No I didn't. That word is just part of a definition I copied from another website. Also why it's at the bottom. Grinding in certain areas could certainly ruin someone's immersion I suppose, but even though it's relevant, it had nothing to do with the post.
The context of griefing in this case is when another player has clear intentions to negatively interfere with another's gameplay. Gameplay beng defined as repeatedly killing mobs for XP.
Others may create polls to qq, but I wanted to hear what others thought about it. Instead I get to hear others qq, it's so backwards. So no it's not about me and therefore nothing to deal with as you say. My stance on it (as stated earlier) is to try to communicate first, then just leave if they continue and come back later.
newtinmpls wrote: »[If that happens we (regardless if i am alone or grouped) stop killing those mobs. One of us follows the tagger, tags same mobs without killing and keeps whispering. The other(s) keeps killing mobs further ahead. Tagger gets zero xp while we still get some until they usually quickly submit.
What is tagging? And what is the point of it?
Just curious, 'cause I have no real idea what you are talking about.
Grampa_Smurf wrote: »When grinding I try to stay out of others areas, but if they continue to run over and try to take then I just simply follow them all over and tag there mobs as well. Good old eye for and eye till they get the hint or they send a friendly group invite. Also if I turn up to an area been farmed I ask for group before destroying every thing in sight.
Good way to get yourself banned too. Whether or not the people were purposefully taking your mobs would be hard to prove. Openly boasting that your solution is to follow them around and ruin their experience is against the rules. Think before you speak. We cannot say whatever we want. There are rules.
I still think questers should have a priority, for two reasons:dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »I have no trouble others arriving to grind spots. Everyone has equal rights to grind mobs. I believe politeness pays off and that has been actual experience most of the time. It is usually unclear who comes when and people jump away to sell&repair and back. There is no "we were first here". But if a grind spot already has three or more, i go away.
Only really bad etiquette is those who tag and run ahead to next mobs, leaving others to do killing. If that happens we (regardless if i am alone or grouped) stop killing those mobs. One of us follows the tagger, tags same mobs without killing and keeps whispering. The other(s) keeps killing mobs further ahead. Tagger gets zero xp while we still get some until they usually quickly submit.
Questers are sometimes hard to spot, especially when i have fallen into grinding "zone". That has caused some whispers to me - like "don't steal my xp", "give me a chance", or "aargh, take them away". I think questers have a priority over grinders. I try to apologize and ask if they need help. If not i just go to sell&repair. Especially on lower levels when leveling an alt, surprisingly many gladly accept my offer of help, and i have often quested together awhile or did dolmens or WBs.
Afaik, None of the grinding spots only have quest specific NPCs in them which would affect the abilities of someone questing to complete that quest. They all have core quest mobs which tend to be out of the way of the main grind collection spots so that those grinding and those questing rarely have to fight for the same XP if they stick to their respective roles.
Some questers might want to get extra XP by killing mobs that I grind, which I usually don't mind since they'll be there for 1, maybe 2, pulls before going on their merry way. If they stay and grind some more however then I'll either out-dps them or try and get them to join a group to avoid needless competition.
No I didn't. That word is just part of a definition I copied from another website. Also why it's at the bottom. Grinding in certain areas could certainly ruin someone's immersion I suppose, but even though it's relevant, it had nothing to do with the post.
The context of griefing in this case is when another player has clear intentions to negatively interfere with another's gameplay. Gameplay beng defined as repeatedly killing mobs for XP.
Others may create polls to qq, but I wanted to hear what others thought about it. Instead I get to hear others qq, it's so backwards. So no it's not about me and therefore nothing to deal with as you say. My stance on it (as stated earlier) is to try to communicate first, then just leave if they continue and come back later.
So you copied the definition from another site and say it's got nothing to do with your post anyway. So why use it? You didn't mention this was copied from elsewhere, so we could only assume it was your words, your definition, your opinion.
Anyway, to say someone competing for the same mobs for xps is "griefing" is stretching the definition beyond its limits anyway. If you were talking about someone repeatedly killing quest mobs to deliberately prevent someone else completing the quest then you might have a case. But grinding mobs are fair game for everyone (even if it is annoying if someone rudely barges in).
Usually the situation can be resolved amicably. If it can't, I usually remind the other person that "what goes around comes around".
I still think questers should have a priority, for two reasons:dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »I have no trouble others arriving to grind spots. Everyone has equal rights to grind mobs. I believe politeness pays off and that has been actual experience most of the time. It is usually unclear who comes when and people jump away to sell&repair and back. There is no "we were first here". But if a grind spot already has three or more, i go away.
Only really bad etiquette is those who tag and run ahead to next mobs, leaving others to do killing. If that happens we (regardless if i am alone or grouped) stop killing those mobs. One of us follows the tagger, tags same mobs without killing and keeps whispering. The other(s) keeps killing mobs further ahead. Tagger gets zero xp while we still get some until they usually quickly submit.
