So now that Detect Pots will no longer work against Cloak in 1.7

timidobserver · June 2015

Anyone got a source for this?

ThatNeonZebraAgain · June 2015

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

Erock25 · June 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

This won't dramatically change things.

Hahahahha .... that's funny man. Tell me another joke.

Sharee · June 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

With Radiant Magelight you literally have to be standing right on top of the Nightblade in order to be able to see him.

So radiant magelight negating cloak when you are right on top of a NB is not good enough.
But if radiant magelight negated bolt escape if you were right on top of a sorc, all hell would break loose about how OP that is.

- thought of the day

Manoekin · June 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

cloak, fear, sap/funnel, veil, several CC abilities. All heal/avoid damage. You sound like a ganker complaining because he lost a fight once someone found him and engaged in melee.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · June 2015

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

cloak, fear, sap/funnel, veil, several CC abilities. All heal/avoid damage. You sound like a ganker complaining because he lost a fight once someone found him and engaged in melee.

And you sound condescending; I run with organized guild groups just as much as I solo with a 2h build. I'm well aware of NB damage mitigation options, but HoTs and heals based on kills don't do much in the insanely low TTK environment. NBs (especially us Argonian ones) used to have nice self-heals from potions, but that was done away with in 1.6. Fear is useful for a couple seconds before they break it (unless they're already cc immune), veil has a small radius and is stationary (ie easily avoidable), and using abilities (among other things) instantly takes you out of cloak. Cloak still isn't reliable/fixed to this day, and fixing detect pots is one way to help it work like it always should have.

OdinForge · June 2015

This is a buff to magicka NB, whose entire play-style was countered by detect pots. Stamina NB will still rely on the hasty retreat+double-take stack to re-position themselves insanely fast. Magicka NB is also 100% countered by other NB with access to mark. Sounds like the potions should still help you catch in stealth baddies, as long as they aren't wasting resources to escape.

Magicka NB needs the buff, it's a really fun play-style that not even stamina NB can pull off. Most stamina NB will be countered still by means of gap closing, AoE, caltrops the usual suspects. Assuming nirn gets fixed, stamina NB will actually become easier to kill for most magicka based players. Even with decent regen stamina NB cannot cloak the same way magicka NB does.

cozmon3c_ESO · June 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

cloak, fear, sap/funnel, veil, several CC abilities. All heal/avoid damage. You sound like a ganker complaining because he lost a fight once someone found him and engaged in melee.

And you sound condescending; I run with organized guild groups just as much as I solo with a 2h build. I'm well aware of NB damage mitigation options, but HoTs and heals based on kills don't do much in the insanely low TTK environment. NBs (especially us Argonian ones) used to have nice self-heals from potions, but that was done away with in 1.6. Fear is useful for a couple seconds before they break it (unless they're already cc immune), veil has a small radius and is stationary (ie easily avoidable), and using abilities (among other things) instantly takes you out of cloak. Cloak still isn't reliable/fixed to this day, and fixing detect pots is one way to help it work like it always should have.

you mean to be OP as hell, k right. i know youre a NB but 1v1 fights against this would be an absolute Nightmare if this change happens. We shouldnt have to carry detect pots to fight an equal fight in the first place. if anything they need to make it so you can spot a NB if they are standing right in front of your crosshair, then take away the pots. that would be fair imo.

Manoekin · June 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

cloak, fear, sap/funnel, veil, several CC abilities. All heal/avoid damage. You sound like a ganker complaining because he lost a fight once someone found him and engaged in melee.

And you sound condescending; I run with organized guild groups just as much as I solo with a 2h build. I'm well aware of NB damage mitigation options, but HoTs and heals based on kills don't do much in the insanely low TTK environment. NBs (especially us Argonian ones) used to have nice self-heals from potions, but that was done away with in 1.6. Fear is useful for a couple seconds before they break it (unless they're already cc immune), veil has a small radius and is stationary (ie easily avoidable), and using abilities (among other things) instantly takes you out of cloak. Cloak still isn't reliable/fixed to this day, and fixing detect pots is one way to help it work like it always should have.

I didn't mention any heal from kill abilities I don't think. Veil is for you, not the enemy so I don't know what you're trying to say there. I just want NB's to own up and say they want NB streak is all. Should be glad you actually have an ability coming close to that.

