PVP Update, June 2015
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Quantine✭✭✭pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
One of the factions that according to the forum never play anything but small scale PvP and never blob, of course. In this case, AD.
Well... I guess mistakes always can get those groups if you use them to your advantage. Which faction are they?
EU. They managed to dismantle them in the end, but that zerg blew up groups big and small here and there.
Actually, it was a mistake on their side in the end that spelled their doom. They got locked down in one of the first story oil rooms at chalman milegate with fire balistas front and back and our best small scale group blowing them to pieces. The counter to it is to lock them down and bomb them before they can recharge the proximities, but that is easier said than done with maneuvre and purge.
Well, I am AD and the only group of really strong players I know of, who use proxy detonation, are really playing in small groups. And usually fight against enemies a few times their numbers. So, I don't think you can beat that group without outnumbering them ;-) Maybe if they crash or something... anyways, would be really hard to pull off. The other groups are bigger and yes, they do use detonation, but are for sure not that strong players, so are beatable if you can outsmart them. Their leaders are quite smart too though, at least for some of the groups ;-)
which group you talking of? only ad group i know using detos is BS and that is definitly not meant here
Hah, let me clarify
Since I can't just assume which group we're talking about and although I highly doubt Leandor is talking about BS, I can't simply exclude that possibility, that's why I referred to it (I am very theoretically minded 
). Buut they are by far not the only AD group using proxy-bomb, I know in K O C we used it short after 1.6 went live, however dropped it for a some time because of how laggy TB was, but started using it again quite a while ago... Also I know other small and big groups have been using it, so I don't know why you think proxy-bomb isn't used.... it's really a no-brainer for mgk-dps builds given that you are not totally lagged-out.
EU | AD | Banana Squad Inc | Arena | The Pariah | Keepers of Cyrodiil
Arulash, DK, rank 33
Eledwhen Elmwoods, NB, rank 30
Lil Aru, OP Templar healer, rank 23
Aru on Flames, DK, rank 17
NA | EP | Banana Squad Inc
Aru's Sis, DK0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.
It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.0 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.
It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.
No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.
It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
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I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.
It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.
No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.
It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.
It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.
Its not so strange that this is effective, all heals are on the crown > everyone needs heals to stay alive > everyone stacks on the crown. Group vs group is pretty fun imo, even bigger groups can be wiped if everyone follows the directions of the leader.
I agree that pvp would be more fun if there were more drawbacks to very large groups (other than insane lag). There's not so much you can do against 50 guys if you're in a group of 10 for example. But even if such a huge group didnt stack there's usually little you can do. Sure you can kill some slackers packing their siege in the back lines but you wont stop them from taking the keep. They will have a lot more outgoing damage and they can res faster than you can kill them. PVP is partly just a numbers game, like it or not.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.
It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.
No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.
It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
I don't think so, even if you nerfed templar heals you'd just get high ulti builds and rely on healing springs and mitigation stacks. the urge to stack tighter would be even stronger because you'd rely on things like veil and solar prison for your group. I think all those changes would do would make large group mechanics even more effective against smaller groups and lead to even higher group concentration at each objective. Victory would come down to who can stack the most veils, solar prisons and banners on a flag and what sorc can wait till they are all down to negate them before their group melts.
The ideas of giving small groups or individuals abilities that scale on disadvantage isn't an idea I support either and have heard often enough. If a group is to be punished for its size let the game mechanics do that, or the group itself do that.
Anyway, kind of a pointless agenda for both of us since none of the things we are discussing are under consideration.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
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But it's a good sounding board for ideas to discuss them. Imagine all group heals are proximity based (those located nearest to the healer get the heal irrespective of current health) including resto heals. Even if you put down veils and novas and whatnot, shooting them with siege will damage all of them. The damage reduction will not prevent whittling down targets, only slow it down. Some survive if stacked up, but most won't because suddenly there is useless overhealing those that are full already.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »
I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.
It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.
No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.
It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
I don't think so, even if you nerfed templar heals you'd just get high ulti builds and rely on healing springs and mitigation stacks. the urge to stack tighter would be even stronger because you'd rely on things like veil and solar prison for your group. I think all those changes would do would make large group mechanics even more effective against smaller groups and lead to even higher group concentration at each objective. Victory would come down to who can stack the most veils, solar prisons and banners on a flag and what sorc can wait till they are all down to negate them before their group melts.
