Templar Skills Bugged/made useless - IGNORED

Joy_Division · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!
Focused Charge: This ability has a GCD that locks you out of any action for 1-2 seconds after each use. We are aware this is happening, and are working on a fix.

Eclipse: After a successful spell reflect, you are unable to use any abilities for a few seconds. We are aware this is happening, and are working on a fix.

Solar Barrage: This ability grants empower, but does not apply to AoEs. It turns out that the bonus damage wasn’t applying to itself, and we’re currently testing a fix for this.

Sun Fire and Solar Flare: The travel speed of these projectiles is noticeably slower than other casted-projectile spells (such as Crystal Frags). We plan on increasing the travel speed for these projectiles in a future update.

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

Puncturing Strikes: We’re seeing reports that this ability is giving a 4 second CC immunity to every target it hits, regardless if they are hit by the knockback. We’re currently investigating to see if this is a bug or working as intended, and will let you know when we have an answer.

I do appreciate the acknowledgement of these issues and the status of them. However, when it comes to Templars I almsot always dread what exactly I am going to hear. I won't claim to speak for every Templar, but I will say this is the only class where ZoS acts like medieval doctors whose curative techniques involve drilling holes and killing their patients to "cure" the disease infecting them.

Focused Charge: While FINALLY we have the acknowledgment that the GCD is unintended and a fix is in the works, the more serious problem of being locked in an animation charge remains unacknowledged. Part of the reason this happens is latency / lag (the other charge skills bug out during these periods), but it is not the only reason as sometimes Templars get locked when game performance is good.
Eclipse: Glad to see the unable to use abilities bug is being looked at. I still think there is a critical failure with this spell in that *nothing* happens if you attempt to cast this spell on a target that has CC immunity or is even blocking. Is there another skill in the game where nothing happens when pressing a button?
Solar Barrage: Glad to see the potential fix. I still find its GCD obnoxious and unnecessary.
Sun Fire / Solar Flare: Speeding up the projectiles will help. Opinions may differ, but I don't feel either are competitive DPS skills to begin with.
Puncturing Strikes: Giving EVERY target CC immunity better *not* working as intended! For some reason that escapes me, it seems that ZoS feels it is perfectly acceptable to grant CC immunities - undoubtedly powerful combat states - to Templar opponents even though they were never hard-CCed in the first place. If a target is eclipsed, they suffer zero "crowd control" whatsoever and potentially very little inconvenience: they can easily ignore the effect by attacking targets other than the Templar or even the Templar using abilities that don't get reflected. Yet they are given CC immunity. That last hit from Biting Jabs in no way compares to the sort of effect someone hit with Wrecking Blow, Invasion, or Fear which are long CC durations users have to break of or can easily die. I would argue the CC duration for biting Jabs is less than the break-free animation, which would make it the only CC effect in the game that is counter-productive to break-free from! This skill needs to be redesigned: The final hit on the primary target needs to get knocked-down, i.e. under a real CC-effect, whereas the secondary target just take damage. And those secondary targets should in no way be granted CC immunity!

The final item I would like to comment on has already been addressed by Huntler. The best fix for Breath of Life is to REMOVE the delay after activation, not ADD a cast time! Templars are already stuck with one class heal that has a cast time - that nobody uses because it has a cast time - how can it possibly been seen as desirable, balanced, or a good thing to make the other heal the Templar has also have a cast time? This is just mind-boggling frustrating. It's obvious that ZoS's intention for 1.6 was to make other classes viably fill the healer role, but the way to do this is not to neuter the Templar, rather make healing for other classes viable. How is this such a big mystery? How is adding a cast time to BoL make a Dragonknight a more viable healer? The groups with the highest trials scores do not use Healing Ward, Regeneration, or the healing morph for Necrotic Orb which are supposed be the alternative for the tried and true formula of Healing Springs + Breathe of Life. Instead of making every Templar heal have a cast time, how about tweaking those other skills?

Edit: As a side note, I find the fact that people refer to this skill as "breath of life" under the assumption that nobody in their right mind would ever take "honor the dead" a separate, albeit still a legitimate, problem.

