Why is everybody against an auction house?

MercyKilling · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sooo, you just don't like the economic system because it is different, and you are not interested in socializing online at all in games?

The first of a false premise. Why do the supporters of the current system always throw out the “you’re antisocial” argument to those people who don’t want to join guilds? Because personally, I just don’t want to be forced into a guild just to trade. It’s asinine and antiquated. It’s also the exact opposite of free trade.
I used to open world RP a ton. I’m a very social person in online games. I like to “get into the game”. Forcing me to join a guild to be able to effectively sell anything is wrong.

Cuyler wrote: »

I object in a Global AH specifically due to it creating no competition and simply hyperdeflating everything that touches it (players immediately undercut the previous million postings),

People are hyperinflating prices now. Take a look at this thread:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169093/post-your-best-guild-store-deals-you-have-bought-to-flip-or-keep
This is supposed to be competition? Undercutting just means someone who is already in a guild gets to flip the item.

Glurin wrote: »

Oh yes, we need a global AH just like every other MMO out there. That way we can have all the things they have as well!
One or two gold sellers controlling the entire economy.

When was the last time you saw a gold seller advertisement in zone chat, anywhere? I actually went back to Deshaan the other day, and zone chat was….blissful compared to the early days. I saw absolutely no spam messages. It was glorious.
Your presumption that adding an auction house will magically make something that’s been absent from the game for months re-appear is flawed, my young padwan.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

When you're on a mega server, with millions of ppl in a Global AH, items meant to be rare (by developer choice) no longer are rare and become hyperdeflated. What is so hard to grasp?

There was this other game that I played a long time ago….an MMO that had an auction house. In it were the super-rare listed items and they went for hundreds of millions…even billions. An amount that one had to grind for years to ever reach. Then I went to another MMO that had an auction house…and guess what? Yup. Super-rare items for prices that it’d take forever to grind out. Tried a third MMO with an auction house…and yet again, I see the same thing. Super-rares for extreme prices.

What makes you think it’d be any different here?

No, it's as several other people have said. Those who support it do so because they really do not want everyone to be able to do the same things they do......sell things and make money. Unless of course you're doing it by THEIR rules. (I.E. in a guild)

timidobserver · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AHs are easier to exploit and automate.

Yeah, and a handful of vendors, placed in certain convenient locations, controlled by super elitist trading guilds aren't?

It may exist, but I haven't encountered anyone that has managed to automate controlling all of the guild traders. It would be relatively simply to make it happen if it were just one AH.

Perhaps I failed to exclude the automation portion of that. Point is, only the equivalent of drug cartels currently run the main trading vendor locations. They corner the market in an unfair by-design fashion. I'm not blaming them. I'd do the same in their position.

It needs to change. More players, on any platform release, needs a more simplistic and easy way to sell goods to the world.

It's just like the Internet. I can't ride a Guar or conjure fireballs from a staff, but I can damn sure sell the hell out of toothpick derpface models to the masses if I saw fit to.

The market will be cornered regardless of whether it has AHs or Traders. People will always inflate the prices of items that are high in demand and low in supply. The only question is how difficult it is to corner and how hard it is to inflate. It is significantly easier to corner in an AH system, and even automate it given the single interface requiring no travel time.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Point is, only the equivalent of drug cartels currently run the main trading vendor locations. They corner the market in an unfair by-design fashion. I'm not blaming them. I'd do the same in their position.

I can understand why some players woud prefer an AH and have valid arguments for it, but you definitely should STOP with this "super elitist guilds acting like drug cartels" because that is a a lie.

Drug cartels threaten people with their lives to force them to obey to whatever they want. They use physical force and financial force to corrupt the autorities. Big trade guilds don't threaten anyone with anything. They are just groups of players who get organized on a free will basis in order to win bids in good places. They use the money they have earned. And I don't see how any of us could corrupt ZOS employees with game money

We do not fix prices either nor impose them on anyone, either buyers or sellers. Thinking otherwise is close to conspiracy theory and paranoia and simply untrue.

I don't see anything mafia or cartel-like in this. NOR anything unfair. EVERYONE and every guild can join the playfield and compete on an absolutely FAIR basis and many contributors of this thread who belong to "smaller guilds that have grown bigger" testified about this.

