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• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
· PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Why is everybody against an auction house?
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MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭Exactly. No AH means it's that much harder for gold sellers to do business. Lets not assume that the rodents won't ever come back so we're free to cover the house in garbage again, m'kay.
Except there was no auction house to begin with, and yet on launch day(early access launch) the game was literally swarming with bots/gold spammers.
Auction houses are not the cause of gold spammers. Next fallacy.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.7 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I can't really see how a RPer would get any enjoyment out of guild traders or an auction house given both occur through an immersion breaking trade interface. If RP is your motivation you would probably get more out of putting together a real time auction rather than going after guild traders.MercyKilling wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Sooo, you just don't like the economic system because it is different, and you are not interested in socializing online at all in games?
The first of a false premise. Why do the supporters of the current system always throw out the “you’re antisocial” argument to those people who don’t want to join guilds? Because personally, I just don’t want to be forced into a guild just to trade. It’s asinine and antiquated. It’s also the exact opposite of free trade.
I used to open world RP a ton. I’m a very social person in online games. I like to “get into the game”. Forcing me to join a guild to be able to effectively sell anything is wrong.
V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »The only flaw I see is to guild stores, but they could all be what makes up the auction house.
Instead of a general auction house, like most games, it could be made out of guild stores and work so that you would be buying just like you bought from that guild. It would also decrease, but not eliminate, the need for a vendor.
It wouldn't hurt the social aspect either. How would it be any different than running around to the various guild stores like we already do? It wouldn't. It would be more convenient for sellers (guilds only) and buyers.
Not everyone is. But a very vocal part of the community is. The problem with the guild store system is that it allows for a captive market where you do not get fairly priced items. It's like the coal miners from years ago. You worked at the mine, the mine owner had a store and place for you to live. You had no means to get to another store so the owner could gouge you for the items you want to buy. Same thing here.1 -
Theosis✭✭✭✭
Somebody posted this on another thread but it applies here. Those that can use this system effectively will continue to rip off and extort everyone else and be very vocally against a global AHThis is were my signature would be if I was allowed one.6 -
deadarmy5Soul ShrivenPersonally, I have seen Auction houses both destroy and help games. For example, in SWTOR, it very nearly destroyed the whole point of finding resources and the very economy of the game at one point because it was cheaper to just pay for it than actually do the work yourself. Not to mention making crafted gear almost meaningless. Which in my opinion runes the very point of crafting something "for yourself" or selling crafted gear. On the other side I've seen auction houses do some good and help to create a flowing economy in games where trading, buying and selling was the whole point,, such as during the early days of WoW. Personally I think the guild stores are a good compromise and I think adding in an auction house would just give "horders" another excuse to play the game incorrectly; i.e. take short cuts instead of actually playing it out like was intended.
If you don't agree with me, that's fine. But it is literally nearly impossible to say that auction houses wouldn't be abused almost immediately if they were implemented making hunting down resources and crafting nearly pointless at times, and possibly cause problems to the games economy (both player and game based).0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »Exactly. No AH means it's that much harder for gold sellers to do business. Lets not assume that the rodents won't ever come back so we're free to cover the house in garbage again, m'kay.
Except there was no auction house to begin with, and yet on launch day(early access launch) the game was literally swarming with bots/gold spammers.
Auction houses are not the cause of gold spammers. Next fallacy.
Nice try, but you know damn well I never said any such thing. I believe that one's called the straw-man fallacy.
Gold spammers = vermin.
Global AH = old cheese.
It's naive to think that old cheese won't attract vermin."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »Exactly. No AH means it's that much harder for gold sellers to do business. Lets not assume that the rodents won't ever come back so we're free to cover the house in garbage again, m'kay.
Except there was no auction house to begin with, and yet on launch day(early access launch) the game was literally swarming with bots/gold spammers.
Auction houses are not the cause of gold spammers. Next fallacy.
Nice try, but you know damn well I never said any such thing. I believe that one's called the straw-man fallacy.
Gold spammers = vermin.
Global AH = old cheese.
It's naive to think that old cheese won't attract vermin.
Y'know...I really do think you have a hard time accepting the fact that an auction house literally has nothing to do with gold spammers at all, which is why you keep trying to refute the fact.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example."
Mark Twain
I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People who think the current system is controlled by market tycoons would be in for quite a surprise if this game shifted to a global system. What we see here is small peas. It is very difficult to controll and manipulate this market due to all of the individual kiosks. And any market manipulation done here is orchastrated by average joe gamer sitting at his desk.
