as durable as magicka sorcs so we can use one defensive skill instead of being pigeonholed into sword and board and 4 defensive abilities.

Also if you knew anything about overload or even finished reading my post, you would see that using those abilities cancelled your overload bar, meaning you can't spam those abilities and have overload active.

Personally, I don't think you even play a sorc, I'm starting to think your just one of those nerf bolt escape trolls who's too afraid to actually fight sorcs.

dsalter

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

surge had a duration boost and cost reduction so doesnt really need a stam cost, since it's a buff anyways and not something we'd spam but the rest are decent and very welcome additions, hell some of them are ones i pointed out in the other thread so i'm glad people have common insight of what we need

Cathexis

I'd love a stamina daedric tomb...Before 1.6 I always dreamed of stacking it with a 2 hand charge but I could never find a balance...

Zsymon

Erock25 wrote: »

Come on ZOS, change Crystal Blast to some kind of stamina morph where we actually have to use our Sorc abilities more than every 20-30 seconds.

Hell no, Crystal Blast is the most important skill in many PvE builds. Crystal Blast is one of the best magicka AoE abilities in the game, it does a ton of AoE damage with a very wide radius, a lot of people rely on this in PvE.

They can't change the entire game around to what some stamina PvP'ers want.

There are far better options than ruining other builds to serve your own.

Domander

"high damage stamina morph"

....

Cathexis

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202432/major-bug-certain-abilities-get-pvp-penalty-twice-and-become-useless#latest

Apparently skills that heal and deal damage received a double damage nerf. It is unknown whether this affects surge.

Emma_Overload

Erock25 wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

Bravo dude. Very well thought out. Stamina damage, stamina management, stamina utility skills. And balanced. This is what we want.

I also like the list besides Daedric Curse scaling on stamina/weapon dmg but still costing magicka and Crit Surge costing stamina (magicka dumps that have no scaling component are welcomed).

sorry but no......shields that are conjured from using stamina........I stopped reading after that. Stamina can already cast healing on themselves...if you wanted magicka abilities then play magicka. I am sure everything else is good points and in fact the first passives you mention I agree with. Just NO to anythign magic related being able to be cast from using stamina....just.....makes NO sense.......I was against vigor.....healing with stamina lol thats so silly

I have no problem with Empowered Ward costing stamina, but it should not scale with stamina. There are already plenty of magical type things that cost stamina so looking at it from that perspective does not bother me at all. I like that they changed the other morph of Ward and gave the missing pet dmg to Daedric Prey, but they should have changed it to a shield that scales on health. Maybe something like a 11k shield with 30k HP to a 8k shield with 20k HP (shielding values proposed there are relative to current Cyrodiil shielding values on the live server).

That's still too small. A Stamina Sorc with typically small Magicka base has a puny 6K shield, now... 8K is no big improvement and won't take you anywhere near what you need for hardcore PvE. 11K at 30K HP would be fine for tanks, but Stamina DPS Sorcs are really going to need something that scales with their main resource.

On the other hand, maybe Sorc tanks deserve the love more... I don't know.

Erock25

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Hehe - here is an ironic thread from the troll in this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159023/are-there-currenty-any-viable-stamina-builds-for-sorcerers#latest

Yes @eventide03b14a_ESO , there is viability there. All this talk and slamming on stam sorc though - you should be able to take my stam sorc out pretty easily in a 1v1 right? The cards are certainly stacked in your favor.

I'm getting tired of a small group of players wanting to change one of the best balanced classes because it doesn't suit your playstyle and not giving one crap how it might effect the rest of us who enjoy the class the way it is. Whiny, selfish, entitled brats. That's the way you appear to me.

If that you saying youre not up for the challenge to show off your well balanced shield stacking build you picked up off one of the 5 great sorc players posting magicka sorc videos with the same conformed builds? Color me shocked.

It is enough to justify your opinion being devalued on the topic - aside from the fact that youre upset that you cant play a stam sorc and dont want the class setup to have any place in the game. Ive played magicka sorc extensively through over a year of beta and into release. Plenty of players like yourself looked at my build and playstyle and ran with it. Youre not providing any constructive criticism in this topic other than saying (ironically) "its selfish for other players to want buffs because it might in some way indirectly impact my playstyle! (that I had to copy entirely from other players)"

Here's the not-viable stam sorc 1v1ing a shield stacking sorc with a non-1v1 build, but my open world windriding build!

We can pretend you might be this good and would end up dead all the same despite the fact that magicka sorc and the way shields function are not entirely balanced in pvp.

http://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/v/8956158

What I am telling you is that you are complaining about a class that is essentially perfect the way it is and you want to change it because....? What you're going to do it cause them to break it for magicka and probably not even satisfy whatever vision you have for your perfect stamina build and then everyone can be miserable. If there is some alternative to that I'd love to hear it, because I just don't see how you can complain about the class as it is.

