PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · July 2015

I always thought they would mitigate how much damage you output if your are block casting, for example if you are blocking and still cast/use abilities that the abilities would just do like 15-25% less damage.

Stopping Stamina regeneration while blocking is just not smart and makes no sense...

Nifty2g · July 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you pass this thread to the appropriate team?

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you pass this thread to the appropriate team?

Things this change has made me think about.

1. Tanking isn't a problem in pvp whatsoever
2. Block casting isnt a problem in pvp whatsoever

both of those things have commonly run counters and are irrelevant compared to real problems such as 1 shotting. Many pvp players that I have been playing with think these changes are mostly irrelevant to pvp.

3. block casting isn't a problem in pve whatsoever
4. when tanking is changed, there are problems for everyone in pve

there is a clear disconnect between what players want and what the developers vision of the game is. this is happening over and over. there are unnecessary changes to things such as stamina regen while blocking when many more things, that players actual care about, are ignored. Why are things that players like to do, such as skip adds in trials or grind exp, destroyed time and time again when bugs run rampant?

5. this game is becoming less pve friendly

why is Imperial City pushing pvp on pve? What is so crucial about players going from pve into pvp? Having Imperial City be the new pve content that players have been waiting for since November is ripe for causing discontent with players because we pve for a reason.

6. "All content is able to be cleared even after the stamina regen change"

What is the point? This doesn't necessarily add more skill to the game. This restricts builds. This is really bad for people with a bad connection, ping, or limited computer and tanks are often the ones to have these issues. Tanks chose to tank, some times, because it doesn't require the super high frame rate that doing high dps does. What is the repercussions of this change on the stamina abilities that tanks run? Pierce armor and deep slash are serious abilities when it comes to pushing a groups potential and now tanks will be reluctant to use those great skills. So much for the 1 hand and 1 shield skill tree.

7. Tanks are shoehorned into their single roll because of champion points.

How is a pve tank supposed to play in pvp when they are gimped due to having to spread out their champion points for pve tanking & their ability to tank is greatly diminished due to the stamina regeneration change? A pve tank cannot be the same level as a pvp dps player due to the limiting effect of champion points and because of how focused dps is on stacking magic and stamina (not health, the tank resource that is most often stacked).

This is all anti-tank. This is all anti-pve. This is anti-average player. This isn't necessary. The game is better off without the stamina regen change. Thank you for reading @ZOS_GinaBruno .

Suru · July 2015

Natjur wrote: »

Templar spears will be come more important for FEEDING the tank stamina

THE ONLY HEALER VIABLE NOW!!!!!!

GrieverXVII · July 2015

idk about this topic...me and my bro have tsarted playing ESO around the same time, we both agreed he would go heavy/2h and i would go medium/bow. so far, I can't seem to stay alive or sustain myself in battles. on the other hand he has the ability to steamroll anything he comes across by either tanking, crowd control, or sheer power. it's not a good feeling and I honestly feel like the game won't truly let you play how you want to play, my bro clearly has a favored build. maybe these types of builds could use a bit of a debuff? or maybe certain things just need a buff...idk, what do i know.

Paradox · July 2015

Once again, punishing the majority for the faults of the very few.

Thanks, guys. This change really helps the game in every way, seeing as block wasn't an issue to anyone other than bad players.

Plaid13ub17_ESO · July 2015

Paradox wrote: »

Once again, punishing the majority for the faults of the very few.

Thanks, guys. This change really helps the game in every way, seeing as block wasn't an issue to anyone other than bad players.

yeah cant imagine what they are thinking. Sounds like every tank will need a very specific block cost reduction set up now to have any chance at all. And DK with the ability to use earthen heart skills to restore stam and the passive from using ultimates to restore it as well will have a huge advantage over other class tanks. Maybe a NB using caltrops to siphon stam back as they fight will work. But again thats forcing pvp for a viable pve build.

