Will you please complete the VR level removal / conversion to champion system by May (part 1)

Sallington · April 2015

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

b_archaonpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Anyone who is not a complete moron would support VR removal. In my opinion, VR/Cadwell S&G has been one of the worst design choices in MMO history and is the reason most people quit playing.

Oh, you called me a moron. Thank you so much! You have enlightened me with the luminance of your radiant intellect and I've seen the True Way. You have trully turned your opinion into rock-solid fact. No wonder, your planet-ranged mind-reading ways also revealed why so many players left! I am trully humbled. 10/10 argument, would troll again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, level 90 is not the equivalent level conversion.
Clearing a faction gives a player at least 45-50 levels per faction. So silver and gold plus your original faction puts you at 150+
That's only taking you to VR10. Now to get to VR12 that's a couple more so it's at least 150+ character levels to be equivalent.

I would appreciate if you'd read my posts as well. I said:

(not 180, because gaining levels is supposed to slow down)

So, if you were to gain 50 lvls from each alliance, you'd get 150, plus some more = 180. Thing is, levels do not usually work like that in rpgs. Vet levels just need 1M XP each. Normal levels would need progressively more, thus about 90.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zone chat is NOT for most of the things you listed but due to poor systems it's used in other manners. I literally play with zone chat off from 1-50 just to escape the recruiting, trade, crap convo, spamming, etc. I don't play to just sit and talk to ppl. I play to enjoy the game and talk to be better or help players who have in game related questions.

Well, you ARE entitled to turn /zone off, but don't complain about your inability to find teammates. It's an either/or matter.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Let's stay on topic please about VR levels.

If you want to comment about LFzg tool, there is a very active thread going on.

I just said it is a completely seperate problem. You were the one that felt the need to devote 1/3 of a large post to the lfg issue...

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is removing a problem as the benefits of removing VR levels far outweighs the complexity of removing them. There are literally no reason not to remove them.

I can list reasons why ZOS shouldn't remove vet levels:

1)The whole game is balanced around vet levels. We've been beta- and live- testing the CS system WITH vet levels; high-end items are gated by vet levels, gear, consumables, you name it. Removing all this would take too much refactoring, which would live behind a slew of bugs.

2)As a consequence of the above, a large part of the dev team would work on said removal and its side-effects, instead of creating new content, something the game sorely needs.

3)The VR levels offer another sense of progression, a cornerstone of RPGs. The Champion System does that too, but more ways to progress=better.

4)VR levels and areas allow you to play without worrying about outlevelling content, as can happen during 1-50. If everything in Cadwell's gold and silver was lvl 50, though, I would find it really boring. The world would feel more static.

5)Many of the players have VR characters. Degrading them to lvl 50 would cause A LOT of complains. I would be leading such a movement. The 70CP were not a compensation for the VR levels themselves, but for the XP earned (and a half-assed at that), else they would have been given AT their removal, not months before.

6)Many new players would not be ready for end-game content by lvl 50. The VR levels encourage them to play in an enviroment that is slightly harder, mainly because it's harder to outlevel it. The same goes for old players levelling a class they don't know.

There are, of course, ways to solve the issues the VR levels create without removing them:

1) Real time scaling enemies. I believe that's what ZOS intends for the dlcs, the same as Neverwinter does for its 'event' areas.

2) Battle scaling in Cyrodiil for vet1-vet13.

3) Better lfg tool.

4) Cross-alliance options. Dungeons, Craglorn and all future non-pvp dlcs should be cross-faction. No excuses, no exceptions.

If removal would cause so many problems why would they say they would remove them in the first place? Surely they looked into the amount of work needed to make such a change before they said it. If they saw it your way they would have said so right off the bat. If they leave them now the only reason would be that it's less work for them.

Surprised by ZOS saying something and doing the opposite? You must be new here. They seem to have a knack for telling us what we want to hear, and then opening cash stores.

7788b14_ESO · April 2015

Rayco wrote: »

This can go back and forth all people want, but ZOS has the data and I'm sure if they took a look at it they would see a large number of players who never went past v1-3. The veteran system in the sense of providing significant player progression should have never seen the light of day. If someone wants to play the other content on the same character, that's cool. However by making veteran levels give significant character progression (stats, gear, etc) they've made it a gate for other content such as dungeons, trials, and pvp.

