nastuug wrote: »

I never mentioned any type of conspiracy whereby all elitist trading guilds are working together.

nastuug wrote: »

So I guess the ability for humans to browse and purchase goods over the Internet from all parts of the world is inferior to a handful of markets run by the equivalent of drug cartels?

You know damn well it's developed into a small few who have the prime merchants on lockdown.

Actually it's the elitist trading guilds that don't want competition. Zero competition means 100% market control.

Very good. Please tell your buddies. Enjoy your cartels while they last.

We have a small cartel of overly wealthy guilds controlling the market right now.

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

Amen.

Sadly though, these truthful words will fall on mostly deaf ears. Many people that dislike the kiosk system choose to ignore facts like these. I guess it's easier for them to just grab a pitchfork.

There are so many flat out untrue accusations aimed at those of us that enjoy the system that I no longer even have the energy to properly explain things like you did.

I used to. I used to write up long, detailed posts like this attempting to end the mob mentality, but it seems to have zero effect so I no longer put that much effort into it. People find it much easier to hate that which they don't understand rather than listen to the truth.

ZoS understands though. Thankfully.

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

Alphashado wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

Amen.

Sadly though, these truthful words will fall on mostly deaf ears. Many people that dislike the kiosk system choose to ignore facts like these. I guess it's easier for them to just grab a pitchfork.

There are so many flat out untrue accusations aimed at those of us that enjoy the system that I no longer even have the energy to properly explain things like you did.

I used to. I used to write up long, detailed posts like this attempting to end the mob mentality, but it seems to have zero effect so I no longer put that much effort into it. People find it much easier to hate that which they don't understand rather than listen to the truth.

ZoS understands though. Thankfully.

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

You do realize that guild sales tax revenue seldom generates enough gold to pay for the kiosk right? This is why many guilds (yes even the best ones) are forced to rely on donations, raffles, prizes, stern sales requirements, and inactive policies. Not to mention GMs are actually having to use their own money or accept donations from their officers in order to pay for the locations they hold.

But the mob doesn't want to hear things like this because it ruins their witch hunt.

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

Amen.

Sadly though, these truthful words will fall on mostly deaf ears. Many people that dislike the kiosk system choose to ignore facts like these. I guess it's easier for them to just grab a pitchfork.

There are so many flat out untrue accusations aimed at those of us that enjoy the system that I no longer even have the energy to properly explain things like you did.

I used to. I used to write up long, detailed posts like this attempting to end the mob mentality, but it seems to have zero effect so I no longer put that much effort into it. People find it much easier to hate that which they don't understand rather than listen to the truth.

ZoS understands though. Thankfully.

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

You do realize that guild sales tax revenue seldom generates enough gold to pay for the kiosk right? This is why many guilds (yes even the best ones) are forced to rely on donations, raffles, prizes, stern sales requirements, and inactive policies. Not to mention GMs are actually having to use their own money or accept donations from their officers in order to pay for the locations they hold.

But the mob doesn't want to hear things like this because it ruins their witch hunt.

Actually I do realize that. Doesn't change the fact that merchant locations are on lockdown.

And boohoo, corporations are people too, eh? Give it a rest already.

edit: Actually wait, you're defending the position of GMs having to use their own money and/or force officers to comply with "Guild Association" fee in order to keep those locations? Hell that's even more proof that they are keeping locations on lockdown.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

However often have better reasons than "I CBA to move around the world".

The minority are the only ones who support the current market system. They only do so because once the doors are blown open, they will be forced to compete with every single player, regardless of guild association.

You make an assumption as to who the minority is.

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@nastuug could you please make a clear and constructive post about how a global auction house would prove beneficial to both the player community and the game?

If you could outline the pros and cons of each system, add some thoughts on how issues which might unfold could be overcome.

Then we might be able to see what you problems with the current system are. Right now your posts seem more like you're upset others are more successful than you are, that corporations are evil, drug cartels play ESO.

You have spent more time insulting members of the community and making baseless accusations in this thread than actually helping players who want a global auction house post a relevant argument. As I posted earlier, we're not the ones you need to convince, ZOS are. How are you posts achieving that, or are you in this thread just to troll people and argue the same points over and over without giving any facts or evidence for your theories.