Fizzlewizzle · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

A bug is a bug. If it wasn't there before 1.6 or if it was doesn't matter. Atm it is a bug, which is convenient for the Templars.
That they might change it from a bug to a feature is their choice, and nothing we say can change that.
We only got a little bit of info as it is, yet everyone jumps to conclusions. I'd say wait for the changes before jumping the gun.

(And what was the insult... People get the update they ask for and all they do is complain. Where is the Thank you ZOS?)

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefulness of templars outside of BOL.

If they could do without... then why would people even bother starting up a topic about fixing it. Might as well have started a topic going like "Scrap Templars and give us a Class Change".
As someone who actually uses those skills the 1 negative doesn't outweigh the 6 positives.

As i said before... they only talked about the bug fixes, not about further changes.
For the people who only read the changes, and not the rest:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!

- "An Update on some of the Abilities", aka "We have begun discussing this and already have a few small thing. Still not everything, which might come at a later date, but we didn't want to let everyone wait to long".
- "Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions", aka "Don't Start jumping to conclusions... we have only started addressing the actual bugs in the game. we still have to address the way certain skills work, but we have to start with the biggest problems[/i]".

She tries to give us some long awaited information regarding changes... yet the only thing people do now is attack her for it.
With people like this: She tries to g

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

I'm more surprised that they don't lift the "F*ck You, Ungrateful #ssholes" flag and drill Templars completely into the ground.
(If i could do it i would make a special patch for people like that... you might guess the changes in that patch)

technohic · April 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

A bug is a bug. If it wasn't there before 1.6 or if it was doesn't matter. Atm it is a bug, which is convenient for the Templars.
That they might change it from a bug to a feature is their choice, and nothing we say can change that.
We only got a little bit of info as it is, yet everyone jumps to conclusions. I'd say wait for the changes before jumping the gun.

(And what was the insult... People get the update they ask for and all they do is complain. Where is the Thank you ZOS?)

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefulness of templars outside of BOL.

If they could do without... then why would people even bother starting up a topic about fixing it. Might as well have started a topic going like "Scrap Templars and give us a Class Change".
As someone who actually uses those skills the 1 negative doesn't outweigh the 6 positives.

As i said before... they only talked about the bug fixes, not about further changes.
For the people who only read the changes, and not the rest:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!

- "An Update on some of the Abilities", aka "We have begun discussing this and already have a few small thing. Still not everything, which might come at a later date, but we didn't want to let everyone wait to long".
- "Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions", aka "Don't Start jumping to conclusions... we have only started addressing the actual bugs in the game. we still have to address the way certain skills work, but we have to start with the biggest problems[/i]".

She tries to give us some long awaited information regarding changes... yet the only thing people do now is attack her for it.
With people like this: She tries to g

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

I'm more surprised that they don't lift the "F*ck You, Ungrateful #ssholes" flag and drill Templars completely into the ground.
(If i could do it i would make a special patch for people like that... you might guess the changes in that patch)

You read "Update of some abilities" wrong. She is clearly talking about updating us with what they have written here and where they are with it. Not some other ones. Them trying to focus on only the abilities that are bugged does not mean that they are also planning other changes. She's just saying they are going to ignore the comments about design decisions more or less.

Sorry, but all it boils down to is she is acknowledging some of the bugs. There is nothing really pointing to any design changes being planned that may ore may not be positive. In stead, just one of the bug fixes kind of implies that it is bugged in the opposite direction of what most of us hope, and its a doozy.

EDIT: And nobody is trying to attack her for it. We have concerns and rightfully so.

Huntler · April 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

A bug is a bug. If it wasn't there before 1.6 or if it was doesn't matter. Atm it is a bug, which is convenient for the Templars.
That they might change it from a bug to a feature is their choice, and nothing we say can change that.
We only got a little bit of info as it is, yet everyone jumps to conclusions. I'd say wait for the changes before jumping the gun.

(And what was the insult... People get the update they ask for and all they do is complain. Where is the Thank you ZOS?)

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefulness of templars outside of BOL.

If they could do without... then why would people even bother starting up a topic about fixing it. Might as well have started a topic going like "Scrap Templars and give us a Class Change".
As someone who actually uses those skills the 1 negative doesn't outweigh the 6 positives.

As i said before... they only talked about the bug fixes, not about further changes.
For the people who only read the changes, and not the rest:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!