There are some players who have more time on their hands and don't mind grinding out the content, but the majority of players aren't going to put up with that and the fact that this grind is a gate for them to be able to compete in certain content. Forget it.The frustration of going from level 40-50 in a pvp zone with a balancing buff to being a v1 going up against v14s...yeah. Try it out some time and tell me you want to keep playing this game.

As a player who hit v1 shortly after release, I saw that I now had to grind out the content I just did essentially two more times to max out and I just decided to quit. I was in a very close knit guild of ~70 players. Looking through the roster, roughly 40 or so got to v1-3. About 2 or 3 players got to v10+ and the rest never hit veteran at all. If i had to guess it would be because many of their friends started to quit after hitting v1 and being faced with another grind.

The vet system will attract and maintain the "hardcore" gamers who want to put in that time to grind but lose the actual majority of players. Eventually the hardcore vet crowd will also get bored and die off and then the game is dead.

Hardcore vet players should be encouraging this removal as it will bring more money and life into this game which will spur development, content, and updates.

Sidenote: I find it pretty funny people are calling those that don't want to grind "lazy". Sorry if we're too busy with our jobs or real life commitments. Maybe we get out of that desk chair throne for a bit and realize that lazy isn't the right word here and is in fact pretty ironic.

TL;DR : Removal of vet system is good for newer players by breaking down BS grind gates on content which is good for hardcore v14 players by bringing more money and popularity to the game which will result in more and better quality content.

For me the game ends at v1. I can find no enjoyment in going further until changes are made.

Xjcon · April 2015

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

b_archaonpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Anyone who is not a complete moron would support VR removal. In my opinion, VR/Cadwell S&G has been one of the worst design choices in MMO history and is the reason most people quit playing.

Oh, you called me a moron. Thank you so much! You have enlightened me with the luminance of your radiant intellect and I've seen the True Way. You have trully turned your opinion into rock-solid fact. No wonder, your planet-ranged mind-reading ways also revealed why so many players left! I am trully humbled. 10/10 argument, would troll again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, level 90 is not the equivalent level conversion.
Clearing a faction gives a player at least 45-50 levels per faction. So silver and gold plus your original faction puts you at 150+
That's only taking you to VR10. Now to get to VR12 that's a couple more so it's at least 150+ character levels to be equivalent.

I would appreciate if you'd read my posts as well. I said:

(not 180, because gaining levels is supposed to slow down)

So, if you were to gain 50 lvls from each alliance, you'd get 150, plus some more = 180. Thing is, levels do not usually work like that in rpgs. Vet levels just need 1M XP each. Normal levels would need progressively more, thus about 90.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zone chat is NOT for most of the things you listed but due to poor systems it's used in other manners. I literally play with zone chat off from 1-50 just to escape the recruiting, trade, crap convo, spamming, etc. I don't play to just sit and talk to ppl. I play to enjoy the game and talk to be better or help players who have in game related questions.

Well, you ARE entitled to turn /zone off, but don't complain about your inability to find teammates. It's an either/or matter.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Let's stay on topic please about VR levels.

If you want to comment about LFzg tool, there is a very active thread going on.

I just said it is a completely seperate problem. You were the one that felt the need to devote 1/3 of a large post to the lfg issue...

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is removing a problem as the benefits of removing VR levels far outweighs the complexity of removing them. There are literally no reason not to remove them.

I can list reasons why ZOS shouldn't remove vet levels:

1)The whole game is balanced around vet levels. We've been beta- and live- testing the CS system WITH vet levels; high-end items are gated by vet levels, gear, consumables, you name it. Removing all this would take too much refactoring, which would live behind a slew of bugs.

2)As a consequence of the above, a large part of the dev team would work on said removal and its side-effects, instead of creating new content, something the game sorely needs.

3)The VR levels offer another sense of progression, a cornerstone of RPGs. The Champion System does that too, but more ways to progress=better.

4)VR levels and areas allow you to play without worrying about outlevelling content, as can happen during 1-50. If everything in Cadwell's gold and silver was lvl 50, though, I would find it really boring. The world would feel more static.