@Turelus Oh boy, you totally went there. Well, I've gone through more than enough constructive threads that have been created detailing how a global auction house could help enhance current trading process for the majority of users.

I'm not upset that others are more successful. Perhaps if you read all my posts, you would know that I'm part of a trading guild and sell my pixel junk every day. Sure, my bank isn't filled with billions of gold, but I do alright. Yes, I'm directly comparing them to evil corporations and drug cartels. Forcing members to pay a "Guild Membership fee" on top of taxes, even dropping way more than needed gold from their own personal account just to lock prime merchant locations down. Hmm, sounds like the typical evil corporation we have all come to know and love...

I have not directly insulted members of the community. I've never mentioned a single person or guild name in my "accusations," so cross that load of crap off your list.

I'm not trolling; I'm fighting the derps defending an antiquated trading system that hinders the majority of players from partaking in what should be an easy-to-use economy/trading system.

nastuug wrote: »

I have not directly insulted members of the community.

nastuug wrote: »

You don't need to work together to control the market, dingus.

nastuug wrote: »

I'm not trolling; I'm fighting the derps defending an antiquated trading system that hinders the majority of players from partaking in what should be an easy-to-use economy/trading system.

Alphashado wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@nastuug could you please make a clear and constructive post about how a global auction house would prove beneficial to both the player community and the game?

If you could outline the pros and cons of each system, add some thoughts on how issues which might unfold could be overcome.

Then we might be able to see what you problems with the current system are. Right now your posts seem more like you're upset others are more successful than you are, that corporations are evil, drug cartels play ESO.

You have spent more time insulting members of the community and making baseless accusations in this thread than actually helping players who want a global auction house post a relevant argument. As I posted earlier, we're not the ones you need to convince, ZOS are. How are you posts achieving that, or are you in this thread just to troll people and argue the same points over and over without giving any facts or evidence for your theories.

@Turelus Oh boy, you totally went there. Well, I've gone through more than enough constructive threads that have been created detailing how a global auction house could help enhance current trading process for the majority of users.

I'm not upset that others are more successful. Perhaps if you read all my posts, you would know that I'm part of a trading guild and sell my pixel junk every day. Sure, my bank isn't filled with billions of gold, but I do alright. Yes, I'm directly comparing them to evil corporations and drug cartels. Forcing members to pay a "Guild Membership fee" on top of taxes, even dropping way more than needed gold from their own personal account just to lock prime merchant locations down. Hmm, sounds like the typical evil corporation we have all come to know and love...

I have not directly insulted members of the community. I've never mentioned a single person or guild name in my "accusations," so cross that load of crap off your list.

I'm not trolling; I'm fighting the derps defending an antiquated trading system that hinders the majority of players from partaking in what should be an easy-to-use economy/trading system.

So you think it's ok for a GM and officers to pay out of their own pocket to retain a kiosk location, but asking members to pay a fee in order to retain these locations all of a sudden converts the scenario from justice to preying on innocent guild members? Doesn't everyone in the guild have access to the same store at the same location? Doesn't everyone in the guild have the exact same opportunity to make gold as the GM and officers? So what you are saying is that the GM and officers should be the only ones to pay out of their pocket just so the rest of the guild can take advantage of their kindness? Why do you wrongly presume that trading guild GM/Officers have more gold than average joe on their roster?

You arguments do not make any sense. As someone above mentioned, it appears as though you simply have some kind of issue with any kind of structured environment or that which you don't understand.

Just like a witch hunt.

• Can't search Guild Traders without third party addon support
• Must travel to many different NPC's to hunt for specific pixel junk
• Inability to sell anything unless you're part of a large trading guild
• Inability for small-to-medium guilds to compete to sell the same exact pixel junk

nastuug wrote: »

Yes, elitist trading guilds are locking down prime merchant locations, which are already extremely limited compared to the number of guilds/players on the megaserver.

You call my claims "accusations," and I call your accusations a "load of crap." You really see a difference there?

Razzak wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the history of kiosk owners. If certain kiosks were owned by only few guilds in the past, it's a clear indication something is wrong and those that say this current system promotes elitism, are correct.
Would anyone object to such information becoming public?

How would zone centered AH or kiosk hurt the economy?

How would guilds with 5000 instead of 500 members hurt the economy?