The ideas of giving small groups or individuals abilities that scale on disadvantage isn't an idea I support either and have heard often enough. If a group is to be punished for its size let the game mechanics do that, or the group itself do that.
Anyway, kind of a pointless agenda for both of us since none of the things we are discussing are under consideration.
Spreading out in small groups around healers will make much more sense. But this spread out formation makes healers vulnerable to focused attacks. Problem is solved.
Of course, this is just food for thought. It still may be the simplest solution with a noticeable impact on the current meta.0 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭
But it's a good sounding board for ideas to discuss them. Imagine all group heals are proximity based (those located nearest to the healer get the heal irrespective of current health) including resto heals. Even if you put down veils and novas and whatnot, shooting them with siege will damage all of them. The damage reduction will not prevent whittling down targets, only slow it down. Some survive if stacked up, but most won't because suddenly there is useless overhealing those that are full already.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »
I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.
It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.
No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.
It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
I don't think so, even if you nerfed templar heals you'd just get high ulti builds and rely on healing springs and mitigation stacks. the urge to stack tighter would be even stronger because you'd rely on things like veil and solar prison for your group. I think all those changes would do would make large group mechanics even more effective against smaller groups and lead to even higher group concentration at each objective. Victory would come down to who can stack the most veils, solar prisons and banners on a flag and what sorc can wait till they are all down to negate them before their group melts.
The ideas of giving small groups or individuals abilities that scale on disadvantage isn't an idea I support either and have heard often enough. If a group is to be punished for its size let the game mechanics do that, or the group itself do that.
Anyway, kind of a pointless agenda for both of us since none of the things we are discussing are under consideration.
Spreading out in small groups around healers will make much more sense. But this spread out formation makes healers vulnerable to focused attacks. Problem is solved.
Of course, this is just food for thought. It still may be the simplest solution with a noticeable impact on the current meta.
See, I would think that any large group with a desire to win faced with the scenario above would find 2 or 3 more full 24 man groups, one dedicated to siege support and another dedicated to flanking enemy siege support. Rather than just running as 1 16 man group you'd need to scale your group up to deal with mandatory siege response.
As for the healing stuff, I don't have a templar but I think that would be really annoying to have to run around chasing health bars with rapid up all the time. I think they'd prob prefer a WOW style healing to that, where they were forced to click on frames to target friendly players and the cast heals with back-end cooldowns. If I was a healer and that was implemented, either one, wow healing or chase the bar, I quit the game and uninstall it in a NY minute.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It would have to come with split responsibility in healing, making DDs required to actually position themselves so that their healers would not have to chase them.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »
But it's a good sounding board for ideas to discuss them. Imagine all group heals are proximity based (those located nearest to the healer get the heal irrespective of current health) including resto heals. Even if you put down veils and novas and whatnot, shooting them with siege will damage all of them. The damage reduction will not prevent whittling down targets, only slow it down. Some survive if stacked up, but most won't because suddenly there is useless overhealing those that are full already.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »
I have heard those arguments often enough. I am still convinced that removing the Smart Healing from all spells that hit more than one single target will go 95% of the way to break up blobs. The remaining 5% will come from doubling the cost of barrier and all purge morphs.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Guys, stop pretending (if you are part of) or believing (if not) in players/groups saying they don't blob. All of them do. They guest on different campaigns for it, maybe, but they do it all.
It doesn't matter at all if it is done with 40 players or with 15 players. Standing on the crown, spamming heal/purge/tornado/impulse/proximity or whatever other FOTM ability is the death of this game and will only stop once ZOS fixes healing.
No collision, no friendly player interdiction of outgoing friendly damage when los is blocked to hostile target by friendly player. Venn diagrams just become the most efficient method of play because that is how the MECHANICS of the game are set up. We don't need to have a discussion about server epistemology to understand why it is that way and why other things can or can't happen to fix it, that is just the way it is, and likely that is the way it will continue to be until there isn't enough player liquidity to field groups of that size during prime-time.
It will continue to be that way because ZoS would have to do a number of things to change it. Things that would cost them both material purchases and hours of labor, leading to changes that may or may not work which might scare off more people from the game, and some will not like the changes which will scare off even more from the game. All of the above scares the marketing guy who is likely now in charge of every major decision and every sinch-re-skin and works under a mandate of "Do not let another penny bleed out, even if we can only make the smallest incremental gains on our balance sheet, that is preferable to risk, the existence of your job depends on that".