- "An Update on some of the Abilities", aka "We have begun discussing this and already have a few small thing. Still not everything, which might come at a later date, but we didn't want to let everyone wait to long".
- "Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions", aka "Don't Start jumping to conclusions... we have only started addressing the actual bugs in the game. we still have to address the way certain skills work, but we have to start with the biggest problems[/i]".

She tries to give us some long awaited information regarding changes... yet the only thing people do now is attack her for it.
With people like this: She tries to g

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

I'm more surprised that they don't lift the "F*ck You, Ungrateful #ssholes" flag and drill Templars completely into the ground.
(If i could do it i would make a special patch for people like that... you might guess the changes in that patch)

What is convenient about a bug that was implemented in 1.6 and made our skill weaker?

AriBoh · April 2015

Dudes, solar flare/sun fire speeds were not a bug they were design choices and they have said they are looking to increase them. So its a small sample but they are listening now at least to our class criticism. We just need to keep poking the bear.

Mantic0r3 · April 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Edit: As a side note, I find the fact that people refer to this skill as "breath of life" under the assumption that nobody in their right mind would ever take "honor the dead" a separate, albeit still a legitimate, problem.

nor sure about the other people but since honor the dead doesnt have this issue its not necessary to talk about it^^

but you are right with 1.5 it was the worse morph now its just plain useless

Garion · April 2015

ZOS logic... a skill is broken, fix it by making the problem a "feature". GG ZOS!

themdogesbite · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!
Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

Wait what? Something is not working properly and you "adress" it by nerfing the skill? Im not even suprised anymore guys..

Fizzlewizzle · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

A bug is a bug. If it wasn't there before 1.6 or if it was doesn't matter. Atm it is a bug, which is convenient for the Templars.
That they might change it from a bug to a feature is their choice, and nothing we say can change that.
We only got a little bit of info as it is, yet everyone jumps to conclusions. I'd say wait for the changes before jumping the gun.

(And what was the insult... People get the update they ask for and all they do is complain. Where is the Thank you ZOS?)

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefulness of templars outside of BOL.

If they could do without... then why would people even bother starting up a topic about fixing it. Might as well have started a topic going like "Scrap Templars and give us a Class Change".
As someone who actually uses those skills the 1 negative doesn't outweigh the 6 positives.

As i said before... they only talked about the bug fixes, not about further changes.
For the people who only read the changes, and not the rest:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!

- "An Update on some of the Abilities", aka "We have begun discussing this and already have a few small thing. Still not everything, which might come at a later date, but we didn't want to let everyone wait to long".
- "Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions", aka "Don't Start jumping to conclusions... we have only started addressing the actual bugs in the game. we still have to address the way certain skills work, but we have to start with the biggest problems[/i]".

She tries to give us some long awaited information regarding changes... yet the only thing people do now is attack her for it.
With people like this: She tries to g

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

I'm more surprised that they don't lift the "F*ck You, Ungrateful #ssholes" flag and drill Templars completely into the ground.
(If i could do it i would make a special patch for people like that... you might guess the changes in that patch)

What is convenient about a bug that was implemented in 1.6 and made our skill weaker?

"A Bug that was Implemented". You make it sound like they are intentionally putting bugs in the code to make Templars worse.
Depending on the intention two things can be the bug: Did they want to increase the casting time, yes? Then the bug is that it is still instant, although the effect is delayed. Did they wanted to keep it instant, yes? Then the bug is that there is a delay.
Since they let us know that they plan to increase the casting time i can only assume the former over the later.

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

A bug is a bug. If it wasn't there before 1.6 or if it was doesn't matter. Atm it is a bug, which is convenient for the Templars.
That they might change it from a bug to a feature is their choice, and nothing we say can change that.
We only got a little bit of info as it is, yet everyone jumps to conclusions. I'd say wait for the changes before jumping the gun.

(And what was the insult... People get the update they ask for and all they do is complain. Where is the Thank you ZOS?)

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefulness of templars outside of BOL.

If they could do without... then why would people even bother starting up a topic about fixing it. Might as well have started a topic going like "Scrap Templars and give us a Class Change".
As someone who actually uses those skills the 1 negative doesn't outweigh the 6 positives.

As i said before... they only talked about the bug fixes, not about further changes.
For the people who only read the changes, and not the rest:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!

