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Grinding Etiquette

  • Cernow
    Cernow
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    Sacadon wrote: »
    No I didn't. That word is just part of a definition I copied from another website. Also why it's at the bottom. Grinding in certain areas could certainly ruin someone's immersion I suppose, but even though it's relevant, it had nothing to do with the post.

    The context of griefing in this case is when another player has clear intentions to negatively interfere with another's gameplay. Gameplay beng defined as repeatedly killing mobs for XP.

    Others may create polls to qq, but I wanted to hear what others thought about it. Instead I get to hear others qq, it's so backwards. So no it's not about me and therefore nothing to deal with as you say. My stance on it (as stated earlier) is to try to communicate first, then just leave if they continue and come back later.

    So you copied the definition from another site and say it's got nothing to do with your post anyway. So why use it? You didn't mention this was copied from elsewhere, so we could only assume it was your words, your definition, your opinion.

    Anyway, to say someone competing for the same mobs for xps is "griefing" is stretching the definition beyond its limits anyway. If you were talking about someone repeatedly killing quest mobs to deliberately prevent someone else completing the quest then you might have a case. But grinding mobs are fair game for everyone (even if it is annoying if someone rudely barges in).

    Usually the situation can be resolved amicably. If it can't, I usually remind the other person that "what goes around comes around".
  • helediron
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    newtinmpls wrote: »
    Sacadon wrote: »
    [If that happens we (regardless if i am alone or grouped) stop killing those mobs. One of us follows the tagger, tags same mobs without killing and keeps whispering. The other(s) keeps killing mobs further ahead. Tagger gets zero xp while we still get some until they usually quickly submit.

    What is tagging? And what is the point of it?

    Just curious, 'cause I have no real idea what you are talking about.

    Tagging means you quickly do some damage to mobs so they get aggroed and attack and when they die you get xp from them. Grinders usually first tag mobs to collect them together for AoE kill. If there are multiple players grinding, tagging ensures i get the xp when we kill them.

    This can be abused. Someone can just run along, tag and leave the killing to others. they don't do the work but leech the xp.
    Edited by helediron on July 6, 2015 11:43AM
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • Grampa_Smurf
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    Chaos0720 wrote: »
    When grinding I try to stay out of others areas, but if they continue to run over and try to take then I just simply follow them all over and tag there mobs as well. Good old eye for and eye till they get the hint or they send a friendly group invite. Also if I turn up to an area been farmed I ask for group before destroying every thing in sight.

    Good way to get yourself banned too. Whether or not the people were purposefully taking your mobs would be hard to prove. Openly boasting that your solution is to follow them around and ruin their experience is against the rules. Think before you speak. We cannot say whatever we want. There are rules.


    I really don't think killing open world mobs is against the rules, all I ment was if there following you around you might as well follow them around and share the same kills.

    ps:- They don't bann players for killing mobs even if you think that certain npc was yours or not, if the powers that be where worried about it they would have not put in a shared tag experience system in.

    Edited by Grampa_Smurf on July 6, 2015 11:51AM



    Life isn't measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
  • helediron
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    helediron wrote: »
    I have no trouble others arriving to grind spots. Everyone has equal rights to grind mobs. I believe politeness pays off and that has been actual experience most of the time. It is usually unclear who comes when and people jump away to sell&repair and back. There is no "we were first here". But if a grind spot already has three or more, i go away.

    Only really bad etiquette is those who tag and run ahead to next mobs, leaving others to do killing. If that happens we (regardless if i am alone or grouped) stop killing those mobs. One of us follows the tagger, tags same mobs without killing and keeps whispering. The other(s) keeps killing mobs further ahead. Tagger gets zero xp while we still get some until they usually quickly submit.

    Questers are sometimes hard to spot, especially when i have fallen into grinding "zone". That has caused some whispers to me - like "don't steal my xp", "give me a chance", or "aargh, take them away". I think questers have a priority over grinders. I try to apologize and ask if they need help. If not i just go to sell&repair. Especially on lower levels when leveling an alt, surprisingly many gladly accept my offer of help, and i have often quested together awhile or did dolmens or WBs.