I don't think so, even if you nerfed templar heals you'd just get high ulti builds and rely on healing springs and mitigation stacks. the urge to stack tighter would be even stronger because you'd rely on things like veil and solar prison for your group. I think all those changes would do would make large group mechanics even more effective against smaller groups and lead to even higher group concentration at each objective. Victory would come down to who can stack the most veils, solar prisons and banners on a flag and what sorc can wait till they are all down to negate them before their group melts.
The ideas of giving small groups or individuals abilities that scale on disadvantage isn't an idea I support either and have heard often enough. If a group is to be punished for its size let the game mechanics do that, or the group itself do that.
Anyway, kind of a pointless agenda for both of us since none of the things we are discussing are under consideration.
Spreading out in small groups around healers will make much more sense. But this spread out formation makes healers vulnerable to focused attacks. Problem is solved.
Of course, this is just food for thought. It still may be the simplest solution with a noticeable impact on the current meta.
See, I would think that any large group with a desire to win faced with the scenario above would find 2 or 3 more full 24 man groups, one dedicated to siege support and another dedicated to flanking enemy siege support. Rather than just running as 1 16 man group you'd need to scale your group up to deal with mandatory siege response.
As for the healing stuff, I don't have a templar but I think that would be really annoying to have to run around chasing health bars with rapid up all the time. I think they'd prob prefer a WOW style healing to that, where they were forced to click on frames to target friendly players and the cast heals with back-end cooldowns. If I was a healer and that was implemented, either one, wow healing or chase the bar, I quit the game and uninstall it in a NY minute.
But I can see your point very well. Increasing damage is also not the solution, though. That would invalidate small groups even more. So, what to do?0 -
RustedValor✭✭✭The easiest way to stop stacking is magica detonation. The way to stop zergs from using it is to make it also kill the caster with no revive and the damage = 100% of the casters max health irresistable damage. Then you will have tanky suicide members who can survive the zerg just long enough to bomb people stacking and then have to ride back to the front lines. To give a chance to counter, no stealth or invis is allowed while active or on your bar.Edited by RustedValor on July 1, 2015 8:18PM0 -
ZOS_BrianWheelerPvP & Combat Lead"Gate jumpers beware" may be delayed a bit. There will be an enemy kill-zone around Elder Scrolls while in their Temples that is active when the gates are closed. If the gates are open, this barrier goes down and scrolls can be picked up.
This also means if defending players retake either keep which causes the gate to close, it will bring the kill barrier back up and can effectively stop a scroll grab at the temple if the scroll hasn't been picked up yet.
We will revisit the gate jumping as that can still be an issue even with the barriers around scrolls.Edited by ZOS_BrianWheeler on July 1, 2015 8:25PMWheeler
ESO PVP Lead & Combat Lead3 -
Not sure gate jumping is a problem, why shouldn't a sneaky thief be able to bypass security and steal the coveted artifacts?
You want realistic keep battles with army vs army action trebuchets and burning oil, but not the part where they send in the ninjas to ninja your poorly defended artifacts?
Now by the time I joined on console, you couldn't do this but I sure as hell would have tried if you could, and would expect t others too as well.
I would have thought more demanding game breaking issues to be filling up your time, but I guess enough people cried about not defending their scrolls properly and having them stolen to make it worth the time.
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AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭WarlordWoody22 wrote: »Not sure gate jumping is a problem, why shouldn't a sneaky thief be able to bypass security and steal the coveted artifacts?
You want realistic keep battles with army vs army action trebuchets and burning oil, but not the part where they send in the ninjas to ninja your poorly defended artifacts?
Now by the time I joined on console, you couldn't do this but I sure as hell would have tried if you could, and would expect t others too as well.
I would have thought more demanding game breaking issues to be filling up your time, but I guess enough people cried about not defending their scrolls properly and having them stolen to make it worth the time.