Why would they do this? Tanking is already the hardest role in trials by a long way. How is a tank supposed to tank multiple mobs now if they cant regen stam while being hit? What suck up the hits and hope a healer can keep up? This is an absurd change that no one asked for no one wants and no one understands. The only people that think this might be a good idea is the pvpers that want it to be easier to kill tanks that already do no damage.

They need to improve tanks in pvp not make them weaker!

Halfwitte · July 2015

I normally do not post on forums, because I don't feel like I can say what I would like to say in an articulate enough manner that it really drives home the point I am trying to make, but this type of change is enough for me to try and make my voice heard. This change would be catastrophic for tanks in PVE scenerios. I'm limiting my input to PVE scenerios since I refrain from PVP and I have little experience in that realm.

I couldn't imagine attempting to do the daily gold pledge for crypt of hearts leaving four wraiths alive since they're pretty fast attackers albeit not heavy hitters, but they wipe my stamina quickly enough to keep it interesting without having to worry about dropping my guard to regen stamina. Many have brought up tanking Axes in AA which I feel is a very valid point. If you're knocked down by axes its pretty much a death sentence on that fight. I can't fathom how I would try managing to eat 2 attacks from 2 axes that weren't heavy attacking to allow stamina to regen so I don't have to eat the heavy attack from the 3rd axe that's going knock me down and get me killed by the other 2 and timing the whole dance perfectly. Seems to me that they would have to rework the whole system since the mechanic of regenerating stamina while blocking is the foundation if not the keystone or at least a corner stone (for those how call it a LTP issue) of blocking and staying alive as a tank. STAMINA=LIFE=Successful Group

I thought parties brought along tanks because they carried shields and could take a beating with their shield up and stay up regardless of the amount of punishment they would receive. Otherwise we could do this GW2 style where no one is a tank and we bring all dps to the party and run around resurrecting each other from the downed state to complete the fights.

Tanks stack stamina regen and put points into cost reduction of blocking and reduction in stamina costs glyphs on jewelry to ensure we don't go down and our healers can keep up and we last long enough for our dps to take the target down. Often times you can get by with dps not being the greatest or if healing is sub par as long as the tank is solid as he/she was meant to be.

Why is this change even being considered? What is so broken in PVE that this is a real issue that it needs to be dealt with before everything else that's been plaguing this game for months? Did someone start a thread about it's too easy being a tank? How is this change going to make the game more fun and exciting to play? All I feel at the thought of this is just dread and disappointment and worry about how I'm going to have to change my play style just to stay an effective tank, forget about becoming a better tank.

Sorry for wall of text

Korozenn · July 2015

Okay, perma-blocking is definitely an issue that needed to be ironed out. I don't think halting Stamina Regen while blocking is a good compromise for Tanks, though.

Yes, we should still be able to regen Stamina while blocking. But it should be an effect that diminishes with the more damage your shield absorbs until a certain limit is reached and you just simply can't regen much of any Stamina any longer while blocking (therefore, you have to wait until the debuff there goes away after a few seconds). There can be an animation that goes along with this.

Perma-blocking should never be a thing. Because that is when Stamina builds do become a problem, and this is a way of balancing the playing field. As ZOS puts it, while it will put a damper on PvE for Tanks, it is something that does need to be implemented in some way or another for PvP.

I just don't agree with the way it is being implemented.

This will cause Tanks to get the shaft when it comes to finding people to run Trials with, and I really hope ZeniMax finds a way to meet us all mid-way at a compromise so Tanks are still viable and effective for end-game PvE.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

Okay, perma-blocking is definitely an issue that needed to be ironed out.

Perma-blocking should never be a thing.

Perma-blocking is a non issue. It is important in pve content. It is important for pve tanks who want to pvp.

It doesn't break any part of the game and it certainly isn't causing players to die unfairly in pvp. It makes fights more interesting, it has strong commonly run counters, and the perma blocker pays their price for perma blocking, such as with less damage output.

Blocking at the moment is something that is actually well balanced.

Emma_Overload · July 2015

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

I always thought they would mitigate how much damage you output if your are block casting, for example if you are blocking and still cast/use abilities that the abilities would just do like 15-25% less damage.