FENGRUSH doesn't want to break the class, he isn't even asking for much honestly. The Sorc class could easily be made better for Stamina without even bothering our magic builds. I'll lay it out for you:

1. Expert Mage also increases Weapon Damage as well as Spell damage for each class ability slotted.
2. Capacitor Passive increases both stamina and magicka regen
3. Rebate Passive also restores Stamina and Magic when a Daedric Pet or Atronach is unsummoned or dies.
4. Empowered Ward costs Stamina and Scales its Value from Stamina. (Now that Empowered Ward no longer benefits pets this makes sense)
5. Daedric Summons damage and crit rating is based off either max magic or max stamina whichever is higher.
6. Energy Overload to also restore stamina as well as magicka.
7. Both morphs of Lighting Form offer the Speed Bonus both have Thundering Presences currently longer duration, one cast magic and the speed bonus lasts longer, one costs stamina and has increased damage.
8. Bound Armaments increases max stamina and weapon damage instead of just heavy attack damage
9. Bound Aegis also gives Spell Damage to make them even for both.
10. Crystal Blast is turned into a stamina morph that is instant cast, does 35% less damage then Crystal Frags, and stuns the target for 3 secs and has a 10 meter range.
11. Daedric Tomb is turned into a Stamina Morph. (Since every Magic Sorc uses Daedric Mine field anyways)
12 Daedric Protection Increases both health and stamina recovery by 5% instead of just 10% health recovery.
13. Daedric Curse scales its damage off weapon damage and max stamina or spell damage and max magic whichever is higher. Both stay as costing magic to cast since Stamina users can use it as a magic dump, and magick Sorcs can do what they have always done with Curse.
14. Exploitation passive also adds Minor Savagery as well as Minor Prophecy to give both spell and weapon crit.
15. Critical Surge costs stamina instead of magicka.[/b]

These are all things that could easily be changed that wouldn't effect magic builds at all. It would also give the Sorc some passives and synergy with stamina based weapons and builds while also not making the majority of their class skills useless and giving them viable passives to use stamina based weapons instead of a staff.

Bravo dude. Very well thought out. Stamina damage, stamina management, stamina utility skills. And balanced. This is what we want.

I also like the list besides Daedric Curse scaling on stamina/weapon dmg but still costing magicka and Crit Surge costing stamina (magicka dumps that have no scaling component are welcomed).

sorry but no......shields that are conjured from using stamina........I stopped reading after that. Stamina can already cast healing on themselves...if you wanted magicka abilities then play magicka. I am sure everything else is good points and in fact the first passives you mention I agree with. Just NO to anythign magic related being able to be cast from using stamina....just.....makes NO sense.......I was against vigor.....healing with stamina lol thats so silly

I have no problem with Empowered Ward costing stamina, but it should not scale with stamina. There are already plenty of magical type things that cost stamina so looking at it from that perspective does not bother me at all. I like that they changed the other morph of Ward and gave the missing pet dmg to Daedric Prey, but they should have changed it to a shield that scales on health. Maybe something like a 11k shield with 30k HP to a 8k shield with 20k HP (shielding values proposed there are relative to current Cyrodiil shielding values on the live server).

That's still too small. A Stamina Sorc with typically small Magicka base has a puny 6K shield, now... 8K is no big improvement and won't take you anywhere near what you need for hardcore PvE. 11K at 30K HP would be fine for tanks, but Stamina DPS Sorcs are really going to need something that scales with their main resource.

On the other hand, maybe Sorc tanks deserve the love more... I don't know.

What is hardcore PVE?? Because you can do VDSA and all the trials just fine with no damage shield at all.

SturgeHammer

It's just unfathomable to me that Months of discussions went completely ignored. I would guess that everyone remotely interested in Stam Sorc has weighed in at some point, and somehow, all of that feedback was met with two lack luster changes. We never asked for a lot. Most didn't even ask for any existing skills to be changed, just passives.

I can understand not getting any Stam Based attacks, it requires a lot of attention from animation, audio, etc., but passives? Not a single passive change? Come on ZOS, this seems like the first place to start.

On top of that, current Stam Sorcs are getting nerfed simply as collateral damage from nerfs to other builds. Make this right ZOS.

(Full Transparecy: I did ask for some existing skills to be changed, like surge, to something more useful to Stam Sorcs. It should be the Signature Stam Sorc ability)

FENGRUSH

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Please at least post a /lurk or something for starters.

More specifically, if its of any interest/on the table to consider further changes or open a debate on it. Because the arguments in this thread are pretty clear and undeniable. Everyones trying to keep a cool head in this thread despite a lot of frustration on lack of changes that we were told were coming.

