Why is everybody against an auction house?

Knight150

We need a decent auction house in this game the current system is restrictive and crap. GW2 model would be nice.

Heromofo

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

A Call For Cease Fire For 5 Minutes lol

Surprisingly, this has been a very cordial conversation thus far.

Not sure how I feel about your suggestion though.

@ZOS Help us out here! How can we make this better without destroying the economy or taking advantage of other players?

Something has to be done to make both sides happy yim do you think my suggestion has any merit?
Or another solution idea?

Buying slots in an AH?
I'd like a little more detail, if possible.

Any form of free-for-all market will upset those using the current system.
The solution would have to be including it in such a way that it either utilizes or does not interfere with the system presently in place. There's few ways this could be done.

I think the best solution would be to make the auction house include guild stores with vendors and give them a priority, where their goods appear over anyone else's. So if I was looking for a specific item I would only see the highest priority items, those sold by vendors, and only if there were none of those would I see those of other players.

These items would have to factor in the level as well, as I would not be happy to only see items that are beyond what I can use. This is my issue with the current system, low-level gear is practically non-existent in these shops.

The second concept, but less favored, is to make it available ONLY to those with vendors. Making the system work exactly how it is but eliminating the need to travel everywhere to compare prices.

DAM garrett maybe you should be working for zos

+++1 from me

Nivzruo_ESO

Because the current top trade guild set the prices, and they like being able to overcharge the new players who don't know any better. An auction house would bring them competition.

Heromofo

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

Because the current top trade guild set the prices, and they like being able to overcharge the new players who don't know any better. An auction house would bring them competition.

Well thats why we must fight to even the field people bag ah for lowering prices well i bag eso guild vendors for fixing prices lol

Wyietsayon

You mean I can't go to my small local market and order every single thing in existence? I have to actually go to other stores to get some items?
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!?!

Yinmaigao

Perhaps you have never heard of Amazon?

Sorry, couldn't resist

Lord_Kreegan

For anyone who has EVER studied economics, the trade guild system is total and complete anathema to building a good economy. The only people really supporting it are the people gouging others with prices that are beyond what a free market with prices dictated by supply and demand would lead to.

However, the trade guild system does dampen the opportunity for gold sellers to have much impact on the game.

That's the only positive aspect of the current system, no matter what idiotic rationalizations are made to the contrary. Usually, what we hear from the sellers is that the existing system keeps prices from going "too low". Anyone who has EVER studied economics knows that if demand is too low and supply too high, prices SHOULD go low and sellers should find a different commodity to sell.

But you'll get nothing but specious arguments from the advocates of the trade guilds, the guys gouging everyone else.

The solution? NEVER buy from the trade guilds. NEVER. NOT EVER. They will eventually go out of business. They are their own worst enemies, so force them to lower their prices to something reasonable or go out of business.

And maybe when the majority of them go out of business, ZOS will get its head out of *** defilade and implement a proper auction house.

Cuyler

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

For convenience? Well, yeah. Last time I checked this was 2015, and we all work our ass off just to come home and relax for a few hours in whatever way suits us. This is a game, not a job. I shouldn't feel like I have to punch in for a five hour shift then punch out for bed. Log on a few times a week, sell some derpgear, log off...

You're right. It is an entirely different area of the game. And currently it's limited to the very few super elitist trading guilds, and that's it.

FYI, stop talking like you built some empire. You hopped in a trade guild and sold some junk. What we all want is the ability to buy and sell our junk within an easy, simple, and searchable application.

Humm... sorry but it was a big work (game, actually) and we successful traders are proud of it just like others are proud of their kill counters or their leaderboards or whatever else in the game.

I remind you that you don't HAVE to trade at all.

And please explain why and how it's limited to a few elitist guilds because that is plain wrong in my experience. Everyone can trade, join a trading guild and join the fun.

Yuup. They're just drumming up conspiracy theories and crackpot ideologies that just because your a v14 and in a trade guild with a kiosk in Rawl'kha were all involved in some price fixing ring LOL!!

Most of the truly large and established trade guilds I'm in message their members weekly encouraging them to lower prices and remain competitive which is the exact opposite of your fantastical imaginations. Cause that's how we make sales!

News flash:
It's already a free market and most of us who have been here since the beginning and have the good stuff to sell are just choosing what we want to sell it for, take it or leave it. We have competitive prices with other guilds and eventually a addon like master merchant will quickly tell you what an average price should be. There is already healthy supply and demand. There's doesn't need to be a million participants in the economy to achieve this. Although as a buyer I could see why you'd want that because it would hyperdeflate the prices to rock bottom.

