Prizax wrote: »

lol not bad I guess, but I just hope there is a point in using them for those who already have 60,60,60.

No. That would no longer even be in the realm of argument on P2W or not. Getting to max faster? Debatable. Getting higher than max with cash? P2W no doubt.

Convenience vs bonus.

It's just turning a gold sink into a cash sink.

For ZOS, why would they NOT want to do this?

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

I see all these P2W tears, from the same people who were raging against subs.

I defended ZOS religiously when people were saying the game would go B2P/F2P. I thought "no way would they stray from the sub model. It's BY FAR the best model for quality content and support. They even said they would never go B2P/F2P for that very reason"

Now, here we are with the B2P cash store, and the game is going about as crappily as I would have expected with the B2P transition.

Sallington wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

If it circumvents the daily cooldown, it's P2W.

THIS^

Uh what? Pay to win is getting something more than someone else can. This is basically saying everything is pay to win if it saves time? So they can add nothing and make no money. Good logic.

Or, you know, they could stick to what they original said and just fill the shop with cosmetics. Mounts, costumes, etc.

There's no shortage of money to be made there I'm sure.

There is enough a shortage for them to look at things and decide to fix it. While I would prefer this handled differently, I think it is a good way to both make money and speed things up.
Note, they also spoke of adding convenience items. Saving time=convince. Mounts are a time sink (the gold is barely anything over a 6month period). There is a max and there is no direct combat bonus to mounts (time taken to travel, even in Cyrodiil is not a direct combat benefit).

theweakminded wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

If it circumvents the daily cooldown, it's P2W.

THIS^

Uh what? Pay to win is getting something more than someone else can. This is basically saying everything is pay to win if it saves time? So they can add nothing and make no money. Good logic.

Or, you know, they could stick to what they original said and just fill the shop with cosmetics. Mounts, costumes, etc.

There's no shortage of money to be made there I'm sure.

There is enough a shortage for them to look at things and decide to fix it. While I would prefer this handled differently, I think it is a good way to both make money and speed things up.
Note, they also spoke of adding convenience items. Saving time=convince. Mounts are a time sink (the gold is barely anything over a 6month period). There is a max and there is no direct combat bonus to mounts (time taken to travel, even in Cyrodiil is not a direct combat benefit).

I think that's why the community is so split on P2W items.

There's the opinion that P2W only refers to an advantage in combat, and then there's the opinion that gives and advantage to time played to achieve something.

My opinion if you can pay money to do something quicker than someone else, it's P2W.

I wonder if there will be a "cooldown" for these as well (e.g. can only use one, or one of each type, per day), or if you can just buy 59 of each and use them all at once. I think this is useful, and doesn't provide a real advantage in any way, even in Cyrodiil -- if you can't kill a person while they are still on their horse, no matter how fast they're going, that's your problem for not knowing how to spam a gap closer.

I do think it is interesting, however, that this is a very clear indicator of how far back they've been planning the Crown Store/B2P. One of the first screenshots of a Champion constellation from last fall showed a passive that allowed feeding your mount more than once a day. There was a minor outcry of how useless such a passive was, and Gina replied that they had already taken that ability out of the constellation. And here we are.

It is also interesting that ZOS seems to have tacitly adopted a "Crown Store preview" system by knowing people will datamine each new patch and revealing what's coming up soon in the Store. So far, the datamined items have been very accurate with what's will soon be released, or at least what they are thinking about releasing. Without fail, posts are made on forums and the items are debated, which provides ZOS useful data to gauge player responses and market for the proposed item. Clever marketing strategy.

PKMN12 wrote: »

LameoveR wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

ESO+ only adds about 10%, the potions were going to add 50%, which is INSANE.

10% bonus to experience point gain
10% bonus to crafting research
10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain
10% bonus to gold acquisition
And it's ALL the time you have ESO+. It's more "P2W" than XP potions and CHEAPER!

your joking right? 10% is almost nothing, nice, but no where near P2W

10% is nothing, but 50% is p2w.
"I stole only 1k$, he's stole 500$k, i'm ok, he's a thief!"
What a nonsense.
As i said recently, "p2w" is like a worm in your brains.

Sallington wrote: »

Or, you know, they could stick to what they original said and just fill the shop with cosmetics. Mounts, costumes, etc.

There's no shortage of money to be made there I'm sure.

You must be confused with them saying that the crown store will have convenience items that will save players time. You know like not having to spend 180 days to max out your horse.

What makes me even more sad than ZOS' unscrupulous money-grabbing is the turn in the community from "never take my sub away" to "yay, more stuff in the crown store!"

Not long and everyone defending the old ways will have left, giving ZOS a free pass for total monetization. Once you're in, you never again climb out of the F2P-hole.

The fix to long research times is not Crown Store, it is shorter research times.

This fix to 180 days to maximize horse training is not Crown Store, it is less time to maximize traning.

The fix to all game play issues happens to be fixing the game.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

If this actually maxes out the stat and is priced fairly I may consider buying it.

lol, it probably won't, and definitely will not be.

Unless you think that a Dwemer motif should cost as much as a brand new AAA title.

/shrug

lordrichter wrote: »

The fix to long research times is not Crown Store, it is shorter research times.

This fix to 180 days to maximize horse training is not Crown Store, it is less time to maximize traning.

The fix to all game play issues happens to be fixing the game.

Classic B2P/F2P structure.

Step 1: Introduce grinds and time sinks to the game.
Step 2: Offer a way to bypass said grinds and time sinks for cash

This gives them no incentive to balance the game, or make it better in any way. You want a pleasant experience? Pay up.

Faulgor wrote: »

What makes me even more sad than ZOS' unscrupulous money-grabbing is the turn in the community from "never take my sub away" to "yay, more stuff in the crown store!"

Not long and everyone defending the old ways will have left, giving ZOS a free pass for total monetization. Once you're in, you never again climb out of the F2P-hole.

Which is what happened to every game I played that transitioned. The people that didn't like it left, and those that remained embraced the Cash Shop. Then, rather than the forums being clogged with multi-thread petitions against inevitability, you get glowing praise for the new set of Uber Flaming Shoulderpads of Awesomeness, and Sparkle Ponies.

Zathras wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

What makes me even more sad than ZOS' unscrupulous money-grabbing is the turn in the community from "never take my sub away" to "yay, more stuff in the crown store!"

Not long and everyone defending the old ways will have left, giving ZOS a free pass for total monetization. Once you're in, you never again climb out of the F2P-hole.

Which is what happened to every game I played that transitioned. The people that didn't like it left, and those that remained embraced the Cash Shop. Then, rather than the forums being clogged with multi-thread petitions against inevitability, you get glowing praise for the new set of Uber Flaming Shoulderpads of Awesomeness, and Sparkle Ponies.

Well duh, that's exactly what ZOS wants to happen. Unless you're a whale, you can get lost for all they care. After all, they already got the money you paid for the box, and you even gave them a couple hundred bucks on top of that.

As far as ZOS is concerned, you've paid more than they expect from non-whales anyway. Why would they care if you stick around or not if you have all these moral dilemmas?

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

I see all these P2W tears, from the same people who were raging against subs.

Wrong. I paid a sub till day before yesterday. never complained once about it either. I just don't know what I am paying for at the moment.