Something else (not related to your post but I add it here to avoid a double post) : As much as I like the current system, I fail to see how a global auction house would lower the prices. It's the match between offer and demand that makes the prices, and if something does not sell for high prices it just means that it is very common in the game and people will farm it instead of buying it. Nirncrux would sell at high prices even in a global AH because they're so damn difficult to farm that less people would farm them if they were cheaper (and price would go up again because of scarcer supply). On the opposite side, a global AH would make it very easy for the very rich players to buy ALL lower-price supply and resell them for profit, thus efficiently making stuff more expensive. In the current system they have to run through all vendors to achieve this.

And I insist : trading (buying as well as selling) is entirely optional in the game. Everything and anything can be farmed.

Maddhawk · May 2015

If the devs do not like the idea of a server wide auction system, then use the EvE style of regional markets. The EvE system works like thus:

1) Enter the closest system for the regional market you wish to check
1b) I recommend docking up first for safety
2) open the market menu
3) browse goods
4) buy/sell desired goods if the regional prices are ok
5) travel to said market hub to pickup items if not in the same system

Now to apply the idea to ESO:

1) Travel to zone whose market you wish to check
2) Visit nearest NPC Guild Broker, could be something done via Fighters Guild as they tend to protect merchants more
3) Check listings and prices
4) Buy items if price is agreeable for what you desire, post items as you see fit
5) Travel to central trade hub for zone to or to appropriate town/village where item purchased was posted and collect item

Immersion Protection and Guild Merchant Protection

1) Restricting view of NPC Guild Merchants to zones means you have to travel about to do your trading, even if it is only fast traveling
2) Traveling to collect purchased goods in a zone reinforces the impression of a dynamic universe and community
3) NPC Guild Traders charge a fee to both post an item (based on vendor value, minimum 1 gold even on no value items) and assess a fee on a sale. IF AN ITEM SALES THE POST FEE IS REFUNDED AND ONLY THE SALE FEE IS ASSESSED!
4) Guild Traders have no associated fees for their guild members to post or on the sale. Funds stay within the player guild or enter the player guild undiluted

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Ketta wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Isn't the whole idea of an MMO to search out that which is rare? An Auction House takes that away. I also like being able to find bargains.

As far as not being able to find what I want, of the common items, that is not an issue with the current system. I can search 10 guild stores in a matter of a few minutes (5 Kiosks in a town and the 5 I am a member of) and find anything common I need. May not be for the best price, but that is for me to determine if it's worth looking for a bargain.

The only two issues with the current system is more guilds that want to be a part of it are locked out than area allowed in, and you have to be in a guild to sell in Kiosk (and a guild that gets a Kiosk). The first is easy to fix if they would just allow more than one Guild to get a Kiosk. Which would also take care of the other issue as more people could find a guild that has a kiosk to sell in.

Your last part is right alot of guilds and players like me who hate and i mean hate been forced into guilds are been locked out.
Because we dont have the millions to bid or for me been forced into guilds. In wow i was a lone wolf type played with mates but i would join their guild runs so i was always geared so i could lead pug runs if i wanted something. Also i really enjoyed playing the market and i was good back is BC days i was always loaded comming into wotlk people would spin out with my Harley. So i am really upset about this because ZOS went out of there way to avoid Ah .

Sooo, you just don't like the economic system because it is different, and you are not interested in socializing online at all in games? Join a trade house and don't talk, then . The trade system here is much deeper, and allows for arbitrage as I mentioned which you called "artificial rarity" (lol?), just one more aspect of trade to master. Zenimax didn't do anything to "avoid" an auction house that was global. They simply chose a different system that most other games have used in one form or another, and refined t a little. It's a better fit when there are millions of players on the same server as I mentioned, as well as having gameplay advantages .

They never said they didn't want to socialize. Like many others, including myself, they resist and are against being forced into doing something to have access to something that every single player should have access to: selling their goods through the market system. Also, they did detail their method of socializing in an MMO, and just because it's different than what you like doesn't mean it's wrong or bad.

By your "lol?" I gather you're unaware of the meaning of artificial rarity; it's an actual 'thing' in MMOs and understanding what causes it helps with understanding why player-driven markets can get so screwy.

ZoS has definitely gone a different route, and it's not all bad. But it DEFINITELY needs improvement. Right now, it's a seller's market. Sellers are making serious bank, and it's no surprise that the vocal ones out there don't want that to change. I'm not even trying that hard (i.e. I spend most of my time leveling and exploring) as a new-ish player, and I'm making more than enough money. Even so, I think changes need to be made so that all players have access to more of the market (low level players can't access most kiosks, limiting their purchasing ability), and selling should not be restricted to those who join guilds.