I assume those who are new and are still buying things are just coping out and taking the lazy/cheap way of pressuring sellers to lower prices with the Global AH for there own self-serving purposes.

Just cause your new or casual doesn't entitle you to free/cheap stuff via an ultra convenient AH. It's the exact opposite actually. ZOS wants to retain value for items, this is how they choose to do it. It works and it works well. As a seller, yes, I prefer to have an economy where things have value and that is what ESO is providing. Again, I still have to price competitively to sell things. Coming here to QQ about price fixing is just pitiful. Play the game like the rest of us sellers and go get it yourself if you don't like the prices.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

AH = 5 Guild Stores in RawKa

Cuyler

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

For anyone who has EVER studied economics, the trade guild system is total and complete anathema to building a good economy. The only people really supporting it are the people gouging others with prices that are beyond what a free market with prices dictated by supply and demand would lead to.

However, the trade guild system does dampen the opportunity for gold sellers to have much impact on the game.

That's the only positive aspect of the current system, no matter what idiotic rationalizations are made to the contrary. Usually, what we hear from the sellers is that the existing system keeps prices from going "too low". Anyone who has EVER studied economics knows that if demand is too low and supply too high, prices SHOULD go low and sellers should find a different commodity to sell.

But you'll get nothing but specious arguments from the advocates of the trade guilds, the guys goiuging everyone else.

The solution? NEVER buy from the trade guilds. NEVER. NOT EVER. They will eventually go out of business. They are their own worst enemies, so force them to lower their prices to something reasonable or go out of business.

And maybe when the majority of them go out of business, ZOS will get its head out of *** defilade and implement a proper auction house.

When you're on a mega server, with millions of ppl in a Global AH, items meant to be rare (by developer choice) no longer are rare and become hyperdeflated. What is so hard to grasp?

Edit: It's set up this way so casuals who actually take the effort to play the game and get the item themselves have a chance. Otherwise the drop rates would need to be .0000000000000001% and no one would get it and then you'd see hyperinflation.

Snit

Medieval Amazon.com.

That's what AH's are -- instant, convenient one-stop shops for everything. Many players like convenient. Others find it more immersive and interesting to shop at a bunch of smaller stores, all with widely varying stocks and pricing. If you want a specific crafted item, you may even have to seek out an individual crafter.

They're very different experiences. Most of TESO's design decisions lean toward immersion rather than the standard MMO 'player friendly/ convenience' model. Similarly, we have no instant-action Battlegrounds, no Looking For (instant) Raid function and... well, you get the idea. Once players get past, "but that's not what I am used to from other games," many find they appreciate at least some of these choices.

The lack of an AH will probably always remain the most controversial, though. I disliked it at first. Now, it makes sense.

Heromofo

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

For anyone who has EVER studied economics, the trade guild system is total and complete anathema to building a good economy. The only people really supporting it are the people gouging others with prices that are beyond what a free market with prices dictated by supply and demand would lead to.

However, the trade guild system does dampen the opportunity for gold sellers to have much impact on the game.

That's the only positive aspect of the current system, no matter what idiotic rationalizations are made to the contrary. Usually, what we hear from the sellers is that the existing system keeps prices from going "too low". Anyone who has EVER studied economics knows that if demand is too low and supply too high, prices SHOULD go low and sellers should find a different commodity to sell.

But you'll get nothing but specious arguments from the advocates of the trade guilds, the guys goiuging everyone else.

The solution? NEVER buy from the trade guilds. NEVER. NOT EVER. They will eventually go out of business. They are their own worst enemies, so force them to lower their prices to something reasonable or go out of business.

And maybe when the majority of them go out of business, ZOS will get its head out of *** defilade and implement a proper auction house.

amen brother

qsnoopyjr

Nestor wrote: »

Isn't the whole idea of an MMO to search out that which is rare? An Auction House takes that away. I also like being able to find bargains.

As far as not being able to find what I want, of the common items, that is not an issue with the current system. I can search 10 guild stores in a matter of a few minutes (5 Kiosks in a town and the 5 I am a member of) and find anything common I need. May not be for the best price, but that is for me to determine if it's worth looking for a bargain.

