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PVP Update, June 2015

  • Quantine
    Quantine
    ✭✭✭
    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Well, they exist. I have been following them around for two days in a row now. Theory < reality.
    NA or EU? I still believe in the power of the 12man group :) Should be possible to counter.
    EU. They managed to dismantle them in the end, but that zerg blew up groups big and small here and there.

    Actually, it was a mistake on their side in the end that spelled their doom. They got locked down in one of the first story oil rooms at chalman milegate with fire balistas front and back and our best small scale group blowing them to pieces. The counter to it is to lock them down and bomb them before they can recharge the proximities, but that is easier said than done with maneuvre and purge.
    Well... I guess mistakes always can get those groups if you use them to your advantage. Which faction are they?
    One of the factions that according to the forum never play anything but small scale PvP and never blob, of course. In this case, AD.

    Well, I am AD and the only group of really strong players I know of, who use proxy detonation, are really playing in small groups. And usually fight against enemies a few times their numbers. So, I don't think you can beat that group without outnumbering them ;-) Maybe if they crash or something... anyways, would be really hard to pull off. The other groups are bigger and yes, they do use detonation, but are for sure not that strong players, so are beatable if you can outsmart them. Their leaders are quite smart too though, at least for some of the groups ;-)

    which group you talking of? only ad group i know using detos is BS and that is definitly not meant here

    Hah, let me clarify :) Since I can't just assume which group we're talking about and although I highly doubt Leandor is talking about BS, I can't simply exclude that possibility, that's why I referred to it (I am very theoretically minded :D). Buut they are by far not the only AD group using proxy-bomb, I know in K O C we used it short after 1.6 went live, however dropped it for a some time because of how laggy TB was, but started using it again quite a while ago... Also I know other small and big groups have been using it, so I don't know why you think proxy-bomb isn't used.... it's really a no-brainer for mgk-dps builds given that you are not totally lagged-out.


    EU | AD | Banana Squad Inc | Arena | The Pariah | Keepers of Cyrodiil

    Arulash, DK, rank 33
    Eledwhen Elmwoods, NB, rank 30
    Lil Aru, OP Templar healer, rank 23
    Aru on Flames, DK, rank 17

    NA | EP | Banana Squad Inc
    Aru's Sis, DK
  • Leandor
    Leandor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.

    It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.
  • Tarnumx
    Tarnumx
    ✭✭✭
    01.07.2015 lies lies
    Banana Squad Inc

    CYKA BLYAT GAMING

    youtube.com/channel/UCK7WFB_iXIlWH5ekxnqhi9g
  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Leandor wrote: »
    Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.

    It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.

    No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.

    It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
    “Whatever.”
    -Unknown American
  • Leandor
    Leandor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Leandor wrote: »
    Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.

    It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.

    No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.

    It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
    I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Leandor wrote: »
    Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.

    It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.

    Its not so strange that this is effective, all heals are on the crown > everyone needs heals to stay alive > everyone stacks on the crown. Group vs group is pretty fun imo, even bigger groups can be wiped if everyone follows the directions of the leader.

    I agree that pvp would be more fun if there were more drawbacks to very large groups (other than insane lag). There's not so much you can do against 50 guys if you're in a group of 10 for example. But even if such a huge group didnt stack there's usually little you can do. Sure you can kill some slackers packing their siege in the back lines but you wont stop them from taking the keep. They will have a lot more outgoing damage and they can res faster than you can kill them. PVP is partly just a numbers game, like it or not.
    PC - EU (AD)
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
    Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
    Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
    Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer
  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Leandor wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.

    It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.

    No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.

    It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
    I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.

    I don't think so, even if you nerfed templar heals you'd just get high ulti builds and rely on healing springs and mitigation stacks. the urge to stack tighter would be even stronger because you'd rely on things like veil and solar prison for your group. I think all those changes would do would make large group mechanics even more effective against smaller groups and lead to even higher group concentration at each objective. Victory would come down to who can stack the most veils, solar prisons and banners on a flag and what sorc can wait till they are all down to negate them before their group melts.

    The ideas of giving small groups or individuals abilities that scale on disadvantage isn't an idea I support either and have heard often enough. If a group is to be punished for its size let the game mechanics do that, or the group itself do that.

    Anyway, kind of a pointless agenda for both of us since none of the things we are discussing are under consideration.
    “Whatever.”
    -Unknown American
  • Leandor
    Leandor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Leandor wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.

    It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.

    No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.

    It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
    I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.

