Why is everybody against an auction house?

Heromofo

This /\ or a trade hall in each main city for that side and players pay money to unlock slots
|

Cuyler

nastuug wrote: »

I never mentioned any type of conspiracy whereby all elitist trading guilds are working together.

Hmm. Reaallly?

nastuug wrote: »

So I guess the ability for humans to browse and purchase goods over the Internet from all parts of the world is inferior to a handful of markets run by the equivalent of drug cartels?

You know damn well it's developed into a small few who have the prime merchants on lockdown.

Actually it's the elitist trading guilds that don't want competition. Zero competition means 100% market control.

Very good. Please tell your buddies. Enjoy your cartels while they last.

We have a small cartel of overly wealthy guilds controlling the market right now.

A good LOL in the morning is always welcome

You certainly imply that the are working together. It would be the only way for them to "control the market" as you say.

Truth is the buyers control the market. Why?

Almost everyone uses master merchant (except you apparently) which quickly tells you the avg. prices so you literally can't get ripped off. Need I remind you these prices are based off of actual sales, from actual real buyers as compared to the hypothetical buyers you claim to want the AH because they're getting ripped off.

nastuug

Cuyler wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

I never mentioned any type of conspiracy whereby all elitist trading guilds are working together.

Hmm. Reaallly?

nastuug wrote: »

So I guess the ability for humans to browse and purchase goods over the Internet from all parts of the world is inferior to a handful of markets run by the equivalent of drug cartels?

You know damn well it's developed into a small few who have the prime merchants on lockdown.

Actually it's the elitist trading guilds that don't want competition. Zero competition means 100% market control.

Very good. Please tell your buddies. Enjoy your cartels while they last.

We have a small cartel of overly wealthy guilds controlling the market right now.

A good LOL in the morning is always welcome

You certainly imply that the are working together. It would be the only way for them to "control the market" as you say.

Truth is the buyers control the market. Why?

Almost everyone uses master merchant (except you apparently) which quickly tells you the avg. prices so you literally can't get ripped off. Need I remind you these prices are based off of actual sales, from actual real buyers as compared to the hypothetical buyers you claim to want the AH because they're getting ripped off.

You don't need to work together to control the market. [snip] If 10 of 1000 guilds have all the money, then 10 of 1000 guilds control the market by locking merchants down. Seriously, don't be that thick.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Alphashado

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

Amen.

Sadly though, these truthful words will fall on mostly deaf ears. Many people that dislike the kiosk system choose to ignore facts like these. I guess it's easier for them to just grab a pitchfork.

There are so many flat out untrue accusations aimed at those of us that enjoy the system that I no longer even have the energy to properly explain things like you did.

I used to. I used to write up long, detailed posts like this attempting to end the mob mentality, but it seems to have zero effect so I no longer put that much effort into it. People find it much easier to hate that which they don't understand rather than listen to the truth.

ZoS understands though. Thankfully.

nastuug

Alphashado wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

Amen.

Sadly though, these truthful words will fall on mostly deaf ears. Many people that dislike the kiosk system choose to ignore facts like these. I guess it's easier for them to just grab a pitchfork.

There are so many flat out untrue accusations aimed at those of us that enjoy the system that I no longer even have the energy to properly explain things like you did.

I used to. I used to write up long, detailed posts like this attempting to end the mob mentality, but it seems to have zero effect so I no longer put that much effort into it. People find it much easier to hate that which they don't understand rather than listen to the truth.

ZoS understands though. Thankfully.

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

Alphashado

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

Amen.

Sadly though, these truthful words will fall on mostly deaf ears. Many people that dislike the kiosk system choose to ignore facts like these. I guess it's easier for them to just grab a pitchfork.

There are so many flat out untrue accusations aimed at those of us that enjoy the system that I no longer even have the energy to properly explain things like you did.

I used to. I used to write up long, detailed posts like this attempting to end the mob mentality, but it seems to have zero effect so I no longer put that much effort into it. People find it much easier to hate that which they don't understand rather than listen to the truth.