The lol was referring to people acting as though players drive the drop rates of items, rather than the game itself. There isn't a such thing as "artificial" if players are buying stuff to resell, as the thread has had people claim. That is real demand, by people buying for a different reason than you. Everyone already can use the economy and trade system. You may not like the gameplay from what you're writing but it is indeed there and works well for most players. As far as socialization, you and others have quote vociferously stated your thoughts as to not wanting to work your way through the game because you can't solo it, and don't want to have to rely on anyone else as a team/guild. To me, that comes off pretty obviously as not wanting to socialize, because you're just shy of outright saying that. I'm not sure what your impression is of a guild, but it's not a job.

And the whole "illuminati wanting to keep their power and wealth" thing is just unreal to me to believe anyone actually thinks that about people playing an MMORPG as intended. I already covered the whole "you too can play the game to earn the rewards just like everyone else has" thing but the pro global AH crowd still has failed to acknowledge the grave issues that sort of system would have in a game like ESO with very little that is actually rare and readily available gear that is top tier. Most of the rarest gear is not powerful, just different. Just like with anything else difficult in gameplay, a certain crowd complains loudly to try to have nerfs rolled out with no thought of the consequences or that the current system is working well.

nastuug · May 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Point is, only the equivalent of drug cartels currently run the main trading vendor locations. They corner the market in an unfair by-design fashion. I'm not blaming them. I'd do the same in their position.

I can understand why some players woud prefer an AH and have valid arguments for it, but you definitely should STOP with this "super elitist guilds acting like drug cartels" because that is a a lie.

Drug cartels threaten people with their lives to force to obey to whatever they want. They use force. Big trade guilds don't threaten anyone with anything. They are just groups of players who get organized on a free will basis in order to win bids in good places. They use the money they have earned.

We do not fix prices either nor impose them on anyone, either buyers or sellers. Thinking otherwise is close to conspiracy theory and paranoia and simply untrue.

I don't see anything mafia or cartel-like in this. NOR anything unfair. EVERYONE and every guild can join the playfield and compete on an absolutely FAIR basis and many contributors of this thread who belong to "smaller guilds that have grown bigger" testified about this.

Something else (not related to your post but I add it here to avoid a double post) : As much as I like the current system, I fail to see how a global auction house would lower the prices. It's the match between offer and demand that makes the prices, and if something does not sell for high prices it just means that it is very common in the game and people will farm it instead of buying it. Nirncrux would sell at high prices even in a global AH because they're so damn difficult to farm that less people would farm them if they were cheaper (and price would go up again because of scarcer supply).

And I insist : trading (buying as well as selling) is entirely optional in the game. Everything and anything can be farmed.

Ouch. I must have struck a nerve. Super elitist trading guilds are using force: the force that money buys. Through size and establishment, guilds can control which traders are locked down with ridiculously high blind bids. Smaller guilds have no chance in competing. Once said trade guilds max their member pop, it's game over for other guilds that want in.

It's not like we have hundreds of prime trading guilds on one server competing here. We have a small cartel of overly wealthy guilds controlling the market right now. Supply/demand can't be monitored or tracked without addon support, players must inconveniently travel through many worlds just to search through all the junk that's for sale, and small to medium guilds are completely cut out of the picture.

So yes, I'm stating they maintain the same attitude, mentality, and cruel methods that one would typically see in a drug cartel. Deal with it.

sagitter · May 2015

I'm against AH, the current trading system is fine and is what makes Eso different from others mmo and more special for me. AH is for Lazy players.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Coz it would supposedly destroy the economy that doesn't exist in the first place. I dunno, people are weird. Shouting WTS all day is better I guess.

There are a handful of minor positives to thousands of players big auction houses, but global ones are inevitably inferior. This system has more depth and is more intricate.

So I guess the ability for humans to browse and purchase goods over the Internet from all parts of the world is inferior to a handful of markets run by the equivalent of drug cartels?

Are you trying to back me up? That is exactly what we all do in ESO. Anyone and everyone can buy and trade, and the successful can buy shops to sell through. Don't want to pay a million gold a week for a kiosk? Maybe there's something to the idea of building up a trade guild that can then, huh?