    I don't think so, even if you nerfed templar heals you'd just get high ulti builds and rely on healing springs and mitigation stacks. the urge to stack tighter would be even stronger because you'd rely on things like veil and solar prison for your group. I think all those changes would do would make large group mechanics even more effective against smaller groups and lead to even higher group concentration at each objective. Victory would come down to who can stack the most veils, solar prisons and banners on a flag and what sorc can wait till they are all down to negate them before their group melts.

    The ideas of giving small groups or individuals abilities that scale on disadvantage isn't an idea I support either and have heard often enough. If a group is to be punished for its size let the game mechanics do that, or the group itself do that.

    Anyway, kind of a pointless agenda for both of us since none of the things we are discussing are under consideration.
    But it's a good sounding board for ideas to discuss them. Imagine all group heals are proximity based (those located nearest to the healer get the heal irrespective of current health) including resto heals. Even if you put down veils and novas and whatnot, shooting them with siege will damage all of them. The damage reduction will not prevent whittling down targets, only slow it down. Some survive if stacked up, but most won't because suddenly there is useless overhealing those that are full already.

    Spreading out in small groups around healers will make much more sense. But this spread out formation makes healers vulnerable to focused attacks. Problem is solved.

    Of course, this is just food for thought. It still may be the simplest solution with a noticeable impact on the current meta.
  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Leandor wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.

    It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.

    No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.

    It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
    I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.

    I don't think so, even if you nerfed templar heals you'd just get high ulti builds and rely on healing springs and mitigation stacks. the urge to stack tighter would be even stronger because you'd rely on things like veil and solar prison for your group. I think all those changes would do would make large group mechanics even more effective against smaller groups and lead to even higher group concentration at each objective. Victory would come down to who can stack the most veils, solar prisons and banners on a flag and what sorc can wait till they are all down to negate them before their group melts.

    The ideas of giving small groups or individuals abilities that scale on disadvantage isn't an idea I support either and have heard often enough. If a group is to be punished for its size let the game mechanics do that, or the group itself do that.

    Anyway, kind of a pointless agenda for both of us since none of the things we are discussing are under consideration.
    But it's a good sounding board for ideas to discuss them. Imagine all group heals are proximity based (those located nearest to the healer get the heal irrespective of current health) including resto heals. Even if you put down veils and novas and whatnot, shooting them with siege will damage all of them. The damage reduction will not prevent whittling down targets, only slow it down. Some survive if stacked up, but most won't because suddenly there is useless overhealing those that are full already.

    Spreading out in small groups around healers will make much more sense. But this spread out formation makes healers vulnerable to focused attacks. Problem is solved.

    Of course, this is just food for thought. It still may be the simplest solution with a noticeable impact on the current meta.

    See, I would think that any large group with a desire to win faced with the scenario above would find 2 or 3 more full 24 man groups, one dedicated to siege support and another dedicated to flanking enemy siege support. Rather than just running as 1 16 man group you'd need to scale your group up to deal with mandatory siege response.

    As for the healing stuff, I don't have a templar but I think that would be really annoying to have to run around chasing health bars with rapid up all the time. I think they'd prob prefer a WOW style healing to that, where they were forced to click on frames to target friendly players and the cast heals with back-end cooldowns. If I was a healer and that was implemented, either one, wow healing or chase the bar, I quit the game and uninstall it in a NY minute.
    “Whatever.”
    -Unknown American
  • Leandor
    Leandor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Leandor wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.

    It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.

    No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.

    It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
    I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.

    I don't think so, even if you nerfed templar heals you'd just get high ulti builds and rely on healing springs and mitigation stacks. the urge to stack tighter would be even stronger because you'd rely on things like veil and solar prison for your group. I think all those changes would do would make large group mechanics even more effective against smaller groups and lead to even higher group concentration at each objective. Victory would come down to who can stack the most veils, solar prisons and banners on a flag and what sorc can wait till they are all down to negate them before their group melts.

    The ideas of giving small groups or individuals abilities that scale on disadvantage isn't an idea I support either and have heard often enough. If a group is to be punished for its size let the game mechanics do that, or the group itself do that.

    Anyway, kind of a pointless agenda for both of us since none of the things we are discussing are under consideration.
    But it's a good sounding board for ideas to discuss them. Imagine all group heals are proximity based (those located nearest to the healer get the heal irrespective of current health) including resto heals. Even if you put down veils and novas and whatnot, shooting them with siege will damage all of them. The damage reduction will not prevent whittling down targets, only slow it down. Some survive if stacked up, but most won't because suddenly there is useless overhealing those that are full already.