ZoS understands though. Thankfully.

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

You do realize that guild sales tax revenue seldom generates enough gold to pay for the kiosk right? This is why many guilds (yes even the best ones) are forced to rely on donations, raffles, prizes, stern sales requirements, and inactive policies. Not to mention GMs are actually having to use their own money or accept donations from their officers in order to pay for the locations they hold.

But the mob doesn't want to hear things like this because it ruins their witch hunt.

Heromofo

Alphashado wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

Amen.

Sadly though, these truthful words will fall on mostly deaf ears. Many people that dislike the kiosk system choose to ignore facts like these. I guess it's easier for them to just grab a pitchfork.

There are so many flat out untrue accusations aimed at those of us that enjoy the system that I no longer even have the energy to properly explain things like you did.

I used to. I used to write up long, detailed posts like this attempting to end the mob mentality, but it seems to have zero effect so I no longer put that much effort into it. People find it much easier to hate that which they don't understand rather than listen to the truth.

ZoS understands though. Thankfully.

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

You do realize that guild sales tax revenue seldom generates enough gold to pay for the kiosk right? This is why many guilds (yes even the best ones) are forced to rely on donations, raffles, prizes, stern sales requirements, and inactive policies. Not to mention GMs are actually having to use their own money or accept donations from their officers in order to pay for the locations they hold.

But the mob doesn't want to hear things like this because it ruins their witch hunt.

Heromofo "What are you smoking?"
Alphashado " What do you think?"
Heromofo " Can i have some?"
Alphashado " Yeah why not......."

*Inhales*

Heromofo "Tight no wonder you cant see straight"
Alphashado " Your an idiot...."







Heromofo " got any cheetos?"

nastuug

Alphashado wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

Amen.

Sadly though, these truthful words will fall on mostly deaf ears. Many people that dislike the kiosk system choose to ignore facts like these. I guess it's easier for them to just grab a pitchfork.

There are so many flat out untrue accusations aimed at those of us that enjoy the system that I no longer even have the energy to properly explain things like you did.

I used to. I used to write up long, detailed posts like this attempting to end the mob mentality, but it seems to have zero effect so I no longer put that much effort into it. People find it much easier to hate that which they don't understand rather than listen to the truth.

ZoS understands though. Thankfully.

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

You do realize that guild sales tax revenue seldom generates enough gold to pay for the kiosk right? This is why many guilds (yes even the best ones) are forced to rely on donations, raffles, prizes, stern sales requirements, and inactive policies. Not to mention GMs are actually having to use their own money or accept donations from their officers in order to pay for the locations they hold.

But the mob doesn't want to hear things like this because it ruins their witch hunt.

Actually I do realize that. Doesn't change the fact that merchant locations are on lockdown.

And boohoo, corporations are people too, eh? Give it a rest already.

edit: Actually wait, you're defending the position of GMs having to use their own money and/or force officers to comply with "Guild Association" fee in order to keep those locations? Hell that's even more proof that they are keeping locations on lockdown.

Turelus

@nastuug could you please make a clear and constructive post about how a global auction house would prove beneficial to both the player community and the game?

If you could outline the pros and cons of each system, add some thoughts on how issues which might unfold could be overcome.

Then we might be able to see what you problems with the current system are. Right now your posts seem more like you're upset others are more successful than you are, that corporations are evil, drug cartels play ESO.

You have spent more time insulting members of the community and making baseless accusations in this thread than actually helping players who want a global auction house post a relevant argument. As I posted earlier, we're not the ones you need to convince, ZOS are. How are you posts achieving that, or are you in this thread just to argue the same points over and over without giving any facts or evidence for your theories.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

idk

nastuug wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

The only flaw I see is to guild stores, but they could all be what makes up the auction house.
Instead of a general auction house, like most games, it could be made out of guild stores and work so that you would be buying just like you bought from that guild. It would also decrease, but not eliminate, the need for a vendor.