A global system would bring in professionals. Entities that would truly prey on this community and manipulate the market in ways only dreamed about with this current system. They would be in it to make real money. A lot of it.
Be careful what you ask for. The grass is seldom greener on the other side.4 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just a small vocal minority is against it. Probably the same people that tried to ruin diablo with their "self-found only" campaign.2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And I'm not sure why people keep using "small vocal minority" to describe the number of people opposed to a global system. Every poll on this topic (and there are many) show a 50/50 split. Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true.
An AH in this game would have to be global. Half of this community wants no part of that.2 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Half of this community doesn't want other people to have things that they don't have to use or participate in.
I don't want it so NO ONE can have it. Forget vocal minority, we should call them selfish minority.3 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »It is very difficult to controll and manipulate this market due to all of the individual kiosks. .
But it isn't very difficult to control/lock down the best kiosks. Which is happening. Item flipping is also happening. Y'know...pretty much everything that the supporters of the current system say is bad about auction houses is already happening.......so why not have an auction house, hmm?
Oh, that's right. You'd lose the precious monopoly and have a less firm grip on the economy and profits would be shared by anyone that participated, instead of shared by anyone in your guild.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.1 -
Robotmafia✭✭✭well its great way for them to take gold out of circulation.. 500-1500k a week per vendor... that's a lot of cheddar leaving the economyRobot Who Owes Money: Look into your hard drive and open your mercy file!
Donbot: File not found.
EU/PC0 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »And I'm not sure why people keep using "small vocal minority" to describe the number of people opposed to a global system. Every poll on this topic (and there are many) show a 50/50 split. Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true.
An AH in this game would have to be global. Half of this community wants no part of that.
Wow, even when presented with the actual facts of the matter, you still cling to the fallacy that it's an even split. Every poll(yes, even the one you created) on the topic shows a small minority want to keep the system the way it is, with a majority of the people answering/participating in the poll wanting SOME FORM OF CHANGE. So what's this about saying something over and over again not making it true?
Also, the other half of the community does want some kind of change. All an auction house would do is sway the balance away from those that currently possess the wealth.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.1 -
Robotmafia✭✭✭Personally, I have seen Auction houses both destroy and help games. For example, in SWTOR, it very nearly destroyed the whole point of finding resources and the very economy of the game at one point because it was cheaper to just pay for it than actually do the work yourself. Not to mention making crafted gear almost meaningless. Which in my opinion runes the very point of crafting something "for yourself" or selling crafted gear. On the other side I've seen auction houses do some good and help to create a flowing economy in games where trading, buying and selling was the whole point,, such as during the early days of WoW. Personally I think the guild stores are a good compromise and I think adding in an auction house would just give "horders" another excuse to play the game incorrectly; i.e. take short cuts instead of actually playing it out like was intended.
If you don't agree with me, that's fine. But it is literally nearly impossible to say that auction houses wouldn't be abused almost immediately if they were implemented making hunting down resources and crafting nearly pointless at times, and possibly cause problems to the games economy (both player and game based).
how is that different here? i can go buy crafted potions for example from a guild trader instead of gathering and crafting them myself...Robot Who Owes Money: Look into your hard drive and open your mercy file!
Donbot: File not found.
EU/PC1 -
Lithium Flower✭✭✭✭I like the current system. It's a massive gold sink which helps keep inflation in check. It's organic and fluid while retaining a time/effort hurdle to trading, which makes it a viable and profitable activity. The fact that a certain end-game item will likely be available at Craglorn for a higher price means that some people will pay extra to pick it up and others will go hunting for bargains.
As someone else pointed out above, the fact that trading requires a substantial amount of player effort in all aspects is a great thing - whether it's the time and effort involved in finding just the right bargain, to the time and effort involved to finding a good trade guild, or the 100s of manhours required to successfully manage and maintain a top-location guild store.
There's a whole community that's evolved around the way trade happens in eso - an auction house will destroy it completely overnight. Trade guilds are a huge and important part of the community and the primary way people first interact with each other - trade guilds were amongst the first guilds I joined. The connections I made there led to PvP and PvE activities. If I had never had a reason to join my first guild, I would have likely finished questing and lost interest in the game instead I found an eco-system which brought all kinds of players into contact with each other - rpers and pvers and pvpers and trial raiders. This is true for a very large and significant proportion of players who don't enter the game with a pre-determined group.
