De-Mystical Mounts - A Crown Store Concept

Mettaricana · June 2015

im amazed how much people want this game to be bland and boring, first you take away boob windows, now any form of abnormal mount, next any hair color aside from brown black and blonde?...

its like reality check its an mmo not subway can't have everything your way remember arvik? he exists the nightmare horse doesn't seem to fall outside that category.

honestly as long as we dont add angelwings, batwings, or dragon mounts i'd say just enjoy what we have.

The_Antiquarian · June 2015

I agree with this idea.

ESO/Zenimax should charge $25 for the "demystication" service on a mount by mount basis.

This would be most equitable solution for everyone.

Iluvrien · June 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

A wonderful quote. Very much the profound and thought-provoking statement.

You do realise that it has nothing to do with the current conversation though, right?

Of course it does. ZeniMax doesn't have to justify their version of their lore to anybody, much less give them a paid option to toggle it on and off. Nobody's a special snowflake when it comes to what should or should not exist in the game.

It's commensalism. The owner of the mount is happy, and everybody else neither benefits nor is harmed. Saying that a custom mount intentionally added to the game is harmful is more about elitism than actual harm.

You want to talk about commercialism? Ok, let's set aside the lore argument for the moment and talk about commercialism.

Actually everybody should be made to feel that they are a special snowflake when it comes to what should or should not exist in the game. If the people don't like an item then they won't buy it. If they are continuously confronted by mechanics, situations or images that annoy them then they may well leave. I recently spent 2 years working, mostly as an analyst, for a market research firm based in central London dealing with customer opinions and the impact of those opinions every day. You know what I learned while doing that? If your customers stop feeling like "special snowflakes" then you start losing them. That is commercialism.

What @Gidorick is talking about is an option in the UI that could be as simple as a check-box that would select another horse model (from the list of pre-existing horse models if need be) to show you when checked.

In the basic, horse-replacement, case it would not need new art assets or new animations. Your client will already have the required models loaded, it just would need a toggle on your side (not even server-side) to select a different model to display (predefined in the code).

Back to commercialism! If the option relied on pre-existing assets and used the simplified form I detailed it seems to be a reasonable conclusion that the cost to ZOS in terms of time/energy/money would not be high. If people are suggesting they would pay for this option (I certainly would) then that would be event better. ZOS can make money from selling the stupid mounts and then make more for selling the option to hide them all.

As a final statement, saying that seeing 20 flaming mounts in one city square annoys me isn't about elitism, it is about whether that impacts on my enjoyment of the game experience presented to me. It is as simple as that.

Attorneyatlawl · June 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

@Yinmaigao if you honestly don't like zombies and wish them to be khajiit, by all means make a thread suggesting a way for that to be accomplished.

But that is not an apt comparison to what I'm suggesting. There is NO narrative reason for flaming horses and ice horses. If there were a quest that rewarded the fire horse, I wouldn't be suggesting this.

There is no narrative as to why players can have a pet fox either.

I am not trying to be confrontational, nor am I saying you shouldn't have the right to voice your opinions.

I am simply stating that I disagree with them, especially when people pick and choose what immersion breaking aspect they focus on.

Hopefully I have not been rude, it is not my intention.

I find it pretty non-immersive to have to stare at my hands or other small areas of the screen to make sure an ability went off rather than having a debuff or buff icon that accurately tells me whether it worked properly or not, in fact I have argued this as far back as beta and many of the same people now complaining about ice horses told anyone who agreed with my point of view to basically sod off.

Picking and choosing whatever's convenient for you to have fun in the game to make a thread to focus on and saying to everyone else, "Play my way or don't play, options are for suckers." isn't a good way to go about things or earn support from other players. I wouldn't even necessarily think this was an outrageous suggestion if not for the fact that the same groups of people demanded and still do demand that everyone must play with no accurate or useful stock UI, or that having the option to see people's names overhead clientside if they're on the same faction you are, would "ruin their immersion" despite never even touching their screens. Talk about your hypocritical double standards

.