Bfish22090

Stop trying to ruin my magicka sorc with your stamina hoopla

GreyRanger

FENGRUSH wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Please at least post a /lurk or something for starters.

More specifically, if its of any interest/on the table to consider further changes or open a debate on it. Because the arguments in this thread are pretty clear and undeniable. Everyones trying to keep a cool head in this thread despite a lot of frustration on lack of changes that we were told were coming.

It is funny how @ZOS_GinaBruno actually engaged a bit with the Sorcerer community a bit during the 1.6 blow up, ending with we are out of time for this update and we will attend to it at the next update, but the Devs and moderators have been silent this time.

SturgeHammer

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Stop trying to ruin my magicka sorc with your stamina hoopla

Nobody is trying to ruin Magicka Sorc except for ZOS. They are the ones who tried to nerf you, not us.

Unfortunately, whenever ZOS picked up that big foam bat and took a swing at Magikca Sorc something unexpected happened. Magicka Sorc bolted at the last moment before impact, exposing Stamina Sorc, who was standing close behind minding their own business, to the full force of the nerfing, which dislodged several teeth.

FENGRUSH

GreyRanger wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Please at least post a /lurk or something for starters.

More specifically, if its of any interest/on the table to consider further changes or open a debate on it. Because the arguments in this thread are pretty clear and undeniable. Everyones trying to keep a cool head in this thread despite a lot of frustration on lack of changes that we were told were coming.

It is funny how @ZOS_GinaBruno actually engaged a bit with the Sorcerer community a bit during the 1.6 blow up, ending with we are out of time for this update and we will attend to it at the next update, but the Devs and moderators have been silent this time.

Unfortunately balances changes are bundled into content updates, which rightfully have a lot of issues that have to be hammered out and take priority (again understandably) over issues of balance.


Balance is better approached in an incremental fashion with communication in place of were trying to achieve <X> through these <Y> changes. And the player base can say that tweak did this, this tweak feels right - this one is too much for <X> change. But either way, it wont blow things out of balance. When you start changing entire skill lines, alter the way damage is calculated, and throw it into a new environment all at the same time - you have what were experiencing now. I respectfully disagree with this approach to balance but it is what it is. This is why theres lack of a response, and again, I get it. But its really unfortunate things go this way. Please do not issue me infractions for my honest opinion that is not intended to be offensive.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.


Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.


This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.


Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.



Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.


This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

Wow Fengrush. I really respect you for managing to answer to such posts with such composure. I am sure if I tried to answer his two previous posts I would get a forum infraction for the simple fact that these posts are not trolling which makes it even worse......

I'm sick of people making a sorcerer and then complaining that it's only good with magic. Yet I'm the one accused of trolling. Too funny.

Get. Out. Of. This. Thread......Now. This is a discussion on stamina sorcs. Unless you have something useful to contribute.

This is the second thread on stam sorcs that @eventide03b14a_ESO has been asked to leave

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2079268/#Comment_2079268

I think its ironic that you are saying were the ones who haven't learned

Players should have the option of playing stamina sorcs. A way of play that should be viable.

Not only that, but you don't even acknowledge the arguments that most stam sorcs are making, that we don't want to harm magicka builds, and that we want to find functional compromises.

If you are going to bring nothing valuable to the conversation, please stop trolling these threads. It is hard for anyone in this thread to take your opinions seriously when you degrade into a one sided perspective that your way of play is the only valuable way of play and no one else's style should be accepted. It's people like you, who want this game to be isolated to cookie cutter builds that ruin it. You know nothing about the essence of elder scrolls games, and you corrode its foundation when you troll here.

Change WILL be coming for stamina sorcs, which has be acknowledged time and time again in stamina sorc related threads, and you have done nothing but come in and hinder any kind of positive progress and any kind of serious feedback at a time when stamina sorcs are suffering further deficits in the coming patch. You would think, with the number of seriously concerned threads and replies, that by now you would recognize that stamina sorcs aren't just "some minority of players" and to add to that that maybe, just maybe you might be wrong to discriminate against "some minority of players" even if that's what we were (which we aren't).

I guess I just don't understand why you can't be happy with one of the strongest classes in the game. If you think they are just going to add a bunch of stamina passives, thus making even the magicka builds even more powerful without taking something, then it only shows how naive you are.

@eventide03b14a_ESO I don't know if you noticed but they're nerfing sorcs *** left and right. Get out of your own ego for a second, you might realize you're on a sinking ship.

Also as someone who plays a magicka sorcs and refuses to acknowledge stam sorcs, you have no right to make suggestions about what we need. Leather armor definitely does not provide enough defensive benefit, especially when mace bugs can entirely negate armor. With more limited mobility, and many of our offensive skills based in close range combat abilities we need shields more and not less. Especially with the hammer coming down hard on mobility in the coming patch.