Stopping Stamina regeneration while blocking is just not smart and makes no sense...

I like your idea lot better than what the devs came up with... they should hire you!

Personofsecrets · July 2015

block casting naturally causes players to do less dps in a fight.

If someone is block casting, then they aren't able to weave attacks.

The Uninvited · July 2015

Halfwitte wrote: »

Why is this change even being considered? What is so broken in PVE that this is a real issue that it needs to be dealt with before everything else that's been plaguing this game for months? Did someone start a thread about it's too easy being a tank?

No, it's a "issue" in PvP that now will become an issue in PvE.

I saw somebody (DDuke I think) mentioning tank rotation as a solution in trials, here's another fine change that will make that impossible:

Taunt immunity will only apply to monsters which are effected by multiple players Taunts.

This means that two players can’t each take turns at Taunting the enemy but will allow a single tank to keep Taunting the enemy over and over. So if only one player is Taunting then the monster will not become Taunt immune.

Edit: By the way, I don't have a problem with this change to Taunt immunity.

The_Sadist · July 2015

I can see they really thought this through.

Ah PvP, why must you ruin everything?

Personofsecrets · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Edit: By the way, I don't have a problem with this change to Taunt immunity.

I do as it is another thing that wasn't necessary to change, but the bigger life issue right now is the stam regen.

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2015

@tpanisiakb16_ESO & @Personofsecrets you guys really summed up how I felt about this issue. I personally play pve and pvp, and I think both have a valid place in the game. My first thought when I heard about the change to stamina while blocking was 'I wonder if I need to just give up on the notion of playing a tank, and switch to some kind of high dps glass cannon'. This is not just for pve but for pvp as well. If holding a shield just means you're going to get killed .5 seconds after the glass second, but do absolutely no damage at all, why even bother? The tank is there to shake things up, and the solution to dealing with a tank is another tank, or crowd control. This is how it is supposed to be and I really can't understand why they would want to change this for pvp or pve. I realize this is a pve thread, but I'm boggled at why it would exist in any arena. I will grant, this is absolutely terrible for PVE, and I think a lot of people might leave the game over this if they dont' consider very carefully how they're implementing this nonsense. The Tank role is something a lot of players who enjoy that niche take seriously, if they take that away, I imagine a lot of people will be fairly upset. This vacuum can in turn cascade in pulling other players away. This type of thing is infectious, and I've seen it happen in other MMO's. I REALLY hope they do some serious PTS work and take feedback on this before it ever goes live.

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2015

hydrocynus wrote: »

Or an enchantment on weapons that affects regeneration like diseased affects healing abilities. These would be better ways so that the clever players can debuff their opponents instead of everyone benefitting

I've always thought this should be the job of the ice mage (like it was in Skyrim). I'm really not sure why they didn't try to bring this into ESO, it would have been a fun element to bring into the game.

Tankqull · July 2015

Jared_lindsey86_ESO wrote: »

Oh yay! Death challenges will be so fun now. tank these four daedroths, wraiths or whatever with no stamina! I love how this challenging new element of game play is being introduced so that a handful of PvP N00Bs can one shot players for 20000 DMG with a bow. YAY.

use caltrops in combination with evil hunter problem solved on any class, if you are a dk you have battle roar and helping hands and ash cloud for even more procs on top.

Nifty2g wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Please pass it on to Eric to keep this inside Cyrodill only please. Lets not ruin PvE End Game.

PvE "End Game" is already ruined by it being 6 months old, too easy (hopefully this change will help) and unrewarding.

If you really think this is going to be a problem in trials, there's a couple of options for you:
Find a better tank.

Start using a tank rotation.

Have a Templar throw spears at the tank.

1 - Some of the best tanks have been posting in here and have been agreeing this is a horrible decision. It's the decsion not the tank, I suggest try tanking Trials before saying such things please.

2 - No, silly.