5)Many of the players have VR characters. Degrading them to lvl 50 would cause A LOT of complains. I would be leading such a movement. The 70CP were not a compensation for the VR levels themselves, but for the XP earned (and a half-assed at that), else they would have been given AT their removal, not months before.

6)Many new players would not be ready for end-game content by lvl 50. The VR levels encourage them to play in an enviroment that is slightly harder, mainly because it's harder to outlevel it. The same goes for old players levelling a class they don't know.

There are, of course, ways to solve the issues the VR levels create without removing them:

1) Real time scaling enemies. I believe that's what ZOS intends for the dlcs, the same as Neverwinter does for its 'event' areas.

2) Battle scaling in Cyrodiil for vet1-vet13.

3) Better lfg tool.

4) Cross-alliance options. Dungeons, Craglorn and all future non-pvp dlcs should be cross-faction. No excuses, no exceptions.

If removal would cause so many problems why would they say they would remove them in the first place? Surely they looked into the amount of work needed to make such a change before they said it. If they saw it your way they would have said so right off the bat. If they leave them now the only reason would be that it's less work for them.

Just because they said something doesn't mean it's set in stone, If you haven't figured that out yet I am sure you will.

Varicite · April 2015

Xjcon wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

b_archaonpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Anyone who is not a complete moron would support VR removal. In my opinion, VR/Cadwell S&G has been one of the worst design choices in MMO history and is the reason most people quit playing.

Oh, you called me a moron. Thank you so much! You have enlightened me with the luminance of your radiant intellect and I've seen the True Way. You have trully turned your opinion into rock-solid fact. No wonder, your planet-ranged mind-reading ways also revealed why so many players left! I am trully humbled. 10/10 argument, would troll again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, level 90 is not the equivalent level conversion.
Clearing a faction gives a player at least 45-50 levels per faction. So silver and gold plus your original faction puts you at 150+
That's only taking you to VR10. Now to get to VR12 that's a couple more so it's at least 150+ character levels to be equivalent.

I would appreciate if you'd read my posts as well. I said:

(not 180, because gaining levels is supposed to slow down)

So, if you were to gain 50 lvls from each alliance, you'd get 150, plus some more = 180. Thing is, levels do not usually work like that in rpgs. Vet levels just need 1M XP each. Normal levels would need progressively more, thus about 90.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zone chat is NOT for most of the things you listed but due to poor systems it's used in other manners. I literally play with zone chat off from 1-50 just to escape the recruiting, trade, crap convo, spamming, etc. I don't play to just sit and talk to ppl. I play to enjoy the game and talk to be better or help players who have in game related questions.

Well, you ARE entitled to turn /zone off, but don't complain about your inability to find teammates. It's an either/or matter.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Let's stay on topic please about VR levels.

If you want to comment about LFzg tool, there is a very active thread going on.

I just said it is a completely seperate problem. You were the one that felt the need to devote 1/3 of a large post to the lfg issue...

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is removing a problem as the benefits of removing VR levels far outweighs the complexity of removing them. There are literally no reason not to remove them.

I can list reasons why ZOS shouldn't remove vet levels:

1)The whole game is balanced around vet levels. We've been beta- and live- testing the CS system WITH vet levels; high-end items are gated by vet levels, gear, consumables, you name it. Removing all this would take too much refactoring, which would live behind a slew of bugs.

2)As a consequence of the above, a large part of the dev team would work on said removal and its side-effects, instead of creating new content, something the game sorely needs.

3)The VR levels offer another sense of progression, a cornerstone of RPGs. The Champion System does that too, but more ways to progress=better.

4)VR levels and areas allow you to play without worrying about outlevelling content, as can happen during 1-50. If everything in Cadwell's gold and silver was lvl 50, though, I would find it really boring. The world would feel more static.

5)Many of the players have VR characters. Degrading them to lvl 50 would cause A LOT of complains. I would be leading such a movement. The 70CP were not a compensation for the VR levels themselves, but for the XP earned (and a half-assed at that), else they would have been given AT their removal, not months before.

6)Many new players would not be ready for end-game content by lvl 50. The VR levels encourage them to play in an enviroment that is slightly harder, mainly because it's harder to outlevel it. The same goes for old players levelling a class they don't know.

There are, of course, ways to solve the issues the VR levels create without removing them:

1) Real time scaling enemies. I believe that's what ZOS intends for the dlcs, the same as Neverwinter does for its 'event' areas.