It wouldn't hurt the social aspect either. How would it be any different than running around to the various guild stores like we already do? It wouldn't. It would be more convenient for sellers (guilds only) and buyers.

Your ideas would bring about the same old boring vanilla AH found in other games. I have no idea why someone starts playing a new game but wants it to be like their old game. I guess it's so they can reuse the same complaints they had of the old game.

There are plenty of other ways ESO sets itself apart from the typical, modern MMORPG...

Yes, and this is one of them. Kudos to ESO and thx for pointing out the uniqueness. It's fabulous.

idk

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

However often have better reasons than "I CBA to move around the world".

The minority are the only ones who support the current market system. They only do so because once the doors are blown open, they will be forced to compete with every single player, regardless of guild association.

You make an assumption as to who the minority is.

Alphashado

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I am the leader of Elder Scrolls Exchange and also a member of Direnni Dynasty, the informal group of GMs who work together to keep communication lines open between guilds as well as working to better the game. Most GMs simply want to run the best guild for their members, and keeping in touch with other GMs and trading ideas helps. Check our latest thread for a list of ways we are trying to get guilds improved to better player's experiences: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163928/guild-improvements-master-list#latest

Has anyone even thought about how crazy the price-fixing theories are?? Do you really think that GMs sit around and tell their members what to sell each item for? The amount of time required to do that would be beyond what's possible even for someone with no job. I wonder if the players yelling about "Price Fixing" have even gone and looked in the kiosks and seen how CHEAP most common items are posted for, especially in Rawl where there is the most competition.

The truth is that the guilds in Rawl's biggest struggle is keeping members from out-competing each other and driving prices so low that sellers can't get a fair value for items and are forced to go sell in zone or other guilds. Since they have the most sellers in Rawl, all trying to move their goods, sellers are constantly marking items lower than the next guy. This leaves sellers finding that an item priced to move yesterday has a bunch of lower listings and they have to wait and hope, or pull the item losing their listing fee. This becomes even more common the larger the guild, and would be the standard for auction houses. W don't price fix, but we do educate and recommend that members courteous to others by matching fair prices rather than undercutting by just a few gold (if you want to sell for a lower price, drop your price by 50g, not by 2g). And to offer bulk discounts on larger stacks rather than posting dozens of small stacks below market value, again a way to offer better choices to both the other sellers and the buyers. We put a lot of effort into educating members about the game economy so that we can have the best stall with the best selection AND the most competitive prices.

I've played other games with global auction houses and the market is completely dominated by a few large megasellers who control and fix the prices. They are able to buy out all competition and then set prices up because there's a single store. In Neopets, just for fun, one year I was able to buy every single turkey themed item in the global auction house a month before Thanksgiving, and then continue buying them up til the holiday. I resold them for 50 times the former prices. All it takes is one player with too much gold who can toy with the economy for fun, forcing players who just a turkey to pay way too much. With guilds the mega sellers have a harder time controlling that economy and players have a choice.... sell in a large guild with high volume, or sell in a smaller guild where you'll tend to get more gold for your items.

Although I hate the current kiosk bidding system, I love the individual guilds that makes the economy more diverse and forces players to actually work together to keep a good kiosk and also allows smaller sellers a fair chance to participate in the economy.

Amen.

Sadly though, these truthful words will fall on mostly deaf ears. Many people that dislike the kiosk system choose to ignore facts like these. I guess it's easier for them to just grab a pitchfork.

There are so many flat out untrue accusations aimed at those of us that enjoy the system that I no longer even have the energy to properly explain things like you did.

I used to. I used to write up long, detailed posts like this attempting to end the mob mentality, but it seems to have zero effect so I no longer put that much effort into it. People find it much easier to hate that which they don't understand rather than listen to the truth.

ZoS understands though. Thankfully.