Rook_Master · June 2015

This change would allow Nightblades to completely dictate the terms of the fight.

It's not even that difficult as it is right now to escape from a player that IS using detect pots. This will just be a nightmare.

Talcyndl · June 2015

ESO is the only MMO I've ever played that has no cooldown on its 'stealth during combat' skill. It's already silly enough to fight a NB that just repeats attack/stealth/attack/stealth over and over again.

eventide03b14a_ESO · June 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

How exactly will anyone kill a Nightblade with these changes??

With Radiant Magelight you literally have to be standing right on top of the Nightblade in order to be able to see him. Detect Pots are the only thing that enables someone to even stand a chance against a good Nightblade. And your going to make Detect Pots useless against Cloak?

1.You can't target or tab target a Nightblade when he Cloaks.
2.Can't hit him with any Single Target abilties while he is Cloaked.
3.Casting a Meteor Ulty on a Nightblade will result in him Cloaking before impact and it missing even if he didn't move.
4.Any projectile fired at him will miss just by simply Cloaking, if he moves or not.
5.1 Morph gives guaranteed Crit Strike Chance on next attack
6.1 Morph removes Dots on activation.

If this change is allowed, Cloak becomes the most powerful combat repositioning skill in the game, yes even better then Bolt Escape as it allows the NB to only enter and exit combat at will, but it also gives him 100% control of an engagement and will always have his opponent playing defense. Bolt Escape NEVER gives the Sorc a 100% offensive advantage and the ability to control the tempo of a fight...its one thing to run and reposition, its a whole other matter to appear and dissapear at will, with a Radiant Magelight skill that will only reveal them if they are 1m from you, while also getting all the bonuses of sneak attack damage multiple times during a fight.

I am all about nerfing the duration of Detect Pots, I think they do last a tad bit too long, but making Cloak immune to detect pots alltogether will just make the most powerful burst class in the game even more powerful, and Cloak will have no viable counters, RML will require you to get mega close to the NB to be feared to death, that is if it even works and its bugged most of the time.

Can someone please explain the reasoning behind this. I can't for the life of me see how this could be balanced, every other class will be at a complete disadvantage against this except other Nightblades. It will then just play a game of who can Cloak the most.

If this change is to go through, then Radiant Magelight needs a HUGE buff, its reveal radius needs to be increased tremendously if its to be a viable counter to Cloak which according to its tooltip it is because it clearly states "Reveal hidden and invisible enemies"

I just want confirmation...are you changing Cloak so Detect Pots no longer work against it?

I literally never use detect pots and I have no trouble killing NB's, and who uses Radiant Magelight anymore? Detect potions never should have worked against cloak and I'm glad they are finally making it useful. L2P.

Erock25 · June 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

How exactly will anyone kill a Nightblade with these changes??

With Radiant Magelight you literally have to be standing right on top of the Nightblade in order to be able to see him. Detect Pots are the only thing that enables someone to even stand a chance against a good Nightblade. And your going to make Detect Pots useless against Cloak?

1.You can't target or tab target a Nightblade when he Cloaks.
2.Can't hit him with any Single Target abilties while he is Cloaked.
3.Casting a Meteor Ulty on a Nightblade will result in him Cloaking before impact and it missing even if he didn't move.
4.Any projectile fired at him will miss just by simply Cloaking, if he moves or not.
5.1 Morph gives guaranteed Crit Strike Chance on next attack
6.1 Morph removes Dots on activation.

If this change is allowed, Cloak becomes the most powerful combat repositioning skill in the game, yes even better then Bolt Escape as it allows the NB to only enter and exit combat at will, but it also gives him 100% control of an engagement and will always have his opponent playing defense. Bolt Escape NEVER gives the Sorc a 100% offensive advantage and the ability to control the tempo of a fight...its one thing to run and reposition, its a whole other matter to appear and dissapear at will, with a Radiant Magelight skill that will only reveal them if they are 1m from you, while also getting all the bonuses of sneak attack damage multiple times during a fight.

I am all about nerfing the duration of Detect Pots, I think they do last a tad bit too long, but making Cloak immune to detect pots alltogether will just make the most powerful burst class in the game even more powerful, and Cloak will have no viable counters, RML will require you to get mega close to the NB to be feared to death, that is if it even works and its bugged most of the time.