The only two issues with the current system is more guilds that want to be a part of it are locked out than are allowed in, and you have to be in a guild to sell in Kiosk (and a guild that gets a Kiosk). The first is easy to fix if they would just allow more than one Guild to get a Kiosk. Which would also take care of the other issue as more people could find a guild that has a kiosk to sell in.

Exactly

Why do you think most of the Diablo2 fans HATE Diablo 3?
They put in that auction house and made the game easy mode, like insane easy mode, you don't even bother looting because theres 100 copies of the best kind of weapon for that kind of price in the auction house.

People LIKED the, show me your good stuff, and I'll show you mine.
Nice, greatsword do you want anything for it? You want my stone ring of Jordan???? Greatsword plus that amulet and I'll trade you my stone ring of Jordan.. Player 2 puts in greatsword and amulet checkmarks, player 1 puts in stone ring of Jordan and checkmarks. Trade done.
Walk up to the next dude, what you got (wug)???
"nothing but junk" I say to myself and cancel the trade, while that player goes to his bank and shows me some more stuff because he wants my cow king helmet or something.


Annnd today... You got people worrying about, "how are we going to trade if we cant link items on console"...
*shakes head*

I can imagine 40 years from now, everything is bought online... Internet crashes and people go crazy because they don't know how to get milk.
Go knock on your neighbor door and ask for it and trade with him.

You don't have to do everything through a system (auctionhouse/ guild traders)

Main reason why I don't like it, is because it will drive all the prices down and make everything too obtainable.

You have some games that say "tradeskills sucks"
Yeah because theres too many components and they real cheap, hence not worth it.

If you got hard time finding components, others are too. tradeskills are worth more than they'd be worth with an auction house.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO

Wyietsayon wrote: »

You mean I can't go to my small local market and order every single thing in existence? I have to actually go to other stores to get some items?
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!?!

IRL economics do not apply.
Obviously you cannot go to a store and order everything that exists.
I won't even begin to list all the real world rules this game breaks. It's fantasy.

The current system makes even less sense, though.
Your guild hires someone, at a ridiculous cost, to sell your wares. Why don't they steal everything? They're millionaires, why don't they retire? How do they contain all those items in such a small stall?

...Shall I continue?
The fact is, this is a game. Making something over-complicated, exclusive, and inconvenient does not make any sense and is only beneficial to a portion of the game's customers.

Snit

Heromofo wrote: »

What about
The smaller and medium guilds that cannot afford the millions to bet
The lone wolf players who are not happy to been forced into guilds to trade like myself

I'm in one of the top Trade Guilds in NA. I have not exchanged 10 words with anyone in it since joining. There is zero social commitment. I have, however, made quite a lot of coin using the Rawl Kha kiosk that guild provides.

As for guilds that can't afford a kiosk... I'll repeat a good sports quote, applicable to any player who does not appreciate being benched or cut: "If you don't like it, play better." Trading is competitive content in TESO.

Tandor

It's not everybody who's against an auction house, in the last poll it was fractionally over half. I think it was 48% who wanted one, and in the other recent poll only about a quarter wanted the present guild kiosk unchanged.

I personally think the current system is utterly broken except for the few wealthy high level members of the handful of top trading guilds, they're the ones most opposed to changing the system. I'd prefer a factional auction house but would happily settle for a major change to the existing system that retained the guild kiosk concept but opened it up to players at all levels irrespective of whether they belonged to a guild or not.

Cuyler

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

q

Wyietsayon wrote: »

You mean I can't go to my small local market and order every single thing in existence? I have to actually go to other stores to get some items?
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!?!

IRL economics do not apply.
Obviously you cannot go to a store and order everything that exists.
I won't even begin to list all the real world rules this game breaks. It's fantasy.

Yet you QQ about not having real world supply and demand, competition of millions of ppl. I guess whatever fits your argument.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

The fact is, this is a game. Making something over-complicated, exclusive, and inconvenient does not make any sense and is only beneficial to a portion of the game's customers.

You fail to see how this allows the devs to keep higher drop rates thereby including more casuals into getting a rare piece from the gear grind. Again by actual effort, not by simply sifting through a Global AH.

Davadin

Turelus wrote: »

Most of the arguments for a global AH are that it's easier for players and x game has it. Neither of these seem like positives which outweigh the reasons I like it above.

"easier" carry a very big weight for many people (yes, myself included)

The fact that you NEED to spend time in an MMO in order to get the best price for a certain item, browsing through a system with NO name-search function, is a bad thing.