I can tell you from experience at VR14 with a stam sorc that to stay competitive I'm forced into a block build with double sword/board to 1vX (with very inconsistent results), and it is a poor supplement for being able to actually able to absorb damage. To go toe to toe with other classes, all the damage I take drains my stamina pool. The alternative is to be an entirely glass cannon and use snipe or wrecking blow on switch. We get no in between (and its going to get worse with the new block nerf).

Step out of your cooshy magicka sorc bubble and play the class before you start making decisions about what we need and don't need.

My $15 a month gives me just as much right as you do. What do you really want anyway? Clearly not satisfied playing the class to it's strengths you want them to completely readjust it to your ridiculous criteria of what you think it should be. Sure take some morphs and have them work with weapon damage or max stamina, but you're honestly just getting greedy. No other class has shields based off of stamina. You're insane to think that they would even agree to such a proposal.

Cathexis wrote: »

@Erock25 don't forget they also stealth nerfed overload so that you couldn't use weapon based attack moves in overload anymore (which did cancel your overload bar).

Why should you ever have been able to? Is 10k+ each light attack not enough?

No, it doesn't give you the right to. You, yourself, in the same reply, acknowledge you don't play the class how its "not supposed to be played." YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW TO PLAY A STAMINA SORC, THEREFOR YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT CHANGES STAMINA SORCS NEED. No other class has shields based off magicka either. You are just pulling bs arguments out of your butt. The criteria I'm proposing is hardly ridiculous -- it simply makes stamina sorcs as durable as magicka sorcs so we can use one defensive skill instead of being pigeonholed into sword and board and 4 defensive abilities.

Also if you knew anything about overload or even finished reading my post, you would see that using those abilities cancelled your overload bar, meaning you can't spam those abilities and have overload active.

Personally, I don't think you even play a sorc, I'm starting to think your just one of those nerf bolt escape trolls who's too afraid to actually fight sorcs.

You mad Bro? Harness Magicka and Healing Ward both scale off of magicka; even Barrier scales off of magikca. Do you even ward bro?

FENGRUSH

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.


Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.


This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.


Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.



Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.


This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

Wow Fengrush. I really respect you for managing to answer to such posts with such composure. I am sure if I tried to answer his two previous posts I would get a forum infraction for the simple fact that these posts are not trolling which makes it even worse......

I'm sick of people making a sorcerer and then complaining that it's only good with magic. Yet I'm the one accused of trolling. Too funny.

Get. Out. Of. This. Thread......Now. This is a discussion on stamina sorcs. Unless you have something useful to contribute.

This is the second thread on stam sorcs that @eventide03b14a_ESO has been asked to leave

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2079268/#Comment_2079268

I think its ironic that you are saying were the ones who haven't learned

Players should have the option of playing stamina sorcs. A way of play that should be viable.

Not only that, but you don't even acknowledge the arguments that most stam sorcs are making, that we don't want to harm magicka builds, and that we want to find functional compromises.

If you are going to bring nothing valuable to the conversation, please stop trolling these threads. It is hard for anyone in this thread to take your opinions seriously when you degrade into a one sided perspective that your way of play is the only valuable way of play and no one else's style should be accepted. It's people like you, who want this game to be isolated to cookie cutter builds that ruin it. You know nothing about the essence of elder scrolls games, and you corrode its foundation when you troll here.

Change WILL be coming for stamina sorcs, which has be acknowledged time and time again in stamina sorc related threads, and you have done nothing but come in and hinder any kind of positive progress and any kind of serious feedback at a time when stamina sorcs are suffering further deficits in the coming patch. You would think, with the number of seriously concerned threads and replies, that by now you would recognize that stamina sorcs aren't just "some minority of players" and to add to that that maybe, just maybe you might be wrong to discriminate against "some minority of players" even if that's what we were (which we aren't).

I guess I just don't understand why you can't be happy with one of the strongest classes in the game. If you think they are just going to add a bunch of stamina passives, thus making even the magicka builds even more powerful without taking something, then it only shows how naive you are.

@eventide03b14a_ESO I don't know if you noticed but they're nerfing sorcs *** left and right. Get out of your own ego for a second, you might realize you're on a sinking ship.

Also as someone who plays a magicka sorcs and refuses to acknowledge stam sorcs, you have no right to make suggestions about what we need. Leather armor definitely does not provide enough defensive benefit, especially when mace bugs can entirely negate armor. With more limited mobility, and many of our offensive skills based in close range combat abilities we need shields more and not less. Especially with the hammer coming down hard on mobility in the coming patch.

