Templar Skills Bugged/made useless - IGNORED

Dagoth_Rac · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

I don't heal, but isn't Breath of Life the only instant burst heal in the game? Won't adding a cast time just turn it into Healing Ritual, which no one uses precisely because it has a cast time?

technohic · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Why is nobody freaking out that they just said they are going to add a cast time to breath of life?

@ZOS_GinaBruno if you could clarify, you agree there is a skill delay with breath of life, and the solution is to add a cast time to the spell? Or am I misunderstanding? Or is the idea that since you guys for balance planned to add a cast time regardless that is the solution? A cast time on breath of life is.... yikes.

Yeah, that will end the Templar in PvP as at that point, you may as well just spam healing springs.

Looking on the bright side, I could then start demanding better DPS and improved shields and an escape and resource management for the class and then tell people if they want heals, spec it themselves cause no reason Templars should be any more.

timidobserver · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!
Focused Charge: This ability has a GCD that locks you out of any action for 1-2 seconds after each use. We are aware this is happening, and are working on a fix.

Eclipse: After a successful spell reflect, you are unable to use any abilities for a few seconds. We are aware this is happening, and are working on a fix.

Solar Barrage: This ability grants empower, but does not apply to AoEs. It turns out that the bonus damage wasn’t applying to itself, and we’re currently testing a fix for this.

Sun Fire and Solar Flare: The travel speed of these projectiles is noticeably slower than other casted-projectile spells (such as Crystal Frags). We plan on increasing the travel speed for these projectiles in a future update.

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

Puncturing Strikes: We’re seeing reports that this ability is giving a 4 second CC immunity to every target it hits, regardless if they are hit by the knockback. We’re currently investigating to see if this is a bug or working as intended, and will let you know when we have an answer.

Care to explain why BOL is being nerfed further? Is this another pvp driven nerf?

Ley · April 2015

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Edit - Focused charge is also prone to getting stuck in the running animation for up to 20 seconds, a record for the longest CC in the game!

This happens to me about once an hour and usually gets me killed. Highly annoying.

technohic · April 2015

Ley wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Edit - Focused charge is also prone to getting stuck in the running animation for up to 20 seconds, a record for the longest CC in the game!

This happens to me about once an hour and usually gets me killed. Highly annoying.

Try it in PvP. You wind up with a 50/50 chance of it happening in large fights.

bellanca6561n · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Why is nobody freaking out that they just said they are going to add a cast time to breath of life?

@ZOS_GinaBruno if you could clarify, you agree there is a skill delay with breath of life, and the solution is to add a cast time to the spell? Or am I misunderstanding? Or is the idea that since you guys for balance planned to add a cast time regardless that is the solution? A cast time on breath of life is.... yikes.

Sorry, I simply failed to notice that....it has to be a misstatement. Nobody says they're going to fix you limp by breaking your other leg.

Huntler · April 2015

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Why is nobody freaking out that they just said they are going to add a cast time to breath of life?

@ZOS_GinaBruno if you could clarify, you agree there is a skill delay with breath of life, and the solution is to add a cast time to the spell? Or am I misunderstanding? Or is the idea that since you guys for balance planned to add a cast time regardless that is the solution? A cast time on breath of life is.... yikes.

Sorry, I simply failed to notice that....it has to be a misstatement. Nobody says they're going to fix you limp by breaking your other leg.

God I hope so....

Jaerlach · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

If they feel BOL is currently balanced, the right thing to do is make the cast take as long as the lockout currently does, as it would play better and have the same result.

BOL is kind of a problem as far as making other classes viable healers, so making it better is not actually a desirable game balance move.

My read of her post is that their intention is to make BOL look like it takes as long as it currently takes, as opposed to removing the delay and allowing you to spam cast breath faster than you can right now, which would make the best healing ability in the game even stronger.

Huntler · April 2015

Jaerlach wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

If they feel BOL is currently balanced, the right thing to do is make the cast take as long as the lockout currently does, as it would play better and have the same result.

BOL is kind of a problem as far as making other classes viable healers, so making it better is not actually a desirable game balance move.