There have been much more important requests/outright needs for the game than this kind of option for quite literally two years at this point from beta to the present. Perhaps once some of those are addressed, you'd see more community support for your idea @Gidorick

.

Attorneyatlawl · June 2015

Mettaricana wrote: »

im amazed how much people want this game to be bland and boring, first you take away boob windows, now any form of abnormal mount, next any hair color aside from brown black and blonde?...

its like reality check its an mmo not subway can't have everything your way remember arvik? he exists the nightmare horse doesn't seem to fall outside that category.

honestly as long as we dont add angelwings, batwings, or dragon mounts i'd say just enjoy what we have.

This... it fits in the theme of the game, so I really don't have a problem with it, heck I'll probably even buy the frost stallion to voice my support for the EXP potion and pay-to-win/progress changes in course ZOS has indicated more recently by putting my money where my mouth is, plus it's kind of a cool mount to boot. Modern day leather coats with machine guns as a costume? Yeah, that wouldn't be "lore friendly" or even "genre friendly". A horse that is magically enchanted to have frost hooves? That fits in a fantasy RPG thematically.

Elsonso · June 2015

ZedalisDesign wrote: »

I try to respect other players' opinions/wishes, I really do. But I can't help but sit here and think that a lot of these people should be playing a different game...maybe Skyrim?

Are we seriously talking about immersion here? In an MMO?

I agree that immersion is out the window, and is half way to the next town. It was half way to the next town at launch. I'm not sure why it is still a subject. ESO is not immersive. It is more immersive than GW2 or WoW, but it is not immersive.

However, to say that Skyrim is immersive is just as silly. One has to put a lot of mods into play to get close, and that still is not enough.

Mettaricana wrote: »

im amazed how much people want this game to be bland and boring, first you take away boob windows, now any form of abnormal mount

Flashy mounts do not make the game more interesting. Good writing and interesting things happening make the game more interesting. Flashy mounts make the game distracting, particularly when over used.

A few other random comments...

I don't need to feel like a special snowflake. I just prefer that they not put my common, everyday snowflake in the furnace room.

Gidorick · June 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

@Yinmaigao if you honestly don't like zombies and wish them to be khajiit, by all means make a thread suggesting a way for that to be accomplished.

But that is not an apt comparison to what I'm suggesting. There is NO narrative reason for flaming horses and ice horses. If there were a quest that rewarded the fire horse, I wouldn't be suggesting this.

There is no narrative as to why players can have a pet fox either.

I am not trying to be confrontational, nor am I saying you shouldn't have the right to voice your opinions.

I am simply stating that I disagree with them, especially when people pick and choose what immersion breaking aspect they focus on.

Hopefully I have not been rude, it is not my intention.

You are right that what I find immersion/lore breaking isn't what another player will find immersion/lore breaking. In the end, if it's in ESO... it's lore. I just wish there were just better justification for it.

Anyway... If the Fire and Ice horses weren't the same model as the regular horses, as in they are just reskins, I don't think I would suggest the ability to change the mount's model. For example, if ZOS ever added a mount like Arvak (skeleton horse) I wouldn't ask for there to be a feature to have a my client replace the entire model to be a normal horse... I would just have to accept that now there is a skeleton horse. But right now, we don't have those and if we can have a toggle to change the skins of the mounts it would greatly improve my personal playing experience.

And I obviously don't know what the limitations of the server/client relationship are. I assume that the server tells the client what mount the player is riding (for animations and such) separately from what skin is on that mount. This would cut down on the amount of data being sent so that each mount doesn't have to have it's own mesh, animations and skin. Using this method, we really just have 3 mounts in ESO: Horses, Senches, and Guars. Then we have a bunch of skins for each. The server would tell my client what mount the character is riding and what skin the mount has on.

If the skin is Nightmare Courser, my client would simply use Standard Courser skin (a normalized version of that skin) or ZOS would associate an already created skin (like the Gaited Horse) to that mount in that situation. Those of us who have that option turned on would simply see the Gaited Horse instead of the Nightmare Courser. If the model of the mount changed, like to a Senche mount, then there are all sorts of other considerations that would have to be made. Such as what riding, running, rearing, jumping animations need to be used.