Can someone please explain the reasoning behind this. I can't for the life of me see how this could be balanced, every other class will be at a complete disadvantage against this except other Nightblades. It will then just play a game of who can Cloak the most.

If this change is to go through, then Radiant Magelight needs a HUGE buff, its reveal radius needs to be increased tremendously if its to be a viable counter to Cloak which according to its tooltip it is because it clearly states "Reveal hidden and invisible enemies"

I just want confirmation...are you changing Cloak so Detect Pots no longer work against it?

I literally never use detect pots and I have no trouble killing NB's, and who uses Radiant Magelight anymore? Detect potions never should have worked against cloak and I'm glad they are finally making it useful. L2P.

How do you pop them out of stealth, then? Serious question.

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

How exactly will anyone kill a Nightblade with these changes??

With Radiant Magelight you literally have to be standing right on top of the Nightblade in order to be able to see him. Detect Pots are the only thing that enables someone to even stand a chance against a good Nightblade. And your going to make Detect Pots useless against Cloak?

1.You can't target or tab target a Nightblade when he Cloaks.
2.Can't hit him with any Single Target abilties while he is Cloaked.
3.Casting a Meteor Ulty on a Nightblade will result in him Cloaking before impact and it missing even if he didn't move.
4.Any projectile fired at him will miss just by simply Cloaking, if he moves or not.
5.1 Morph gives guaranteed Crit Strike Chance on next attack
6.1 Morph removes Dots on activation.

If this change is allowed, Cloak becomes the most powerful combat repositioning skill in the game, yes even better then Bolt Escape as it allows the NB to only enter and exit combat at will, but it also gives him 100% control of an engagement and will always have his opponent playing defense. Bolt Escape NEVER gives the Sorc a 100% offensive advantage and the ability to control the tempo of a fight...its one thing to run and reposition, its a whole other matter to appear and dissapear at will, with a Radiant Magelight skill that will only reveal them if they are 1m from you, while also getting all the bonuses of sneak attack damage multiple times during a fight.

I am all about nerfing the duration of Detect Pots, I think they do last a tad bit too long, but making Cloak immune to detect pots alltogether will just make the most powerful burst class in the game even more powerful, and Cloak will have no viable counters, RML will require you to get mega close to the NB to be feared to death, that is if it even works and its bugged most of the time.

Can someone please explain the reasoning behind this. I can't for the life of me see how this could be balanced, every other class will be at a complete disadvantage against this except other Nightblades. It will then just play a game of who can Cloak the most.

If this change is to go through, then Radiant Magelight needs a HUGE buff, its reveal radius needs to be increased tremendously if its to be a viable counter to Cloak which according to its tooltip it is because it clearly states "Reveal hidden and invisible enemies"

I just want confirmation...are you changing Cloak so Detect Pots no longer work against it?

I literally never use detect pots and I have no trouble killing NB's, and who uses Radiant Magelight anymore? Detect potions never should have worked against cloak and I'm glad they are finally making it useful. L2P.

haha funny guy!

eventide03b14a_ESO · June 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

cloak, fear, sap/funnel, veil, several CC abilities. All heal/avoid damage. You sound like a ganker complaining because he lost a fight once someone found him and engaged in melee.

And you sound condescending; I run with organized guild groups just as much as I solo with a 2h build. I'm well aware of NB damage mitigation options, but HoTs and heals based on kills don't do much in the insanely low TTK environment. NBs (especially us Argonian ones) used to have nice self-heals from potions, but that was done away with in 1.6. Fear is useful for a couple seconds before they break it (unless they're already cc immune), veil has a small radius and is stationary (ie easily avoidable), and using abilities (among other things) instantly takes you out of cloak. Cloak still isn't reliable/fixed to this day, and fixing detect pots is one way to help it work like it always should have.

you mean to be OP as hell, k right. i know youre a NB but 1v1 fights against this would be an absolute Nightmare if this change happens. We shouldnt have to carry detect pots to fight an equal fight in the first place. if anything they need to make it so you can spot a NB if they are standing right in front of your crosshair, then take away the pots. that would be fair imo.