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Market needs to be available to all persons, even the guildless
Market needs to be searchable from a central kiosk or merchant
Market needs some way to easily monitor supply and demand of items
Seriously, how hard can this be?

Let me rephrase if you don't mind :
- You would like the market to be available to all persons, even the guildless, (it does not NEED to be this way. It's an MMO where you have to group to achieve high level content, same applies to trading, I don't see the problem here)
- You would like the market to be searchable from a central database - again it does not have to be that way, IMO current system is more fun and immersive, including for buyers)

Point 3 does not need to be rephrased since market is monitored already by supply and demand and nobody and nothing is monitoring it otherwise (except maybe ZOS who can alter drop rates of items).

nastuug · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Coz it would supposedly destroy the economy that doesn't exist in the first place. I dunno, people are weird. Shouting WTS all day is better I guess.

There are a handful of minor positives to thousands of players big auction houses, but global ones are inevitably inferior. This system has more depth and is more intricate.

So I guess the ability for humans to browse and purchase goods over the Internet from all parts of the world is inferior to a handful of markets run by the equivalent of drug cartels?

Maybe there's something to the idea of building up a trade guild that can then, huh?

No there isn't. Limited trade vendors exist. That's why there's a limited few elitist trading guilds cornering those with insanely high blind bids all the time. This leaves little room for competition.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

driosketch wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

I am fighting hard for the auction house as the current system is floored if anyone here as seen my threads part 5 covers this well.

In it i point out how it screws over all by the large guilds because the little guys cannot afford 1.5 million for a vendor.

I'm in a small guild and we manage to have a kiosk more often than not. We do move around alot, and we've never spent a million for one, not even close. Not even for two separate stretches we spent in Elden Root. We've even gotten unhired traders for 100g. Last one was in an outlaw refuge that we held for a second week with a 23k bid. And I usually manage to have decent sales even from the out of the way traders. Hell, and not everyone in the guild even uses the store because we are not actually a trade guild. Often we don't even have 100 items listed total. So there are definitely opportunities out there for small guilds, it just requires one or more dedicated members handling the location scouting and bidding.

Pretty much any start up guild of 50 active players could establish themselves at a single trader in a couple weeks, and recruiting near your kiosk, could work your way up to one of the clusters. And should you be a good trade community, could eventually steal spots from the long established guilds.

I think people get it in their heads that something is too hard that they talk themselves into quitting before they even try.

My guild is relatively small as well, and we have managed a vedor as well.
It's not a matter of being able to sell your wares, it's a matter of buying them.

The current system only benefits sellers and is a massive inconvenience to buyers. Especially for low level characters, who will literally find nothing in a guild store. Even ones located in the FIRST area.

Every kiosk is pretty much in safe walking distance of a way shrine. A new starter island player doesn't really have need or money to shop the guild stores, but they could travel to player to Coldharbor if they wanted. An AH is convenient to buyers, I'll give you that, but to such an unbalanced degree it would tank the market for low and mid level sellers.

First, getting a new player to travel to Coldharbour suggests he knows someone to travel to, probably in a guild. How many new starter island players are in a guild? Or are you saying that in addition to having to be in a guild to sell you should also be in a guild to buy? However, I agree that a new starter island player doesn't actually need to buy anything from the stores, although he may want to do some trading early on and currently is unlikely to be able to.

Second, an AH wouldn't tank the market for low and mid level sellers, not least because you'd be opening the system up to low and mid level buyers.

Not even. I've given a random in AD a ride to Skywatch. To SKYWATCH.

The other day someone was asking in zone about respecting skill points in DC. I grouped with them and gave this stranger a port to Wayrest. No guild needed, just friendly people in zone.

I'm sitting at number six on the Sanctum Ophidia leaderboards across all 3 factions... and I do the same thing you do

. Perhaps if some of the people trying to come up with reasons the system is broken instead were friendlier rather than spamming meme pictures of cats preparing for war..... they'd notice how the game works and that not everyone is completely self focused to where they're ignoring anything else in game that isn't happening to them specifically? Maybe. Many players seek a guild before even installing an MMORPG, too. There are communities and tools out there to do so, and if you go in alone? Asking for help getting your bearings usually goes well

.

nastuug · May 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Market needs to be available to all persons, even the guildless
Market needs to be searchable from a central kiosk or merchant
Market needs some way to easily monitor supply and demand of items
Seriously, how hard can this be?