But, like I said. I have no idea how these things are actually handled.

Oh, and I have my own issues with the Ice Wraith, but kind of going what I said above... that is the model of the pet, not just a skin. I wouldn't ask that the model be changed.

Perhaps asking that the skin be changed is just as complex as asking the model be changed. Perhaps it's not possible with the way ESO's servers communicate with its clients. I have no idea. I'm just going off my own personal assumptions sprinkled with a bit of hope and a dash of lore-junky-grumpiness.

I just know that if in a year I'm running around with red, blue, green, yellow fire mounts, different color ice horses, rock horses, earth horses, and water horses... it's going to be very detrimental to my experience. I don't want to play an ESO themed playground with action-figure-esque characters and a selection of "My-Elder-Ponies" to ride. I want an Multiplayer Elder Scrolls RPG that is immersive and gripping.

I know... we will probably get the former...

Gidorick · June 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

A wonderful quote. Very much the profound and thought-provoking statement.

You do realise that it has nothing to do with the current conversation though, right?

Of course it does. ZeniMax doesn't have to justify their version of their lore to anybody, much less give them a paid option to toggle it on and off. Nobody's a special snowflake when it comes to what should or should not exist in the game.

It's commensalism. The owner of the mount is happy, and everybody else neither benefits nor is harmed. Saying that a custom mount intentionally added to the game is harmful is more about elitism than actual harm.

Would you care if guns were added to ESO @Acrolas? How about motorcycles? How about Dwemer Cyborgs? How about Laser rifles? How about space battles? Argonian Meca that transform from giant t-rexes into fighter jets?

Would you mind ANY of that being added to ESO?

Gidorick · June 2015

The_Antiquarian wrote: »

I agree with this idea.

ESO/Zenimax should charge $25 for the "demystication" service on a mount by mount basis.

This would be most equitable solution for everyone.

Ugh... I'd cringe at having to shell out $25 every time a new mystical mount comes out... but I'd pay it. lol.

Gidorick · June 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

[snipped some good stuff for length]

Back to commercialism! If the option relied on pre-existing assets and used the simplified form I detailed it seems to be a reasonable conclusion that the cost to ZOS in terms of time/energy/money would not be high. If people are suggesting they would pay for this option (I certainly would) then that would be event better. ZOS can make money from selling the stupid mounts and then make more for selling the option to hide them all.

As a final statement, saying that seeing 20 flaming mounts in one city square annoys me isn't about elitism, it is about whether that impacts on my enjoyment of the game experience presented to me. It is as simple as that.

@Iluvrien are on the same page about this.

Gidorick · June 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

[snipped some good stuff for length... again!]

There have been much more important requests/outright needs for the game than this kind of option for quite literally two years at this point from beta to the present. Perhaps once some of those are addressed, you'd see more community support for your idea @Gidorick .

You make some good points @Attorneyatlawl. I personally love the minimalist UI but I 100% agree that things like minimap, damage indicators... heck.. HEALTH NUMBERS... all need to be added as an option for players. Forget that ZOS designed a minimal UI, this is about allowing players to play how they are comfortable playing. Especially... ESPECIALLY when ZOS allows those elements to be added to the UI with add-ons. So they're not against them being in the game, they're just against doing the work to making them standard? riiiiight.

And I do honestly try to consider the community in (most) of what I post. Heck, some of my favorite suggestions were spawned from me brainstorming of how a problem of the community's could be solved within the context of The Elder Scrolls. Both ESO Needs an Auction Horse and Training Dummies Concept are suggesting solutions to things... I don't really care to have in the game. I like that there's no auction house and I don't give two shakes at what my DPS is. That doesn't mean I don't recognize that others DO want these things. So I try to support that.

The lack of me getting what I want doesn't mean that you shouldn't get what you want. I don't concern myself with things like this should be before that... that's for ZOS to decide. If concepts like the one presented in this thread's OP are panned on the forum simply because there should be other things added before it there can be far reaching negative effect. Who's to say that ZOS won't look at the negativity in this thread and decide to NEVER add this feature because it appears that the community is against it?