    Afaik, None of the grinding spots only have quest specific NPCs in them which would affect the abilities of someone questing to complete that quest. They all have core quest mobs which tend to be out of the way of the main grind collection spots so that those grinding and those questing rarely have to fight for the same XP if they stick to their respective roles.

    Some questers might want to get extra XP by killing mobs that I grind, which I usually don't mind since they'll be there for 1, maybe 2, pulls before going on their merry way. If they stay and grind some more however then I'll either out-dps them or try and get them to join a group to avoid needless competition.
    I still think questers should have a priority, for two reasons:
    - Especially at lower levels we are quite intimidating sight to a new players. I tend to pull the mobs towards other grinders so we can do more efficiently AoE phase. Sometimes i have mistaken a quester as fellow grinder and they ran away! Sometimes there has been an audience sort of waiting their turn.
    - questers anyway stay only momentarily and soon continue to next quest.

    If they stay i agree with you. Then they are grinding and no priorities left.

    Having said all that, i still wonder why ZOS nerfed Craglorn. The delves were perfect places to earn XP. They are more meaningful than killing zombies and they were instances. The upcoming 20% buff mean nothing after they reduced everything to small fraction. IIRC Welwas were 480 xp at some point, now 140. Buffing 20% means about 170. Nobody returns to Crag from that "puff". We wouldn't even *have* to discuss about proper grinding etiquette if Craglorn XP is restored.
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • nastuug
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    Call on your grinding buds to out-grind them so they do nothing but waste time
    Wait, you're mad because people come and tag your mobs? Oh how glorious your 4th of July weekend must've been. :)
  • Sacadon
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    Cernow wrote: »
    Sacadon wrote: »
    No I didn't. That word is just part of a definition I copied from another website. Also why it's at the bottom. Grinding in certain areas could certainly ruin someone's immersion I suppose, but even though it's relevant, it had nothing to do with the post.

    The context of griefing in this case is when another player has clear intentions to negatively interfere with another's gameplay. Gameplay beng defined as repeatedly killing mobs for XP.

    Others may create polls to qq, but I wanted to hear what others thought about it. Instead I get to hear others qq, it's so backwards. So no it's not about me and therefore nothing to deal with as you say. My stance on it (as stated earlier) is to try to communicate first, then just leave if they continue and come back later.

    So you copied the definition from another site and say it's got nothing to do with your post anyway. So why use it? You didn't mention this was copied from elsewhere, so we could only assume it was your words, your definition, your opinion.

    Anyway, to say someone competing for the same mobs for xps is "griefing" is stretching the definition beyond its limits anyway. If you were talking about someone repeatedly killing quest mobs to deliberately prevent someone else completing the quest then you might have a case. But grinding mobs are fair game for everyone (even if it is annoying if someone rudely barges in).

    Usually the situation can be resolved amicably. If it can't, I usually remind the other person that "what goes around comes around".

    I copied it from another website just to be helpful for those that wanted to review it. I'm fine with others assuming. They will even when others try to remove opportunities for it. Such as the case you just did. I went to the effort to contextualize how griefing was intended in the poll and how immersion could be related, but wasn't. Instead, you just added meaning to things said like this: "and say it's got nothing to do with your post anyway".

    So back on topic... If I know that when I go kill mobs 2 other people are grinding takes their XP away, I'm knowingly taking for myself at their expense. While rude, it's not griefing. But if I'm intentionally and repeatedly interfering with someone in the middle of nowhere trying to pull 1 or 2 mobs for whatever reason and ignoring any attempts at communication, that is griefing.

    Yes mobs are for everyone, no one owns them yadda yadda... Please say it again though as if you're actually informing me or others of something new. Full of entertainment. The point here is that grinding is a form of game-play, just like questing. No the mobs are not owned, neither are quest NPC's, but the enjoyment for others can be interfered with just the same.

    Edited by Sacadon on July 6, 2015 12:52PM
  • Sacadon
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    helediron wrote: »
    helediron wrote: »
    I have no trouble others arriving to grind spots. Everyone has equal rights to grind mobs. I believe politeness pays off and that has been actual experience most of the time. It is usually unclear who comes when and people jump away to sell&repair and back. There is no "we were first here". But if a grind spot already has three or more, i go away.