Let me rephrase if you don't mind :
- You would like the market to be available to all persons, even the guildless, (it does not NEED to be this way. It's an MMO where you have to group to achieve high level content, same applies to trading, I don't see the problem here)
- You would like the market to be searchable from a central database - again it does not have to be that way, IMO current system is more fun and immersive, including for buyers)

Point 3 does not need to be rephrased since market is monitored already by supply and demand and nobody and nothing is monitoring it otherwise (except maybe ZOS who can alter drop rates of items).

Wait. Before you get trolled by someone else, I just have to ask you. You actually have fun traveling to multiple merchants and dealing with the search reset each time you exit the window? I just want to make sure I understand that correctly...

Uhm, wtf are you smoking? "Market is monitored already by supply and demand..." The market doesn't monitor the supply and demand, Jesus. The players would monitor and track this. What is the current average sale of an item? How many units are moving daily/weekly/monthly? These are the questions at-hand when talking about supply and demand. Jesus Christ people...

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Coz it would supposedly destroy the economy that doesn't exist in the first place. I dunno, people are weird. Shouting WTS all day is better I guess.

There are a handful of minor positives to thousands of players big auction houses, but global ones are inevitably inferior. This system has more depth and is more intricate.

So I guess the ability for humans to browse and purchase goods over the Internet from all parts of the world is inferior to a handful of markets run by the equivalent of drug cartels?

Maybe there's something to the idea of building up a trade guild that can then, huh?

No there isn't. Limited trade vendors exist. That's why there's a limited few elitist trading guilds cornering those with insanely high blind bids all the time. This leaves little room for competition.

It appears your complaint isn't therefore that it can't be done, but rather that you aren't able to do it because you lack the funds to compete against people doing the same thing you're doing. Guilds bid what they can afford, nd the price is set by the mrkt naturally that way. There truly is not some magical cartel that tells everyone to bid this amount on this kiosk and it'syours, don't bid on the others, each week. Continue complaining but all this is amounts to another request to dumb down and nerf a game

.

Glurin · May 2015

MercyKilling wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Oh yes, we need a global AH just like every other MMO out there. That way we can have all the things they have as well!
One or two gold sellers controlling the entire economy.

When was the last time you saw a gold seller advertisement in zone chat, anywhere?

Exactly. No AH means it's that much harder for gold sellers to do business. Lets not assume that the rodents won't ever come back so we're free to cover the house in garbage again, m'kay.

Turelus · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

No there isn't. Limited trade vendors exist. That's why there's a limited few elitist trading guilds cornering those with insanely high blind bids all the time. This leaves little room for competition.

Breaking my leave to answer this one... I can't stay away from a good debate it seems.

Tell that to Casa'Da Suba (spelling?), Payday, Just Traders and The Veteran Traders on EU servers. They use to have the Craglorn vendors until other smaller guilds organised, started teaching their members how to trade, taking donations from members, selling only quality and in demand items and worked their way up from places like Bleakrock to Craglorn.

If you want to be the best in an area of a game you're going to have to work on that.

For those asking for an auction house make a strong constructive post looking at both the pros and the cons of each system. Right now it seems more about trash talking successful players because some people are too lazy to do their own leg work.

Now if any of those people here upset they can't sell their wares and upset about it want to join any of the Craglorn guilds and play the EU servers feel free to send me a message in game (Tarvynus Vedralu) and I can see about getting you into one.

nastuug · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Coz it would supposedly destroy the economy that doesn't exist in the first place. I dunno, people are weird. Shouting WTS all day is better I guess.

There are a handful of minor positives to thousands of players big auction houses, but global ones are inevitably inferior. This system has more depth and is more intricate.

So I guess the ability for humans to browse and purchase goods over the Internet from all parts of the world is inferior to a handful of markets run by the equivalent of drug cartels?

Maybe there's something to the idea of building up a trade guild that can then, huh?

No there isn't. Limited trade vendors exist. That's why there's a limited few elitist trading guilds cornering those with insanely high blind bids all the time. This leaves little room for competition.

It appears your complaint isn't therefore that it can't be done, but rather that you aren't able to do it because you lack the funds to compete against people doing the same thing you're doing. Guilds bid what they can afford, nd the price is set by the mrkt naturally that way. There truly is not some magical cartel that tells everyone to bid this amount on this kiosk and it'syours, don't bid on the others, each week. Continue complaining but all this is amounts to another request to dumb down and nerf a game .