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

You do realize that guild sales tax revenue seldom generates enough gold to pay for the kiosk right? This is why many guilds (yes even the best ones) are forced to rely on donations, raffles, prizes, stern sales requirements, and inactive policies. Not to mention GMs are actually having to use their own money or accept donations from their officers in order to pay for the locations they hold.

But the mob doesn't want to hear things like this because it ruins their witch hunt.

Actually I do realize that. Doesn't change the fact that merchant locations are on lockdown.

And boohoo, corporations are people too, eh? Give it a rest already.

edit: Actually wait, you're defending the position of GMs having to use their own money and/or force officers to comply with "Guild Association" fee in order to keep those locations? Hell that's even more proof that they are keeping locations on lockdown.

Corporations? Viewing trade guilds in a video game as corporations must make it even easier to hate them. Why not create a watch dog company and write a formal complaint to the better business borough while you are at it.

What you and everyone else on this witch hunt either can't understand or refuse to understand is that Individuals are much more wealthy than trade guilds. You and 3 or 4 friends can easily go out and make enough money to get a kiosk in a prime location if you set your mind to it. But you don't want to hear that either do you. It's soo easy to hate "the man" isn't it?

Well this isn't Washington, these aren't politicians, and Wayrest isn't Wall Street.

Grab a few friends, go make some gold, and buy your own kiosk. If you think such a thing is impossible, then you are sadly mistaken. Enough with this Evil Corporation nonsense.

nastuug

Turelus wrote: »

@nastuug could you please make a clear and constructive post about how a global auction house would prove beneficial to both the player community and the game?

If you could outline the pros and cons of each system, add some thoughts on how issues which might unfold could be overcome.

Then we might be able to see what you problems with the current system are. Right now your posts seem more like you're upset others are more successful than you are, that corporations are evil, drug cartels play ESO.

You have spent more time insulting members of the community and making baseless accusations in this thread than actually helping players who want a global auction house post a relevant argument. As I posted earlier, we're not the ones you need to convince, ZOS are. How are you posts achieving that, or are you in this thread just to argue the same points over and over without giving any facts or evidence for your theories.

@Turelus Oh boy, you totally went there. Well, I've gone through more than enough constructive threads that have been created detailing how a global auction house could help enhance current trading process for the majority of users.

I'm not upset that others are more successful. Perhaps if you read all my posts, you would know that I'm part of a trading guild and sell my pixel junk every day. Sure, my bank isn't filled with billions of gold, but I do alright. Yes, I'm directly comparing them to evil corporations and drug cartels. Forcing members to pay a "Guild Membership fee" on top of taxes, even dropping way more than needed gold from their own personal account just to lock prime merchant locations down. Hmm, sounds like the typical evil corporation we have all come to know and love...

I have not directly insulted members of the community. I've never mentioned a single person or guild name in my "accusations," so cross that load of crap off your list.

I'm not trolling; I'm fighting the derps defending an antiquated trading system that hinders the majority of players from partaking in what should be an easy-to-use economy/trading system.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Heromofo

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

However often have better reasons than "I CBA to move around the world".

The minority are the only ones who support the current market system. They only do so because once the doors are blown open, they will be forced to compete with every single player, regardless of guild association.

You make an assumption as to who the minority is.

Half of this thread wants it to stay and the rest want a change.

I think we should just get together and come to a solution.



Muhuhuhuhuh

Sylvyr

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I remind you that you don't HAVE to trade at all.

Issues in Cyrodiil? Stop complaining. You don't have to PvP at all.

Heromofo

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@nastuug could you please make a clear and constructive post about how a global auction house would prove beneficial to both the player community and the game?

If you could outline the pros and cons of each system, add some thoughts on how issues which might unfold could be overcome.

Then we might be able to see what you problems with the current system are. Right now your posts seem more like you're upset others are more successful than you are, that corporations are evil, drug cartels play ESO.