    Only really bad etiquette is those who tag and run ahead to next mobs, leaving others to do killing. If that happens we (regardless if i am alone or grouped) stop killing those mobs. One of us follows the tagger, tags same mobs without killing and keeps whispering. The other(s) keeps killing mobs further ahead. Tagger gets zero xp while we still get some until they usually quickly submit.

    Questers are sometimes hard to spot, especially when i have fallen into grinding "zone". That has caused some whispers to me - like "don't steal my xp", "give me a chance", or "aargh, take them away". I think questers have a priority over grinders. I try to apologize and ask if they need help. If not i just go to sell&repair. Especially on lower levels when leveling an alt, surprisingly many gladly accept my offer of help, and i have often quested together awhile or did dolmens or WBs.

    Afaik, None of the grinding spots only have quest specific NPCs in them which would affect the abilities of someone questing to complete that quest. They all have core quest mobs which tend to be out of the way of the main grind collection spots so that those grinding and those questing rarely have to fight for the same XP if they stick to their respective roles.

    Some questers might want to get extra XP by killing mobs that I grind, which I usually don't mind since they'll be there for 1, maybe 2, pulls before going on their merry way. If they stay and grind some more however then I'll either out-dps them or try and get them to join a group to avoid needless competition.
    I still think questers should have a priority, for two reasons:
    - Especially at lower levels we are quite intimidating sight to a new players. I tend to pull the mobs towards other grinders so we can do more efficiently AoE phase. Sometimes i have mistaken a quester as fellow grinder and they ran away! Sometimes there has been an audience sort of waiting their turn.
    - questers anyway stay only momentarily and soon continue to next quest.

    If they stay i agree with you. Then they are grinding and no priorities left.

    Having said all that, i still wonder why ZOS nerfed Craglorn. The delves were perfect places to earn XP. They are more meaningful than killing zombies and they were instances. The upcoming 20% buff mean nothing after they reduced everything to small fraction. IIRC Welwas were 480 xp at some point, now 140. Buffing 20% means about 170. Nobody returns to Crag from that "puff". We wouldn't even *have* to discuss about proper grinding etiquette if Craglorn XP is restored.

    Agreed on giving questers priority when the mobs are near a questline and certainly if the mobs are part of the questline. As a player, as long as you are considerate of others it will cover just about all unique circumstances.

    Yeah, funny how they were able to instantly nerf XP in Craglorn with a hotfix, but they won't unnerf it with that hotfix? Instead, they'd much rather watch us contend for a very small set of game resources at the greater risk of animosity. I really would like to hear the thought process behind this.

    Edited by Sacadon on July 6, 2015 12:54PM
  • Sacadon
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    Reporting someone for killing things more quickly than you? Seems a bit harsh. Makes me wonder/hope that people who over-report can face the ban hammer as well.
    Agreed, and those who over report most certainly should.

  • Garion
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    Be annoyed
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  • Sacadon
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    nastuug wrote: »
    Wait, you're mad because people come and tag your mobs? Oh how glorious your 4th of July weekend must've been. :)
    Naaa, was a nice weekend and recent events were tame compared to past. Just thought it'd be interesting to get others thoughts on this. Sad day that posting in forums is synonymous with being mad or qq, but that does seem to be most posts in ESO forums these days.
  • Fissh
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    I play alts and quest. I do not grind. If you are mindlessly grinding where I need to quest, I too will hop in front of you to kill mobs. As you have already cleared most of what I need. Please, let's not pretend grinding has any place in the order of which one should have priority. THIS POST IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS GAME. I hope your grind spots are even further nerfed when quest xp is buffed.
    <X-Raided>
  • Fissh
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    Yinmaigao wrote: »
    It is still really damn annoying if you pull 3 or 4 to aoe down and someone comes and drops aoes on your pile or worse, pulls them off of you while you are clumping them up.