I never mentioned any type of conspiracy whereby all elitist trading guilds are working together.

And you're right; I don't have millions of gold to blow on a blind trader bid. So that means I don't have the ability to sell my goods? If I choose not to be part of or am unable to join, for one reason or another, one of the few elitist trading guilds, I am not allowed to sell my goods to the public? FFS

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Market needs to be available to all persons, even the guildless
Market needs to be searchable from a central kiosk or merchant
Market needs some way to easily monitor supply and demand of items
Seriously, how hard can this be?

Let me rephrase if you don't mind :
- You would like the market to be available to all persons, even the guildless, (it does not NEED to be this way. It's an MMO where you have to group to achieve high level content, same applies to trading, I don't see the problem here)
- You would like the market to be searchable from a central database - again it does not have to be that way, IMO current system is more fun and immersive, including for buyers)

Point 3 does not need to be rephrased since market is monitored already by supply and demand and nobody and nothing is monitoring it otherwise (except maybe ZOS who can alter drop rates of items).

Wait. Before you get trolled by someone else, I just have to ask you. You actually have fun traveling to multiple merchants and dealing with the search reset each time you exit the window? I just want to make sure I understand that correctly...

Uhm, wtf are you smoking? "Market is monitored already by supply and demand..." The market doesn't monitor the supply and demand, Jesus. The players would monitor and track this. What is the current average sale of an item? How many units are moving daily/weekly/monthly? These are the questions at-hand when talking about supply and demand. Jesus Christ people...

Google says hello, and would like to introduce you to esoui.com which is a large sanctioned in game add on website for this game. Again, another example of complaints with no basis in reality and showing not having even known the system they are complaining about in the first place. The stock UI is poor, and I have said that since beta, my newest thread on that being in my signature. But you can go grab addons to make it work until the day ZOS decides to

. I repeat a search with one button press when moving between kiosks, and have a history with favorites list to boot. I have a database of all sales that happened in guilds I am in on both my main account and my mule account, and it even shows a scatter plot of them for an easy visual reference when I hover over an item in my bag or click a link in chat. You've yet to provide a single thing that a global auction house would help objectively, while people enjoying the current system have provided plenty that would hurt, and that the current one īs better in many ways and just different in others. Learn the topic before coming in and demanding change!

nastuug · May 2015

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

No there isn't. Limited trade vendors exist. That's why there's a limited few elitist trading guilds cornering those with insanely high blind bids all the time. This leaves little room for competition.

Breaking my leave to answer this one... I can't stay away from a good debate it seems.

Tell that to Casa'Da Suba (spelling?), Payday, Just Traders and The Veteran Traders on EU servers. They use to have the Craglorn vendors until other smaller guilds organised, started teaching their members how to trade, taking donations from members, selling only quality and in demand items and worked their way up from places like Bleakrock to Craglorn.

If you want to be the best in an area of a game you're going to have to work on that.

For those asking for an auction house make a strong constructive post looking at both the pros and the cons of each system. Right now it seems more about trash talking successful players because some people are too lazy to do their own leg work.

Now if any of those people here upset they can't sell their wares and upset about it want to join any of the Craglorn guilds and play the EU servers feel free to send me a message in game (Tarvynus Vedralu) and I can see about getting you into one.

GTFO of here with that elitist nonsense. You know damn well it's developed into a small few who have the prime merchants on lockdown. Don't try to come off as innocent. Corporations are people too right? Ugh, disgusting.

RazzPitazz · May 2015

So exactly how hard is it to START a trading guild?

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

So yes, I'm stating they maintain the same attitude, mentality, and cruel methods that one would typically see in a drug cartel. Deal with it.

And that's still a lie. Not even a disagreement, just a plain lie.

Anyway, just please explain, if the whole in game market is controlled by just a few guilds that totally forbid others to enter the field, how come that every week many kiosks remain unbid for ?

nastuug · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Market needs to be available to all persons, even the guildless
Market needs to be searchable from a central kiosk or merchant
Market needs some way to easily monitor supply and demand of items
Seriously, how hard can this be?