2) Battle scaling in Cyrodiil for vet1-vet13.

3) Better lfg tool.

4) Cross-alliance options. Dungeons, Craglorn and all future non-pvp dlcs should be cross-faction. No excuses, no exceptions.

If removal would cause so many problems why would they say they would remove them in the first place? Surely they looked into the amount of work needed to make such a change before they said it. If they saw it your way they would have said so right off the bat. If they leave them now the only reason would be that it's less work for them.

Just because they said something doesn't mean it's set in stone, If you haven't figured that out yet I am sure you will.

But having said it implies that they have at least considered the hurdles to removing the VR system, and they have thus far done most of what they said they were planning when implementing the Champion system.

Removal of VRs is next on the list. Not saying that I think it will happen (I've learned not to even bother forming an opinion on what WILL happen, just what I think SHOULD happen), but it's at least plausible that they'll continue following the original plan.

But it's also completely plausible they were just blowing smoke up our derrieres yet again. Wouldn't be the 10th time.

/shrug

patrykplawskib16_ESO · April 2015

Natjur wrote: »

They said they want to remove the vet levels, but they do not have a clear plan yet on how to deal with the high level armor, food, potions and end game instances.

So maybe we can give some ideas.
What do you expect to happen to V14 gear?
(1) Nerfed down to L50\V1 and therefore lose lots of stats?
(2) Keep the stats but need X CP points before you can wear it?

What about vet dungeons and trials? If everyone is L50, how will end game stuff be harder?
Doing a Vet dugn scaled to V1 with four V1 toons is a lot easier then doing a Vet dugn scaled to V14 with four V14 toons.

With everything at L50, will we have more options when we zone in that scale the instances harder and harder? Or will it always be a cake walk?

The easy option is just make L70 the new max level, and convert V14 players to level 63

@ZOS_GinaBruno Listen to this man ^^^

Rune_Relic · April 2015

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

They said they want to remove the vet levels, but they do not have a clear plan yet on how to deal with the high level armor, food, potions and end game instances.

So maybe we can give some ideas.
What do you expect to happen to V14 gear?
(1) Nerfed down to L50\V1 and therefore lose lots of stats?
(2) Keep the stats but need X CP points before you can wear it?

What about vet dungeons and trials? If everyone is L50, how will end game stuff be harder?
Doing a Vet dugn scaled to V1 with four V1 toons is a lot easier then doing a Vet dugn scaled to V14 with four V14 toons.

With everything at L50, will we have more options when we zone in that scale the instances harder and harder? Or will it always be a cake walk?

The easy option is just make L70 the new max level, and convert V14 players to level 63

@ZOS_GinaBruno Listen to this man ^^^

but armour and weapon damage doesnt scale like that.
Each vet level climb is equivalent to two normal levels.
Vet 14 is equivalent to 50+28 if you wanted to do a straight conversion....power wise.

Alphashado · April 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

They said they want to remove the vet levels, but they do not have a clear plan yet on how to deal with the high level armor, food, potions and end game instances.

So maybe we can give some ideas.
What do you expect to happen to V14 gear?
(1) Nerfed down to L50\V1 and therefore lose lots of stats?
(2) Keep the stats but need X CP points before you can wear it?

What about vet dungeons and trials? If everyone is L50, how will end game stuff be harder?
Doing a Vet dugn scaled to V1 with four V1 toons is a lot easier then doing a Vet dugn scaled to V14 with four V14 toons.

With everything at L50, will we have more options when we zone in that scale the instances harder and harder? Or will it always be a cake walk?

The easy option is just make L70 the new max level, and convert V14 players to level 63

@ZOS_GinaBruno Listen to this man ^^^

but armour and weapon damage doesnt scale like that.
Each vet level climb is equivalent to two normal levels.
Vet 14 is equivalent to 50+28 if you wanted to do a straight conversion....power wise.

Vet levels are equivalent to 10 normal levels. Not 2

EDIT: Nvm I see what you are saying.

Rune_Relic · April 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

They said they want to remove the vet levels, but they do not have a clear plan yet on how to deal with the high level armor, food, potions and end game instances.