    The big problems are two-fold: ZoS making you hate other players for ruining your efficiency, and people having no [snip] to give for other people's quality of life.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

    So "hate" and report. You need a hug.
    P.S. Thx for the pre clumps of mobs. I appreciate you herding for me.
    Seriously though, your reporting is probably more considered griefing a player than your reasons for hate. Head and arse should not be one.....
    <X-Raided>
  • I_killed_Vivec
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    "Several attempts are made to communicate with this player to no avail and they are clearly not just ignorant to their actions but intentionally dismissing the impact to your quality of game-play."

    It depends on the communication. If it's "I was here first" or "These mobs are mine" how can you expect to be taken seriously?

    Indeed the person claiming the mobs, shouting out "Hey, I was here first, these are MINE!", could be seen as being the more aggressive...

    As for dismissing the quality of your game-play, given that the mobs are there for all then someone else grinding them isn't doing anything wrong. Their intent is to grind, how can you say they are intentionally spoiling your right to the mobs any more than you are spoiling theirs?

    In fact, while it is more efficient to pair up to grind, these grinding teams have a negative impact on other players who want to grind. They work efficiently to strip an area of all its resources, leaving others with nothing - and that really does impact the quality of game-play...
  • k9mouse
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    I will try to invite them or combine groups so that we can share XP / loot. Nerft XP is still better then no XP. If the "leecher" will not help their follow players and is destroying the grind pattern and NPC spawn timers, then my group will start to follow them around and leech of THIER pulls. I much rather help them to level (combine / invite to one LARGE group), but if the other person is greedy, then that person will forced my group to become a leecher.

    If a quester just running through, does the quest then leave, then I will do nothing.
  • k9mouse
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    When grinding I try to stay out of others areas, but if they continue to run over and try to take then I just simply follow them all over and tag there mobs as well. Good old eye for and eye till they get the hint or they send a friendly group invite. Also if I turn up to an area been farmed I ask for group before destroying every thing in sight.

    I feel the same way and do the same thing. I will send the invite 1st sometimes or ask the crown to invite that person.

  • Cherryblossom
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    Call on your grinding buds to out-grind them so they do nothing but waste time
    Grind quicker if thats what you want to do, it becomes a race then, but don't expect me to stop grinding just because you and friend have decided this is your patch!

    to believe there is any Etiquette to grinding is foolish, mobs are mobs, they belong to no one and everyone has their defined play time.

    If you are so worried about it, may be you should be; 1. more tolerant 2. move on and let them have their turn!
  • Sacadon
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    Fissh wrote: »
    I play alts and quest. I do not grind. If you are mindlessly grinding where I need to quest, I too will hop in front of you to kill mobs. As you have already cleared most of what I need. Please, let's not pretend grinding has any place in the order of which one should have priority. THIS POST IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS GAME. I hope your grind spots are even further nerfed when quest xp is buffed.

    My belief is that those with the attitude of only one can exist successfully is flawed. In this case your statement gives me the impression that grinding is what is wrong with this game. We can have both if we want it, but not if you are unwilling to be considerate of others. And just because others have this mindset does not excuse us from having it too.
  • Sacadon
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    "Several attempts are made to communicate with this player to no avail and they are clearly not just ignorant to their actions but intentionally dismissing the impact to your quality of game-play."

    It depends on the communication. If it's "I was here first" or "These mobs are mine" how can you expect to be taken seriously?

    Indeed the person claiming the mobs, shouting out "Hey, I was here first, these are MINE!", could be seen as being the more aggressive...
    Agreed. My comms (unless I know the players, in that case who knows what I'll say) are usually: "Are you grinding?". This usually works fine as an opener.
    "As for dismissing the quality of your game-play, given that the mobs are there for all then someone else grinding them isn't doing anything wrong. Their intent is to grind, how can you say they are intentionally spoiling your right to the mobs any more than you are spoiling theirs?
    You added "spoiling my right", I never said that anywhere nor did I imply it. I intentionally said quality of gameplay. But for the purposes of this discussion. Their involvement significantly impacts the progression of myself and the other player I was with. Hence the reduction in quality/XP.
    "In fact, while it is more efficient to pair up to grind, these grinding teams have a negative impact on other players who want to grind. They work efficiently to strip an area of all its resources, leaving others with nothing - and that really does impact the quality of game-play...
    Agreed on this one.