    Spreading out in small groups around healers will make much more sense. But this spread out formation makes healers vulnerable to focused attacks. Problem is solved.

    Of course, this is just food for thought. It still may be the simplest solution with a noticeable impact on the current meta.

    See, I would think that any large group with a desire to win faced with the scenario above would find 2 or 3 more full 24 man groups, one dedicated to siege support and another dedicated to flanking enemy siege support. Rather than just running as 1 16 man group you'd need to scale your group up to deal with mandatory siege response.

    As for the healing stuff, I don't have a templar but I think that would be really annoying to have to run around chasing health bars with rapid up all the time. I think they'd prob prefer a WOW style healing to that, where they were forced to click on frames to target friendly players and the cast heals with back-end cooldowns. If I was a healer and that was implemented, either one, wow healing or chase the bar, I quit the game and uninstall it in a NY minute.
    It would have to come with split responsibility in healing, making DDs required to actually position themselves so that their healers would not have to chase them.

    But I can see your point very well. Increasing damage is also not the solution, though. That would invalidate small groups even more. So, what to do?
  • RustedValor
    RustedValor
    ✭✭✭
    The easiest way to stop stacking is magica detonation. The way to stop zergs from using it is to make it also kill the caster with no revive and the damage = 100% of the casters max health irresistable damage. Then you will have tanky suicide members who can survive the zerg just long enough to bomb people stacking and then have to ride back to the front lines. To give a chance to counter, no stealth or invis is allowed while active or on your bar.
    Edited by RustedValor on July 1, 2015 8:18PM
  • ZOS_BrianWheeler
    ZOS_BrianWheeler
    PvP & Combat Lead
    "Gate jumpers beware" may be delayed a bit. There will be an enemy kill-zone around Elder Scrolls while in their Temples that is active when the gates are closed. If the gates are open, this barrier goes down and scrolls can be picked up.

    This also means if defending players retake either keep which causes the gate to close, it will bring the kill barrier back up and can effectively stop a scroll grab at the temple if the scroll hasn't been picked up yet.

    We will revisit the gate jumping as that can still be an issue even with the barriers around scrolls.
    Edited by ZOS_BrianWheeler on July 1, 2015 8:25PM
    Wheeler
    ESO PVP Lead & Combat Lead
    Staff Post
  • WarlordWoody22
    Not sure gate jumping is a problem, why shouldn't a sneaky thief be able to bypass security and steal the coveted artifacts?

    You want realistic keep battles with army vs army action trebuchets and burning oil, but not the part where they send in the ninjas to ninja your poorly defended artifacts?

    Now by the time I joined on console, you couldn't do this but I sure as hell would have tried if you could, and would expect t others too as well.

    I would have thought more demanding game breaking issues to be filling up your time, but I guess enough people cried about not defending their scrolls properly and having them stolen to make it worth the time.

  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not sure gate jumping is a problem, why shouldn't a sneaky thief be able to bypass security and steal the coveted artifacts?

    You want realistic keep battles with army vs army action trebuchets and burning oil, but not the part where they send in the ninjas to ninja your poorly defended artifacts?

    Now by the time I joined on console, you couldn't do this but I sure as hell would have tried if you could, and would expect t others too as well.

    I would have thought more demanding game breaking issues to be filling up your time, but I guess enough people cried about not defending their scrolls properly and having them stolen to make it worth the time.

    It's a game mechanic. If you were playing 2 flag CTF and one of the rules was you must have your flag on the base to cap the enemy's flag, however, if you stood in the right place you didn't, and it would score regardless of what your flag's location was, that would be a bug. This isn't about sneaky thieves, or coveted artifacts, it's about a scoring mechanism in a scored game.
    “Whatever.”
    -Unknown American
  • AJ_1988
    AJ_1988
    ✭✭✭
    One thing I have seen is when one alliance is dominating due to overwhelming numbers is when they have all the Keeps and the scrolls they sit and spawn kill inside the gates. There is no skill in spawn killing at a starting area nor does it make a player good. It's the same in others games such as cod tho that's a whole different kettle of fish. What if once a scroll was captured the gates close? It's not a big issue for me just might be for others.
  • Morvul
    Morvul
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that pvp would be more fun if there were more drawbacks to very large groups (other than insane lag). There's not so much you can do against 50 guys if you're in a group of 10 for example. But even if such a huge group didnt stack there's usually little you can do. Sure you can kill some slackers packing their siege in the back lines but you wont stop them from taking the keep. They will have a lot more outgoing damage and they can res faster than you can kill them. PVP is partly just a numbers game, like it or not.

