So now that Detect Pots will no longer work against Cloak in 1.7

Maulkin · July 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

You must be ignorant over Cloak. Cloak is not Sneak. Sneak will still be used by nightblades, templars, DKs, and Sorcs. NBs will not spam cloak repeatably to cover distance from a-z. They if not on horse will rely on sneak. Cloak will be used for escapes or set-ups.

What ?!?!?!

Have you ever seen a magicka NB, mate? Magicka NBs are absolutely covering up distance a-z in perma cloak. I can start from Alessia bridge and travel all the way round the Imperial City and get back to Alessia bridge *with in-combat regen* while never exiting cloak. It costs 2.3k magicka for me and lasts ~3" and I have 1.8k magicka regen (before pots) every 2". You do the math. I NEVER exit cloak unless it's to initiate an attack.

And the reason I do that is because a) I avoid getting ganked and b) I can actually travel faster that way than by sprinting with Major Expedition buff.

The only thing that can disrupt my journey are gankers on chokepoints using detect pots. If that is removed then i can freely choose to engage and disengage from combat at will.

Sprint + double-take (in full medium) is faster than you can cloak + concealed weapon + double take. If you're spamming double-take *and* cloak you're not going to make it around cyrodiil without running out of magicka, that is unsustainable.

I never said I'm faster than a stamina NB sprinting. I'm simply faster under cloak than outside of cloak as a magicka NB. I very clearly explained I'm talking about magicka NBs. I can't sprint more than 10" as a magicka NB without running out of stamina.

And no I probably can't circumnavigate IC in combat with double take + cloak. It would be a good test with continuous attack and pots but I can't stay in combat for all that time to test. Or i could use Retreating Maneuvers and only reveal myself once every 20" and then it's fully sustainable.

Besides the semantics, the point still stands. A magicka NB definitely stays cloaked permanently near a combat zone and only enters combat at his/her choosing, either with a stun from CW or a massive burst from Telestrike -> Fear -> Proxy -> Incapa/Tether.

Changes in the mechanics that allow you to setup opening burst easier, more often and with higher chance of escape will only make things more lope-sided and eventually lead to nerfs. That's my opinion anyway.

I believe it would be best if they implement the improvements first that will make it more reliable (they said single target attacks will no longer pop you out) and let those bed in and see the reaction of the community before going for another buff.

SturgeHammer · July 2015

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

oh and Revealing Flare is worthless.. Please increase radius by 150%

I think ZOS missed an opportunity to have a morph called Signal Flare, which would be pbaoe revealing flare with an always-on passive that makes a "dinging" sound when a stealthed enemy is near. The "dinging" would become faster as you become closer to a stealthed player. The alert radius would be unaffected by stealth detection radius buffs/debuts since the alert alone doesn't reveal anyone.

Ezareth · July 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

You must be ignorant over Cloak. Cloak is not Sneak. Sneak will still be used by nightblades, templars, DKs, and Sorcs. NBs will not spam cloak repeatably to cover distance from a-z. They if not on horse will rely on sneak. Cloak will be used for escapes or set-ups.

What ?!?!?!

Have you ever seen a magicka NB, mate? Magicka NBs are absolutely covering up distance a-z in perma cloak. I can start from Alessia bridge and travel all the way round the Imperial City and get back to Alessia bridge *with in-combat regen* while never exiting cloak. It costs 2.3k magicka for me and lasts ~3" and I have 1.8k magicka regen (before pots) every 2". You do the math. I NEVER exit cloak unless it's to initiate an attack.

And the reason I do that is because a) I avoid getting ganked and b) I can actually travel faster that way than by sprinting with Major Expedition buff.

The only thing that can disrupt my journey are gankers on chokepoints using detect pots. If that is removed then i can freely choose to engage and disengage from combat at will.

Sprint + double-take (in full medium) is faster than you can cloak + concealed weapon + double take. If you're spamming double-take *and* cloak you're not going to make it around cyrodiil without running out of magicka, that is unsustainable.

I never said I'm faster than a stamina NB sprinting. I'm simply faster under cloak than outside of cloak as a magicka NB. I very clearly explained I'm talking about magicka NBs. I can't sprint more than 10" as a magicka NB without running out of stamina.

And no I probably can't circumnavigate IC in combat with double take + cloak. It would be a good test with continuous attack and pots but I can't stay in combat for all that time to test. Or i could use Retreating Maneuvers and only reveal myself once every 20" and then it's fully sustainable.