Let me rephrase if you don't mind :
- You would like the market to be available to all persons, even the guildless, (it does not NEED to be this way. It's an MMO where you have to group to achieve high level content, same applies to trading, I don't see the problem here)
- You would like the market to be searchable from a central database - again it does not have to be that way, IMO current system is more fun and immersive, including for buyers)

Point 3 does not need to be rephrased since market is monitored already by supply and demand and nobody and nothing is monitoring it otherwise (except maybe ZOS who can alter drop rates of items).

Wait. Before you get trolled by someone else, I just have to ask you. You actually have fun traveling to multiple merchants and dealing with the search reset each time you exit the window? I just want to make sure I understand that correctly...

Uhm, wtf are you smoking? "Market is monitored already by supply and demand..." The market doesn't monitor the supply and demand, Jesus. The players would monitor and track this. What is the current average sale of an item? How many units are moving daily/weekly/monthly? These are the questions at-hand when talking about supply and demand. Jesus Christ people...

Google says hello, and would like to introduce you to esoui.com which is a large sanctioned in game add on website for this game. Again, another example of complaints with no basis in reality and showing not having even known the system they are complaining about in the first place. The stock UI is poor, and I have said that since beta, my newest thread on that being in my signature. But you can go grab addons to make it work until the day ZOS decides to . I repeat a search with one button press when moving between kiosks, and have a history with favorites list to boot. I have a database of all sales that happened in guilds I am in on both my main account and my mule account, and it even shows a scatter plot of them for an easy visual reference when I hover over an item in my bag or click a link in chat. You've yet to provide a single thing that a global auction house would help objectively, while people enjoying the current system have provided plenty that would hurt, and that the current one īs better in many ways and just different in others. Learn the topic before coming in and demanding change!

tldr -- We shouldn't be reliant on an addon for very basic market features that should already exist in the game. Next.

drschplatt · May 2015

Everybody isn't against it. It's a wonderful idea that is long overdue.

Shadesofkin · May 2015

I'm generally against it.

As for the why: because I like the vendor system and I want to keep it this way.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

GTFO of here with that elitist nonsense. You know damn well it's developed into a small few who have the prime merchants on lockdown. Don't try to come off as innocent. Corporations are people too right? Ugh, disgusting.

"You know damn well" never made proof. Please bring evidence. What you say is simply not true. End of story.

As someone said before, House Zar, Casa de Subastas and other "prime guilds" have been seriously endangered these past two weeks by upcoming guilds. We laughed and welcomed the competition though. That's the name of the game :-)

Turelus · May 2015

rajaniemiorama_ESO wrote: »

So exactly how hard is it to START a trading guild?

To reach the level of the Craglorn guilds takes a lot of investment however if you're interested in starting a trade guild you should consider a few things.

Firstly you want to encourage trading and social behaviour within your guild, many trade guilds double as places for people to get PUG's for daily dungeons etc.

You should make sure you're aware of the current values of good items and encourage your members to sell items which are in demand at good prices.

Ask for donations from members to work towards getting an outline merchant somewhere, these merchants are often visited by endgame players looking for deals outside of the normal prices in Craglorn. Once you have a merchant on a regular basis your members can continue to improve their sales.

Remember that all sales done via the store give you a percentage cut of the gold, reinvest this gold into bidding on merchants working your way up. Try to encourage members to sell via the store rather than direct transfers as it helps raise money for merchants.

Be willing to use add-ons which make tracking sales and values easier. Downloading the ZAM client called Minion will make downloading and installing add-ons much easier. After this look at the various add-ons which help you trade efficiently and encourage your members to do the same (they make more money with better sales after all). I personally use AwesomeGuildStore and Master Merchant in combination.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

GTFO of here with that elitist nonsense. You know damn well it's developed into a small few who have the prime merchants on lockdown. Don't try to come off as innocent. Corporations are people too right? Ugh, disgusting.

"You know damn well" never made proof. Please bring evidence. What you say is simply not true. End of story.

As someone said before, House Zar, Casa de Subastas and other "prime guilds" have been seriously endangered these past two weeks by upcoming guilds. We laughed and welcomed the competition though. That's the name of the game :-)

@nastuug doesn't want competition, he just uses it as a buzzword scapegoat... competition is what we have now, and he is repeatedly saying he just can't compete. So instead of getting better at it, he is asking for t to be given to him and nerfed. Sound familiar to anyone else?

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Wait. Before you get trolled by someone else, I just have to ask you. You actually have fun traveling to multiple merchants and dealing with the search reset each time you exit the window? I just want to make sure I understand that correctly...