Why not just change the spell so that it roots them and makes them glow when they cast it? Seriously, L2P.

cozmon3c_ESO · June 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

cloak, fear, sap/funnel, veil, several CC abilities. All heal/avoid damage. You sound like a ganker complaining because he lost a fight once someone found him and engaged in melee.

And you sound condescending; I run with organized guild groups just as much as I solo with a 2h build. I'm well aware of NB damage mitigation options, but HoTs and heals based on kills don't do much in the insanely low TTK environment. NBs (especially us Argonian ones) used to have nice self-heals from potions, but that was done away with in 1.6. Fear is useful for a couple seconds before they break it (unless they're already cc immune), veil has a small radius and is stationary (ie easily avoidable), and using abilities (among other things) instantly takes you out of cloak. Cloak still isn't reliable/fixed to this day, and fixing detect pots is one way to help it work like it always should have.

you mean to be OP as hell, k right. i know youre a NB but 1v1 fights against this would be an absolute Nightmare if this change happens. We shouldnt have to carry detect pots to fight an equal fight in the first place. if anything they need to make it so you can spot a NB if they are standing right in front of your crosshair, then take away the pots. that would be fair imo.

Why not just change the spell so that it roots them and makes them glow when they cast it? Seriously, L2P.

So you want to make a skill that will always put you on the offensive to have no counter, gotcha.

Serious question though, why does the Stealthiest class get the best and most instant cast damage spells in the game that is nearly unavoidable even when you dodge roll???? have fear (again used to put you on offensive again).

God_flakes · June 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

EdTerra wrote: »

Good new, this pot is a pain and it SHOULDN'T be able to replace a spell when our spell bar is restricted to 5 spell * 2
now use spells who were designed for counter our cloak.
no more *** pot who give you crit spell + magicka + regen magicka + detection, that's ridiculous.

Buuuuuuut, stamina nb will be gods with those patch, "INFINITE trololol I dodge everything" + this....
They will have an incredible escape, even sorc will be jealous...

Right because all the time i spent leveling Alchemy to 50, running around the world competing with other players to gather the needed plants to make these pots should just be tossed out the window for your precious Cloak.....my time investment should mean nothing.

Oh buy them you say? its a significant Gold Investment to buy Detect Pots(The good tri stat ones) so the person using them is giving up just as much, perhaps more, to counter 1 skill on your bar....I wish Bolt Escape cost thousands of gold pert stack to counter instead of a simple gap closer......

Can't wait to laugh at your QQ in Ts tonight! The drunker I get the more I will tee hee. I wish this was changing as of tonight!! I can spam dark cloak for infinity and never run out of mana.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · June 2015

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

cloak, fear, sap/funnel, veil, several CC abilities. All heal/avoid damage. You sound like a ganker complaining because he lost a fight once someone found him and engaged in melee.

And you sound condescending; I run with organized guild groups just as much as I solo with a 2h build. I'm well aware of NB damage mitigation options, but HoTs and heals based on kills don't do much in the insanely low TTK environment. NBs (especially us Argonian ones) used to have nice self-heals from potions, but that was done away with in 1.6. Fear is useful for a couple seconds before they break it (unless they're already cc immune), veil has a small radius and is stationary (ie easily avoidable), and using abilities (among other things) instantly takes you out of cloak. Cloak still isn't reliable/fixed to this day, and fixing detect pots is one way to help it work like it always should have.

I didn't mention any heal from kill abilities I don't think. Veil is for you, not the enemy so I don't know what you're trying to say there. I just want NB's to own up and say they want NB streak is all. Should be glad you actually have an ability coming close to that.

What I was trying to say with veil was, is if your enemy moves out of your veil, as a melee build you are then forced to follow your enemy, thus making your veil no longer useful. That veil has a small radius and is stationary makes it easier for enemies to avoid and thus become less useful for close-range and mobile fighting since you often have to move out of its protection to keep up with enemies. When I used to run bow more offensively I would sit in my veil if the enemy moved out of it, but then they would usually just keep running to get out of bow range and just get away. I don't think it's an insult or accurate to say that Cloak is NB streak, and really any balance issues with cloak will occur with Magicka-based NBs, so just a subset of the class and its numerous builds. Streak damages and CCs while teleporting you, and doesn't break if you want to cast something else between Streaks. Cloak, on the other hand, does nothing to enemies and completely removes you from fighting as casting any ability will bring you out of cloak. Not saying one is better, just that they operate differently.