To add salt to the wound, you get these competition between the guilds where the bid prices are so astronomical that smaller (read: the majority) guilds won't even dare to dream to bid on some traders...

Then you end up with zone chat flooded with WTS/WTB spams...

ZOS got a great idea, and like you, I can appreciate that idea. It's brilliant in fact to have it in an MMO.

But they execute it poorly when judging the players' expectation and usability.

Now, I'm part of a big enough guild that it's OK. I can play with the game. It's still fun. But I can also understand the frustration of many MANY (less vocal?) others who are frustrated with the lack of a centralized trading system.

Heromofo

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

Wyietsayon wrote: »

You mean I can't go to my small local market and order every single thing in existence? I have to actually go to other stores to get some items?
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!?!

IRL economics do not apply.
Obviously you cannot go to a store and order everything that exists.
I won't even begin to list all the real world rules this game breaks. It's fantasy.

The current system makes even less sense, though.
Your guild hires someone, at a ridiculous cost, to sell your wares. Why don't they steal everything? They're millionaires, why don't they retire? How do they contain all those items in such a small stall?

...Shall I continue?
The fact is, this is a game. Making something over-complicated, exclusive, and inconvenient does not make any sense and is only beneficial to a portion of the game's customers.

And drives away others that just wish to sell a few bits and pieces now and then on a casual base like we will see in the console side.

I really liked your idea garrett but we need to convince them that the system no just does not work.

Heromofo

Snit wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

What about
The smaller and medium guilds that cannot afford the millions to bet
The lone wolf players who are not happy to been forced into guilds to trade like myself

I'm in one of the top Trade Guilds in NA. I have not exchanged 10 words with anyone in it since joining. There is zero social commitment. I have, however, made quite a lot of coin using the Rawl Kha kiosk that guild provides.

As for guilds that can't afford a kiosk... I'll repeat a good sports quote, applicable to any player who does not appreciate being benched or cut: "If you don't like it, play better." Trading is competitive content in TESO.
[/qoute]
That quote does seem to represent ZOS stance on this matter and i understand
But its still a very silly idea.

granty2008cyb16_ESO

Bring on Something New Cause current system is no good imo

c.p.garrett1993_ESO

Cuyler wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

q

Wyietsayon wrote: »

You mean I can't go to my small local market and order every single thing in existence? I have to actually go to other stores to get some items?
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!?!

IRL economics do not apply.
Obviously you cannot go to a store and order everything that exists.
I won't even begin to list all the real world rules this game breaks. It's fantasy.

Yet you QQ about not having real world supply and demand, competition of millions of ppl. I guess whatever fits your argument.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

The fact is, this is a game. Making something over-complicated, exclusive, and inconvenient does not make any sense and is only beneficial to a portion of the game's customers.

You fail to see how this allows the devs to keep higher drop rates thereby including more casuals into getting a rare piece from the gear grind. Again by actual effort, not by simply sifting through a Global AH.

Allow me to re-phrase.
It's not a matter of IRL economics, your post included IRL limitations in economics.
IRL, I can go to the internet and do exactly what you just said.
IRL, previous to the internet, I could order from a catalog.
IRL, previous to the catalog, I could go to a specialist for custom work.
- Note: This can, technically, be done but is just as inconvenient and requires shouting out to strangers rather than going to an NPC specialist (who already owns a store that specializes in the craft).

If you wish to use real-world limitations than you must also acknowledge real-world options that are missing. I would be more than willing to sacrifice an AH for a catalog that produces the same effect, or for NPCs to be able to do custom work. Although these are lore-friendly and realistic, you will object because this breaks the current system and creates competition and a profit loss for you.

Be honest, this has nothing to do with lore. It's a matter of greed and selfishness.

driosketch

Heromofo wrote: »

I am fighting hard for the auction house as the current system is floored if anyone here as seen my threads part 5 covers this well.

In it i point out how it screws over all by the large guilds because the little guys cannot afford 1.5 million for a vendor.

I'm in a small guild and we manage to have a kiosk more often than not. We do move around alot, and we've never spent a million for one, not even close. Not even for two separate stretches we spent in Elden Root. We've even gotten unhired traders for 100g. Last one was in an outlaw refuge that we held for a second week with a 23k bid. And I usually manage to have decent sales even from the out of the way traders. Hell, and not everyone in the guild even uses the store because we are not actually a trade guild. Often we don't even have 100 items listed total. So there are definitely opportunities out there for small guilds, it just requires one or more dedicated members handling the location scouting and bidding.