3 - Shards have a cool-down like most synergies, this is a not a solution to the problem, it won't help.

using the shard synergy has a 8!!! sec CD refills 25% + ~4k over 10sec if you deplete more than 25% in 8 sec absolutly no stamina reg values will enable you to tank that encounter anyway.

The Uninvited · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

use caltrops in combination with evil hunter problem solved on any class, if you are a dk you have battle roar and mountain blessing and ash cloud for even more procs on top

Not every PvE player plays PvP and caltrops take a long time to get.

Plaid13ub17_ESO · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Jared_lindsey86_ESO wrote: »

Oh yay! Death challenges will be so fun now. tank these four daedroths, wraiths or whatever with no stamina! I love how this challenging new element of game play is being introduced so that a handful of PvP N00Bs can one shot players for 20000 DMG with a bow. YAY.

use caltrops in combination with evil hunter problem solved on any class, if you are a dk you have battle roar and helping hands and ash cloud for even more procs on top.

Nifty2g wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Please pass it on to Eric to keep this inside Cyrodill only please. Lets not ruin PvE End Game.

PvE "End Game" is already ruined by it being 6 months old, too easy (hopefully this change will help) and unrewarding.

If you really think this is going to be a problem in trials, there's a couple of options for you:
Find a better tank.

Start using a tank rotation.

Have a Templar throw spears at the tank.

1 - Some of the best tanks have been posting in here and have been agreeing this is a horrible decision. It's the decsion not the tank, I suggest try tanking Trials before saying such things please.

2 - No, silly.

3 - Shards have a cool-down like most synergies, this is a not a solution to the problem, it won't help.

using the shard synergy has a 8!!! sec CD refills 25% + ~4k over 10sec if you deplete more than 25% in 8 sec absolutly no stamina reg values will enable you to tank that encounter anyway.

Needing to use a PVP skill for pve is a horrible answer. Not to mention tanks dont have enough skill slots available as it is. It is a bad and pointless change that is only wanted by very few pvp players that cant deal with blocking.

Needing to count on a templar to feed you stam is also just absurd. No other role has to count on others to do their job. No reason why the tank should have to.

Tankqull · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

use caltrops in combination with evil hunter problem solved on any class, if you are a dk you have battle roar and mountain blessing and ash cloud for even more procs on top

Not every PvE player plays PvP and caltrops take a long time to get.

rofl? it took me two days of pvp to get caltrops awesome time investment - even if you are total crap in pvp it takes a max of a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day.
im forced to do unintresting pve for months to aquire undaunted sets and passiva and a week of pvp is to much for you? great...
keep on crying that "nerf" doesent bother any tank in pve in a good group

Suru wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

Templar spears will be come more important for FEEDING the tank stamina

THE ONLY HEALER VIABLE NOW!!!!!!

well i might sound like a heretic but any templar even a stamina dps templar can provide spears every 8-10sec... in combination with the class abilities to retain stamina on a non reg base every class but sorcs who are not used (at all) as tanks in endgame anyway can fullfill their roll.

WolfingHour · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

No I don't.

If new content is *** easy because of game mechanics, then we are back to square one: too easy content.

So every vet dungeon and trial was dead easy the first time you got there? Did you complete Sanctum on your first try?

Please be reasonable, @DDuke. The reason why you see the game as easy, as many of us do, is because we have been doing this exact same things for many months now, without any change in item/power levels. Settling the matter by saying "the players could use the challenge" or "they can even do it, we've tested it" is just a lazy and artificial way to extend the game experience. Honestly, setting that precedent (although one could argue that the drop mechanic of trial and monster gear is just that) terrifies me - that we are willing to accept game mechanic changes as surrogates for new content. On top of that, having a change implemented across the board when it is crystal clear that it is meant to address a specific issue in one specific part of the game honestly is short-sighted and a bitter pill to swallow by everyone else.

Can we now go back to discussing if this change is good or bad in and of itself?

