PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Ive read great suggestion that said this "0 stamina regeneration while blocking" could be part of some generic PVP buff active only when you enter cyriodiil.

Especially that with next major patch all PVP buffs are going to stay in PVP and wont affect PVE.

Im getting annoyed that devs change everything on every whim and cry of PVP absorbed players. They do it only because of complaints of minority of PVP absorbed players while ignoring the majority of PVE players.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

hydrocynus wrote: »

Or an enchantment on weapons that affects regeneration like diseased affects healing abilities. These would be better ways so that the clever players can debuff their opponents instead of everyone benefitting

i nominate you for a dev position.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Ive read great suggestion that said this "0 stamina regeneration while blocking" could be part of some generic PVP buff active only when you enter cyriodiil.

Especially that with next major patch all PVP buffs are going to stay in PVP and wont affect PVE.

Im getting annoyed that devs change everything on every whim and cry of PVP absorbed players. They do it only because of complaints of minority of PVP absorbed players while ignoring the majority of PVE players.

here is the thing. tanking isn't even a pvp issue. tanks deal no damage in pvp and the only other people block casting are light armor wearers. It should be obvious while light armor wearers have to block cast now.

I have a hard time believing that the degenerate one-shot and done builds are getting more benefits over players who actually want to have a real battle.

Leandor · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Ive read great suggestion that said this "0 stamina regeneration while blocking" could be part of some generic PVP buff active only when you enter cyriodiil.

Especially that with next major patch all PVP buffs are going to stay in PVP and wont affect PVE.

Im getting annoyed that devs change everything on every whim and cry of PVP absorbed players. They do it only because of complaints of minority of PVP absorbed players while ignoring the majority of PVE players.

Don't say this. This game was advertised with AvA having a large part in it and is still taken as that by many players. PvP concerns are not less valid than PvE concerns.

BTW, I made that suggestion and I am a 100% PvP oriented player.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Ive read great suggestion that said this "0 stamina regeneration while blocking" could be part of some generic PVP buff active only when you enter cyriodiil.

Especially that with next major patch all PVP buffs are going to stay in PVP and wont affect PVE.

Im getting annoyed that devs change everything on every whim and cry of PVP absorbed players. They do it only because of complaints of minority of PVP absorbed players while ignoring the majority of PVE players.

here is the thing. tanking isn't even a pvp issue. tanks deal no damage in pvp and the only other people block casting are light armor wearers. It should be obvious while light armor wearers have to block cast now.

I have a hard time believing that the degenerate one-shot and done builds are getting more benefits over players who actually want to have a real battle.

Completely wrong. Either you play one of these and intend to spew misinformation or you don't PvP. The permanently blocking DKs (GDB, Scales, Spiked Armor, Whip, Invasion and Banner on the bar, never change weapons) were a thing. Especially with Whip bypassing dodge, that is the most ridiculous build in all of Cyrodiil. Good thing this is now tackled.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

"BTW, I made that suggestion and I am a 100% PvP oriented player."

Im glad there are still players like you who remember that there is sill world exising around cyriodiil

WolfingHour · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

PvP concerns are not less valid than PvE concerns.

I wholeheartedly agree. With that and with the pvp-centric concern that block casting is something that needs to be revisited, but not like this. The fact that PvP and PvE players will be at each others throats (check some replies in this and other threads) should be enough of an argument to have separate mechanics for Cyro and everywhere else besides Cyro. It's just short-sighted and an overall poor mismanaging of your communities expectations.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Completely wrong. Either you play one of these and intend to spew misinformation or you don't PvP. The permanently blocking DKs (GDB, Scales, Spiked Armor, Whip, Invasion and Banner on the bar, never change weapons) were a thing. Especially with Whip bypassing dodge, that is the most ridiculous build in all of Cyrodiil. Good thing this is now tackled.

Yes I do play a DK tank from time to time in cyrodiil. If you can't beat us, then figure out a counter to the supposed DK menace rather than having the devs do it for you.

Leandor · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Completely wrong. Either you play one of these and intend to spew misinformation or you don't PvP. The permanently blocking DKs (GDB, Scales, Spiked Armor, Whip, Invasion and Banner on the bar, never change weapons) were a thing. Especially with Whip bypassing dodge, that is the most ridiculous build in all of Cyrodiil. Good thing this is now tackled.

Yes I do play a DK tank from time to time in cyrodiil. If you can't beat us, then figure out a counter to the supposed DK menace rather than having the devs do it for you.

Oh, I have the counter. Only thing is you guys complain about that almost as much as sorcs complain about the shield nerf.

This playstyle (permablock DK) needs to go. There is nothing skillful in it. You can only attack them from melee range cause wings and then you get whipped to death because there was no way to evade it. The second you use fear to break their fortress you get hate whispers. Well played.

I would have been fine with Whip change alone, but this is better.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

resource management is the most skill intensive part of the game and the change to block casting removes part of that, thus dumbing the game down. Also, think for a second about everyone who isn't a dk that will be affected by the change, such as your healers.

Take the following steps if you are having problems.