Again, it feels that a small but vocal minority want to undermine and eliminate any aspect of the game that involves interacting successfully with multiple people. It really makes me wonder why they're playing an MMO.Dragonknight Smith of the Lith | Rayna Dreloth
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Nightblade Adda Vorenor
Ebonheart Pact | Daggerfall Covenant | EU | Champion Points ~ 800 | Crafter of all things4 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All I see from many people here are blind accusations, blind insults, and finger pointing. I hate to break this to you guys, but most of the people opposed to a global system are NOT rich. We are NOT manipulating prices. We are NOT tycoons looking to take advantage of the little guy. Are there some people out there like this? Probably. But most of us aren't. We simply don't want a global system. We like this system for various reasons.
Maybe it makes it easier for you people to sleep at night by envisioning everyone that disagrees with you as a villain. But it's just getting old. If you want to hate someone, hate zos. But stop hating other people just because they have different tastes.1 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭It would be interesting to see the history of kiosk owners. If certain kiosks were owned by only few guilds in the past, it's a clear indication something is wrong and those that say this current system promotes elitism, are correct.
Would anyone object to such information becoming public?
How would zone centered AH or kiosk hurt the economy?
How would guilds with 5000 instead of 500 members hurt the economy?
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Current system is awesome! Why? Because if u want to buy something uniqe u have to travel for it, and sometimes when u reach a place abandoned by everyone, loneley guild trader, u can buy it 3x cheaper than at e.g. Craglorn. And when u want to buy common items u can buy them at ANY guild store, realy the only time when im forced to run through all zones it is when i want to buy something expensive, cause there is a chance that i will buy it much cheaper. If u would have global ah, there wouldnt be any price diferneces. Just like in Aion, when u look for something u can see that there is 100 positions of wanted item and diference in prices between each position is like 1g, just to have better position in AH. Its so boring and very iritating when u put like 20 items for selling and few minutes later someone else is selling the same things but with price lower by 1 gold, so he will be on the top position when it goes for a price... Not to mention, that current system is very good for guild members relations. And if it goes for top guilds manipulating prices... How? U think that if there would be an AH peeps would sell things cheaper than top guild members? Or they would set prices same as top players to earn as much as possible? As i said before, current system supports price diferences, AHs are killing trading and contact with other players. Why would you remember some good crafters names if u can buy all the stuff in AH from anonymus guy like u would do on ebay...Dont kill that small social life that we have in this game now.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »
But it isn't very difficult to control/lock down the best kiosks. Which is happening.
How ? Facts, evidence and explanations please.
1 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Global AH tend to lead to D3 kind of behaviour. Griefers/lazy people buy from AH and put it back there but with higher price.
Im liking ESO system. Wish every single vendor could be replaced by this system. That would make epic game!2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unless someone actually has some kind of evidence of this cartel and market control by super elite guilds can we knock that argument off please. None of the current guilds holding Craglorn merchants were the ones around months ago, trade guilds rise and fall as new competition becomes successful and organised.
If smaller guild want to become competitive and hold a Craglorn merchant they need to start working towards that goal, that's how the current guilds got there. Make sure members are selling items in demand, make sure they're selling high value items via the store, get a large member base who trade and remove those who don't.
If your guild is 50 people selling iron ingots, grapes and carrots then you're not going to get the income needed for a Craglorn merchant. If you're a 500 person trade guild selling gold tempers, VR14 PVP/PVE gear in demand then you'll start making the money to buy your way up the merchants.
From my understanding of the arguments for and against so far it's the following below, by all means feel free to give me more to add.
Global AH Pros
Everyone has the same access regardless of guilds.
Ease of access for finding items without travel.
Prices find a stable area globally rather than each guilds market.
Less need for WTS/WTB in zone chats.
Global AH Cons
Removes need for trade guilds.
Removes gold sink currently taking millions from the game.
Easier manipulation/exploitation by gold sellers.
Makes the trading section of the game harder.
Removes need for Cyrdodiil keep ownership.
Outlining Issues
Games UI doesn't help players.
Small guilds feel they can't be competitive.
It seems that those wanting a change are more willing to come to this thread and just throw insults and names at those defending the system rather than make structures posts explaining how and why a global AH would benefit the game.
If you're looking for a global AH to be added to the game remember that you need to convince ZOS, not those defending the system. Acting immature, insulting community members and throwing baseless actuations isn't going to convince ZOS that there is an advantage to a global AH.