My read of her post is that their intention is to make BOL look like it takes as long as it currently takes, as opposed to removing the delay and allowing you to spam cast breath faster than you can right now, which would make the best healing ability in the game even stronger.

But it used to cast that fast and they felt it was balanced.... before 1.6 there was no skill delay. In addition, adding a cast time makes it interrupt-able... the new animation is what caused the problem so what changed with BOL that they think they delay or cast time or whatever you want to call it, is necessary?

Observant · April 2015

Any sort of cast time on BOL would cripple my entire build.
The skill is literally for those "OH S*&#T" moments, where a cast time is just not feasible. Especially with the Time to Kill lately.

Edit:

ZOS still isn't comprehending the Toppling Charge issue. You get stuck in an animation, it has zero to do with the cool down (Unless you mean Animation cooldown?). The cool down is fine, when the skill works. The issue is that you get stuck in the animation randomly for 5-10 seconds.

AriBoh · April 2015

Its problaly a mistake, they've done it once this week already and this isn't an official patch note thats checked twice.

technohic · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

If they feel BOL is currently balanced, the right thing to do is make the cast take as long as the lockout currently does, as it would play better and have the same result.

BOL is kind of a problem as far as making other classes viable healers, so making it better is not actually a desirable game balance move.

My read of her post is that their intention is to make BOL look like it takes as long as it currently takes, as opposed to removing the delay and allowing you to spam cast breath faster than you can right now, which would make the best healing ability in the game even stronger.

But it used to cast that fast and they felt it was balanced.... before 1.6 there was no skill delay. In addition, adding a cast time makes it interrupt-able... the new animation is what caused the problem so what changed with BOL that they think they delay or cast time or whatever you want to call it, is necessary?

I'm afraid the delay might actually be part of the animation of the cast that didn't quite make it in the game yet. Question would then be, is that all the longer the cast is going to be, or is it going to be longer than just the animation change that is there now.

Jaerlach · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

If they feel BOL is currently balanced, the right thing to do is make the cast take as long as the lockout currently does, as it would play better and have the same result.

BOL is kind of a problem as far as making other classes viable healers, so making it better is not actually a desirable game balance move.

My read of her post is that their intention is to make BOL look like it takes as long as it currently takes, as opposed to removing the delay and allowing you to spam cast breath faster than you can right now, which would make the best healing ability in the game even stronger.

But it used to cast that fast and they felt it was balanced.... before 1.6 there was no skill delay. In addition, adding a cast time makes it interrupt-able... the new animation is what caused the problem so what changed with BOL that they think they delay or cast time or whatever you want to call it, is necessary?

Listen, I love BOL as much as the next guy, its by far the best burst heal in the game and its extremely effective.

However, it also means Templars have a mortal lock on all healing duties in trials and are substantially better at healing parties than any other class in PVP. I can easily see why the development team could regard this as less than ideal. I was not surprised to see BOL nerfed relative to other heals in 1.6, which it was, as its efficient, burst smart heal over long-range prevents all 3 other classes from being able to heal any trials boss with a mechanic that forces spreading out and makes healing most content dramatically easier.

I don't think BOL needs to be nerfed even further than it is now, and I would not support a change that added interruptibility to the spell, but making the instant cast animation take longer, so your character is animating for the entire period you currently cannot act would keep balance identical and make playing the spell more intuitive. If they believe BOL as it is is balanced but should not be improved, that is the path to take. Simply removing that delay makes BOL even stronger than other heals, and it's already so much stronger that Templar healers have a lock for 2-3 positions in every Trial party due to boss mechanics that require spread out parties who need burst healing (eg Mantikora, Ra'toku, The Mage, etc).

Huntler · April 2015

You don't make other healers viable by making templar healers worse. The reason templar healers have it on lock is because a burst heal is necessary. Create burst heal possibilities for other healers, don't remove it from the one who has it. That is horrible balancing.

leeux · April 2015

But Templars are *the* Healing class... they have a full skill line dedicated to healing, thus they *should* be the best healers. If that changes, then remove the healing line from the class and give us other useful utilities to replace it.

The argument that 'other classes' cannot compete with BoL is moot, because other classes do not have a skill line dedicated to healing.