Get good wrote:

Fear
Yesusbeam
Stormatronarch
Soulassault
Mage Wriths
Magica Detonation
Daedric Curse
Unstable Flame
Fire Breath
Dots from Templar

and all Aoes exept steeltornado

A. Get good

B. Stop complaining about 'muh op dk tanks' from pvp in a thread about pve

C. Kill dk tanks like everyone else is right now

Elloa · July 2015

We will have to see this in action. It can be a mechanic that could be compensated by other behaviours, other builds, a different way to play the tank and a different way to play in group.
Maybe more absorb shield from healers. I don't know...

I think we need to experience this situation, and explore alternatives before to complain.
Maybe it will not suck as much as it sound.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Elloa wrote: »

We will have to see this in action. It can be a mechanic that could be compensated by other behaviour, other build a different way to play the tank and a different way to play in group.
Maybe more absorb shield from healers. I don't know...I think we need to experience this sutuation, and explore alternative before to complain.

It is possible that the issue is overstated right now. That being said, if we hadn't complained in the past about certain things, then we wouldn't have ever gotten changes that made those things better.

The rolled back stealth nerf to taunt timers and 30 to 70 cp changes are examples of this.

Leandor · July 2015

Good thing nirnhoned gets adjusted so that the things you list as counters actually work, isn't it? Btw, it's not balanced if you need 5+ reasonably good (meaning higher than average, not top end) players to kill one tank in the time, his friends need to run back from their nearest port location...

Elloa · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

We will have to see this in action. It can be a mechanic that could be compensated by other behaviour, other build a different way to play the tank and a different way to play in group.
Maybe more absorb shield from healers. I don't know...I think we need to experience this sutuation, and explore alternative before to complain.

It is possible that the issue is overstated right now. That being said, if we hadn't complained in the past about certain things, then we wouldn't have ever gotten changes that made those things better.

The rolled back stealth nerf to taunt timers and 30 to 70 cp changes are examples of this.

I agree that we need to speak up openly and loudly when there is a problem. But here in this case, it's a CONCERN, not a problem yet. I find a bit silly people leaving before trying.

WolfingHour · July 2015

Elloa wrote: »

We will have to see this in action. It can be a mechanic that could be compensated by other behaviours, other builds, a different way to play the tank and a different way to play in group.
Maybe more absorb shield from healers. I don't know...

I think we need to experience this situation, and explore alternatives before to complain.
Maybe it will not suck as much as it sound.

I see your point and agree, however the fact that one side of the ESO experience is changing because something needs to be fixed on the other side still leaves a sour taste in the mouth and a completely unnecessary one at that.

FooWasHere · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

"

Second of all Stop eviscerating well developed parts of the pve game for pvp game.

This, so much this. Keep PvP problems out of PvE.

I think that people who know me would describe me as the most patient and accommodating person with updates, changes and bugs. Some say I'm just a fanboy, but I've just had a total blast in this game since release.
But this set of updates is an utter disappointment. I feel completely drained. Are they completely out of touch?

And please Eric Wrobel, don't tell me what's fun in tanking and not. Because you have no idea.

LEGENDARYYY · July 2015

I main tank and I welcome this change. With this patch my DK magicka tank will be more OP than ever before. I've never permablocked and all content has been a faceroll. Now I get more HP on my nord too

Finally no more mouse2 to win.

The Uninvited · July 2015

- Battle Roar will scale resource returns based on your Max Health, Magicka and Stamina.

- The Mundus Stone which increases Health Regen is changing to increase Stamina Regen instead.

- Potions and Skills will still restore Stamina but your normal Stamina Regen will be nothing.

Still a bit worried about vDSA and Sanctum.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

- Battle Roar will scale resource returns based on your Max Health, Magicka and Stamina.

- The Mundus Stone which increases Health Regen is changing to increase Stamina Regen instead.

- Potions and Skills will still restore Stamina but your normal Stamina Regen will be nothing.

Still a bit worried about vDSA and Sanctum.

Dont worry, Legendarrry has totally done all of this without permablocking, so there are bound to be no problems.

hydrocynus · July 2015

I still cannot see any way that i will be able to hold aggro on the manti taking his melee one shots and move out of the poison spears at the same time?

In addition, this is the death of Drink as opposed to Food. As far as i know Tanks are the only roles in the game that effectively use Drink (since damage scales of Magicka/Stamina no DPS would dream of being without a food buff but i stand to be corrected) because of the massive cost to block ( i now see what they were trying to do there). After all their efforts to try and make drink a viable option, they are about to throw it in the toilet again.

Tanks will go back to using food like all other classes, and will focus completely on Cost reduction of Bash and Skills rather than regeneration.

I am not sure there is much forward thinking here but i guess we will have to wait and see. Like someone else said - challenge accepted.

I still feel it would be better to have players equip a weapon with a regen stunt mechanism so that players that research and know what they are doing will be able to nullify the effects of block casters, whereas those that dont (obviously the ones complaining at the moment) will continue to suffer in ignorance.

Leandor · July 2015

Drink is the preferred option in PvP. Since this is a PvE discussion - as I was made aware of by a poster - we should leave the food/drink comparison out of the picture.