Maybe I WILL get more community support for my idea once others are implemented but I really do expect this community to be open-minded and reasonable enough to be able to judge a concept on it's own merits and not judge everything with a foot stomping, bellyaching, "but-I-want-MY-toy" attitude.

Maybe I expect too much?

Gidorick · June 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

[snip for context]
A horse that is magically enchanted to have frost hooves? That fits in a fantasy RPG thematically.

But it doesn't fit The Elder Scrolls. We do not have frosted ponies wandering the countryside.

Where do you draw the line @Attorneyatlawl? A lot of things would"fit themeatically" into ESO. Dwemer airships exist in lore. What about a rideable dwemer mech... what if it transforms. We know they had transforming technology, look at the Dwemer Sphere. How about dragons? Dragons fit the theme. Griffins? Dog-people, we have cat-people. Why not dog-people... fits the theme.

"Fits the theme" and "agrees with the lore" are two different things.

Gidorick · June 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

However, to say that Skyrim is immersive is just as silly. One has to put a lot of mods into play to get close, and that still is not enough.

ugh... isn't this the truth. lol. I guess the fact that we have to rely on ZOS to make ESO immersive is kind of frustrating. Addons like SweetFX help a little.

Yinmaigao · June 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

[snip for context]? Dog-people, we have cat-people. Why not dog-people... fits the theme.

You joke about this... but my wife asked the same question today. She has played all the prior TES games and is a hard-core Bethesda fan, knowing the lore.

However... she likes dogs instead of cats and thinks it is silly to have one and not the other regardless of if it fits prior (future? lol) lore or not

Just made me laugh when I saw this point

Gidorick · June 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

[snip for context]? Dog-people, we have cat-people. Why not dog-people... fits the theme.

You joke about this... but my wife asked the same question today. She has played all the prior TES games and is a hard-core Bethesda fan, knowing the lore.

However... she likes dogs instead of cats and thinks it is silly to have one and not the other regardless of if it fits prior (future? lol) lore or not

Just made me laugh when I saw this point

hehe. That is funny. Does she know about the Lilmothiit? I would LOVE to see those in ESO at some point. Fox people!

To get back on track... I would NOT ask those to have a "reskin-toggle" hehe.

Blackhorne · June 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

The point is? As silly as this sounds, they directly negatively impact my playing experience. So, I would like a purchasable Mystical Mounts Ignore toggle so that "cool" mounts like the Nightmare Courser and Frostmare appear as "Normal" mounts to me.

So the fire horse would go from this:

To this:

I like this idea, but I'm not quite sure... Would the toggle also effect the sex- and race-change?

Gidorick · June 2015

Blackhorne wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The point is? As silly as this sounds, they directly negatively impact my playing experience. So, I would like a purchasable Mystical Mounts Ignore toggle so that "cool" mounts like the Nightmare Courser and Frostmare appear as "Normal" mounts to me.

So the fire horse would go from this:

To this:

I like this idea, but I'm not quite sure... Would the toggle also effect the sex- and race-change?

lol. since that would change the model of the character... Nope.

rynth · June 2015

All this stuff about lore, you all realize this is not real life that there is no lore that is set in stone. It is all fantasy and as such lore can be bent, fiddled with, and EASILY added to. I mean where do you get your lore from? From somebody who has rights to the elder scroll name writing something they made up about a game that they used their imagination to create? Heck even in real life history things have been forgotten from the past, I'm sure really important things and events that happened are long forgotten to the history books of today. Remember fantasy lore can be changed by anybody with rights to the game to change it how they see fit, a perfect example of this being Star Wars. Also keep in mind this is an MMO and as such you have people that play this game not because of it being Elder Scrolls but because they like the game for other reason and probably could care less if it was Elder Scrolls. Not to mention also the money aspect of purchasing a so cold frozen mount.

Also I'm curious where is it stated that this mount is for sale, cause I didn't see anything on the home page advertising about this mount. I really would hope people are getting excited about something that has NOT been confirmed as going into the game. It would seem foolish to get all excited over nothing putting the proverbial horse before the cart.