Pretty much any start up guild of 50 active players could establish themselves at a single trader in a couple weeks, and recruiting near your kiosk, could work your way up to one of the clusters. And should you be a good trade community, could eventually steal spots from the long established guilds.

I think people get it in their heads that something is too hard that they talk themselves into quitting before they even try.

NewBlacksmurf

It's funny to read 200-2015 logic and then ppl yell at ZOS for killing lore

I'm pretty sure modern web based examples don't apply back then

Emma_Overload

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Oh, then what is the deal with people spamming to "sell AP"?

Not sure how that works, I see people doing it too but I don't know these mechanics tbh. However, I am sure that it has absolutely nothing to do with AH vs. kiosks.

Yinmaigao wrote: »

You can buy just about anything with gold, so having a corner of the market that is relevant in all aspects of gameplay is not good for the life of the game.

Just waiting for it to go the route of WoW "selling SO runs, 100k per, come get your free loot/quest completion!"

It probably already happens that people *pay* groups to carry them through instances for achievement, loot or leader boards positions. I've never witnessed it but it could well happen. And then, so what ? That's an issue between the people who offer the service and those who are ready to buy it.

Are you actually against an AH or against players getting rich in game currency ? Because I fail to understand how an AH would prevent good traders to make big money there too... they would probably even have it easier with an AH to dominate entier market segments since they would not have to run all over the place to check other sellers...

I HAVE seen exactly what you are talking about happen in ESO. A few weeks ago, I saw someone advertising in chat that they would take someone through DSA for 200K or something. I was so horrified and angered I didn't know what to say, so I said nothing for fear of getting banned for spewing expletives into zone chat. I don't know how common this is, but in my opinion this is part and parcel with ESO's tragic flaw at endgame: group-gated or solo-impossible content combined with BoP rewards. I can't think of any reason anyone would PAY for grouping unless they were totally desperate to complete content they couldn't do themselves. Personally, I would quit the game before I became party to an exploitative "sharecropper" economy where solo players had to pay fees to the privileged groupers to play on their plantations.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO

driosketch wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

I am fighting hard for the auction house as the current system is floored if anyone here as seen my threads part 5 covers this well.

In it i point out how it screws over all by the large guilds because the little guys cannot afford 1.5 million for a vendor.

I'm in a small guild and we manage to have a kiosk more often than not. We do move around alot, and we've never spent a million for one, not even close. Not even for two separate stretches we spent in Elden Root. We've even gotten unhired traders for 100g. Last one was in an outlaw refuge that we held for a second week with a 23k bid. And I usually manage to have decent sales even from the out of the way traders. Hell, and not everyone in the guild even uses the store because we are not actually a trade guild. Often we don't even have 100 items listed total. So there are definitely opportunities out there for small guilds, it just requires one or more dedicated members handling the location scouting and bidding.

Pretty much any start up guild of 50 active players could establish themselves at a single trader in a couple weeks, and recruiting near your kiosk, could work your way up to one of the clusters. And should you be a good trade community, could eventually steal spots from the long established guilds.

I think people get it in their heads that something is too hard that they talk themselves into quitting before they even try.

My guild is relatively small as well, and we have managed a vedor as well.
It's not a matter of being able to sell your wares, it's a matter of buying them.

The current system only benefits sellers and is a massive inconvenience to buyers. Especially for low level characters, who will literally find nothing in a guild store. Even ones located in the FIRST area.

Victus

I will also point out while I do like and enjoy the current system as it is set up, I agree some UI improvements would be very welcome.

Snit

Victus wrote: »

I will also point out while I do like and enjoy the current system as it is set up, I agree some UI improvements would be very welcome.

On this, I think we all agree.

I enjoy trading in TESO and I think it's an excellent system overall. I prefer it to the WoW or GW2 models. However, that is largely because I have the right addons loaded. Without those addons, the base trading interface would need vast improvement to achieve a score of "still pretty awful."

c.p.garrett1993_ESO

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's funny to read 200-2015 logic and then ppl yell at ZOS for killing lore

I'm pretty sure modern web based examples don't apply back then

I used time-period friendly examples just two posts up from this one.
However, an MMO often sacrifices lore for game-play conveniences.
Many things that could be available are not. Many things that shouldn't be are. Many things that are shouldn't be. It's an online game and, to a degree, expected to bend realistic standards for fun and convenience.

lihentian

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Not everyone is against an auction house

as quoted..