- "An Update on some of the Abilities", aka "We have begun discussing this and already have a few small thing. Still not everything, which might come at a later date, but we didn't want to let everyone wait to long".
- "Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions", aka "Don't Start jumping to conclusions... we have only started addressing the actual bugs in the game. we still have to address the way certain skills work, but we have to start with the biggest problems[/i]".

She tries to give us some long awaited information regarding changes... yet the only thing people do now is attack her for it.
With people like this: She tries to g

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

I'm more surprised that they don't lift the "F*ck You, Ungrateful #ssholes" flag and drill Templars completely into the ground.
(If i could do it i would make a special patch for people like that... you might guess the changes in that patch)

You read "Update of some abilities" wrong. She is clearly talking about updating us with what they have written here and where they are with it. Not some other ones. Them trying to focus on only the abilities that are bugged does not mean that they are also planning other changes. She's just saying they are going to ignore the comments about design decisions more or less.

Sorry, but all it boils down to is she is acknowledging some of the bugs. There is nothing really pointing to any design changes being planned that may ore may not be positive. In stead, just one of the bug fixes kind of implies that it is bugged in the opposite direction of what most of us hope, and its a doozy.

EDIT: And nobody is trying to attack her for it. We have concerns and rightfully so.

Let me answer with another quote:

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Dudes, solar flare/sun fire speeds were not a bug they were design choices and they have said they are looking to increase them. So its a small sample but they are listening now at least to our class criticism. We just need to keep poking the bear.

They are indeed looking at other skills. Flight time of a skill would be a mistake rather than a bug, meaning they actually listen to our criticism. They "Tried to focus on bugs", but as you can see with this skill bugs aren't their only concern.
(and, although you might not have been someone who went into the offence against Gina... others were.)

technohic · April 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

A bug is a bug. If it wasn't there before 1.6 or if it was doesn't matter. Atm it is a bug, which is convenient for the Templars.
That they might change it from a bug to a feature is their choice, and nothing we say can change that.
We only got a little bit of info as it is, yet everyone jumps to conclusions. I'd say wait for the changes before jumping the gun.

(And what was the insult... People get the update they ask for and all they do is complain. Where is the Thank you ZOS?)

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefulness of templars outside of BOL.

If they could do without... then why would people even bother starting up a topic about fixing it. Might as well have started a topic going like "Scrap Templars and give us a Class Change".
As someone who actually uses those skills the 1 negative doesn't outweigh the 6 positives.

As i said before... they only talked about the bug fixes, not about further changes.
For the people who only read the changes, and not the rest:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!

- "An Update on some of the Abilities", aka "We have begun discussing this and already have a few small thing. Still not everything, which might come at a later date, but we didn't want to let everyone wait to long".
- "Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions", aka "Don't Start jumping to conclusions... we have only started addressing the actual bugs in the game. we still have to address the way certain skills work, but we have to start with the biggest problems[/i]".

She tries to give us some long awaited information regarding changes... yet the only thing people do now is attack her for it.
With people like this: She tries to g

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

I'm more surprised that they don't lift the "F*ck You, Ungrateful #ssholes" flag and drill Templars completely into the ground.
(If i could do it i would make a special patch for people like that... you might guess the changes in that patch)

What is convenient about a bug that was implemented in 1.6 and made our skill weaker?

"A Bug that was Implemented". You make it sound like they are intentionally putting bugs in the code to make Templars worse.
Depending on the intention two things can be the bug: Did they want to increase the casting time, yes? Then the bug is that it is still instant, although the effect is delayed. Did they wanted to keep it instant, yes? Then the bug is that there is a delay.
Since they let us know that they plan to increase the casting time i can only assume the former over the later.

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

A bug is a bug. If it wasn't there before 1.6 or if it was doesn't matter. Atm it is a bug, which is convenient for the Templars.
That they might change it from a bug to a feature is their choice, and nothing we say can change that.
We only got a little bit of info as it is, yet everyone jumps to conclusions. I'd say wait for the changes before jumping the gun.

(And what was the insult... People get the update they ask for and all they do is complain. Where is the Thank you ZOS?)

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefulness of templars outside of BOL.

If they could do without... then why would people even bother starting up a topic about fixing it. Might as well have started a topic going like "Scrap Templars and give us a Class Change".
As someone who actually uses those skills the 1 negative doesn't outweigh the 6 positives.