The Uninvited · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

rofl? it took me two days of pvp to get caltrops awesome time investment - even if you are total crap in pvp it takes a max of a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day.
im forced to do unintresting pve for months to aquire undaunted sets and passiva and a week of pvp is to much for you? great...
keep on crying that "nerf" doesent bother any tank in pve in a good group

a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day

- you do realize that's a lot of investment for a lot of people don't you? You know, with other stuff in real life and all that. Not that many people have the luxury to play 2 hours or more each day.

and a week of pvp is to much for you?

- No. I do PvP and I never said that. I was speaking for a lot of friends that aren't interested in PvP, just like you don't care for PvE.

Tankqull · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

rofl? it took me two days of pvp to get caltrops awesome time investment - even if you are total crap in pvp it takes a max of a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day.
im forced to do unintresting pve for months to aquire undaunted sets and passiva and a week of pvp is to much for you? great...
keep on crying that "nerf" doesent bother any tank in pve in a good group

a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day

- you do realize that's a lot of investment for a lot of people don't you? You know, with other stuff in real life and all that. Not that many people have the luxury to play 2 hours or more each day.

and a week of pvp is to much for you?

- No. I do PvP and I never said that. I was speaking for a lot of friends that aren't interested in PvP, just like you don't care for PvE.

as a severe casual the only pve areas where you would need those abilities the time restrictions created by you would negate that pve type anyway so once again. there is no problem for you and your friends.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

rofl? it took me two days of pvp to get caltrops awesome time investment - even if you are total crap in pvp it takes a max of a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day.
im forced to do unintresting pve for months to aquire undaunted sets and passiva and a week of pvp is to much for you? great...
keep on crying that "nerf" doesent bother any tank in pve in a good group

a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day

- you do realize that's a lot of investment for a lot of people don't you? You know, with other stuff in real life and all that. Not that many people have the luxury to play 2 hours or more each day.

and a week of pvp is to much for you?

- No. I do PvP and I never said that. I was speaking for a lot of friends that aren't interested in PvP, just like you don't care for PvE.

So, let me get it straight. PVP whiners are forcing a change that will ruin tanking in PVE and now suggesting that in order to play normally without stamina regen..... you need a skill that is obtained by doing filthy PVP that ruined PVE in first place??

DDuke · July 2015

WolfingHour wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

No I don't.

If new content is *** easy because of game mechanics, then we are back to square one: too easy content.

So every vet dungeon and trial was dead easy the first time you got there? Did you complete Sanctum on your first try?

Please be reasonable, @DDuke. The reason why you see the game as easy, as many of us do, is because we have been doing this exact same things for many months now, without any change in item/power levels. Settling the matter by saying "the players could use the challenge" or "they can even do it, we've tested it" is just a lazy and artificial way to extend the game experience. Honestly, setting that precedent (although one could argue that the drop mechanic of trial and monster gear is just that) terrifies me - that we are willing to accept game mechanic changes as surrogates for new content. On top of that, having a change implemented across the board when it is crystal clear that it is meant to address a specific issue in one specific part of the game honestly is short-sighted and a bitter pill to swallow by everyone else.

Can we now go back to discussing if this change is good or bad in and of itself?

Look, I've been trying to tell that this is going to be a good thing.

Having to actually care about your resource management and not having infinite resources is actually just adding another layer of depth to the gameplay (and it doesn't only affect tanks, you have to block sometimes as DPS or healer as well).

I would at the very least propose that people test this out before making QQ threads like this. It could very well turn out that the game is twice as fun as it was with this change.

Tankqull · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

rofl? it took me two days of pvp to get caltrops awesome time investment - even if you are total crap in pvp it takes a max of a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day.
im forced to do unintresting pve for months to aquire undaunted sets and passiva and a week of pvp is to much for you? great...
keep on crying that "nerf" doesent bother any tank in pve in a good group

a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day

- you do realize that's a lot of investment for a lot of people don't you? You know, with other stuff in real life and all that. Not that many people have the luxury to play 2 hours or more each day.

and a week of pvp is to much for you?

- No. I do PvP and I never said that. I was speaking for a lot of friends that aren't interested in PvP, just like you don't care for PvE.