  • Cherryblossom
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    Call on your grinding buds to out-grind them so they do nothing but waste time
    Fissh wrote: »
    I play alts and quest. I do not grind. If you are mindlessly grinding where I need to quest, I too will hop in front of you to kill mobs. As you have already cleared most of what I need. Please, let's not pretend grinding has any place in the order of which one should have priority. THIS POST IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS GAME. I hope your grind spots are even further nerfed when quest xp is buffed.

    I don't think I've been to or heard of a grind spot that is in an area where Mobs are required for quests, but even if they are, you only need to tag some of the mobs and you will get the rewards! I don't see your point.
    I don't grind but I would defend the rights of grinders if that is how they want to play.
    Whats wrong with this game in my opinion is; Lag, bugs and bad decisions by ZOS.
  • Rook_Master
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    Report them for griefing and leave
    Until ZoS changes the way XP works, I assume that anyone over 2 is griefing my grind spot.

    If they don't want to deal with the reports, they can change the way XP works.
  • Sacadon
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    Grind quicker if thats what you want to do, it becomes a race then, but don't expect me to stop grinding just because you and friend have decided this is your patch!

    to believe there is any Etiquette to grinding is foolish, mobs are mobs, they belong to no one and everyone has their defined play time.

    If you are so worried about it, may be you should be; 1. more tolerant 2. move on and let them have their turn!

    There is some code (aka: etiquette) amongst us players and most of those I grind with or had the pleasure of doing so have it as well. So it may benefit you more if you were to keep an open mind rather than calling others foolish. But maybe not.

    This is about being considerate of other players and how your actions affect their experience. Since none of the mobs in this game are owned, ownership is irrelevant.

    I find it fascinating how so many want an MMO experience, but are sooo quick to not GAF about anyone but themselves (not saying or implying this is you).
    Edited by Sacadon on July 6, 2015 2:36PM
  • RavenSkylord
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    Griefing would be a player going out of their way completely to ruin others experience of playing the game. If you leave an area and that player follows you, then you might have a valid argument for reporting for griefing. But as grinding in the manner you are referring is outside the intended mechanics of the game, then this argument in entirely moot. That devs have taken the time to nerf grind spots in the past should be a pretty clear indication that you are not following the games intent. With an overabundance of ways to play the game, standing in one area killing mobs is hardly needed. From questing to crafting to dungeons and even changing armor/weapon sets all give experience enough to level any character.

    The grinders are more likely to fall under griefing, just by virtue of wanting an area to themself and trying to "communicate " this in area chat. It in itself is a self centered attitude within the game. That this and other similar threads exist shows the truth in this statement. Obviously the OP is trying to differentiate grinding from questing, which indicates it is purely other grinders that are the problem here.

    In response to players not communicating in area chat, I myself turn this off as it is routinely annoying and off putting. And not solely because it might contain people claiming areas to grind. Just listening to the idiotic things people do on mic is enough to turn mine off. From foul language and behavior, such as personal burping contests, not to mention people with kids screaming in the background, repeating the same thing over and over every 20 seconds. Plenty of reasons exist to not be communicative
  • Sacadon
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    Griefing would be a player going out of their way completely to ruin others experience of playing the game. If you leave an area and that player follows you, then you might have a valid argument for reporting for griefing. But as grinding in the manner you are referring is outside the intended mechanics of the game, then this argument in entirely moot. That devs have taken the time to nerf grind spots in the past should be a pretty clear indication that you are not following the games intent. With an overabundance of ways to play the game, standing in one area killing mobs is hardly needed. From questing to crafting to dungeons and even changing armor/weapon sets all give experience enough to level any character.

    The grinders are more likely to fall under griefing, just by virtue of wanting an area to themself and trying to "communicate " this in area chat. It in itself is a self centered attitude within the game. That this and other similar threads exist shows the truth in this statement. Obviously the OP is trying to differentiate grinding from questing, which indicates it is purely other grinders that are the problem here.