HxC · July 2015

Great change now nobody will ask me why i play nightblade tank

More seriously, with casual group already struggling against rilis or nerien'eth on gold key run i don't think this can go live without tweaking it.

For end game content some change on group strategy will negate the issue. The group dps will drop a little but not a big concern.

Benny hill tank build incoming, templar tank/healer with 5 pieces of light cyroddiil FTW !

WolfingHour · July 2015

hydrocynus wrote: »

I still feel it would be better to have players equip a weapon with a regen stunt mechanism so that players that research and know what they are doing will be able to nullify the effects of block casters, whereas those that dont (obviously the ones complaining at the moment) will continue to suffer in ignorance.

i

Totally agree. The more sensible gameplay changes are more often than not the ones that provide players with more tools/alternatives rather than taking things away.

Skcarkden · July 2015

Reeko wrote: »

Or maybe now you will need more skill to tank in PvE? I say bring it!

Or a better ping? Too bad, I need an Oceanic server then

BuggeX · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Completely wrong. Either you play one of these and intend to spew misinformation or you don't PvP. The permanently blocking DKs (GDB, Scales, Spiked Armor, Whip, Invasion and Banner on the bar, never change weapons) were a thing. Especially with Whip bypassing dodge, that is the most ridiculous build in all of Cyrodiil. Good thing this is now tackled.

Yes I do play a DK tank from time to time in cyrodiil. If you can't beat us, then figure out a counter to the supposed DK menace rather than having the devs do it for you.

Oh, I have the counter. Only thing is you guys complain about that almost as much as sorcs complain about the shield nerf.

This playstyle (permablock DK) needs to go. There is nothing skillful in it. You can only attack them from melee range cause wings and then you get whipped to death because there was no way to evade it. The second you use fear to break their fortress you get hate whispers. Well played.

I would have been fine with Whip change alone, but this is better.

Sorc is able to have a whole Slot just with unblockable skills. use it or stfu
btw this skills are also unreflactable.

ahh well i will just copy wath i Wort in a other thread

They just should let it be like it is, there are allready Skills wich kill you even whil you block.

Fear
Yesusbeam
Stormatronarch
Soulassault
Mage Wriths
Magica Detonation
Daedric Curse
Unstable Flame
Fire Breath
Dots from Templar
all Dots

and all Aoes exept steeltornado

so dont *** around saying there is no Counter, this skills are also unreflactable

comon ZOS, this is *** and a hug nerf for Templars and DKs in Heavy....

Or recreat one CP for +x% dmg to a blocking Enemy...

or a other solution, make more Spells ignoring block, like crushing shock fe.

eliisra · July 2015

I would like to know this to. Curiosity is killing me.

Blocking was always the main mechanic or tool behind tanking in PvE. That's how you're staying alive, that's how you're mitigating most dmg. Since day 1, it was designed like that.

Remove block from the tank and he's just a dps with a bit more health and armor really. He's not so tanky any more.

So if this recovery penalty does includes PvE, they will undoubtedly change or boost other things that affects tanks survivability. That or change PvE encounters, removing the need to use excessive blocking idk. They will do one of these these things, be sure of it.

I'm personally hoping for a re-polish of tanking in ESO. This mandatory pressing down mouse key half the time to stay alive, is pretty boring.

Sithisvoid · July 2015

You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.

BuggeX · July 2015

Sithisvoid wrote: »

You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.

if you are tanking Trails you would know there isnt allways a timewindow to perform a heavy without being knocked back and waste even more Stamina to break free.....

Leandor · July 2015

Oh come on! They're not disabling block or reduce its mitigation, they are just removing stamina regeneration while holding down RMB. You can still block shitloads of damage if you have a reasonable stamina pool, especially since the other regeneration abilities are going to be buffed! Yes, that includes direct stamina gained by DK passives or stamina regained by using spear shard synergy.

You still have pots to regain stamina immediately if in a bad situation. This change is not doomsday for tanking!

@BuggeX please stay civil, I did write nothing to justify that kind of aggression. As said in reply to your original post, in its current state, nirnhoned prevents most of these from being effective. Aside from fear, siege weaponry was the only really effective option against this build, which is exactly why almost every DK left in Cyrodiil uses it.

Sithisvoid · July 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

Sithisvoid wrote: »

You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.

if you are tanking Trails you would know there isnt allways a timewindow to perform a heavy without being knocked back and waste even more Stamina to break free.....

What I'm saying is this nerf is ppl crying about pvp. If they are getting run out of magika and stamina in pvp might be best to QQ and go play something else, or remember that heavy attacks regen magika and stamina. I agree the nerf is unjustified because of this.

mateoz · July 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Man, PvP based changes that fundamentally alter PvE kill me.

I really hope they come up with some way to make tanking viable still...

Have you even seen a PvE change that affect PVP? No never! you cant screw PvE in favor of PvP all the times without thinking about it 5 min.

If you think this change work then take 4 V14 with average gear and playstyle and make them try a Vet CoA with no stam and bring popcorn.