Jaerlach · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

You don't make other healers viable by making templar healers worse. The reason templar healers have it on lock is because a burst heal is necessary. Create burst heal possibilities for other healers, don't remove it from the one who has it. That is horrible balancing.

Again, my suggestion is not that they remove BOL's ability, but maintain the ability exactly the way it is right now, along with making the instant cast animation take longer, so that the character is visibly acting for the current 'lock out' period.

All that does is make the ability perform exactly the way it does now while having that performance be more intuitive.

I do not suggest, nor support, any interruptibility, cast time or other nerf to BOL.

bellanca6561n · April 2015

Well...yeah, Templars are the best healers.

And the problem is?

Damn it, damn it, damn it, I KNEW clicking on this topic was a terrible idea.....

*takes a deep breath*

Let me put it less argumentatively. In my ever so personal opinion, class versatility in games in general has gone too far.

Jaerlach · April 2015

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Well...yeah, Templars are the best healers.

And the problem is?

Damn it, damn it, damn it, I KNEW clicking on this topic was a terrible idea.....

*takes a deep breath*

Let me put it less argumentatively. In my ever so personal opinion, class versatility in games in general has gone too far.

I think that's a fine point for games in general, but since this game only has 4 classes, and its design vision included all 4 classes being able to fill every role, monopoly creation is a bad idea.

Its ok for classes to be innately better at things - DK tanks are certainly given more tools than Sorceror tanks - but the reality is that you can still tank every piece of content in the game on a sorceror. You can also DPS any content in the game as any of the 4 classes, in magicka or stamina spec.

The thing you cannot do is heal any content in the game. Its the anomaly.

Huntler · April 2015

Jaerlach wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

You don't make other healers viable by making templar healers worse. The reason templar healers have it on lock is because a burst heal is necessary. Create burst heal possibilities for other healers, don't remove it from the one who has it. That is horrible balancing.

Again, my suggestion is not that they remove BOL's ability, but maintain the ability exactly the way it is right now, along with making the instant cast animation take longer, so that the character is visibly acting for the current 'lock out' period.

All that does is make the ability perform exactly the way it does now while having that performance be more intuitive.

I do not suggest, nor support, any interruptibility, cast time or other nerf to BOL.

You do realize that it used to be instant.... before 1.6.... it was fine, if there were balance concerns I sure as heck haven't heard them. I agree, they should maintain the way it was originally implemented... WITHOUT a delay.

technohic · April 2015

Jaerlach wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Well...yeah, Templars are the best healers.

And the problem is?

Damn it, damn it, damn it, I KNEW clicking on this topic was a terrible idea.....

*takes a deep breath*

Let me put it less argumentatively. In my ever so personal opinion, class versatility in games in general has gone too far.

I think that's a fine point for games in general, but since this game only has 4 classes, and its design vision included all 4 classes being able to fill every role, monopoly creation is a bad idea.

Its ok for classes to be innately better at things - DK tanks are certainly given more tools than Sorceror tanks - but the reality is that you can still tank every piece of content in the game on a sorceror. You can also DPS any content in the game as any of the 4 classes, in magicka or stamina spec.

The thing you cannot do is heal any content in the game. Its the anomaly.

I disagree on your sense of balance. BOL is the biggest burst heal in the game and that does make ups better healers situtionally, but that might quite possibly be the ONLY thing we have over anyone else. Nerfing it does not make other classes able to suddenly burst heal in an oh-*** moment; and we certainly lack the defense abilities and/or escapes of the other classes. Our CCs are pretty lack luster as well.

Mantic0r3 · April 2015

So lets be clear about one thing, if you add a cast time to breath of life you just killed heal templars.

Naivefanboi · April 2015

my favorite issue with my templar main right now is not being able to be healed back to full health....oh you healing and escaping too well? here have 25% less hp, not like you made a build with just the right amount of resources or anything.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

grimsfield · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

DON'T YOU DARE. LEAVE THIS SKILL ALONE.

If you are going to do something to the skill, REMOVE THE DELAY. Don't increase the cast time.