Questers are sometimes hard to spot, especially when i have fallen into grinding "zone". That has caused some whispers to me - like "don't steal my xp", "give me a chance", or "aargh, take them away". I think questers have a priority over grinders. I try to apologize and ask if they need help. If not i just go to sell&repair. Especially on lower levels when leveling an alt, surprisingly many gladly accept my offer of help, and i have often quested together awhile or did dolmens or WBs.
Afaik, None of the grinding spots only have quest specific NPCs in them which would affect the abilities of someone questing to complete that quest. They all have core quest mobs which tend to be out of the way of the main grind collection spots so that those grinding and those questing rarely have to fight for the same XP if they stick to their respective roles.
Some questers might want to get extra XP by killing mobs that I grind, which I usually don't mind since they'll be there for 1, maybe 2, pulls before going on their merry way. If they stay and grind some more however then I'll either out-dps them or try and get them to join a group to avoid needless competition.
- Especially at lower levels we are quite intimidating sight to a new players. I tend to pull the mobs towards other grinders so we can do more efficiently AoE phase. Sometimes i have mistaken a quester as fellow grinder and they ran away! Sometimes there has been an audience sort of waiting their turn.
- questers anyway stay only momentarily and soon continue to next quest.
If they stay i agree with you. Then they are grinding and no priorities left.
Having said all that, i still wonder why ZOS nerfed Craglorn. The delves were perfect places to earn XP. They are more meaningful than killing zombies and they were instances. The upcoming 20% buff mean nothing after they reduced everything to small fraction. IIRC Welwas were 480 xp at some point, now 140. Buffing 20% means about 170. Nobody returns to Crag from that "puff". We wouldn't even *have* to discuss about proper grinding etiquette if Craglorn XP is restored.
Agreed, and those who over report most certainly should.FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »Reporting someone for killing things more quickly than you? Seems a bit harsh. Makes me wonder/hope that people who over-report can face the ban hammer as well.
Naaa, was a nice weekend and recent events were tame compared to past. Just thought it'd be interesting to get others thoughts on this. Sad day that posting in forums is synonymous with being mad or qq, but that does seem to be most posts in ESO forums these days.Wait, you're mad because people come and tag your mobs? Oh how glorious your 4th of July weekend must've been.
It is still really damn annoying if you pull 3 or 4 to aoe down and someone comes and drops aoes on your pile or worse, pulls them off of you while you are clumping them up.
The big problems are two-fold: ZoS making you hate other players for ruining your efficiency, and people having no [snip] to give for other people's quality of life.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]
Grampa_Smurf wrote: »When grinding I try to stay out of others areas, but if they continue to run over and try to take then I just simply follow them all over and tag there mobs as well. Good old eye for and eye till they get the hint or they send a friendly group invite. Also if I turn up to an area been farmed I ask for group before destroying every thing in sight.
I play alts and quest. I do not grind. If you are mindlessly grinding where I need to quest, I too will hop in front of you to kill mobs. As you have already cleared most of what I need. Please, let's not pretend grinding has any place in the order of which one should have priority. THIS POST IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS GAME. I hope your grind spots are even further nerfed when quest xp is buffed.
Agreed. My comms (unless I know the players, in that case who knows what I'll say) are usually: "Are you grinding?". This usually works fine as an opener.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »"Several attempts are made to communicate with this player to no avail and they are clearly not just ignorant to their actions but intentionally dismissing the impact to your quality of game-play."
It depends on the communication. If it's "I was here first" or "These mobs are mine" how can you expect to be taken seriously?
Indeed the person claiming the mobs, shouting out "Hey, I was here first, these are MINE!", could be seen as being the more aggressive...
You added "spoiling my right", I never said that anywhere nor did I imply it. I intentionally said quality of gameplay. But for the purposes of this discussion. Their involvement significantly impacts the progression of myself and the other player I was with. Hence the reduction in quality/XP.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »"As for dismissing the quality of your game-play, given that the mobs are there for all then someone else grinding them isn't doing anything wrong. Their intent is to grind, how can you say they are intentionally spoiling your right to the mobs any more than you are spoiling theirs?
Agreed on this one.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »"In fact, while it is more efficient to pair up to grind, these grinding teams have a negative impact on other players who want to grind. They work efficiently to strip an area of all its resources, leaving others with nothing - and that really does impact the quality of game-play...
I play alts and quest. I do not grind. If you are mindlessly grinding where I need to quest, I too will hop in front of you to kill mobs. As you have already cleared most of what I need. Please, let's not pretend grinding has any place in the order of which one should have priority. THIS POST IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS GAME. I hope your grind spots are even further nerfed when quest xp is buffed.