So maybe we can give some ideas.
What do you expect to happen to V14 gear?
(1) Nerfed down to L50\V1 and therefore lose lots of stats?
(2) Keep the stats but need X CP points before you can wear it?

What about vet dungeons and trials? If everyone is L50, how will end game stuff be harder?
Doing a Vet dugn scaled to V1 with four V1 toons is a lot easier then doing a Vet dugn scaled to V14 with four V14 toons.

With everything at L50, will we have more options when we zone in that scale the instances harder and harder? Or will it always be a cake walk?

The easy option is just make L70 the new max level, and convert V14 players to level 63

@ZOS_GinaBruno Listen to this man ^^^

but armour and weapon damage doesnt scale like that.
Each vet level climb is equivalent to two normal levels.
Vet 14 is equivalent to 50+28 if you wanted to do a straight conversion....power wise.

Vet levels are equivalent to 10 normal levels. Not 2

Not for armor and weapon rating it aint

Close approximation for chest piece pre 2.0 as 1:1 was (level*4)+24.
Then add 10 for green, blue, purple, gold

wraith808 · April 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

They said they want to remove the vet levels, but they do not have a clear plan yet on how to deal with the high level armor, food, potions and end game instances.

So maybe we can give some ideas.
What do you expect to happen to V14 gear?
(1) Nerfed down to L50\V1 and therefore lose lots of stats?
(2) Keep the stats but need X CP points before you can wear it?

What about vet dungeons and trials? If everyone is L50, how will end game stuff be harder?
Doing a Vet dugn scaled to V1 with four V1 toons is a lot easier then doing a Vet dugn scaled to V14 with four V14 toons.

With everything at L50, will we have more options when we zone in that scale the instances harder and harder? Or will it always be a cake walk?

The easy option is just make L70 the new max level, and convert V14 players to level 63

@ZOS_GinaBruno Listen to this man ^^^

but armour and weapon damage doesnt scale like that.
Each vet level climb is equivalent to two normal levels.
Vet 14 is equivalent to 50+28 if you wanted to do a straight conversion....power wise.

Vet levels are equivalent to 10 normal levels. Not 2

Not for armor and weapon rating it aint
Close approximation for chest piece pre 2.0 as 1:1 was (level*4)+24.
Then add 10 for green, blue, purple, gold

Yeah, and this was one of the major design flaws in VRs IMO. You have to get 10x the XPs for only 2x the progression.

Kublakan · April 2015

Remove VR already.

If it was annonced and planned, then go ahead, the waiting is killing the hype.

It's like having these large clouds roaming above your head for months without pouring the rain. My raincoat is getting used by the sun already.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

They said they want to remove the vet levels, but they do not have a clear plan yet on how to deal with the high level armor, food, potions and end game instances.

So maybe we can give some ideas.
What do you expect to happen to V14 gear?
(1) Nerfed down to L50\V1 and therefore lose lots of stats?
(2) Keep the stats but need X CP points before you can wear it?

What about vet dungeons and trials? If everyone is L50, how will end game stuff be harder?
Doing a Vet dugn scaled to V1 with four V1 toons is a lot easier then doing a Vet dugn scaled to V14 with four V14 toons.

With everything at L50, will we have more options when we zone in that scale the instances harder and harder? Or will it always be a cake walk?

The easy option is just make L70 the new max level, and convert V14 players to level 63

@ZOS_GinaBruno Listen to this man ^^^

Please do not. Making level 50 move to 70 is exactly what got the VR levels into the bad place they are in now.

Averya_Teira · April 2015

Just make the Veteran Ranks work like the champion system, account wide. So if you have a VR14, all your alts are VR14 after lvl 50. Removes the tedious VR grind for alts, but keeps it for your main... Even if I would remove it entirely, but I guess ZOS feels like the job is too hard...

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

It shouldn't be removed they should just work like light levels in Destiny.

equipping a full set of vr14 armor makes you vr14.

removing it makes you vr1.

the reason for this is so ZOS doesn't need to waste time with a stat squish like WoW did.

Current cap is vr14, they add wrothgar that has vr15 gear and vr15 mats.

I have to disagree. IF they did this a lot of people would quit.