    if the 50 are spread out, your 10 can harass, anoy and delay them.
    if the 50 stack up, you 10 are pretty much out of options (unless the 50 are really, really incompetent)

    when the game was launched, the devs proudly told us that cyrodiil would be full of choke points where large groups would be forced to stack up and fear getting wiped.
    In current reality, those chokepoints are the savest places for large stack groups to be...
    Edited by Morvul on July 2, 2015 8:08AM
  • Attorneyatlawl
    Attorneyatlawl
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Morvul wrote: »
    I agree that pvp would be more fun if there were more drawbacks to very large groups (other than insane lag). There's not so much you can do against 50 guys if you're in a group of 10 for example. But even if such a huge group didnt stack there's usually little you can do. Sure you can kill some slackers packing their siege in the back lines but you wont stop them from taking the keep. They will have a lot more outgoing damage and they can res faster than you can kill them. PVP is partly just a numbers game, like it or not.

    if the 50 are spread out, your 10 can harass, anoy and delay them.
    if the 50 stack up, you 10 are pretty much out of options (unless the 50 are really, really incompetent)

    when the game was launched, the devs proudly told us that cyrodiil would be full of choke points where large groups would be forced to stack up and fear getting wiped.
    In current reality, those chokepoints are the savest places for large stack groups to be...

    That's when you run your group as an extend ;) and string them out with a continuous kite. =) Standing your ground at 5:1 odds usually isn't, as you mentioned, your best choice if you're hoping to win.
    Edited by Attorneyatlawl on July 2, 2015 12:03PM
    -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
    Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!

    -Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
    ________________
    -In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Tarnumx wrote: »
    01.07.2015 lies lies
    @Tarnumx What lies are those then? I can't see how anyone can be lying in a post about future intended changes.
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  • Raizin
    Raizin
    ✭✭✭✭


    gud pvp update :D....
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  • pjwb16_ESO
    pjwb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Quantine wrote: »
    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Well, they exist. I have been following them around for two days in a row now. Theory < reality.
    NA or EU? I still believe in the power of the 12man group :) Should be possible to counter.
    EU. They managed to dismantle them in the end, but that zerg blew up groups big and small here and there.

    Actually, it was a mistake on their side in the end that spelled their doom. They got locked down in one of the first story oil rooms at chalman milegate with fire balistas front and back and our best small scale group blowing them to pieces. The counter to it is to lock them down and bomb them before they can recharge the proximities, but that is easier said than done with maneuvre and purge.
    Well... I guess mistakes always can get those groups if you use them to your advantage. Which faction are they?
    One of the factions that according to the forum never play anything but small scale PvP and never blob, of course. In this case, AD.

    Well, I am AD and the only group of really strong players I know of, who use proxy detonation, are really playing in small groups. And usually fight against enemies a few times their numbers. So, I don't think you can beat that group without outnumbering them ;-) Maybe if they crash or something... anyways, would be really hard to pull off. The other groups are bigger and yes, they do use detonation, but are for sure not that strong players, so are beatable if you can outsmart them. Their leaders are quite smart too though, at least for some of the groups ;-)

    which group you talking of? only ad group i know using detos is BS and that is definitly not meant here

    Hah, let me clarify :) Since I can't just assume which group we're talking about and although I highly doubt Leandor is talking about BS, I can't simply exclude that possibility, that's why I referred to it (I am very theoretically minded :D). Buut they are by far not the only AD group using proxy-bomb, I know in K O C we used it short after 1.6 went live, however dropped it for a some time because of how laggy TB was, but started using it again quite a while ago... Also I know other small and big groups have been using it, so I don't know why you think proxy-bomb isn't used.... it's really a no-brainer for mgk-dps builds given that you are not totally lagged-out.


    everytime i saw swat goin i never saw a deto (just mutagen spammin on others...) , just sayin, didnt saw *** much recently, mainly because they seem not to p lay where i am mostly or sth, the other 2 groups i know have maybe 2 or 3 people using deto so not even comparable to BS imo
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  • Makkir
    Makkir
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Raizin wrote: »


    gud pvp update :D....