As i said before... they only talked about the bug fixes, not about further changes.
For the people who only read the changes, and not the rest:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!

- "An Update on some of the Abilities", aka "We have begun discussing this and already have a few small thing. Still not everything, which might come at a later date, but we didn't want to let everyone wait to long".
- "Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions", aka "Don't Start jumping to conclusions... we have only started addressing the actual bugs in the game. we still have to address the way certain skills work, but we have to start with the biggest problems[/i]".

She tries to give us some long awaited information regarding changes... yet the only thing people do now is attack her for it.
With people like this: She tries to g

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

I'm more surprised that they don't lift the "F*ck You, Ungrateful #ssholes" flag and drill Templars completely into the ground.
(If i could do it i would make a special patch for people like that... you might guess the changes in that patch)

You read "Update of some abilities" wrong. She is clearly talking about updating us with what they have written here and where they are with it. Not some other ones. Them trying to focus on only the abilities that are bugged does not mean that they are also planning other changes. She's just saying they are going to ignore the comments about design decisions more or less.

Sorry, but all it boils down to is she is acknowledging some of the bugs. There is nothing really pointing to any design changes being planned that may ore may not be positive. In stead, just one of the bug fixes kind of implies that it is bugged in the opposite direction of what most of us hope, and its a doozy.

EDIT: And nobody is trying to attack her for it. We have concerns and rightfully so.

Let me answer with another quote:

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Dudes, solar flare/sun fire speeds were not a bug they were design choices and they have said they are looking to increase them. So its a small sample but they are listening now at least to our class criticism. We just need to keep poking the bear.

They are indeed looking at other skills. Flight time of a skill would be a mistake rather than a bug, meaning they actually listen to our criticism. They "Tried to focus on bugs", but as you can see with this skill bugs aren't their only concern.
(and, although you might not have been someone who went into the offence against Gina... others were.)

Well, we will see then, but it doesn't hurt to tell them how in the current form, increasing cast time on BOL would be a terrible idea.

Soris · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

Are you mad? What logic would that be?

david.kinnaneb14_ESO · April 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

A bug is a bug. If it wasn't there before 1.6 or if it was doesn't matter. Atm it is a bug, which is convenient for the Templars.
That they might change it from a bug to a feature is their choice, and nothing we say can change that.
We only got a little bit of info as it is, yet everyone jumps to conclusions. I'd say wait for the changes before jumping the gun.

(And what was the insult... People get the update they ask for and all they do is complain. Where is the Thank you ZOS?)

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefulness of templars outside of BOL.

If they could do without... then why would people even bother starting up a topic about fixing it. Might as well have started a topic going like "Scrap Templars and give us a Class Change".
As someone who actually uses those skills the 1 negative doesn't outweigh the 6 positives.

As i said before... they only talked about the bug fixes, not about further changes.
For the people who only read the changes, and not the rest:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!

- "An Update on some of the Abilities", aka "We have begun discussing this and already have a few small thing. Still not everything, which might come at a later date, but we didn't want to let everyone wait to long".
- "Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions", aka "Don't Start jumping to conclusions... we have only started addressing the actual bugs in the game. we still have to address the way certain skills work, but we have to start with the biggest problems[/i]".

She tries to give us some long awaited information regarding changes... yet the only thing people do now is attack her for it.
With people like this: She tries to g

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

I'm more surprised that they don't lift the "F*ck You, Ungrateful #ssholes" flag and drill Templars completely into the ground.
(If i could do it i would make a special patch for people like that... you might guess the changes in that patch)

I think you got that a bit backwards, bub. I've been a paying customer for a year now and it is not outside of the realm of reason to expect quality for the products that I've been paying for. If anyone should be grateful, it should be ZOS for having people like me that have been willing to put up with such shoddy design and development. Now that giving them money is optional, if the product is not up to par, there wont be any cash flow from me, that's for sure. For a year now, there has yet to be a single update, not one, that didn't break something or introduce new bugs. Now they want to break templars? I have to ask myself, what is the point of continued support if they're going to completely upheave how my main toon has been played for a year? "Play how you want" lolz...

Garion · April 2015

Soris_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

Are you mad? What logic would that be?