Why exactly ?

ebls_BR · April 2015

This would be a slap in the face (another, I'd say: the cap of 70 CP was the first) in all people who invested more time leveling alts in this game. So, a person with 1 VR 14 and 7 VR1, which can be accomplished in a matter of weeks, would be equal to someone with 7-8 VR14, who spent months and even a year playing and leveling alts.
Only people who didn't invest time leveling alts or doing quests can defend this idea. Unless they give the CP proportional to the XP gained with the alt, the removal will be utterly unfair.

And people should stop saying that: "do quest is grinding". It's not for me and never was or is for anyone in my RP guilds. Most of the quests have 2, or some, even more solutions (it's not repetition), can be done for multiple ways, and the most important, the game is a MMORPG, an Elder Scrolls. People do quest to forge his characters; to learn about the lore; for imersion; etc. Just because some people on this forum don't like to do quest doesn't mean it's a boring and unbearable thing.

Varicite · April 2015

The plan is and has always been to remove VRs.

If people think that is a reason to quit, they maybe should have done so when it was announced in fall.

It's not a question of IF ZOS removes VRs.

It's a question of whether ZOS lies to us yet again by NOT removing VRs like they have continually stated that they will for half a year now, w/out a single statement to the contrary.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2015

The plan at one point was to go with a subscription only based mmo. You see how that went. Sometimes plans dont work out.

Varicite · April 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The plan at one point was to go with a subscription only based mmo. You see how that went. Sometimes plans dont work out.

The difference being that they actually did go w/ the subscription based model for a year and have not actually implemented an environment w/out VRs.

See, in one example they said something and did it, and decided it wasn't working the way they wanted.

In the other, they said something for half a year, never said otherwise, and then decided not to do it after misleading the entirety of their player base for that long (hypothetically, as this has not yet occurred for VRs).

Can you see why one would feel differently about the 2nd example than the first? At least they tried in the former.

Ysne58 · April 2015

I still don't see how they can remove vet levels without a whole lot of work. I'll believe that change if I ever see it.

Varicite · April 2015

Ysne58 wrote: »

I still don't see how they can remove vet levels without a whole lot of work. I'll believe that change if I ever see it.

The fact that they have never actually laid out even the beginnings of how they might accomplish this leads me to believe that they don't really have a plan, and that all of it was pretty much hot air.

That's par for the course, after all.

Ysne58 · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

I still don't see how they can remove vet levels without a whole lot of work. I'll believe that change if I ever see it.

The fact that they have never actually laid out even the beginnings of how they might accomplish this leads me to believe that they don't really have a plan, and that all of it was pretty much hot air.

That's par for the course, after all.

I'm not able to keep up with all the posts on this forum, I just keep up with whatever is on first page of recent posts. It's possible that they've posted something and I just missed it.

Varicite · April 2015

They haven't, they posted a LONG time ago on the Champion system phases. That's pretty much it.

They have followed that plan pretty faithfully thus far, however, but now we are at the phase where they are supposed to remove VRs and introduce season gear.

ZOS has remained mysteriously silent on both of these announced changes, however.

Ysne58 · April 2015

Kind of like the mysterious silence before they announced the move to Buy to Play?

Xjcon · April 2015

Ysne58 wrote: »

Kind of like the mysterious silence before they announced the move to Buy to Play?

Perhaps it's the fact that if the CM's or any of the devs do say anything and something changes they get attacked on the forums.

maryriv · April 2015

MMO should never cater to casuals.

Anilahation · April 2015

Removing VR will take so much development time that can be used to making actual content

Seraphyel · April 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Those outraged masses were a little part of the community.

I don't know if those players have ever played another MMORPG before but it was OBVIOUS that it's not normal to play all stories of opposing factions.

It was the same 'little part' that got the API gutted. Wasn't saying that they were right... but it definitely had an effect.

Yes, it had some kind of toxic effect for the whole game as we can see now.

Endurance wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Again, making people play the exact same quests in all three factions is not an expansion of the storyline. It is a generic attempt to add a time sink to the game. Nothing more.

Actually, this is incorrect. Caldwell's Silver and Gold were added to similar outrage over the fact that you had to create alts to see the whole game. So... the outraged masses got what they wanted, and it was implemented to get it in, in a fashion that didn't account for the time it takes to go through them.

What I don't want is for them to implement something else half-baked in order to satisfy the vocal masses, which may or may not be a minority. I want them to design it in a way that doesn't introduce not only new bugs, but new issues with implementation. As far as my ideas... you can see them earlier in the thread.