    It was. Because I am going to focus fire everyone I see on that mount...
  • lzGod
    lzGod
    Soul Shriven
    Hello ZOS -

    Some changes needs to happen with the Emperorship. I been ahead 50k+ AP being #1 for my Alliance and even Overall in the Leaderboards and yet I can't be Emperor because it was taken before I got to 1st. Now that it has been about 2 days that I've been first place really sucks because I can't take over Emperorship. There should be like a thing where whoever is emperor and is not in 1st place anymore has to be first place again before the 1 day period is up. If they become first again then the timer ends if they become second it starts over. It sucks that my alliance is the best in Tavia (Ebonheart) and the other alliances can barely even capture the 6 Keeps around the imperial city without themselves. It's either we have all the Keeps or the dominion has 3 and the covenant has 3.

    It will be great if this can happen or something can change about Emperorship. I mean the rule does state Emperor has to be #1 and for Emperorship doesn't keep on changing maybe you can do what I stated above - the one day.

    Thanks
  • lzGod
    lzGod
    Soul Shriven
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler please read my message above. I will appreciate it.

    Thanks ^^^^
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Morvul wrote: »
    I agree that pvp would be more fun if there were more drawbacks to very large groups (other than insane lag). There's not so much you can do against 50 guys if you're in a group of 10 for example. But even if such a huge group didnt stack there's usually little you can do. Sure you can kill some slackers packing their siege in the back lines but you wont stop them from taking the keep. They will have a lot more outgoing damage and they can res faster than you can kill them. PVP is partly just a numbers game, like it or not.

    if the 50 are spread out, your 10 can harass, anoy and delay them.
    if the 50 stack up, you 10 are pretty much out of options (unless the 50 are really, really incompetent)

    when the game was launched, the devs proudly told us that cyrodiil would be full of choke points where large groups would be forced to stack up and fear getting wiped.
    In current reality, those chokepoints are the savest places for large stack groups to be...

    The only way to wipe such a big group if to catch them off-guard, after they take a resource for example. We wiped 30+ blues yesterday with 12 guys, 10 prox detonations and 1 fire ballista worked very well.

    As for fighting a large group during siege, you can spread them out but you need to stop the siegers (max 20 guys) or else they will breach. That means there are 30 guys standing around the siegers to defend them. If you pick them off the back lines more guys will join the fight to kill you/scare you away and simply rez the guys who died.
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  • Quantine
    Quantine
    ✭✭✭
    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Quantine wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    Well, they exist. I have been following them around for two days in a row now. Theory < reality.
    NA or EU? I still believe in the power of the 12man group :) Should be possible to counter.
    EU. They managed to dismantle them in the end, but that zerg blew up groups big and small here and there.

    Actually, it was a mistake on their side in the end that spelled their doom. They got locked down in one of the first story oil rooms at chalman milegate with fire balistas front and back and our best small scale group blowing them to pieces. The counter to it is to lock them down and bomb them before they can recharge the proximities, but that is easier said than done with maneuvre and purge.
    Well... I guess mistakes always can get those groups if you use them to your advantage. Which faction are they?
    One of the factions that according to the forum never play anything but small scale PvP and never blob, of course. In this case, AD.

    Well, I am AD and the only group of really strong players I know of, who use proxy detonation, are really playing in small groups. And usually fight against enemies a few times their numbers. So, I don't think you can beat that group without outnumbering them ;-) Maybe if they crash or something... anyways, would be really hard to pull off. The other groups are bigger and yes, they do use detonation, but are for sure not that strong players, so are beatable if you can outsmart them. Their leaders are quite smart too though, at least for some of the groups ;-)

    which group you talking of? only ad group i know using detos is BS and that is definitly not meant here

    Hah, let me clarify :) Since I can't just assume which group we're talking about and although I highly doubt Leandor is talking about BS, I can't simply exclude that possibility, that's why I referred to it (I am very theoretically minded :D). Buut they are by far not the only AD group using proxy-bomb, I know in K O C we used it short after 1.6 went live, however dropped it for a some time because of how laggy TB was, but started using it again quite a while ago... Also I know other small and big groups have been using it, so I don't know why you think proxy-bomb isn't used.... it's really a no-brainer for mgk-dps builds given that you are not totally lagged-out.


    everytime i saw swat goin i never saw a deto (just mutagen spammin on others...) , just sayin, didnt saw *** much recently, mainly because they seem not to p lay where i am mostly or sth, the other 2 groups i know have maybe 2 or 3 people using deto so not even comparable to BS imo