Gidorick · June 2015

And I have said time and time again @rynth, If there were a quest that rewarded the fire horse, I wouldn't be suggesting this. I would prefer that there be a quest associated with the mount that gives us players a reason for the mount.

As is... there is ZERO justification to have these mystical mounts in Tamriel other than "I bought it in the Crown Store". These mounts aren't roaming wild... heck. I would LOVE it if there were some fire horses around Red Mountain. Just put the things IN THE WORLD in a way other than just through the Crown Store.

Because right now every time I see one of these mounts I just see ESO being sold out... cheaply.

I am not putting the horse before the cart, we already have the Nightmare Courser. My original post in this thread is actually a copy/paste/elaboration of a post I made in the Crown Concept thread on May 6th. The data-mine of the Frostmare just gave me the desire to post this more visibly.

You are right about the money aspect and that is the aspect I am considering here. ZOS sells mystical mounts to players. I will very likely never buy a mystical mount so ZOS is losing a sale. I would pay to not see these mystical mounts running about. That would gain ZOS a sale that they would not have had before.

I'm not taking anything away from any players but myself. ZOS will be making more money from its customers. My experience will be more enjoyable for me leading to a happier customer.

I honestly do not see the negatives here.

Saturn · June 2015

Compared to these mounts a unicorn would make more sense lore wise

Saddiq · June 2015

Doesn't hurt that there are unicorns in the Elder Scrolls. You kill one for Hircine in Oblivion.

Heromofo · June 2015

Saturn wrote: »

Compared to these mounts a unicorn would make more sense lore wise

@Saturn
"Well answered, youngling! The unicorn would win easily in any single close combat. No mortal or even dragon can move quickly enough to land a blow and it cannot be burned or touched by any magic or elemental power. Its hooves are deadly and a single touch of its horn will kill any enemy, although the horn itself will burn away. The most powerful can regenerate it within moments, however."
―Moraelyn[src]
The Unicorn is a type of mount that can be found at Harcane Grove, where it is guarded by three Minotaurs of the Grove. To mount the horse, one must sneak up to it and press the use button. However, the unicorn will become provoked and will attack if the Hero approaches while wielding a weapon (this includes fists).

Once mounted, the unicorn is considered the Hero's property and will fast travel with them, but it cannot be armored with the horse armor pack. If the Hero gets off the unicorn and it starts walking away, it will eventually make its way back to the Grove. It can be stopped by re-mounting it. Otherwise, the unicorn acts just like any horse; it will stay with the Hero while they wait, rest, or do other things. If the unicorn is killed in any way, it will not respawn.
Let the unicorn madness begin again

Darkonflare15 · June 2015

Hmm... if there there was addon that got rid of what people consider lore-wise than I want a add on that prevents me from seeing every other player in this game. Since it not lore-wise to see all these magical slinging characters, with different color dyes on their armor, switching weapons in an instant, riding fantasy horses while having pets that do not die,while doing push ups, sit ups, and doing jumping jacks because I never seen this done in any past elder scrolls games.Also there should not be multiple players that defeated Molag bal. There can be only one. Oh yeah I forgot this is a mmo. Also the lore master already explain how elder scrolls lore works. If you can see it in the game than it is in the lore. So no point argue about this since every elder scrolls game has broken the lore from the previous one.

Gidorick · June 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Hmm... if there there was addon that got rid of what people consider lore-wise than I want a add on that prevents me from seeing every other player in this game. Since it not lore-wise to see all these magical slinging characters, with different color dyes on their armor, switching weapons in an instant, riding fantasy horses while having pets that do not die,while doing push ups, sit ups, and doing jumping jacks because I never seen this done in any past elder scrolls games.Also there should not be multiple players that defeated Molag bal. There can be only one. Oh yeah I forgot this is a mmo. Also the lore master already explain how elder scrolls lore works. If you can see it in the game than it is in the lore. So no point argue about this since every elder scrolls game has broken the lore from the previous one.

Argue about a feature that some players want, and will pay for, that will increase revenue for ZOS and the satisfaction of those players?