Nibelaja · April 2015

Yeah, there ist a delay in breath of life, so you want to fix it with a casttime? o.O
That will be a hell of fun...

Fizzlewizzle · April 2015

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Huntler · April 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

Convenient bug? What bug? Before 1.6 BOL was instant cast with no animation delay. 1.6 introduced the delay... THAT is the bug. Did you even read the thread or understand what is going on at all? And Gina quoted literally said that they were increasing the cast time to BOL which is an instant cast spell... its pretty logical to conclude that that means its getting a cast time unless she made a mistake. Even a half second cast time is a big deal, cast times mean interrupts. Cast times mean it doesn't work in laggy situations because all abilities with a cast time bug out and get stuck in PvP lag. Cast time, even a half second, makes healing ritual better point for point of healing amount to magicka ratio.

Next time before you go insulting people without having an understanding of how something works and its implications... you just insult yourself.

In essence they are doing what I joke about at work.... turning a bug into a "feature"

technohic · April 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm really curious how some of those changes will work out.
There is little left to kill when it comes to Templars... So i'm not really that worried.

They only thing they spoke about were the bugs. Not actual Design flaws or numeral changes. There might be further changes (not named it the list with bugged skill) that are still unknown.
The BoL change might come like a sledgehammer as it is one of the few skills Templars still rely upon, but a bug is a bug... even if we love it.

I personally don't get why people start jumping so much about it. From my personal experience the time between casting and the actual effect is less than half a second, which would mean (from my understanding) that the casting time will also be less than half a second. NOWHERE in the list @ZOS_GinaBruno is written that it gets a cast time of a set amount. People screaming that we won't need a second Healing Ritual are just jumping to conclusions of the get-go.

FIRST you should look at that you are getting.
THEN you may applaud or complain.

Now you're all just being ungrateful ***.
There are 7 skills on the current list which will get a fix, and those are only the skills with bugs. Yet all you see is one convenient bug that you want to keep and you all go crazy over that.
You finally got the bug fixes you wanted... and one of those is something you liked. Though luck.
6 positives vs 1 negative is an improvement, not a death sentence.

As if all are equal. If they are intending on increasing the cast time (IE more than what we see now) then that nerf to our staple far outweighs fixing things that you can go without using.

I guess the question becomes "what abilities can Templars not do without?" To me, it would be BOL and purifying ritual. All the others, I feel I could pretty much get as good or better from somewhere else available to every class,or could just plain do without. You can actually debate on whether purge would be better than purifying ritual even. since people don't have to hit X.

So maybe this would be better for a thread not about Templar bugs, but to question the usefullnes of templars outside of BOL.

Mantic0r3 · April 2015

BoL in its 1.5 form (without delay and instant) is the only skill that makes templars ON PAR with other healers, since for some reason they decided to nerf everything else (templar heal wise) to the ground with 1.6

david.kinnaneb14_ESO · April 2015

dont worry, zos will fix it till its broken.

CP5 · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As promised, here is an update for some of the abilities that were called out. Keep in mind we tried to focus only on abilities that appeared to be bugged, and not actual design decisions. We know some of the answers may seem a little vague, but we honestly just don't have a solid date yet for some of these fixes. Hope this helps, though, and let us know if you have any follow up questions!
Focused Charge: This ability has a GCD that locks you out of any action for 1-2 seconds after each use. We are aware this is happening, and are working on a fix.

Eclipse: After a successful spell reflect, you are unable to use any abilities for a few seconds. We are aware this is happening, and are working on a fix.

Solar Barrage: This ability grants empower, but does not apply to AoEs. It turns out that the bonus damage wasn’t applying to itself, and we’re currently testing a fix for this.

Sun Fire and Solar Flare: The travel speed of these projectiles is noticeably slower than other casted-projectile spells (such as Crystal Frags). We plan on increasing the travel speed for these projectiles in a future update.

Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.

Puncturing Strikes: We’re seeing reports that this ability is giving a 4 second CC immunity to every target it hits, regardless if they are hit by the knockback. We’re currently investigating to see if this is a bug or working as intended, and will let you know when we have an answer.

Seeing this kind of stuff, these internal notes, is AWESOME. I would love to see this more often.