I can tell you from experience at VR14 with a stam sorc that to stay competitive I'm forced into a block build with double sword/board to 1vX (with very inconsistent results), and it is a poor supplement for being able to actually able to absorb damage. To go toe to toe with other classes, all the damage I take drains my stamina pool. The alternative is to be an entirely glass cannon and use snipe or wrecking blow on switch. We get no in between (and its going to get worse with the new block nerf).

Step out of your cooshy magicka sorc bubble and play the class before you start making decisions about what we need and don't need.

My $15 a month gives me just as much right as you do. What do you really want anyway? Clearly not satisfied playing the class to it's strengths you want them to completely readjust it to your ridiculous criteria of what you think it should be. Sure take some morphs and have them work with weapon damage or max stamina, but you're honestly just getting greedy. No other class has shields based off of stamina. You're insane to think that they would even agree to such a proposal.

Cathexis wrote: »

@Erock25 don't forget they also stealth nerfed overload so that you couldn't use weapon based attack moves in overload anymore (which did cancel your overload bar).

Why should you ever have been able to? Is 10k+ each light attack not enough?

No, it doesn't give you the right to. You, yourself, in the same reply, acknowledge you don't play the class how its "not supposed to be played." YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW TO PLAY A STAMINA SORC, THEREFOR YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT CHANGES STAMINA SORCS NEED. No other class has shields based off magicka either. You are just pulling bs arguments out of your butt. The criteria I'm proposing is hardly ridiculous -- it simply makes stamina sorcs as durable as magicka sorcs so we can use one defensive skill instead of being pigeonholed into sword and board and 4 defensive abilities.

Also if you knew anything about overload or even finished reading my post, you would see that using those abilities cancelled your overload bar, meaning you can't spam those abilities and have overload active.

Personally, I don't think you even play a sorc, I'm starting to think your just one of those nerf bolt escape trolls who's too afraid to actually fight sorcs.

You mad Bro? Harness Magicka and Healing Ward both scale off of magicka; even Barrier scales off of magikca. Do you even ward bro?

Barrier doesnt scale off magicka - its an ult. It scales off your higher stat.

FENGRUSH

Nows your chance to spam with some questions on stam sorc. :P

SturgeHammer

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Nows your chance to spam with some questions on stam sorc. :P

D'oh, stream locked up right when Eric was talking about new Stam passives, only caught that the last passive in the Deadric tree will add Stam and Health regen with a Deadric summoning ability slotted.

IcyDeadPeople

Erock25 wrote: »

Come on ZOS, change Crystal Blast to some kind of stamina morph where we actually have to use our Sorc abilities more than every 20-30 seconds.

Yes, please!

Stamina morph for crystal fragments, bolt escape and mages' fury...would make stamina sorc so much fun to play.

thomasvaughn21_ESO

I started off playing dual wield/bow stamina build and once i got into the veteran ranks i switched it up and went your classic cookie cutter build with destruction and resto staff and was immediately better. I was surprised to see that the moves for the destruction staff triggers the instant cast proc for crystal fragments making the destruction staff almost a must for sorcs since it is one of our most damaging and useful abilities in pvp and pve.

What they need to do is make it to where our stamina moves trigger that proc and base it off weapon damage and stamina. That alone would make me come back to playing my stamina sorc. Redoing the passives to add weapon damage and not just spell damage would make stamina sorcs viable. And thats an easy fix!

Samadhi

Erock25 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Absolute MUSTS for stamina sorc are some love for our passives so they help stamina builds as well and at least one ability that does damage and can be used regularly. I don't care if it is our primary spammable attack or a secondary (like Crystal Frag) that become the stamina morph, but we need SOMETHING that I have to use regularly.

Mages Wrath and Crystal Blast are 2 skills we could use a Stamina morph for. Also allow our passives to synergize with Stamina and we would be fine. This is something simple and easy to do. Those 2 morphs are very seldom used in both the pve and pvp world.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Seldom is an understatement. They are virtually pointless currently. Magicka return on death? Seriously? And the AoE on the crystal blast is not nearly strong enough to justify the casting time.

Crystal Blast is one of the best AOE spells in the game. I get 3700 AOE on my tooltip when Impulse only shows 3000. The cast time for Crystal Shards/Frags/Blast has only been 1 second for months now. You can spam it just as fast as Impulse if you know what you are doing.

This spell you call "virtually pointless" is the same one I use to solo tough content like Veteran Banished Cells:



It's really getting on my nerves that people are trying to ruin Crystal Blast when what Stamina Sorcs REALLY need is a morph for Conjured Ward that scales off stamina. The only physical weapon line that doesn't ALREADY have a a great damage spell is Sword & Board, which is going to be useless now anyway because of the blocking nerf.