ZOS logic!

pkb16_ESO2 · April 2015

Man that stuff is hard. We get the broken skills fixed... nobody knows when, but in one of the next updates Bol will get an increased casttime... cant believe it. It sucks balls. This threat was better without ZOS respond:(

and @Fizzlewizzle u really just talking ***

skarvika · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

Just get rid of the whole Restoring Light skill line. It's just a tease at this point.

Nobody uses Healing Ritual because of the cast time...so why not also give a cast time to a skill that heals for less than HR does?
This wouldn't be as much of a slap in the face if it were coupled with "We're getting rid of the cast time for Healing Ritual" but having both skills with cast time makes healing completely pointless.
Ugh.......

grimsfield · April 2015

edit: misread previous comment

grimsfield · April 2015

.

Fizzlewizzle · April 2015

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

A bug is a bug. If it wasn't there before 1.6 or if it was doesn't matter. Atm it is a bug, which is convenient for the Templars.
That they might change it from a bug to a feature is their choice, and nothing we say can change that.
We only got a little bit of info as it is, yet everyone jumps to conclusions. I'd say wait for the changes before jumping the gun.

(And what was the insult... People get the update they ask for and all they do is complain. Where is the Thank you ZOS?)

technohic wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefulness of templars outside of BOL.

If they could do without... then why would people even bother starting up a topic about fixing it. Might as well have started a topic going like "Scrap Templars and give us a Class Change".
As someone who actually uses those skills the 1 negative doesn't outweigh the 6 positives.

As i said before... they only talked about the bug fixes, not about further changes.
For the people who only read the changes, and not the rest:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!

- "An Update on some of the Abilities", aka "We have begun discussing this and already have a few small thing. Still not everything, which might come at a later date, but we didn't want to let everyone wait to long".
- "Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions", aka "Don't Start jumping to conclusions... we have only started addressing the actual bugs in the game. we still have to address the way certain skills work, but we have to start with the biggest problems[/i]".

She tries to give us some long awaited information regarding changes... yet the only thing people do now is attack her for it.
With people like this: She tries to g

david.kinnaneb14_ESO wrote: »

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

I'm more surprised that they don't lift the "F*ck You, Ungrateful #ssholes" flag and drill Templars completely into the ground.
(If i could do it i would make a special patch for people like that... you might guess the changes in that patch)

I think you got that a bit backwards, bub. I've been a paying customer for a year now and it is not outside of the realm of reason to expect quality for the products that I've been paying for. If anyone should be grateful, it should be ZOS for having people like me that have been willing to put up with such shoddy design and development. Now that giving them money is optional, if the product is not up to par, there wont be any cash flow from me, that's for sure. For a year now, there has yet to be a single update, not one, that didn't break something or introduce new bugs. Now they want to break templars? I have to ask myself, what is the point of continued support if they're going to completely upheave how my main toon has been played for a year? "Play how you want" lolz...

Nope... don't have it backwards.
Both you and i have been paying customers... just like a lot of other people. We pay for the use of the game (and servers), not so we can decide what will be the content of the game.
When you bought the game you had a small period (i believe it was 10 or 20 days when i bought it) in which you could ask for a refund if you didn't like the game. As you did not use the option you basically agreed with the content you get.

That they update the game is so they can make further money from their investment. Nowhere is written that they have to implement whatever you (or anyone else) wants in the game. If that were the case it would be an absolute hell.
Everyone wants to slaughter every other player and be the supreme ruler of Tamriel. How you think that works out? Its not a pay to win game, so its not like paying should give you an advantage or force ZOS to do your biddings.
If they want to can drop the bomb on all classes and let the game die. Its their game.

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Man that stuff is hard. We get the broken skills fixed... nobody knows when, but in one of the next updates Bol will get an increased casttime... cant believe it. It sucks balls. This threat was better without ZOS respond:(

and @Fizzlewizzle u really just talking ***

I speak nothing but the truth.
Just read... everyone wants to hear something, jet complain when words are spoken.
If you can't handle the truth, then don't ask for it.
If you point out mistakes, be prepared that they find something broken yet convenient and fix that too.