    In response to players not communicating in area chat, I myself turn this off as it is routinely annoying and off putting. And not solely because it might contain people claiming areas to grind. Just listening to the idiotic things people do on mic is enough to turn mine off. From foul language and behavior, such as personal burping contests, not to mention people with kids screaming in the background, repeating the same thing over and over every 20 seconds. Plenty of reasons exist to not be communicative

    Yeah, zone chat is permanently off for me and only put area chat in my view when grinding to ensure I don't miss someone trying to communicate to me. Yes this is about grinders messing with other grinders and asking others in general to be more considerate.

    I used to think that ZOS was anti-grind until the pattern emerged that they only nerf areas that negatively impact others or become highly public + exploitative. There are still so many other areas left untouched. These areas are such that they have little to no chance to interfere with questing. And they even boosted XP for ginding in Cyrodiil delves. So I don't think their stance is so B/W.

    Edited by Sacadon on July 6, 2015 2:51PM
  • RavenSkylord
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    Sacadon wrote: »
    Griefing would be a player going out of their way completely to ruin others experience of playing the game. If you leave an area and that player follows you, then you might have a valid argument for reporting for griefing. But as grinding in the manner you are referring is outside the intended mechanics of the game, then this argument in entirely moot. That devs have taken the time to nerf grind spots in the past should be a pretty clear indication that you are not following the games intent. With an overabundance of ways to play the game, standing in one area killing mobs is hardly needed. From questing to crafting to dungeons and even changing armor/weapon sets all give experience enough to level any character.

    The grinders are more likely to fall under griefing, just by virtue of wanting an area to themself and trying to "communicate " this in area chat. It in itself is a self centered attitude within the game. That this and other similar threads exist shows the truth in this statement. Obviously the OP is trying to differentiate grinding from questing, which indicates it is purely other grinders that are the problem here.

    In response to players not communicating in area chat, I myself turn this off as it is routinely annoying and off putting. And not solely because it might contain people claiming areas to grind. Just listening to the idiotic things people do on mic is enough to turn mine off. From foul language and behavior, such as personal burping contests, not to mention people with kids screaming in the background, repeating the same thing over and over every 20 seconds. Plenty of reasons exist to not be communicative

    Yeah, zone chat is permanently off for me and only put area chat in my view when grinding to ensure I don't miss someone trying to communicate to me. Yes this is about grinders messing with other grinders and asking others in general to be more considerate.

    I used to think that ZOS was anti-grind until the pattern emerged that they only nerf areas that negatively impact others or become highly public + exploitative. There are still so many other areas left untouched. These areas are such that they have little to no chance to interfere with questing. And they even boosted XP for ginding in Cyrodiil delves. So I don't think their stance is so B/W.

    You are correct that it isn't black and white, but there seems to be enough evidence that areas that get out of hand get addressed. It is impossible to do away with grinding as an MMO simply has to have respawning for obvious reasomd, and as long as enemies respawn there will always be people waiting for respawn. Though I doubt any griefing report they receive that begins with "I was in (location) grinding mobs..." will be given any real attention
  • RavenSkylord
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    Sacadon wrote: »
    Grind quicker if thats what you want to do, it becomes a race then, but don't expect me to stop grinding just because you and friend have decided this is your patch!

    to believe there is any Etiquette to grinding is foolish, mobs are mobs, they belong to no one and everyone has their defined play time.

    If you are so worried about it, may be you should be; 1. more tolerant 2. move on and let them have their turn!

    There is some code (aka: etiquette) amongst us players and most of those I grind with or had the pleasure of doing so have it as well. So it may benefit you more if you were to keep an open mind rather than calling others foolish. But maybe not.

    This is about being considerate of other players and how your actions affect their experience. Since none of the mobs in this game are owned, ownership is irrelevant.

    I find it fascinating how so many want an MMO experience, but are sooo quick to not GAF about anyone but themselves (not saying or implying this is you).

    Absolutely right about players not caring about others, though this seems to be more a societal issue, as opposed to an MMO issue. And really little we can do about that besides ensuring we ourselves don't fall into that behavior.