Right now ZOS is happy with their system, so make posts with arguments from both sides to explain why the system is superior and will help the entire game and it's population.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."5 -
Dixa✭✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »Exactly. No AH means it's that much harder for gold sellers to do business. Lets not assume that the rodents won't ever come back so we're free to cover the house in garbage again, m'kay.
Except there was no auction house to begin with, and yet on launch day(early access launch) the game was literally swarming with bots/gold spammers.
Auction houses are not the cause of gold spammers. Next fallacy.
Terrible counter-argument. Those gold sellers were using a known dupe to amass then sell large quantities of purple and yellow crafting upgrade mats which was very lucrative for them and the other dupers.
They will spam a new mmorpg at launch regardless if it even has any trading at all.
An auction house is also not a good option for mega servers. See: guild wars 2, where almost nothing has any actual value except precursors.0 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭Unless someone actually has some kind of evidence of this cartel and market control by super elite guilds can we knock that argument off please. None of the current guilds holding Craglorn merchants were the ones around months ago, trade guilds rise and fall as new competition becomes successful and organised.
If smaller guild want to become competitive and hold a Craglorn merchant they need to start working towards that goal, that's how the current guilds got there. Make sure members are selling items in demand, make sure they're selling high value items via the store, get a large member base who trade and remove those who don't.
If your guild is 50 people selling iron ingots, grapes and carrots then you're not going to get the income needed for a Craglorn merchant. If you're a 500 person trade guild selling gold tempers, VR14 PVP/PVE gear in demand then you'll start making the money to buy your way up the merchants.
From my understanding of the arguments for and against so far it's the following below, by all means feel free to give me more to add.
Global AH Pros
Everyone has the same access regardless of guilds.
Ease of access for finding items without travel.
Prices find a stable area globally rather than each guilds market.
Less need for WTS/WTB in zone chats.
Global AH Cons
Removes need for trade guilds.
Removes gold sink currently taking millions from the game.
Easier manipulation/exploitation by gold sellers.
Makes the trading section of the game harder.
Removes need for Cyrdodiil keep ownership.
Outlining Issues
Games UI doesn't help players.
Small guilds feel they can't be competitive.
It seems that those wanting a change are more willing to come to this thread and just throw insults and names at those defending the system rather than make structures posts explaining how and why a global AH would benefit the game.
If you're looking for a global AH to be added to the game remember that you need to convince ZOS, not those defending the system. Acting immature, insulting community members and throwing baseless actuations isn't going to convince ZOS that there is an advantage to a global AH.
Right now ZOS is happy with their system, so make posts with arguments from both sides to explain why the system is superior and will help the entire game and it's population.
I think the cons are also pros as well but that was a really good read thanks mate.
I really hate been in guilds even the idea of it drives me nuts.2 -
Bodycounter✭✭✭✭The current system is good and i don't want a global auction house. There are too many reason, that i am too lazy to list them, but smart people can think of some.
Play WoW if you guys don't want any interaction and gold selling websites. Every second complain is about something, that WoW has, but Eso doesn't need.2 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
If you don't "play the trading game" you cannot sell your goods ? Well too bad, but if I don't play PVP I don't get PVP gear either, you cannot have it all.
That is a very good point.
I've heard a bunch of pseudo-statistics about 'most of the people' and such, but no real dataTenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
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House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭I am a proponent of a global AH. I never buy anything from guild traders because frankly, you can't find a thing the way it's set up, the search is ridiculous and when you do find what you want, the prices are terrible. That's what happens when only a few people can actually sell stuff.0
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Jaxsun✭✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »Exactly. No AH means it's that much harder for gold sellers to do business. Lets not assume that the rodents won't ever come back so we're free to cover the house in garbage again, m'kay.
Except there was no auction house to begin with, and yet on launch day(early access launch) the game was literally swarming with bots/gold spammers.
Auction houses are not the cause of gold spammers. Next fallacy.
This!0 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭Can't exploit players if everyone can see competitors' pricing.House Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire4 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭Lots of items will lose its value.
Pretty much 95% of items will be bare minimum price and people will only buy dps gear and such and armor with more armor value and such.
All those reduce sprinting will be garbage, bunch others will be garbage too. They somewhat decent due to fact of not being able to get the best gear easily.
Crap gear is still crap, an AH would make it cost what it should not the extorted prices we pay now.0
This discussion has been closed.