Besides the semantics, the point still stands. A magicka NB definitely stays cloaked permanently near a combat zone and only enters combat at his/her choosing, either with a stun from CW or a massive burst from Telestrike -> Fear -> Proxy -> Incapa/Tether.

Changes in the mechanics that allow you to setup opening burst easier, more often and with higher chance of escape will only make things more lope-sided and eventually lead to nerfs. That's my opinion anyway.

I believe it would be best if they implement the improvements first that will make it more reliable (they said single target attacks will no longer pop you out) and let those bed in and see the reaction of the community before going for another buff.

Keep in mind Retreating Manuevers < Double take too but yeah I hear you.

I haven't heard it confirmed for sure anywhere that detect pots will no longer detect cloaked NBs in 1.7. Does anyone have any 100% sure confirmation on this or is this another 8 page thread where people are complaining about something that doesn't even exist? (Kind of like "bugged" maces).

Maulkin · July 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I haven't heard it confirmed for sure anywhere that detect pots will no longer detect cloaked NBs in 1.7. Does anyone have any 100% sure confirmation on this or is this another 8 page thread where people are complaining about something that doesn't even exist? (Kind of like "bugged" maces).

It's not confirmed by devs. What I've been told (but have not seen myself, it's an important distinction) is that a few ESO Lives back someone raised the question why detect pots don't reveal players in Clouding Swarm but reveal players in Cloak, when both offer the same buff: invisibility. I was told the response was along the lines of that they should probably behave the same and more like CS than Cloak. The rumour then started that a change was incoming that detect pots will not work against cloak.

But it is just hearsay atm. No dev has confirmed , or denied, a change is incoming.

Zhoyzu · July 2015

wait... They fixed cloak for good now? Will it work when i cast it everytime? when did they fix it?

Xael · July 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

You must be ignorant over Cloak. Cloak is not Sneak. Sneak will still be used by nightblades, templars, DKs, and Sorcs. NBs will not spam cloak repeatably to cover distance from a-z. They if not on horse will rely on sneak. Cloak will be used for escapes or set-ups.

What ?!?!?!

Have you ever seen a magicka NB, mate? Magicka NBs are absolutely covering up distance a-z in perma cloak. I can start from Alessia bridge and travel all the way round the Imperial City and get back to Alessia bridge *with in-combat regen* while never exiting cloak. It costs 2.3k magicka for me and lasts ~3" and I have 1.8k magicka regen (before pots) every 2". You do the math. I NEVER exit cloak unless it's to initiate an attack.

And the reason I do that is because a) I avoid getting ganked and b) I can actually travel faster that way than by sprinting with Major Expedition buff.

The only thing that can disrupt my journey are gankers on chokepoints using detect pots. If that is removed then i can freely choose to engage and disengage from combat at will.

I don't use perma cloak for several reasons.
Here are a few:
It's slower than other methods of safe travel.
It does not give you a sneak attack like sneak does.
You are constantly using Magicka. If you are a dps burst build, you will not have 1.8k regen. I have around 3k Spell Damage and a high Magicka pool. Anyone running a damage build is going to have around 900 or so Magicka Regen.

Again, a lot of nightblades do not use perma cloak. Even if they did, big deal. You still have 3 other classes that don't but use sneak.

@Ezareth I don't keep RML on 2 bars, just one. I use it for hunting other stealthers and proccing MotG. Considering I don't want to leave stealth by using Entropy or something else, I use RML. So here it's a multi-purpose thing. Also it's not a rumor, Eric Wrobel (sp?) said in ESO Live that Cloak will now no longer be detected by potions, but still breakable by any AoE. Stuff like Charge and other single target precasted abilities will no longer bug out the vanish. This is something they should have done from the start. It's good, RML still works, sky is not falling

xANTIxMATTERx · July 2015

Xael wrote: »

Also it's not a rumor, Eric Wrobel (sp?) said in ESO Live that Cloak will now no longer be detected by potions, but still breakable by any AoE.

I thought they said that AOE's would not be able to knock us out of cloak? IIRC

k2blader · July 2015

Sharee wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

With Radiant Magelight you literally have to be standing right on top of the Nightblade in order to be able to see him.

So radiant magelight negating cloak when you are right on top of a NB is not good enough.
But if radiant magelight negated bolt escape if you were right on top of a sorc, all hell would break loose about how OP that is.