It's a game mechanic. If you were playing 2 flag CTF and one of the rules was you must have your flag on the base to cap the enemy's flag, however, if you stood in the right place you didn't, and it would score regardless of what your flag's location was, that would be a bug. This isn't about sneaky thieves, or coveted artifacts, it's about a scoring mechanism in a scored game.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
AJ_1988✭✭✭One thing I have seen is when one alliance is dominating due to overwhelming numbers is when they have all the Keeps and the scrolls they sit and spawn kill inside the gates. There is no skill in spawn killing at a starting area nor does it make a player good. It's the same in others games such as cod tho that's a whole different kettle of fish. What if once a scroll was captured the gates close? It's not a big issue for me just might be for others.1
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Morvul✭✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »I agree that pvp would be more fun if there were more drawbacks to very large groups (other than insane lag). There's not so much you can do against 50 guys if you're in a group of 10 for example. But even if such a huge group didnt stack there's usually little you can do. Sure you can kill some slackers packing their siege in the back lines but you wont stop them from taking the keep. They will have a lot more outgoing damage and they can res faster than you can kill them. PVP is partly just a numbers game, like it or not.
if the 50 are spread out, your 10 can harass, anoy and delay them.
if the 50 stack up, you 10 are pretty much out of options (unless the 50 are really, really incompetent)
when the game was launched, the devs proudly told us that cyrodiil would be full of choke points where large groups would be forced to stack up and fear getting wiped.
In current reality, those chokepoints are the savest places for large stack groups to be...Edited by Morvul on July 2, 2015 8:08AM1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »I agree that pvp would be more fun if there were more drawbacks to very large groups (other than insane lag). There's not so much you can do against 50 guys if you're in a group of 10 for example. But even if such a huge group didnt stack there's usually little you can do. Sure you can kill some slackers packing their siege in the back lines but you wont stop them from taking the keep. They will have a lot more outgoing damage and they can res faster than you can kill them. PVP is partly just a numbers game, like it or not.
if the 50 are spread out, your 10 can harass, anoy and delay them.
if the 50 stack up, you 10 are pretty much out of options (unless the 50 are really, really incompetent)
when the game was launched, the devs proudly told us that cyrodiil would be full of choke points where large groups would be forced to stack up and fear getting wiped.
In current reality, those chokepoints are the savest places for large stack groups to be...
That's when you run your group as an extend
and string them out with a continuous kite. 
Standing your ground at 5:1 odds usually isn't, as you mentioned, your best choice if you're hoping to win. Edited by Attorneyatlawl on July 2, 2015 12:03PM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
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@Tarnumx What lies are those then? I can't see how anyone can be lying in a post about future intended changes.01.07.2015 lies liesUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp1 -
Raizin✭✭✭✭
gud pvp update.... HellSeesYou = v16/AD/Rank 37-Former emp/EU TB-AZura(Old Auriels Bow badass) ___ Vampire Templar/Resto/Destro staff user from Banana squad
HellSeesAll - v16/EP/Rank 19 Magicka NB/Necrotic Lag member
HellSeesUs - v16/AD/Rank 18 Stamina Templar4 -
pjwb16_ESO✭✭✭✭pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
One of the factions that according to the forum never play anything but small scale PvP and never blob, of course. In this case, AD.
Well... I guess mistakes always can get those groups if you use them to your advantage. Which faction are they?
EU. They managed to dismantle them in the end, but that zerg blew up groups big and small here and there.
Actually, it was a mistake on their side in the end that spelled their doom. They got locked down in one of the first story oil rooms at chalman milegate with fire balistas front and back and our best small scale group blowing them to pieces. The counter to it is to lock them down and bomb them before they can recharge the proximities, but that is easier said than done with maneuvre and purge.
Well, I am AD and the only group of really strong players I know of, who use proxy detonation, are really playing in small groups. And usually fight against enemies a few times their numbers. So, I don't think you can beat that group without outnumbering them ;-) Maybe if they crash or something... anyways, would be really hard to pull off. The other groups are bigger and yes, they do use detonation, but are for sure not that strong players, so are beatable if you can outsmart them. Their leaders are quite smart too though, at least for some of the groups ;-)
which group you talking of? only ad group i know using detos is BS and that is definitly not meant here
Hah, let me clarify Since I can't just assume which group we're talking about and although I highly doubt Leandor is talking about BS, I can't simply exclude that possibility, that's why I referred to it (I am very theoretically minded ). Buut they are by far not the only AD group using proxy-bomb, I know in K O C we used it short after 1.6 went live, however dropped it for a some time because of how laggy TB was, but started using it again quite a while ago... Also I know other small and big groups have been using it, so I don't know why you think proxy-bomb isn't used.... it's really a no-brainer for mgk-dps builds given that you are not totally lagged-out.