OdinForge · June 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

cloak, fear, sap/funnel, veil, several CC abilities. All heal/avoid damage. You sound like a ganker complaining because he lost a fight once someone found him and engaged in melee.

And you sound condescending; I run with organized guild groups just as much as I solo with a 2h build. I'm well aware of NB damage mitigation options, but HoTs and heals based on kills don't do much in the insanely low TTK environment. NBs (especially us Argonian ones) used to have nice self-heals from potions, but that was done away with in 1.6. Fear is useful for a couple seconds before they break it (unless they're already cc immune), veil has a small radius and is stationary (ie easily avoidable), and using abilities (among other things) instantly takes you out of cloak. Cloak still isn't reliable/fixed to this day, and fixing detect pots is one way to help it work like it always should have.

I didn't mention any heal from kill abilities I don't think. Veil is for you, not the enemy so I don't know what you're trying to say there. I just want NB's to own up and say they want NB streak is all. Should be glad you actually have an ability coming close to that.

What I was trying to say with veil was, is if your enemy moves out of your veil, as a melee build you are then forced to follow your enemy, thus making your veil no longer useful. That veil has a small radius and is stationary makes it easier for enemies to avoid and thus become less useful for close-range and mobile fighting since you often have to move out of its protection to keep up with enemies. When I used to run bow more offensively I would sit in my veil if the enemy moved out of it, but then they would usually just keep running to get out of bow range and just get away. I don't think it's an insult or accurate to say that Cloak is NB streak, and really any balance issues with cloak will occur with Magicka-based NBs, so just a subset of the class and its numerous builds. Streak damages and CCs while teleporting you, and doesn't break if you want to cast something else between Streaks. Cloak, on the other hand, does nothing to enemies and completely removes you from fighting as casting any ability will bring you out of cloak. Not saying one is better, just that they operate differently.

Seriously, who even uses veil in PvP anymore. Veil is no corrosive armor, that's for sure.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · June 2015

OdinForge wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Detection should only apply to 'hidden' enemies, not invisible ones, so this is a necessary fix.

Stamina NBs generally only have enough magicka to use cloak ~3 times in a row (assuming they have full magicka to start with). Many things still pop you out of cloak's invisibility anyways, it's usually on the second or third time I hit the ability that it actually sticks, if at all. This won't dramatically change things. Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

cloak, fear, sap/funnel, veil, several CC abilities. All heal/avoid damage. You sound like a ganker complaining because he lost a fight once someone found him and engaged in melee.

And you sound condescending; I run with organized guild groups just as much as I solo with a 2h build. I'm well aware of NB damage mitigation options, but HoTs and heals based on kills don't do much in the insanely low TTK environment. NBs (especially us Argonian ones) used to have nice self-heals from potions, but that was done away with in 1.6. Fear is useful for a couple seconds before they break it (unless they're already cc immune), veil has a small radius and is stationary (ie easily avoidable), and using abilities (among other things) instantly takes you out of cloak. Cloak still isn't reliable/fixed to this day, and fixing detect pots is one way to help it work like it always should have.

I didn't mention any heal from kill abilities I don't think. Veil is for you, not the enemy so I don't know what you're trying to say there. I just want NB's to own up and say they want NB streak is all. Should be glad you actually have an ability coming close to that.

What I was trying to say with veil was, is if your enemy moves out of your veil, as a melee build you are then forced to follow your enemy, thus making your veil no longer useful. That veil has a small radius and is stationary makes it easier for enemies to avoid and thus become less useful for close-range and mobile fighting since you often have to move out of its protection to keep up with enemies. When I used to run bow more offensively I would sit in my veil if the enemy moved out of it, but then they would usually just keep running to get out of bow range and just get away. I don't think it's an insult or accurate to say that Cloak is NB streak, and really any balance issues with cloak will occur with Magicka-based NBs, so just a subset of the class and its numerous builds. Streak damages and CCs while teleporting you, and doesn't break if you want to cast something else between Streaks. Cloak, on the other hand, does nothing to enemies and completely removes you from fighting as casting any ability will bring you out of cloak. Not saying one is better, just that they operate differently.