    Well, I don't know what swat is doing, maybe dolmens :D but in k o c we have 8-10 ppl with detonation in a full group. And in another small group I run with (not BS), we have around 6 out of our 12 ppl using detonation. So, I know with certainty of at least two other AD groups who do it. That's why I am saying what I did. Small groups using that tactic are mostly filled with more skilled players who know what they're doing and will be more difficult to kill, unless you outnumber them by a lot. Bigger groups (20+) usually do have players that are more or less clueless, so those groups can be divided and outmaneuvered. Of course they will kill you if you just run into them, you have to catch them off guard :-)
    Edited by Quantine on July 3, 2015 12:04PM
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  • Firmament
    Firmament
    ✭✭
    When will it happen? Major update, like new expansion ?
    I did read many posts but could not find any info.
    Thanks!
    Edited by Firmament on July 5, 2015 10:09AM
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Firmament wrote: »
    When will it happen? Major update, like new expansion ?
    I did read many posts but could not find any info.
    Thanks!
    @Firmament These changes are planned for the next major update, which is the one with Imperial City. More details are expected in the week of July 13th.
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  • Firmament
    Firmament
    ✭✭
    @Enodoc thank you very much for the info:)
    Leeeets wait!
  • shihku7
    shihku7
    my biggest complaint with the PVP game is that there is way, way too much downtime when you die. You often have to walk huge distances for 1-5 minutes before getting into another battle which can be over quite quickly

    I've been playing a lot of Planetside 2 on PS4 and to me the perfect ESO PVP game would take all the good ideas of Planetside 2 and transfer them to ESO

    In PS2, after spawning, you can get to a fight within 30 seconds usually. This is because players can drive mobile spawn points near the enemy base (but not too near, there's a proximity restriction in place). The spawn points can be destroyed easily. I hear that ESO had something like this too, but got rid of it. I really hope it makes a comeback soon because the walking is really killing the fun of the game.

    There are large complexes to fight in, with many walls and buildings breaking line of sight. This makes the game more interesting because you're not just having huge armies of players all aware of where everyone else is.

    In PS2, you can also get a rough estimate of how many enemy players are in any area. This allows your own team to respond accordingly. For example, the game will tell you that 30-50 enemies are in an area, and only 10-20 allies are there. It doesn't give you an exact number, but gives you a general idea, which is very helpful. If there's only a small number of enemies somewhere, you dont' need to send 50-100 people over there to get them.

    In ESO it's all guesswork. It's "realistic" in one way, as you can get scouts to go out and count the enemy numbers. But it's not realistic to expect most gamers to really coordinate in such an advanced way. IMO the players should be given an idea of how many enemies are in any given area.
  • Leandor
    Leandor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    shihku7 wrote: »
    my biggest complaint with the PVP game is that there is way, way too much downtime when you die. You often have to walk huge distances for 1-5 minutes before getting into another battle which can be over quite quickly

    I've been playing a lot of Planetside 2 on PS4 and to me the perfect ESO PVP game would take all the good ideas of Planetside 2 and transfer them to ESO

    In PS2, after spawning, you can get to a fight within 30 seconds usually. This is because players can drive mobile spawn points near the enemy base (but not too near, there's a proximity restriction in place). The spawn points can be destroyed easily. I hear that ESO had something like this too, but got rid of it. I really hope it makes a comeback soon because the walking is really killing the fun of the game.

    There are large complexes to fight in, with many walls and buildings breaking line of sight. This makes the game more interesting because you're not just having huge armies of players all aware of where everyone else is.

    In PS2, you can also get a rough estimate of how many enemy players are in any area. This allows your own team to respond accordingly. For example, the game will tell you that 30-50 enemies are in an area, and only 10-20 allies are there. It doesn't give you an exact number, but gives you a general idea, which is very helpful. If there's only a small number of enemies somewhere, you dont' need to send 50-100 people over there to get them.

    In ESO it's all guesswork. It's "realistic" in one way, as you can get scouts to go out and count the enemy numbers. But it's not realistic to expect most gamers to really coordinate in such an advanced way. IMO the players should be given an idea of how many enemies are in any given area.
    Look at your map in Cyrodiil. Battles are shown with crossed swords and the size of this symbol indicates the number of combatants (three sizes, small, medium, large signifying skirmishes with a few players up to maybe 10, fights with up to 20 and battles large group vs. large group respectively).

    Also, learn the main routes of attack. After a while you will be able to pretty well guess where the next battle will happen, especially in combination with population indicators. Cyrodiil in a way is quite predictable.
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