- thought of the day

What does BE have to do with this? If you want BE roll a sorc. Stop making ridiculous comparisons about it. :-P

Master_Kas · July 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

With Radiant Magelight you literally have to be standing right on top of the Nightblade in order to be able to see him.

So radiant magelight negating cloak when you are right on top of a NB is not good enough.
But if radiant magelight negated bolt escape if you were right on top of a sorc, all hell would break loose about how OP that is.

- thought of the day

What does BE have to do with this? If you want BE roll a sorc. Stop making ridiculous comparisons about it. :-P

Both are escapes . Radiant make nbs cloak useless . Magicka waste.
Bolt still works no matter what skill hit you.

Prob why he compared them .:)

Jules · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, detection potions will let you see a Night blade using Shadow Cloak. Note that the single target damage immunity on Shadow Cloak will not work if the enemy has revealed you with Magelight or Revealing Flare.

Detect pots still work against NB cloak.

Lettigall · July 2015

Jules wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, detection potions will let you see a Night blade using Shadow Cloak. Note that the single target damage immunity on Shadow Cloak will not work if the enemy has revealed you with Magelight or Revealing Flare.

Detect pots still work against NB cloak.

But seems you will see them but cannot hurt them with single target damage.

EDIT.
Deleted time stamps unrelated to post.

LegendaryMage · July 2015

Lettigall wrote: »

0:53 starts taalking about class changes
00:57 NB

Jules wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, detection potions will let you see a Night blade using Shadow Cloak. Note that the single target damage immunity on Shadow Cloak will not work if the enemy has revealed you with Magelight or Revealing Flare.

Detect pots still work against NB cloak.

But seems you will see them but cannot hurt them with single target damage.

Even if you couldn't for any reason (for example cf a cloaked nb), you could still take them out (streak?) much more easy with something else, then hit them.

Lettigall · July 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

0:53 starts taalking about class changes
00:57 NB

Jules wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, detection potions will let you see a Night blade using Shadow Cloak. Note that the single target damage immunity on Shadow Cloak will not work if the enemy has revealed you with Magelight or Revealing Flare.

Detect pots still work against NB cloak.

But seems you will see them but cannot hurt them with single target damage.

Even if you couldn't for any reason (for example cf a cloaked nb), you could still take them out (streak?) much more easy with something else, then hit them.

Detection potion doesn't bring out of hide and doesn't break cloak it shows hidden enemy. If cloak isn't broken no single target dmg, most ranged and gap closers simply won't do any dmg. Detection potions still be very effective, since you can close gap and then aoe.

Detection potion didn't get nerfed, cloak got fixed and buffed- 2.5s immunity to single target skills while cloaked. Is it OP? Or Gina just forgot to mention that in this line: Note that the single target damage immunity on Shadow Cloak will not work if the enemy has revealed you with Magelight or Revealing Flare. Guess only PTS testers can find it out.

LegendaryMage · July 2015

Lettigall wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

0:53 starts taalking about class changes
00:57 NB

Jules wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, detection potions will let you see a Night blade using Shadow Cloak. Note that the single target damage immunity on Shadow Cloak will not work if the enemy has revealed you with Magelight or Revealing Flare.

Detect pots still work against NB cloak.

But seems you will see them but cannot hurt them with single target damage.

Even if you couldn't for any reason (for example cf a cloaked nb), you could still take them out (streak?) much more easy with something else, then hit them.

Detection potion doesn't bring out of hide and doesn't break cloak it shows hidden enemy. If cloak isn't broken no single target dmg, most ranged and gap closers simply won't do any dmg. Detection potions still be very effective, since you can close gap and then aoe.

Detection potion didn't get nerfed, cloak got fixed and buffed- 2.5s immunity to single target skills while cloaked. Is it OP? Or Gina just forgot to mention that in this line: Note that the single target damage immunity on Shadow Cloak will not work if the enemy has revealed you with Magelight or Revealing Flare. Guess only PTS testers can find it out.

Yes, I will test this with some friends soon and see how it goes. But basically if the pot reveals them as it did, then that's all it really takes, we can see how it breaks later. I have a couple of things I'd like to test, mainly streak and boundless storm. As these are not necessarily single target damage.

FireCowCommando · July 2015

i hope you guys are right, id be a little annoyed to find myself sitting there having used a detect pot only to stare at the guy with 10 useless abilities.