Seriously, who even uses veil in PvP anymore. Much better served by soul tether / soul harvest, or a non class based ultimate like meteor.

Veil is no corrosive armor, that's for sure.

Yep. I use Soul Harvest on my main bar and Soul Tether on my off-bar when soloing. In guild groups though Veil is still used, but it's kind of a nice extra not an essential ult, and takes practice to know when/where to use it most effectively.

eliisra · June 2015

Source? I really dont believe this. Adjusting the timer on detection pots to 10-12 sec, would be more reasonable.

Magicka Nightblades would be unkillable of cloak wasn't revealed by potions. Why I really doubt, it's going to happen.

While Cloak only lasts 2.9 sec, it's a very cheap skill and I can chain it. When playing magicka I can stay hidden forever, just recasting Cloak before it runs out, not hard with decent magicka recovery.

Incoming new master race will be the perma-hidden proxi NB bomber.

Rook_Master · June 2015

100% agree with OP.

It's kind of silly people are defending this move. It's also silly that Zenimax will take a non-issue like NB survivability, and then just completely break Detect Pots.

The only, and I mean the ONLY reason I used Detect Pots was for cloak. Now I might as well throw them in the trash.

Teargrants · June 2015

LF lvling partner for my magicka NB.

Soris · June 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Without any form of class-based instant self heal or damage shield, NBs need a reliable way to avoid damage.

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

And you sound condescending; I run with organized guild groups just as much as I solo with a 2h build. I'm well aware of NB damage mitigation options, but HoTs and heals based on kills don't do much in the insanely low TTK environment. NBs (especially us Argonian ones) used to have nice self-heals from potions, but that was done away with in 1.6. Fear is useful for a couple seconds before they break it (unless they're already cc immune), veil has a small radius and is stationary (ie easily avoidable), and using abilities (among other things) instantly takes you out of cloak. Cloak still isn't reliable/fixed to this day, and fixing detect pots is one way to help it work like it always should have.

Well if you play stamina build you wouldn't want any class heals in first place. Rally and Vigor do the job good enough more than any class heal. And as a magicka build there is Healing Ward. Even most current solo templar/dk builds use it as main heal becasue big shiel+big heal is too good to miss. And that' pretty much what you need with shadow image/cloak

This "BUT NIGHTBLADES HAVE NO CLASS HEALS :' (((" argument is getting really old.

Samadhi · June 2015

Nightblade since Beta.

v14 on live servers.

Have both a Bosmer and Breton Nightblade.

Around 2000+ hours clocked on Nightblade.

If Detect potions stop going through Cloak, Cloak will be massively overpowered.

Detect potions are literally the only thing that provides counters against my magicka build -- personally endorse them so much because people having no counter gets boring for me.

Caltrops --> I buff with Retreating Maneuvers and Cloak right through it
Caltrops + Oils on the breach --> Same thing, then run up behind the people dumping oils and jump them.

Radiant Magelight --> I weave in and out so that the Detection range keeps breaking; it is not instantaneous so this gives me the ability to weave in and out from a target to harass them with melee attacks from invisibility

AoEs --> I just move out of range and know that the person spamming them doesn't know where I am and is burning resources on nothing -- personal favourite is Nightblades; like to Cloak up and Concealed Weapon them once, move back out of range while they spam off all their Magicka on Fear, then go back in for the kill.

Nightblade spamming Piercing Mark on me --> lolno, Purged each time.

If Detect potions are being nerfed then Radiant Magelight must have its range doubled at least -- anything short of this and it's just going to be me and other Magickablades harassing people all over Cyrodiil with stupidly high KDRs.
Detection Potions are currently the only meaningful counter to Cloak -- I do not personally die to any of the other counters most Nightblades like to put out there.

There will be Nightblades out there that support this change to Detection potions -- when Cloak gets the Bolt Escape treatment because there are no more counters to it in game, they will also be the first to whine.

DDuke · June 2015

Lots of QQ for no reason.

Slot an AoE on your bar (Caltrops, Lightning Flood, Eruption, Jabs, Sap Essence... plenty of options), problem solved.

Also, unless they are getting fixed also, all charge attacks break cloak as well, so spam away.