You have spent more time insulting members of the community and making baseless accusations in this thread than actually helping players who want a global auction house post a relevant argument. As I posted earlier, we're not the ones you need to convince, ZOS are. How are you posts achieving that, or are you in this thread just to troll people and argue the same points over and over without giving any facts or evidence for your theories.

@Turelus Oh boy, you totally went there. Well, I've gone through more than enough constructive threads that have been created detailing how a global auction house could help enhance current trading process for the majority of users.

I'm not upset that others are more successful. Perhaps if you read all my posts, you would know that I'm part of a trading guild and sell my pixel junk every day. Sure, my bank isn't filled with billions of gold, but I do alright. Yes, I'm directly comparing them to evil corporations and drug cartels. Forcing members to pay a "Guild Membership fee" on top of taxes, even dropping way more than needed gold from their own personal account just to lock prime merchant locations down. Hmm, sounds like the typical evil corporation we have all come to know and love...

I have not directly insulted members of the community. I've never mentioned a single person or guild name in my "accusations," so cross that load of crap off your list.

I'm not trolling; I'm fighting the derps defending an antiquated trading system that hinders the majority of players from partaking in what should be an easy-to-use economy/trading system.

And he is not alone fighting the derps is a way of life.

Sylvyr

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm not against it if other changes occur but here is what makes better sense

IF the guild stores were linked by faction, globally
*still requires a guild to use an AH

I'm against any AH outside of a guild as it will offset the value of guilds

This is a completely legitimate point, and I agree.
My problem is not that you need a guild to buy/ sell. It's that you need to roam the entire map, browsing through stores in a less than favorable UI, and you may not find what you're looking for.

This, IMO, is beneficial to nobody.

But it's an adventure!

Urbanski101

Hi,

I've just got the game and loving it but I was surprised to find out there was no auction house in the game.

I like the crafting and resource gathering but do I really have to join a trade guild to sell my stuff?

From reading a few posts on the topic it seems to be a bone on contention within the player base. I'm still a low lvl toon and trying to work out the mechanics but joining a guild just to sell my stuff seems very odd - I don't particularly want to join a guild right now but I'd like to sell some of the resources I've gathered, maybe buy a couple of nice low lvl items.

Wandering around the hub areas spamming in local is just not an option, I bought the game to have fun not to become a street peddler & annoy people.

So for a non idustrialist / merchant who just wants to buy and sell a few items what am I supposed to do outside of the npc stores??

Alphashado

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@nastuug could you please make a clear and constructive post about how a global auction house would prove beneficial to both the player community and the game?

If you could outline the pros and cons of each system, add some thoughts on how issues which might unfold could be overcome.

Then we might be able to see what you problems with the current system are. Right now your posts seem more like you're upset others are more successful than you are, that corporations are evil, drug cartels play ESO.

You have spent more time insulting members of the community and making baseless accusations in this thread than actually helping players who want a global auction house post a relevant argument. As I posted earlier, we're not the ones you need to convince, ZOS are. How are you posts achieving that, or are you in this thread just to troll people and argue the same points over and over without giving any facts or evidence for your theories.

@Turelus Oh boy, you totally went there. Well, I've gone through more than enough constructive threads that have been created detailing how a global auction house could help enhance current trading process for the majority of users.

I'm not upset that others are more successful. Perhaps if you read all my posts, you would know that I'm part of a trading guild and sell my pixel junk every day. Sure, my bank isn't filled with billions of gold, but I do alright. Yes, I'm directly comparing them to evil corporations and drug cartels. Forcing members to pay a "Guild Membership fee" on top of taxes, even dropping way more than needed gold from their own personal account just to lock prime merchant locations down. Hmm, sounds like the typical evil corporation we have all come to know and love...

I have not directly insulted members of the community. I've never mentioned a single person or guild name in my "accusations," so cross that load of crap off your list.

I'm not trolling; I'm fighting the derps defending an antiquated trading system that hinders the majority of players from partaking in what should be an easy-to-use economy/trading system.