everytime i saw swat goin i never saw a deto (just mutagen spammin on others...) , just sayin, didnt saw *** much recently, mainly because they seem not to p lay where i am mostly or sth, the other 2 groups i know have maybe 2 or 3 people using deto so not even comparable to BS imo~ here since Beta
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Some changes needs to happen with the Emperorship. I been ahead 50k+ AP being #1 for my Alliance and even Overall in the Leaderboards and yet I can't be Emperor because it was taken before I got to 1st. Now that it has been about 2 days that I've been first place really sucks because I can't take over Emperorship. There should be like a thing where whoever is emperor and is not in 1st place anymore has to be first place again before the 1 day period is up. If they become first again then the timer ends if they become second it starts over. It sucks that my alliance is the best in Tavia (Ebonheart) and the other alliances can barely even capture the 6 Keeps around the imperial city without themselves. It's either we have all the Keeps or the dominion has 3 and the covenant has 3.
It will be great if this can happen or something can change about Emperorship. I mean the rule does state Emperor has to be #1 and for Emperorship doesn't keep on changing maybe you can do what I stated above - the one day.
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Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »I agree that pvp would be more fun if there were more drawbacks to very large groups (other than insane lag). There's not so much you can do against 50 guys if you're in a group of 10 for example. But even if such a huge group didnt stack there's usually little you can do. Sure you can kill some slackers packing their siege in the back lines but you wont stop them from taking the keep. They will have a lot more outgoing damage and they can res faster than you can kill them. PVP is partly just a numbers game, like it or not.
if the 50 are spread out, your 10 can harass, anoy and delay them.
if the 50 stack up, you 10 are pretty much out of options (unless the 50 are really, really incompetent)
when the game was launched, the devs proudly told us that cyrodiil would be full of choke points where large groups would be forced to stack up and fear getting wiped.
In current reality, those chokepoints are the savest places for large stack groups to be...
The only way to wipe such a big group if to catch them off-guard, after they take a resource for example. We wiped 30+ blues yesterday with 12 guys, 10 prox detonations and 1 fire ballista worked very well.
As for fighting a large group during siege, you can spread them out but you need to stop the siegers (max 20 guys) or else they will breach. That means there are 30 guys standing around the siegers to defend them. If you pick them off the back lines more guys will join the fight to kill you/scare you away and simply rez the guys who died.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
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Quantine✭✭✭pjwb16_ESO wrote: »pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
One of the factions that according to the forum never play anything but small scale PvP and never blob, of course. In this case, AD.
Well... I guess mistakes always can get those groups if you use them to your advantage. Which faction are they?
EU. They managed to dismantle them in the end, but that zerg blew up groups big and small here and there.
Actually, it was a mistake on their side in the end that spelled their doom. They got locked down in one of the first story oil rooms at chalman milegate with fire balistas front and back and our best small scale group blowing them to pieces. The counter to it is to lock them down and bomb them before they can recharge the proximities, but that is easier said than done with maneuvre and purge.
Well, I am AD and the only group of really strong players I know of, who use proxy detonation, are really playing in small groups. And usually fight against enemies a few times their numbers. So, I don't think you can beat that group without outnumbering them ;-) Maybe if they crash or something... anyways, would be really hard to pull off. The other groups are bigger and yes, they do use detonation, but are for sure not that strong players, so are beatable if you can outsmart them. Their leaders are quite smart too though, at least for some of the groups ;-)
which group you talking of? only ad group i know using detos is BS and that is definitly not meant here
Hah, let me clarify Since I can't just assume which group we're talking about and although I highly doubt Leandor is talking about BS, I can't simply exclude that possibility, that's why I referred to it (I am very theoretically minded ). Buut they are by far not the only AD group using proxy-bomb, I know in K O C we used it short after 1.6 went live, however dropped it for a some time because of how laggy TB was, but started using it again quite a while ago... Also I know other small and big groups have been using it, so I don't know why you think proxy-bomb isn't used.... it's really a no-brainer for mgk-dps builds given that you are not totally lagged-out.