Cherryblossom wrote: »Grind quicker if thats what you want to do, it becomes a race then, but don't expect me to stop grinding just because you and friend have decided this is your patch!
to believe there is any Etiquette to grinding is foolish, mobs are mobs, they belong to no one and everyone has their defined play time.
If you are so worried about it, may be you should be; 1. more tolerant 2. move on and let them have their turn!
RavenSkylord wrote: »Griefing would be a player going out of their way completely to ruin others experience of playing the game. If you leave an area and that player follows you, then you might have a valid argument for reporting for griefing. But as grinding in the manner you are referring is outside the intended mechanics of the game, then this argument in entirely moot. That devs have taken the time to nerf grind spots in the past should be a pretty clear indication that you are not following the games intent. With an overabundance of ways to play the game, standing in one area killing mobs is hardly needed. From questing to crafting to dungeons and even changing armor/weapon sets all give experience enough to level any character.
The grinders are more likely to fall under griefing, just by virtue of wanting an area to themself and trying to "communicate " this in area chat. It in itself is a self centered attitude within the game. That this and other similar threads exist shows the truth in this statement. Obviously the OP is trying to differentiate grinding from questing, which indicates it is purely other grinders that are the problem here.
In response to players not communicating in area chat, I myself turn this off as it is routinely annoying and off putting. And not solely because it might contain people claiming areas to grind. Just listening to the idiotic things people do on mic is enough to turn mine off. From foul language and behavior, such as personal burping contests, not to mention people with kids screaming in the background, repeating the same thing over and over every 20 seconds. Plenty of reasons exist to not be communicative
RavenSkylord wrote: »Griefing would be a player going out of their way completely to ruin others experience of playing the game. If you leave an area and that player follows you, then you might have a valid argument for reporting for griefing. But as grinding in the manner you are referring is outside the intended mechanics of the game, then this argument in entirely moot. That devs have taken the time to nerf grind spots in the past should be a pretty clear indication that you are not following the games intent. With an overabundance of ways to play the game, standing in one area killing mobs is hardly needed. From questing to crafting to dungeons and even changing armor/weapon sets all give experience enough to level any character.
The grinders are more likely to fall under griefing, just by virtue of wanting an area to themself and trying to "communicate " this in area chat. It in itself is a self centered attitude within the game. That this and other similar threads exist shows the truth in this statement. Obviously the OP is trying to differentiate grinding from questing, which indicates it is purely other grinders that are the problem here.
In response to players not communicating in area chat, I myself turn this off as it is routinely annoying and off putting. And not solely because it might contain people claiming areas to grind. Just listening to the idiotic things people do on mic is enough to turn mine off. From foul language and behavior, such as personal burping contests, not to mention people with kids screaming in the background, repeating the same thing over and over every 20 seconds. Plenty of reasons exist to not be communicative
Yeah, zone chat is permanently off for me and only put area chat in my view when grinding to ensure I don't miss someone trying to communicate to me. Yes this is about grinders messing with other grinders and asking others in general to be more considerate.
I used to think that ZOS was anti-grind until the pattern emerged that they only nerf areas that negatively impact others or become highly public + exploitative. There are still so many other areas left untouched. These areas are such that they have little to no chance to interfere with questing. And they even boosted XP for ginding in Cyrodiil delves. So I don't think their stance is so B/W.
Cherryblossom wrote: »Grind quicker if thats what you want to do, it becomes a race then, but don't expect me to stop grinding just because you and friend have decided this is your patch!
to believe there is any Etiquette to grinding is foolish, mobs are mobs, they belong to no one and everyone has their defined play time.
If you are so worried about it, may be you should be; 1. more tolerant 2. move on and let them have their turn!
There is some code (aka: etiquette) amongst us players and most of those I grind with or had the pleasure of doing so have it as well. So it may benefit you more if you were to keep an open mind rather than calling others foolish. But maybe not.
This is about being considerate of other players and how your actions affect their experience. Since none of the mobs in this game are owned, ownership is irrelevant.
I find it fascinating how so many want an MMO experience, but are sooo quick to not GAF about anyone but themselves (not saying or implying this is you).
> Aside from the fact that ZOS creates significant anti-social situations such as reduced XP for a groups of more than 2 combined with a new vertical progression system and no new content.
> And regardless of whether or not you think grinding is acceptable
> In the event you are grinding mobs with another player and another one shows up and rapidly starts tagging your pulls (leeching XP) and also jumping in front of mobs and killing them when you pull them. Several attempts are made to communicate with this player to no avail and they are clearly not just ignorant to their actions but intentionally dismissing the impact to your quality of game-play.
Should you (poll options)?
Defined: Griefing is the act of chronically causing consternation to other members of an online community, or more specifically, intentionally disrupting the immersion of another player in their gameplay.
Ourorboros wrote: »I would be seriously surprised if reporting players you think are griefing, especially in this example, was taken seriously by ZOS. And just how long should someone who comes upon you grinding be expected to wait before it's 'their turn'?