So you think it's ok for a GM and officers to pay out of their own pocket to retain a kiosk location, but asking members to pay a fee in order to retain these locations all of a sudden converts the scenario from justice to preying on innocent guild members? Doesn't everyone in the guild have access to the same store at the same location? Doesn't everyone in the guild have the exact same opportunity to make gold as the GM and officers? So what you are saying is that the GM and officers should be the only ones to pay out of their pocket just so the rest of the guild can take advantage of their kindness? Why do you wrongly presume that trading guild GM/Officers have more gold than average joe on their roster?

Turelus

@Urbanski101 there are many guilds you could join and sell stuff without even needing to speak to the member base.

Find a large guild which isn't pushing for a number one position and request to join, once you're in the guild you can turn off all their chats via your chat filters.
Then any time you visit a banking NPC you can sell/buy via the guild store for that guild (or others you're a member of) without any social interaction or heavy requirements of being in a guild. If you're able to find a guild which also bids on outlining merchants and you keep your prices around or just below the averages currently established in the game (these can be found via add-ons or visiting Craglorn merchants) you will even have players coming to buy from you for a better deal than the main trade hubs.

anitajoneb17_ESO

nastuug wrote: »

You don't need to work together to control the market, dingus. If 10 of 1000 guilds have all the money, then 10 of 1000 guilds control the market by locking merchants down. Seriously, don't be that thick.

nastuug wrote: »

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

I could quote many others of the same kind. You can repeat it over and over again, it is FALSE.

Proof : there are still unbid kiosks every week. How do you explain that, please ?

YES the major trading guilds require monthly "donations" from their members to cover the costs of the kiosks, but nobody is forcing anyone, those who don't want to can leave the guild. Why do we accept it ? Because it's a fair deal, my friend ! Profit with kiosk minus donation is far above profit without kiosk.Everybody wins. Other guilds are less united / less organized and cannot do it yet ? so what ? They can do the same and outbid us (which happened recently... yes, I argue with FACTS here). Are you blaming the "rich" for reinvesting their money to make more ? Making money in the game is the same kind of fun achievement as collecting trophies, achieving leaderboard scores ar conquering forts and AP in PvP. You seem to be blaming people for playing the game.

We're not "locking prime merchant locations", we're hiring traders. And we pay the price to have the best traders. Anything wrong with that ?

And by the way, average fashion shop cannot get a shop on the Champs-Elysées, only Vuitton will, BUT that does not prevent millions of average fashion shops to make a good living everywhere else.

nastuug wrote: »

I have not directly insulted members of the community. I've never mentioned a single person or guild name in my "accusations," so cross that load of crap off your list.

load of crap ? sounds very much like an insult to me...

Cuyler

nastuug wrote: »

I have not directly insulted members of the community.

nastuug wrote: »

You don't need to work together to control the market, dingus.

I could care less, but yes, insulting....

nastuug wrote: »

I'm not trolling; I'm fighting the derps defending an antiquated trading system that hinders the majority of players from partaking in what should be an easy-to-use economy/trading system.

Funny how the kiosk system is new yet you call it antiquated. The Global AH is an antiquated idea but that doesn't support your view so you avoid representing these mechanics for what they are. Global AH = Old news.

Victus

@Urbanski101 What server do you play on? Thankfully trading guilds shouldn't rely too much on faction in order to sell wares. I'm sure there are people on here that wouldn't mind giving you an invite so you can put some stuff up for sale.

nastuug

Alphashado wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@nastuug could you please make a clear and constructive post about how a global auction house would prove beneficial to both the player community and the game?

If you could outline the pros and cons of each system, add some thoughts on how issues which might unfold could be overcome.

Then we might be able to see what you problems with the current system are. Right now your posts seem more like you're upset others are more successful than you are, that corporations are evil, drug cartels play ESO.