So, let me get it straight. PVP whiners are forcing a change that will ruin tanking in PVE and now suggesting that in order to play normally without stamina regen..... you need a skill that is obtained by doing filthy PVP that ruined PVE in first place??

no i´m saying thet you have to get out of your cozy comfort zone and rethink and use the options available to you and do not deny them like shards in this thread "i dont want to use that synergy!" <stomping his feets to the ground> - thats all.

The Uninvited · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

rofl? it took me two days of pvp to get caltrops awesome time investment - even if you are total crap in pvp it takes a max of a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day.
im forced to do unintresting pve for months to aquire undaunted sets and passiva and a week of pvp is to much for you? great...
keep on crying that "nerf" doesent bother any tank in pve in a good group

a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day

- you do realize that's a lot of investment for a lot of people don't you? You know, with other stuff in real life and all that. Not that many people have the luxury to play 2 hours or more each day.

and a week of pvp is to much for you?

- No. I do PvP and I never said that. I was speaking for a lot of friends that aren't interested in PvP, just like you don't care for PvE.

as a severe casual the only pve areas where you would need those abilities the time restrictions created by you would negate that pve type anyway so once again. there is no problem for you and your friends.

So you're now actually implying that players with less time on their hands shouldn't do vet dungeons or trials? Or better yet, spend their spare time (which they use for doing vet dungeons and trials) on a week of PvP (even cutting down the time they have for doing what they like) just to get a skill unlocked?

Tankqull · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

rofl? it took me two days of pvp to get caltrops awesome time investment - even if you are total crap in pvp it takes a max of a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day.
im forced to do unintresting pve for months to aquire undaunted sets and passiva and a week of pvp is to much for you? great...
keep on crying that "nerf" doesent bother any tank in pve in a good group

a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day

- you do realize that's a lot of investment for a lot of people don't you? You know, with other stuff in real life and all that. Not that many people have the luxury to play 2 hours or more each day.

and a week of pvp is to much for you?

- No. I do PvP and I never said that. I was speaking for a lot of friends that aren't interested in PvP, just like you don't care for PvE.

as a severe casual the only pve areas where you would need those abilities the time restrictions created by you would negate that pve type anyway so once again. there is no problem for you and your friends.

So you're now actually implying that players with less time on their hands shouldn't do vet dungeons or trials? Or better yet, spend their spare time (which they use for doing vet dungeons and trials) on a week of PvP (even cutting down the time they have for doing what they like) just to get a skill unlocked?

pretty much if you do not have the time to pvp for an hour or two, you do not have the time to pve for an hour or two and as most casual raids take that long, excluding one option by you - the other option is excluded by itself...

The Uninvited · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

rofl? it took me two days of pvp to get caltrops awesome time investment - even if you are total crap in pvp it takes a max of a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day.
im forced to do unintresting pve for months to aquire undaunted sets and passiva and a week of pvp is to much for you? great...
keep on crying that "nerf" doesent bother any tank in pve in a good group

a week of 1-2 hours of pvp each day

- you do realize that's a lot of investment for a lot of people don't you? You know, with other stuff in real life and all that. Not that many people have the luxury to play 2 hours or more each day.

and a week of pvp is to much for you?

- No. I do PvP and I never said that. I was speaking for a lot of friends that aren't interested in PvP, just like you don't care for PvE.

as a severe casual the only pve areas where you would need those abilities the time restrictions created by you would negate that pve type anyway so once again. there is no problem for you and your friends.

So you're now actually implying that players with less time on their hands shouldn't do vet dungeons or trials? Or better yet, spend their spare time (which they use for doing vet dungeons and trials) on a week of PvP (even cutting down the time they have for doing what they like) just to get a skill unlocked?

pretty much if you do not have the time to pvp for an hour or two, you do not have the time to pve for an hour or two and as most casual raids take that long, excluding one option by you - the other option is excluded by itself...

Still, it's not just an hour or two. It's an hour or two each day for a week. But we're going off topic here.