Just be grateful that this is a Templar controlled topic. You think any complaint made in a DK, Sorcerer or NB controlled topic would be so generous as what you get here? They would only talk about "nerfing" or destroying BoL, not about fixing the other stuff.

pkb16_ESO2 · April 2015

[/quote]
I speak nothing but the truth.
Just read... everyone wants to hear something, jet complain when words are spoken.
If you can't handle the truth, then don't ask for it.
If you point out mistakes, be prepared that they find something broken yet convenient and fix that too.

Just be grateful that this is a Templar controlled topic. You think any complaint made in a DK, Sorcerer or NB controlled topic would be so generous as what you get here? They would only talk about "nerfing" or destroying BoL, not about fixing the other stuff.[/quote]

hmm ok thinking about it... No..no u still talking ***...

Soris · April 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Nope... don't have it backwards.
Both you and i have been paying customers... just like a lot of other people. We pay for the use of the game (and servers), not so we can decide what will be the content of the game.
When you bought the game you had a small period (i believe it was 10 or 20 days when i bought it) in which you could ask for a refund if you didn't like the game. As you did not use the option you basically agreed with the content you get.

That they update the game is so they can make further money from their investment. Nowhere is written that they have to implement whatever you (or anyone else) wants in the game. If that were the case it would be an absolute hell.
Everyone wants to slaughter every other player and be the supreme ruler of Tamriel. How you think that works out? Its not a pay to win game, so its not like paying should give you an advantage or force ZOS to do your biddings.
If they want to can drop the bomb on all classes and let the game die. Its their game.

Man it's not a regular business, it's gaming industry. We pay not to use of the game but play the game and enjoy it. So you should please your customers by listening their ideas and shape the game around those ideas of majority if they are constructive. Most of the non AAA company doing this in some way. Sure they don't have to, but it's normal and common thing nowadays. And asking this from devs is also absolutely normal.
Thank god you don't make games.

edit: typo

bellanca6561n · April 2015

Jaerlach wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Well...yeah, Templars are the best healers.

And the problem is?

Damn it, damn it, damn it, I KNEW clicking on this topic was a terrible idea.....

*takes a deep breath*

Let me put it less argumentatively. In my ever so personal opinion, class versatility in games in general has gone too far.

I think that's a fine point for games in general, but since this game only has 4 classes, and its design vision included all 4 classes being able to fill every role, monopoly creation is a bad idea.

Its ok for classes to be innately better at things - DK tanks are certainly given more tools than Sorceror tanks - but the reality is that you can still tank every piece of content in the game on a sorceror. You can also DPS any content in the game as any of the 4 classes, in magicka or stamina spec.

The thing you cannot do is heal any content in the game. Its the anomaly.

Excellent points, thoughtfully made. I see them and they're compelling.

I guess the thing with Templars is the anomaly you note. It is the only class with a skill tree dedicated to healing. It doesn't mean you can't without it, but it makes it easier.

You don't diminish a skill line to make everyone equal. From an engineering standpoint it's a valid approach to creating balance. But from a CRM point of view it's the evil of two lessers. Rebalancing is nearly always unpopular unless the imbalance is extreme.

But what really got me was that Breath of Life sometimes fires right away. Sometimes it doesn't. The people noting this are not voting for the sometimes-it-doesn't side. You're not fixing it by making the unwanted outcome the standard outcome.

That's why I think it was either a misstatement or the communications equivalent of putting out a fire with butane.

I'd prefer the former

Natjur · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

If they nerf Breath of Life (any heal with a casting time is useless), just give me a token to convert my templar into a DK and I will be fine. None of their skills have Global cool downs.

skarvika · April 2015

grimsfield wrote: »

edit: misread previous comment

Natjur wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

If they nerf Breath of Life (any heal with a casting time is useless), just give me a token to convert my templar into a DK and I will be fine. None of their skills have Global cool downs.

Agree. I've played just about every aspect of the templar. Aedric Spear is now a pointless skill line. Dawn's Wrath was originally a pointless skill line, so they gave us Radiant Destruction. Radiant Destruction got nerfed and now hits for diddly and Dawn's Wrath is once again a pointless skill line. Now we learn that soon Restoring Light will be a pointless skill line too.
Fix templars, give us a class change option or bust. No wonder this game dropped subs, by Oblivion, if you make people's characters that they spend so much time and effort on useless, they'll get frustrated and discouraged and leave.