You have spent more time insulting members of the community and making baseless accusations in this thread than actually helping players who want a global auction house post a relevant argument. As I posted earlier, we're not the ones you need to convince, ZOS are. How are you posts achieving that, or are you in this thread just to troll people and argue the same points over and over without giving any facts or evidence for your theories.

@Turelus Oh boy, you totally went there. Well, I've gone through more than enough constructive threads that have been created detailing how a global auction house could help enhance current trading process for the majority of users.

I'm not upset that others are more successful. Perhaps if you read all my posts, you would know that I'm part of a trading guild and sell my pixel junk every day. Sure, my bank isn't filled with billions of gold, but I do alright. Yes, I'm directly comparing them to evil corporations and drug cartels. Forcing members to pay a "Guild Membership fee" on top of taxes, even dropping way more than needed gold from their own personal account just to lock prime merchant locations down. Hmm, sounds like the typical evil corporation we have all come to know and love...

I have not directly insulted members of the community. I've never mentioned a single person or guild name in my "accusations," so cross that load of crap off your list.

I'm not trolling; I'm fighting the derps defending an antiquated trading system that hinders the majority of players from partaking in what should be an easy-to-use economy/trading system.

So you think it's ok for a GM and officers to pay out of their own pocket to retain a kiosk location, but asking members to pay a fee in order to retain these locations all of a sudden converts the scenario from justice to preying on innocent guild members? Doesn't everyone in the guild have access to the same store at the same location? Doesn't everyone in the guild have the exact same opportunity to make gold as the GM and officers? So what you are saying is that the GM and officers should be the only ones to pay out of their pocket just so the rest of the guild can take advantage of their kindness? Why do you wrongly presume that trading guild GM/Officers have more gold than average joe on their roster?

You arguments do not make any sense. As someone above mentioned, it appears as though you simply have some kind of issue with any kind of structured environment or that which you don't understand.

Just like a witch hunt.

• Can't search Guild Traders without third party addon support
• Must travel to many different NPC's to hunt for specific pixel junk
• Inability to sell anything unless you're part of a large trading guild
• Inability for small-to-medium guilds to compete to sell the same exact pixel junk

Yep, total witch hunt...

Jaxsun

Alphashado wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Lots of items will lose its value.

Pretty much 95% of items will be bare minimum price and people will only buy dps gear and such and armor with more armor value and such.

All those reduce sprinting will be garbage, bunch others will be garbage too. They somewhat decent due to fact of not being able to get the best gear easily.

Crap gear is still crap, an AH would make it cost what it should not the extorted prices we pay now.

If you think for one second that rare items would not be ridiculously expensive with a global system, you are sorely mistaken. It's everything in between that loses it's value with a global system, while rare items are still very expensive. They are expensive because they are rare. And while there would be more listings, the ease at which people could buy them would increase demand right along with supply. So the supply/demand ratio would remain the same.

Go to Diablo 3 or Guild Wars 2 and look at the prices of rare items if you don't believe me. Both games use a global system.

"I demand instant access to every item in the game, and I don't want to pay for it". That's what I keep reading here.

SWG had a global auction, personal vendors that were searchable from any terminal server wide and a trade forum, that economy was the best I've seen. It didn't destroy that game....

I could be wrong, but I don't believe SWG was on a Megaserver. This is where many people are getting confused. There is a huge difference between a Megaserver and games that are broken up into individual servers. The markets in these games like WoW, Rift, Swtor, etc are all broken down into smaller isolated economies. A Megaserver AH (global) means that every single person playing the game will be using the exact same auction house. We are talking about millions of people vs 30,000 or so you might see on a heavily populated individual server in games like in WoW.

For those that truly understand what a global system is (GW2) and you still want one, then I can respect your opinion in this debate even though I disagree with it.

For the vast majority of people that continue using games like WoW or Rift or Swtor or Lotro as an example of how an auction house effects or doesn't effect a game, please do some research or go play GW2 then get back to us. Because unless you see it for yourself, you truly have no idea what you are talking about in relation to how an auction house would effect ESO. And I don't mean that to be disrespectful.