You have been the lone voice sticking up for Crystal Blast since forever. Crystal Frag's damage increase and proc mechanic is vital to competitive single target damage and it is probably one of the most lopsided morph choices in the entire game. I'm sorry but personally I feel you should just take one for the team considering there are a lot more people wanting to play stamina sorc out there than people who want to use Crystal Blast.

Not true, prior to 1.6 I was also very adamantly against any changes that compromise Crystal Blast as a Magicka AoE.

Post-1.6 though, would really adore it being made to something more suited for a Stamina build.

Erock25

Samadhi wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Absolute MUSTS for stamina sorc are some love for our passives so they help stamina builds as well and at least one ability that does damage and can be used regularly. I don't care if it is our primary spammable attack or a secondary (like Crystal Frag) that become the stamina morph, but we need SOMETHING that I have to use regularly.

Mages Wrath and Crystal Blast are 2 skills we could use a Stamina morph for. Also allow our passives to synergize with Stamina and we would be fine. This is something simple and easy to do. Those 2 morphs are very seldom used in both the pve and pvp world.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Seldom is an understatement. They are virtually pointless currently. Magicka return on death? Seriously? And the AoE on the crystal blast is not nearly strong enough to justify the casting time.

Crystal Blast is one of the best AOE spells in the game. I get 3700 AOE on my tooltip when Impulse only shows 3000. The cast time for Crystal Shards/Frags/Blast has only been 1 second for months now. You can spam it just as fast as Impulse if you know what you are doing.

This spell you call "virtually pointless" is the same one I use to solo tough content like Veteran Banished Cells:



It's really getting on my nerves that people are trying to ruin Crystal Blast when what Stamina Sorcs REALLY need is a morph for Conjured Ward that scales off stamina. The only physical weapon line that doesn't ALREADY have a a great damage spell is Sword & Board, which is going to be useless now anyway because of the blocking nerf.

You have been the lone voice sticking up for Crystal Blast since forever. Crystal Frag's damage increase and proc mechanic is vital to competitive single target damage and it is probably one of the most lopsided morph choices in the entire game. I'm sorry but personally I feel you should just take one for the team considering there are a lot more people wanting to play stamina sorc out there than people who want to use Crystal Blast.

Not true, prior to 1.6 I was also very adamantly against any changes that compromise Crystal Blast as a Magicka AoE.

Post-1.6 though, would really adore it being made to something more suited for a Stamina build.

I stand corrected. Hyperbole should be avoided and I apologize for that but I do believe that Crystal Frag is a must have for a very large majority of Sorc magicka players ... something like 80%. Then 15% are people who are using Crystal Blast but either don't realize or don't care that Crystal Frag is better. Then the final 5% actually prefer Crystal Blast over Frag.

With the announced changes to Daedric Protection passive (proposed 20% HP regen and 10% stamina regen with Daedric Summoning spell slotted) I actually prefer they make Empowered Ward better for stam Sorcs or perhaps change Vel Curse to cost and scale on either stam or magicka depending on which is higher. I'd hate to miss out on that 20% HP regen and 10% stamina regen but I'd be hard pressed to fit Bound Armaments, Hardened/Empowered Ward, or Greater Storm Atro on either of my bars for PVP.

Cathexis

Erock25 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Absolute MUSTS for stamina sorc are some love for our passives so they help stamina builds as well and at least one ability that does damage and can be used regularly. I don't care if it is our primary spammable attack or a secondary (like Crystal Frag) that become the stamina morph, but we need SOMETHING that I have to use regularly.

Mages Wrath and Crystal Blast are 2 skills we could use a Stamina morph for. Also allow our passives to synergize with Stamina and we would be fine. This is something simple and easy to do. Those 2 morphs are very seldom used in both the pve and pvp world.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Seldom is an understatement. They are virtually pointless currently. Magicka return on death? Seriously? And the AoE on the crystal blast is not nearly strong enough to justify the casting time.

Crystal Blast is one of the best AOE spells in the game. I get 3700 AOE on my tooltip when Impulse only shows 3000. The cast time for Crystal Shards/Frags/Blast has only been 1 second for months now. You can spam it just as fast as Impulse if you know what you are doing.

This spell you call "virtually pointless" is the same one I use to solo tough content like Veteran Banished Cells:



It's really getting on my nerves that people are trying to ruin Crystal Blast when what Stamina Sorcs REALLY need is a morph for Conjured Ward that scales off stamina. The only physical weapon line that doesn't ALREADY have a a great damage spell is Sword & Board, which is going to be useless now anyway because of the blocking nerf.