Those outraged masses were a little part of the community.

I don't know if those players have ever played another MMORPG before but it was OBVIOUS that it's not normal to play all stories of opposing factions.

You choose a faction for a reason.

Design? Design what? It's naive to think they will come up with something new to replace VR. If they remove it, they remove it in the easiest way.

they dont need to remove ANYTHING, so like i said before if the small few of you dont like VR then by all means stay level 49! ALOT of people were already complaining about the 1~50 grind being so easy and they wanted more of a challenge, now VR is just too much for them they want it removed?

They need to remove them and they already said they will remove them.

Be sure that the biggest chunk of players hate the way past 50. It's obvious, you can see and read it everywhere.

Aimelin wrote: »

They wont, they want to make the new players with TU & console release suffer first, then lose players again, then they'll do it

with all the dumb changes they made to the game recently, i dare not even think what they'll have in mind with the removal of vet ranks ....

god help us all

As I said, if console version is a success, they may be gone by the end of the year. If console version is another flop, VR will never be removed.

Seraphyel · April 2015

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Just make the Veteran Ranks work like the champion system, account wide. So if you have a VR14, all your alts are VR14 after lvl 50. Removes the tedious VR grind for alts, but keeps it for your main... Even if I would remove it entirely, but I guess ZOS feels like the job is too hard...

This would be the easiest solution and it would be some kind of okay if there would be more VR content.

$infraction2008b16_ESO$ · April 2015

Endurance wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Anyone who is not a complete moron would support VR removal. In my opinion, VR/Cadwell S&G has been one of the worst design choices in MMO history and is the reason most people quit playing.

why are you even here? remove veteran ranks? and mess up all the wiki pages and fan site databases? what for? if you dont like VR then stay level 49

I'd rather an improved game than up to date third party websites that are hardly essential.... its a no brainer really as if the web owner can't be bothered to keep the site updated every time there's a major change then it can't be that good a site.

Guppet · April 2015

ebls_BR wrote: »

This would be a slap in the face (another, I'd say: the cap of 70 CP was the first) in all people who invested more time leveling alts in this game. So, a person with 1 VR 14 and 7 VR1, which can be accomplished in a matter of weeks, would be equal to someone with 7-8 VR14, who spent months and even a year playing and leveling alts.
Only people who didn't invest time leveling alts or doing quests can defend this idea. Unless they give the CP proportional to the XP gained with the alt, the removal will be utterly unfair.

And people should stop saying that: "do quest is grinding". It's not for me and never was or is for anyone in my RP guilds. Most of the quests have 2, or some, even more solutions (it's not repetition), can be done for multiple ways, and the most important, the game is a MMORPG, an Elder Scrolls. People do quest to forge his characters; to learn about the lore; for imersion; etc. Just because some people on this forum don't like to do quest doesn't mean it's a boring and unbearable thing.

It gross exaggerations like this that hurt any argument people make.

So you can get a VR14 and 7 VR1's in a matter of weeks?

Most people's first play through to VR1 takes an averag of 4-5 days played (there have been various polls here). That's 96-120 hours of play. At 40 hours a week (more than a full time job) that's 3 weeks. At 3 hours a day, that's 5-6 weeks. For your first VR1.

So you can get 8 characters to VR1 and one to 14 in a matter of weeks?

Of course you can!

It's like people claiming they can get to VR1 in 14 hours. There's never any evidence provided. I want to see a fresh VR14 with a /played of less than 4 days, since that must be fully possible. Doubt we will ever see a screenshot of that though.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Just make the Veteran Ranks work like the champion system, account wide. So if you have a VR14, all your alts are VR14 after lvl 50. Removes the tedious VR grind for alts, but keeps it for your main... Even if I would remove it entirely, but I guess ZOS feels like the job is too hard...

This would be the easiest solution and it would be some kind of okay if there would be more VR content.

isn't this exactly what the OP is saying?

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

maryriv wrote: »

MMO should never cater to casuals.

If they want to stay in business they better.

Would you rather have 5-10k people playing and paying for Plus memberships or would you rather have 1-2million people playing and over 500k paying for plus memberships while the other 1.5 mil are using the crown store.