Having constant access to 29999 consumers still makes better pricing and economy than 499...

Jaxsun

Elloa wrote: »

Auction House is never going to happen
- Jeason Leavey, ESOLive Ep15

They also said they were tracking our XP....

nastuug

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

You don't need to work together to control the market, dingus. If 10 of 1000 guilds have all the money, then 10 of 1000 guilds control the market by locking merchants down. Seriously, don't be that thick.

nastuug wrote: »

Read it all. I could've have pulled the TLDR card, but I didn't. And even though he's as truthful as he/she can be, and @ElfFromSpace is failing to see the major point. Elitist trading guilds that covet trading as actual game content are locking prime merchant locations down, effectively smothering competition with cold hard cash (gold, w/e).

I could quote many others of the same kind. You can repeat it over and over again, it is FALSE.

Proof : there are still unbid kiosks every week. How do you explain that, please ?

YES the major trading guilds require monthly "donations" from their members to cover the costs of the kiosks, but nobody is forcing anyone, those who don't want to can leave the guild. Why do we accept it ? Because it's a fair deal, my friend ! Profit with kiosk minus donation is far above profit without kiosk.Everybody wins. Other guilds are less united / less organized and cannot do it yet ? so what ? They can do the same and outbid us (which happened recently... yes, I argue with FACTS here). Are you blaming the "rich" for reinvesting their money to make more ? Making money in the game is the same kind of fun achievement as collecting trophies, achieving leaderboard scores ar conquering forts and AP in PvP. You seem to be blaming people for playing the game.

We're not "locking prime merchant locations", we're hiring traders. And we pay the price to have the best traders. Anything wrong with that ?

And by the way, average fashion shop cannot get a shop on the Champs-Elysées, only Vuitton will, BUT that does not prevent millions of average fashion shops to make a good living everywhere else.

nastuug wrote: »

I have not directly insulted members of the community. I've never mentioned a single person or guild name in my "accusations," so cross that load of crap off your list.

load of crap ? sounds very much like an insult to me...

Yes, elitist trading guilds are locking down prime merchant locations, which are already extremely limited compared to the number of guilds/players on the megaserver.

You call my claims "accusations," and I call your accusations a "load of crap." You really see a difference there?

anitajoneb17_ESO

nastuug wrote: »

Yes, elitist trading guilds are locking down prime merchant locations, which are already extremely limited compared to the number of guilds/players on the megaserver.

You call my claims "accusations," and I call your accusations a "load of crap." You really see a difference there?

1 - I repeat ... if according to you there are too few kiosks to cater for the entire game population, HOW do you explain that several kiosks remain unbid for every week ?
(Hint : it just means that there's enough trading space for everybody in the current system and noone willing to participate is locked out of it)

2 - Yes, "accusations" (however FALSE) is what you have been writing, and it's not an insult. "Load of crap" is.
(I won't copy/paste dictionary here, I guess ...)

RazzPitazz

How many kiosks are available to bid on each week?

driosketch

Razzak wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the history of kiosk owners. If certain kiosks were owned by only few guilds in the past, it's a clear indication something is wrong and those that say this current system promotes elitism, are correct.
Would anyone object to such information becoming public?

How would zone centered AH or kiosk hurt the economy?

How would guilds with 5000 instead of 500 members hurt the economy?

Someone has been kind enough to start tracking all the kiosks on NA for the last 7 weeks.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/164068/guild-trader-information-na-server/p1

(Please don't start arguments in that thread. Keep the discussion here. That thread is solely for information purposes, and unless you want to do the work yourself, I'd rather not scare this generous individual off.)

At first glance it's clear that each week most or all of the clusters see at least one new guild. Craglorn's cluster has seen 13-14 guilds in the past 7 weeks. While half of them have remained with the same owner, that's not really enough to lock the cluster down, especially not with the high turn over on the seventh kiosk.