    Been said before, players leaving others with the mobs to kill the boss themself. Can't count how many times I have been credited im the quest but got no exp from the boss. An area that should be addressed, sometimes not even players doing, I enter boss room just as boss dies giving me notification of completing. Which is more a mechanic bug then anything
  • Titansteele
    Titansteele
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    Other
    Sounds like an occupational hazard to me, not worth a second thought.
    Guild Leader of The Twelve Knights, AD PVE, PVP and Trading Guild on the EU Mega Server

    "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
  • Darklord_Tiberius
    Darklord_Tiberius
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    Call on your grinding buds to out-grind them so they do nothing but waste time
    Sacadon wrote: »
    > Aside from the fact that ZOS creates significant anti-social situations such as reduced XP for a groups of more than 2 combined with a new vertical progression system and no new content.

    > And regardless of whether or not you think grinding is acceptable

    > In the event you are grinding mobs with another player and another one shows up and rapidly starts tagging your pulls (leeching XP) and also jumping in front of mobs and killing them when you pull them. Several attempts are made to communicate with this player to no avail and they are clearly not just ignorant to their actions but intentionally dismissing the impact to your quality of game-play.

    Should you (poll options)?

    Defined: Griefing is the act of chronically causing consternation to other members of an online community, or more specifically, intentionally disrupting the immersion of another player in their gameplay.

    lol....

    You would have never survived in WoW if this is considered griefing for you. WoW would have eaten you alive son.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    I usually do not see an issue with grind spots because if someone is already there, I can' run the pattern I want anyway, so I go somewhere else. It's not so much good manners but for me, efficient grinding means killing as many mobs as I can in the least amount of time. If I can't get near max mob rate, I I don't bother.

    However the other day I was at 13.8 on my Sorcerer. I went to an area that has a large grind spot in two main areas. There was already a duo there doing a pattern covering the whole area. I camped out on one side, the smaller area and ground out the few mobs I needed to get to VR14 then I left. I did not stop them from grinding, just reduced their output some. Another time in the same area, someone invited me to group with them, so I did for a while.

    But if a grind spot is active, I tend to go find another one or come back.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Attorneyatlawl
    Attorneyatlawl
    Community Ambassador
    Report them for griefing and leave
    Ourorboros wrote: »
    I would be seriously surprised if reporting players you think are griefing, especially in this example, was taken seriously by ZOS. And just how long should someone who comes upon you grinding be expected to wait before it's 'their turn'?

    Hm, I'd be surprised if they didn't ;). If you don't know why, I'd recommend re-reading the ToS we all agreed to when we bought and installed the game, activating our accounts only after accepting. Let's check off the ways it would be judged easily as griefing in the OP's scenario...

    The OP's description of griefing is a commonly accepted and widely understood reference: "Griefing is the act of chronically causing consternation to other members of an online community, or more specifically, intentionally disrupting another player in their gameplay."

    So, does this fit? Let's look at it:

    -Mechanic: XP, the primary goal of gameplay in this scenario, is reduced for the victim by the other player's actions.
    -Behavior: Another player repeatedly, purposefully, and persistently works to interrupt the victim's progress and annoy them.
    -Resolution attempt: The victim tries to communicate with the other player to request they stop this action, and ensure that they understand the consequences of their actions.
    -Result: The other player either insultingly, or even politely, shrugs off their disruptive behavior and continues to pester the victim.

    Yes, it absolutely does. Griefing is indeed against the ToS, to boot. The scenario the OP is outlining isn't of another player simply hitting a couple of monsters, or even doing it a bunch of times to try to earn XP themselves in normal gameplay. It is of another player continuously and with ill intent trying to harass the victim, here.

    On a personal basis? I just out-do people such as this hypothetical other player, when it's attempted on my grinding. I have yet to ever report someone to a GM for it, nor do I plan to. However, if it is escalated to rude communication and it becomes obvious that the other player is simply doing it to grief... there's absolutely nothing wrong with someone reporting them. The rules are there, because they are rules. They're not just sitting there to be annoying each time you install the game on a new computer and have to scroll past them to accept.
    Edited by Attorneyatlawl on July 6, 2015 3:43PM

    -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent. =P
    Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!

    -Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
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    ________________
    -In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.
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