everytime i saw swat goin i never saw a deto (just mutagen spammin on others...) , just sayin, didnt saw *** much recently, mainly because they seem not to p lay where i am mostly or sth, the other 2 groups i know have maybe 2 or 3 people using deto so not even comparable to BS imo
Well, I don't know what swat is doing, maybe dolmens but in k o c we have 8-10 ppl with detonation in a full group. And in another small group I run with (not BS), we have around 6 out of our 12 ppl using detonation. So, I know with certainty of at least two other AD groups who do it. That's why I am saying what I did. Small groups using that tactic are mostly filled with more skilled players who know what they're doing and will be more difficult to kill, unless you outnumber them by a lot. Bigger groups (20+) usually do have players that are more or less clueless, so those groups can be divided and outmaneuvered. Of course they will kill you if you just run into them, you have to catch them off guard :-) Edited by Quantine on July 3, 2015 12:04PMEU | AD | Banana Squad Inc | Arena | The Pariah | Keepers of Cyrodiil
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Firmament✭✭When will it happen? Major update, like new expansion ?
I did read many posts but could not find any info.
Thanks!Edited by Firmament on July 5, 2015 10:09AM0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
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@Firmament These changes are planned for the next major update, which is the one with Imperial City. More details are expected in the week of July 13th.When will it happen? Major update, like new expansion ?
I did read many posts but could not find any info.
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shihku7✭my biggest complaint with the PVP game is that there is way, way too much downtime when you die. You often have to walk huge distances for 1-5 minutes before getting into another battle which can be over quite quickly
I've been playing a lot of Planetside 2 on PS4 and to me the perfect ESO PVP game would take all the good ideas of Planetside 2 and transfer them to ESO
In PS2, after spawning, you can get to a fight within 30 seconds usually. This is because players can drive mobile spawn points near the enemy base (but not too near, there's a proximity restriction in place). The spawn points can be destroyed easily. I hear that ESO had something like this too, but got rid of it. I really hope it makes a comeback soon because the walking is really killing the fun of the game.
There are large complexes to fight in, with many walls and buildings breaking line of sight. This makes the game more interesting because you're not just having huge armies of players all aware of where everyone else is.
In PS2, you can also get a rough estimate of how many enemy players are in any area. This allows your own team to respond accordingly. For example, the game will tell you that 30-50 enemies are in an area, and only 10-20 allies are there. It doesn't give you an exact number, but gives you a general idea, which is very helpful. If there's only a small number of enemies somewhere, you dont' need to send 50-100 people over there to get them.
In ESO it's all guesswork. It's "realistic" in one way, as you can get scouts to go out and count the enemy numbers. But it's not realistic to expect most gamers to really coordinate in such an advanced way. IMO the players should be given an idea of how many enemies are in any given area.0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
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Look at your map in Cyrodiil. Battles are shown with crossed swords and the size of this symbol indicates the number of combatants (three sizes, small, medium, large signifying skirmishes with a few players up to maybe 10, fights with up to 20 and battles large group vs. large group respectively).my biggest complaint with the PVP game is that there is way, way too much downtime when you die. You often have to walk huge distances for 1-5 minutes before getting into another battle which can be over quite quickly
I've been playing a lot of Planetside 2 on PS4 and to me the perfect ESO PVP game would take all the good ideas of Planetside 2 and transfer them to ESO
In PS2, after spawning, you can get to a fight within 30 seconds usually. This is because players can drive mobile spawn points near the enemy base (but not too near, there's a proximity restriction in place). The spawn points can be destroyed easily. I hear that ESO had something like this too, but got rid of it. I really hope it makes a comeback soon because the walking is really killing the fun of the game.
There are large complexes to fight in, with many walls and buildings breaking line of sight. This makes the game more interesting because you're not just having huge armies of players all aware of where everyone else is.
In PS2, you can also get a rough estimate of how many enemy players are in any area. This allows your own team to respond accordingly. For example, the game will tell you that 30-50 enemies are in an area, and only 10-20 allies are there. It doesn't give you an exact number, but gives you a general idea, which is very helpful. If there's only a small number of enemies somewhere, you dont' need to send 50-100 people over there to get them.
In ESO it's all guesswork. It's "realistic" in one way, as you can get scouts to go out and count the enemy numbers. But it's not realistic to expect most gamers to really coordinate in such an advanced way. IMO the players should be given an idea of how many enemies are in any given area.
Also, learn the main routes of attack. After a while you will be able to pretty well guess where the next battle will happen, especially in combination with population indicators. Cyrodiil in a way is quite predictable.1