You have been the lone voice sticking up for Crystal Blast since forever. Crystal Frag's damage increase and proc mechanic is vital to competitive single target damage and it is probably one of the most lopsided morph choices in the entire game. I'm sorry but personally I feel you should just take one for the team considering there are a lot more people wanting to play stamina sorc out there than people who want to use Crystal Blast.

Not true, prior to 1.6 I was also very adamantly against any changes that compromise Crystal Blast as a Magicka AoE.

Post-1.6 though, would really adore it being made to something more suited for a Stamina build.

I stand corrected. Hyperbole should be avoided and I apologize for that but I do believe that Crystal Frag is a must have for a very large majority of Sorc magicka players ... something like 80%. Then 15% are people who are using Crystal Blast but either don't realize or don't care that Crystal Frag is better. Then the final 5% actually prefer Crystal Blast over Frag.

With the announced changes to Daedric Protection passive (proposed 20% HP regen and 10% stamina regen with Daedric Summoning spell slotted) I actually prefer they make Empowered Ward better for stam Sorcs or perhaps change Vel Curse to cost and scale on either stam or magicka depending on which is higher. I'd hate to miss out on that 20% HP regen and 10% stamina regen but I'd be hard pressed to fit Bound Armaments, Hardened/Empowered Ward, or Greater Storm Atro on either of my bars for PVP.

They're making more stamina changes? Can anyone post?

Cathexis

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So yea thundering presence doesnt even have the speed boost that youd naturally want on a stamina played that cant use blink nearly as much as a magicka sorc.


Theyve really taken the weakest class setup and beat it down in this patch.


This is absolutely awful.

And it doesnt even do that much damage. 510 a second for me with a template character, which just barely makes it worth using from a DPS point of view over just another Wrecking Blow.

Yep - just tested with a flat no buff on my build.


Caltrops doing 1.2k, thundering doing 700

Other morph

Caltrops doing 1.2k, boundless doing 350

This is with no food or anything so my magicka is completely unbuffed. My equipment is full dps here though, which is more than Id normally run on a stam sorc.

So you can do a couple hundred extra damage on the occasions you just happen to be adjacent to someone youre fighting, or you can have major expedition.



Will try to say it as nicely as possible but this is an absolute joke/slap in the face. Nobody is even trying with stam sorc @ZOS.

Tune in to for the next month to enjoy how fun a stam sorc can be to play. Its all going away pretty soon it looks like.

There are three other classes that stamina builds work great for. Leave the sorc alone.

Stam sorc actually works fine in its current state. Most cant make it work because it is not easy to play.


This patch is just tearing it to pieces and the only 'buffs' put in place are actually worse options than sticking to the magicka counterparts.

Wow Fengrush. I really respect you for managing to answer to such posts with such composure. I am sure if I tried to answer his two previous posts I would get a forum infraction for the simple fact that these posts are not trolling which makes it even worse......

I'm sick of people making a sorcerer and then complaining that it's only good with magic. Yet I'm the one accused of trolling. Too funny.

Get. Out. Of. This. Thread......Now. This is a discussion on stamina sorcs. Unless you have something useful to contribute.

This is the second thread on stam sorcs that @eventide03b14a_ESO has been asked to leave

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2079268/#Comment_2079268

I think its ironic that you are saying were the ones who haven't learned

Players should have the option of playing stamina sorcs. A way of play that should be viable.

Not only that, but you don't even acknowledge the arguments that most stam sorcs are making, that we don't want to harm magicka builds, and that we want to find functional compromises.

If you are going to bring nothing valuable to the conversation, please stop trolling these threads. It is hard for anyone in this thread to take your opinions seriously when you degrade into a one sided perspective that your way of play is the only valuable way of play and no one else's style should be accepted. It's people like you, who want this game to be isolated to cookie cutter builds that ruin it. You know nothing about the essence of elder scrolls games, and you corrode its foundation when you troll here.

Change WILL be coming for stamina sorcs, which has be acknowledged time and time again in stamina sorc related threads, and you have done nothing but come in and hinder any kind of positive progress and any kind of serious feedback at a time when stamina sorcs are suffering further deficits in the coming patch. You would think, with the number of seriously concerned threads and replies, that by now you would recognize that stamina sorcs aren't just "some minority of players" and to add to that that maybe, just maybe you might be wrong to discriminate against "some minority of players" even if that's what we were (which we aren't).

I guess I just don't understand why you can't be happy with one of the strongest classes in the game. If you think they are just going to add a bunch of stamina passives, thus making even the magicka builds even more powerful without taking something, then it only shows how naive you are.

@eventide03b14a_ESO I don't know if you noticed but they're nerfing sorcs *** left and right. Get out of your own ego for a second, you might realize you're on a sinking ship.