You're right... there is no point in arguing about this.

But honestly what you're requesting this concept to isn't analogous.

Other players are an intrinsic part of the game.
I DO have issues with the fact that everyone is a mage. I've touched on this in other threads.
People HAVE complained about dyes, I don't mind them
weapon swapping is a game mechanic, I generally don't ask to remove game mechanics.
THIS thread is about my issues with the fantasy horses, do you mean the Senche and Guar?
Senche and Guar mounts and pets are revenue items and player systems. I don't ask to remove those.
People emoting working out is not an issue. Common sense.
Multiple players did not defeat Molag Bal. In the context of ESO all other players are simply adventurers.

I understand that its lore if it's in the game but there IS no lore about WHY the fire horse and soon to be ice horse is in the game. No reason. No explanations. Just money paid.

Oh and I realize you're just trolling me. The responses were for my own amusement more than anything.

nimander99 · June 2015

You do know that the frost mount is actually a lore-positive mount right? see the Snow Prince's mount

Anyhooser nothing wrong with more options in an mmo so I see no prob with your idea.

BBSooner · June 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

@Yinmaigao if you honestly don't like zombies and wish them to be khajiit, by all means make a thread suggesting a way for that to be accomplished.

But that is not an apt comparison to what I'm suggesting. There is NO narrative reason for flaming horses and ice horses. If there were a quest that rewarded the fire horse, I wouldn't be suggesting this.

There is no narrative as to why players can have a pet fox either.

I am not trying to be confrontational, nor am I saying you shouldn't have the right to voice your opinions.

I am simply stating that I disagree with them, especially when people pick and choose what immersion breaking aspect they focus on.

Hopefully I have not been rude, it is not my intention.

I find it pretty non-immersive to have to stare at my hands or other small areas of the screen to make sure an ability went off rather than having a debuff or buff icon that accurately tells me whether it worked properly or not, in fact I have argued this as far back as beta and many of the same people now complaining about ice horses told anyone who agreed with my point of view to basically sod off.

Picking and choosing whatever's convenient for you to have fun in the game to make a thread to focus on and saying to everyone else, "Play my way or don't play, options are for suckers." isn't a good way to go about things or earn support from other players. I wouldn't even necessarily think this was an outrageous suggestion if not for the fact that the same groups of people demanded and still do demand that everyone must play with no accurate or useful stock UI, or that having the option to see people's names overhead clientside if they're on the same faction you are, would "ruin their immersion" despite never even touching their screens. Talk about your hypocritical double standards .

There have been much more important requests/outright needs for the game than this kind of option for quite literally two years at this point from beta to the present. Perhaps once some of those are addressed, you'd see more community support for your idea @Gidorick .

I'm less interested in "immersion" as opposed to maintaining consistency with the worlds presented in the previous entries of the series.

"Importance" is also hugely relative at this point. Neither a client toggle for this or increased HUD information are necessarily "important". I won't pretend that a cosmetic toggle is important, nor would I pretend that having multiple alerts for the same buff is important.

BBSooner · June 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

You do know that the frost mount is actually a lore-positive mount right? see the Snow Prince's mount

Anyhooser nothing wrong with more options in an mmo so I see no prob with your idea.

A single instance of a mount: Lore appropriate.

Every race in Tamriel riding around en masse across every corner of Tamriel: Lore inappropriate.

Gidorick · June 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

You do know that the frost mount is actually a lore-positive mount right? see the Snow Prince's mount

Anyhooser nothing wrong with more options in an mmo so I see no prob with your idea.

The snow prince rode upon "brilliant steed of pallid white"... I guess it depends on what this frost horse looks like in game, eh? Cool read though! Thanks for that.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2015

Shouldn't even have to pay Crowns for it - should be a checkbox in the friggin' settings.

Things (not) rendered Client side would only speed things up, I would imagine.

Gidorick · June 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Shouldn't even have to pay Crowns for it - should be a checkbox in the friggin' settings.

Things (not) rendered Client side would only speed things up, I would imagine.

Kind of like mage light I guess.