Curragraigue · April 2015

You can not be serious with this ZOS. Templars do not need a cast time on BoL. The other classes go hysterical when one skill is not working Templars constantly have a list of skills that are bugged, unusable or uncompetitive and you want to add another problem skill to it.

Templars need a bread and butter instant cast skill that does immediate burst damage just like all of the other classes, they need a competitive in terms of DPS skill (the channelled skill jabs does not fit the bill and the free cc immunity for other players has taken this skill off of most Temps PvP bars) and they need to either be a support/controller class with the other classes getting their own burst heals skills like DKs or they need to be the best group healing class in the game in which case don't mess with BoL return it to an instant cast burst heal for a group.

grimsfield · April 2015

Natjur wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

If they nerf Breath of Life (any heal with a casting time is useless), just give me a token to convert my templar into a DK and I will be fine. None of their skills have Global cool downs.

If they increase the cast time of breath of Life, it will just give me more time to play the Witcher next month since I won't be playing this game anyomore.

Gina, if you're out there and this described upcoming nerf to BoL is erroneous. You really need to speak up soon before moods deteriorate further. A lot of people who play temp healers are going to be very angry.

AriBoh · April 2015

Puncturing Strikes: We’re seeing reports that this ability is giving a 4 second CC immunity to every target it hits, regardless if they are hit by the knockback. We’re currently investigating to see if this is a bug or working as intended, and will let you know when we have an answer.

@ZOS_GinaBruno has there been internal discussion about removing the cc or changing it with a root/snare?

glak · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

Puncturing Strikes: We’re seeing reports that this ability is giving a 4 second CC immunity to every target it hits, regardless if they are hit by the knockback. We’re currently investigating to see if this is a bug or working as intended, and will let you know when we have an answer.

Breath of Life: Did you mean decrease the consistent delay or go with the delay as an added cast time?
Puncturing Strikes: Please just replace the knock back with a conal root and be done with it. Looks like the direction you were going in anyway.

glak · April 2015

skarvika wrote: »

grimsfield wrote: »

edit: misread previous comment

Natjur wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

If they nerf Breath of Life (any heal with a casting time is useless), just give me a token to convert my templar into a DK and I will be fine. None of their skills have Global cool downs.

Agree. I've played just about every aspect of the templar. Aedric Spear is now a pointless skill line. Dawn's Wrath was originally a pointless skill line, so they gave us Radiant Destruction. Radiant Destruction got nerfed and now hits for diddly and Dawn's Wrath is once again a pointless skill line. Now we learn that soon Restoring Light will be a pointless skill line too.
Fix templars, give us a class change option or bust. No wonder this game dropped subs, by Oblivion, if you make people's characters that they spend so much time and effort on useless, they'll get frustrated and discouraged and leave.

This. Templar characters would nearly disappear overnight if allowed a class change.

Natjur · April 2015

glak wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

grimsfield wrote: »

edit: misread previous comment

Natjur wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

If they nerf Breath of Life (any heal with a casting time is useless), just give me a token to convert my templar into a DK and I will be fine. None of their skills have Global cool downs.

Agree. I've played just about every aspect of the templar. Aedric Spear is now a pointless skill line. Dawn's Wrath was originally a pointless skill line, so they gave us Radiant Destruction. Radiant Destruction got nerfed and now hits for diddly and Dawn's Wrath is once again a pointless skill line. Now we learn that soon Restoring Light will be a pointless skill line too.
Fix templars, give us a class change option or bust. No wonder this game dropped subs, by Oblivion, if you make people's characters that they spend so much time and effort on useless, they'll get frustrated and discouraged and leave.

This. Templar characters would nearly disappear overnight if allowed a class change.

My main is an Argonian Templar. Both the race and the class was nerfed. If they allowed class change tokens and race change tokens, there would be no templars and no Argonian's in the game.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!
Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you please clarify in further detail what you mean by this? It is rather confusing as written and can lead to non-constructive speculation and distress.

Does increasing the cast time mean changing the entire ability from an instant cast skill to a skill with an x.x second cast time or do you mean you are going to increase the time it takes for animation to complete to be consistent with the delay?

If a pre-skill cast time is added to the skill, how does this address the delay?

This skill did NOT have a delay prior to 1.6. What issues get in the way of just reverting this skill to the way it operated in 1.5?