If anything, this makes combat more skill based and no longer are magicka NBs or other stam NBs a guaranteed kill after I pop a potion.

This especially makes stamina NB vs magicka NB more balanced, if they fix Concealed Weapon going through dodge as well.

That said, I do think they should make invisible enemies shimmer slightly, so if you have a sharp eye you'd be able to spot them, and in general they should work on ways of bringing a lot more depth to the whole stealth gameplay.

Teargrants · June 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Lots of QQ for no reason.

Slot an AoE on your bar (Caltrops, Lightning Flood, Eruption, Jabs, Sap Essence... plenty of options), problem solved.

Also, unless they are getting fixed also, all charge attacks break cloak as well, so spam away.

If anything, this makes combat more skill based and no longer are magicka NBs or other stam NBs a guaranteed kill after I pop a potion.

This especially makes stamina NB vs magicka NB more balanced, if they fix Concealed Weapon going through dodge as well.

That said, I do think they should make invisible enemies shimmer slightly, so if you have a sharp eye you'd be able to spot them, and in general they should work on ways of bringing a lot more depth to the whole stealth gameplay.

Much insightful, such good idea, very counter. I'll impulse permacloak, double taking, nirnhoned NBs to death, why didn't I think of that?

DDuke · June 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lots of QQ for no reason.

Slot an AoE on your bar (Caltrops, Lightning Flood, Eruption, Jabs, Sap Essence... plenty of options), problem solved.

Also, unless they are getting fixed also, all charge attacks break cloak as well, so spam away.

If anything, this makes combat more skill based and no longer are magicka NBs or other stam NBs a guaranteed kill after I pop a potion.

This especially makes stamina NB vs magicka NB more balanced, if they fix Concealed Weapon going through dodge as well.

That said, I do think they should make invisible enemies shimmer slightly, so if you have a sharp eye you'd be able to spot them, and in general they should work on ways of bringing a lot more depth to the whole stealth gameplay.

Much insightful, such good idea, very counter. I'll impulse permacloak, double taking, nirnhoned NBs to death, why didn't I think of that?

I feel like I should point out that Nirnhoned is also getting nerfed, and a NB spamming cloak (since it gets broken by the damage dealing AoE abilities) is dealing no damage.

Samadhi · June 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Lots of QQ for no reason.

Slot an AoE on your bar (Caltrops, Lightning Flood, Eruption, Jabs, Sap Essence... plenty of options), problem solved.

Also, unless they are getting fixed also, all charge attacks break cloak as well, so spam away.

If anything, this makes combat more skill based and no longer are magicka NBs or other stam NBs a guaranteed kill after I pop a potion.

This especially makes stamina NB vs magicka NB more balanced, if they fix Concealed Weapon going through dodge as well.

That said, I do think they should make invisible enemies shimmer slightly, so if you have a sharp eye you'd be able to spot them, and in general they should work on ways of bringing a lot more depth to the whole stealth gameplay.

Because Staminablades will not have any reliable means to counter Cloak and Magickablades will only have Detonation to counter Dodge roll?

DDuke · June 2015

Samadhi wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lots of QQ for no reason.

Slot an AoE on your bar (Caltrops, Lightning Flood, Eruption, Jabs, Sap Essence... plenty of options), problem solved.

Also, unless they are getting fixed also, all charge attacks break cloak as well, so spam away.

If anything, this makes combat more skill based and no longer are magicka NBs or other stam NBs a guaranteed kill after I pop a potion.

This especially makes stamina NB vs magicka NB more balanced, if they fix Concealed Weapon going through dodge as well.

That said, I do think they should make invisible enemies shimmer slightly, so if you have a sharp eye you'd be able to spot them, and in general they should work on ways of bringing a lot more depth to the whole stealth gameplay.

Because Staminablades will not have any reliable means to counter Cloak and Magickablades will only have Detonation to counter Dodge roll?

Pretty much.

You can do Steel Tornado as a stamina NB, or caltrops, but those are valuable skill slots we're talking about and you can play around it with Shadow Image.

Regardless, it's better than the current meta, where you just pop a detection potion and ambush+surprise attack for a dead magicka NB.

Nirn nerfs will also play a big role in this match up in the future.