Also as someone who plays a magicka sorcs and refuses to acknowledge stam sorcs, you have no right to make suggestions about what we need. Leather armor definitely does not provide enough defensive benefit, especially when mace bugs can entirely negate armor. With more limited mobility, and many of our offensive skills based in close range combat abilities we need shields more and not less. Especially with the hammer coming down hard on mobility in the coming patch.

I can tell you from experience at VR14 with a stam sorc that to stay competitive I'm forced into a block build with double sword/board to 1vX (with very inconsistent results), and it is a poor supplement for being able to actually able to absorb damage. To go toe to toe with other classes, all the damage I take drains my stamina pool. The alternative is to be an entirely glass cannon and use snipe or wrecking blow on switch. We get no in between (and its going to get worse with the new block nerf).

Step out of your cooshy magicka sorc bubble and play the class before you start making decisions about what we need and don't need.

My $15 a month gives me just as much right as you do. What do you really want anyway? Clearly not satisfied playing the class to it's strengths you want them to completely readjust it to your ridiculous criteria of what you think it should be. Sure take some morphs and have them work with weapon damage or max stamina, but you're honestly just getting greedy. No other class has shields based off of stamina. You're insane to think that they would even agree to such a proposal.

Cathexis wrote: »

@Erock25 don't forget they also stealth nerfed overload so that you couldn't use weapon based attack moves in overload anymore (which did cancel your overload bar).

Why should you ever have been able to? Is 10k+ each light attack not enough?

No, it doesn't give you the right to. You, yourself, in the same reply, acknowledge you don't play the class how its "not supposed to be played." YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW TO PLAY A STAMINA SORC, THEREFOR YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT CHANGES STAMINA SORCS NEED. No other class has shields based off magicka either. You are just pulling bs arguments out of your butt. The criteria I'm proposing is hardly ridiculous -- it simply makes stamina sorcs as durable as magicka sorcs so we can use one defensive skill instead of being pigeonholed into sword and board and 4 defensive abilities.

Also if you knew anything about overload or even finished reading my post, you would see that using those abilities cancelled your overload bar, meaning you can't spam those abilities and have overload active.

Personally, I don't think you even play a sorc, I'm starting to think your just one of those nerf bolt escape trolls who's too afraid to actually fight sorcs.

You mad Bro? Harness Magicka and Healing Ward both scale off of magicka; even Barrier scales off of magikca. Do you even ward bro?

@eventide03b14a_ESO none of those abilities are class abilities and barrier scales off of stam/wep damage if it is higher because it is an ult. And no I don't ward because im a stam sorc and because currently it isn't a viable option. You really need to think even a little about what you are saying before you respond.

FENGRUSH

"the players are more informed than we are" - @ZOS_RichLambert

Dyride

With the announced changes to Daedric Protection passive (proposed 20% HP regen and 10% stamina regen with Daedric Summoning spell slotted)

That seems like a purely thought out buff since it helps Magicka builds even more than Stamina. Stamina management is widely considered Sorcerers only weakness, this kind of buff is something I could see the wider player base being upset over.

CP5

FENGRUSH wrote: »

"the players are more informed than we are" - @ZOS_RichLambert

How is it that I believe this?

Erock25

infracanisub17_ESO wrote: »

With the announced changes to Daedric Protection passive (proposed 20% HP regen and 10% stamina regen with Daedric Summoning spell slotted)

That seems like a purely thought out buff since it helps Magicka builds even more than Stamina. Stamina management is widely considered Sorcerers only weakness, this kind of buff is something I could see the wider player base being upset over.

I think you meant to say poorly but yes it is going to be nice for magicka sorc especially considering they will actually slot daedric summoning spells while stam sorc won't.

Cathexis

Erock25 wrote: »

infracanisub17_ESO wrote: »

With the announced changes to Daedric Protection passive (proposed 20% HP regen and 10% stamina regen with Daedric Summoning spell slotted)

That seems like a purely thought out buff since it helps Magicka builds even more than Stamina. Stamina management is widely considered Sorcerers only weakness, this kind of buff is something I could see the wider player base being upset over.

I think you meant to say poorly but yes it is going to be nice for magicka sorc especially considering they will actually slot daedric summoning spells while stam sorc won't.

Bound armor for stam sorcs is actually not as garbage as it seems, so it will be a nice bonus for bound armor users .. Although it doesn't compensate for taking 2-3 skill slots.

Dyride

Yes @Erock25, I did mean poorly.

Rather than a regen boost, I think they should buff Dark Exchange slightly. This would limit the buff to only Stamina builds.

Give Thundering Presence a slight buff in damage by making it tick every 0.5 secs and include Minor Expedition.

It would also be good to get Minor weapon crit after using a Dark Magic ability.

Those are the changes I would like to see. Those seem simple enough yet don't meddle with the rest of Sorcerer abilities.