Uhm, wtf are you smoking? "Market is monitored already by supply and demand..." The market doesn't monitor the supply and demand, Jesus. The players would monitor and track this. What is the current average sale of an item? How many units are moving daily/weekly/monthly? These are the questions at-hand when talking about supply and demand. Jesus Christ people...

Leave Jesus out of it please, it's a GAME :-)

And YES I have fun travelling around looking for stuff just like I have fun shopping IRL in various shops and do not necessarily want everything stacked up in a huge shopping mall.
It makes me travel back to zones that I had forgotten about and enjoy seeing them again.

Now if I don't have time to do this then I don't do it : as simple as that. Everything can be quite easily farmed in the game so there is no absolute primary need for trading anyway. It's just an optional side of the game like PvP or raiding or pickpocketing or whatever.

And for urgent "everyday needs" like plants or potions or food I keep those in my inventory anyway.

And as others stated : you have tools (admittedly via addons) that let you know quite precisely about supply and demand state of each and every item in the game. You don't want to use them => your choice, but don't QQ then.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Market needs to be available to all persons, even the guildless
Market needs to be searchable from a central kiosk or merchant
Market needs some way to easily monitor supply and demand of items
Seriously, how hard can this be?

Let me rephrase if you don't mind :
- You would like the market to be available to all persons, even the guildless, (it does not NEED to be this way. It's an MMO where you have to group to achieve high level content, same applies to trading, I don't see the problem here)
- You would like the market to be searchable from a central database - again it does not have to be that way, IMO current system is more fun and immersive, including for buyers)

Point 3 does not need to be rephrased since market is monitored already by supply and demand and nobody and nothing is monitoring it otherwise (except maybe ZOS who can alter drop rates of items).

Wait. Before you get trolled by someone else, I just have to ask you. You actually have fun traveling to multiple merchants and dealing with the search reset each time you exit the window? I just want to make sure I understand that correctly...

Uhm, wtf are you smoking? "Market is monitored already by supply and demand..." The market doesn't monitor the supply and demand, Jesus. The players would monitor and track this. What is the current average sale of an item? How many units are moving daily/weekly/monthly? These are the questions at-hand when talking about supply and demand. Jesus Christ people...

Google says hello, and would like to introduce you to esoui.com which is a large sanctioned in game add on website for this game. Again, another example of complaints with no basis in reality and showing not having even known the system they are complaining about in the first place. The stock UI is poor, and I have said that since beta, my newest thread on that being in my signature. But you can go grab addons to make it work until the day ZOS decides to . I repeat a search with one button press when moving between kiosks, and have a history with favorites list to boot. I have a database of all sales that happened in guilds I am in on both my main account and my mule account, and it even shows a scatter plot of them for an easy visual reference when I hover over an item in my bag or click a link in chat. You've yet to provide a single thing that a global auction house would help objectively, while people enjoying the current system have provided plenty that would hurt, and that the current one īs better in many ways and just different in others. Learn the topic before coming in and demanding change!

tldr -- We shouldn't be reliant on an addon for very basic market features that should already exist in the game. Next.

Nope, we shouldn't, but yet you haven't been asking for that to be fixed. Instead you've been comparing other players to murderous drug cartels and thugs, and begging for the game to be changed entirely, not for the UI to be fixed. Click the link in my signature and try that argument again

.

nastuug · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

GTFO of here with that elitist nonsense. You know damn well it's developed into a small few who have the prime merchants on lockdown. Don't try to come off as innocent. Corporations are people too right? Ugh, disgusting.

"You know damn well" never made proof. Please bring evidence. What you say is simply not true. End of story.

As someone said before, House Zar, Casa de Subastas and other "prime guilds" have been seriously endangered these past two weeks by upcoming guilds. We laughed and welcomed the competition though. That's the name of the game :-)

@nastuug doesn't want competition, he just uses it as a buzzword scapegoat... competition is what we have now, and he is repeatedly saying he just can't compete. So instead of getting better at it, he is asking for t to be given to him and nerfed. Sound familiar to anyone else?

Actually it's the elitist trading guilds that don't want competition. Zero competition means 100% market control. Nt though.

Peekachu99 · May 2015

Not against it. Same as a functional LFG. It's a modern convenience that pretty much every modern MMORPG has. Antiquated design doesn't need to be defended. We have conveniences in games (and life) for a reason.