byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »Personally I really like the recent sorc changes. Ive finally been able to drop S&B/resto for destro/resto in pvp. But pvp is not the issue for most sorcs out there, high sustained dps in pve is. I mainly do pvp now so I only run 1-2 dungeons each night but I manage to do around 10k dps, depending on the fight even towards 13k on undead. I choose some pvp morphs (lightning splash and crushing shock) so dedicated pve-ers should be able to do 10-15% higher dps.
The way to do high sustained dps is pretty simple actually. Stack spell damage as high as possible, I get over 2500 (major sorcery buff active) with set everyone can get. Use nirnhoned fire destro staff, 3x gold magicka reduction (3*7%=21%) glyphs on jewelry and make sure the healer applies elemental drain and/or siphon spirit. The rotation is simple as well, inner light > power surge > ma > lightning splash > ma > crushing shock > ma > repeat until cystal frags procs > cast lightning splash every 6 seconds > cast power surge every 20 seconds. Drop shooting star when its ready AND make sure the tank keeps the boss on the ground effect, very important for high dps!
I hope this is helpful for my fellow sorcerers because its possible to do good dps, even for casual players.
All very short static fights where ground based LL was spammable and your Ulti was a high source of damage.
I am getting tired of Sorcerer players posting these things and thinking short term PvE fight burst that comes close to sustained long term other class dps is somehow comparable, or shows the class is fine.
Try getting those highly selective results on the Engine Guardian in Darkshade...
Actually, one of the Sorcs in my guild did #1 DPS in Hel Ra tonight. Above DKs, both Stamina and Magicka, as well. I'll ask him if he has some screenshots. LL works pretty good there too, your tank just got to be aware of it (same as they should be for DK eruption). And LL will hit quite a large number, and proc Skoria, and together with Thundering Presence - you can completely devastate everything in AOE!
The more I play this, the more I'm convinced that it will be up there at the top for sure.
I suggest you read what I've posted, your reply is not even related to it:Liquid ligthing works in there (on trash mobs), however while you will proudly post your "awesome" (we are talking about sorcs here) DPS, you don't notice how with original Elemental Ring you were hugely contributing to your group by hitting every NPC. With nerfed Elemental Ring you still hit a lot of NPCs. With liquid Ligthing you are pushing e-peen numbers but... you are actually hitting 3-4 NPCs at a time. So yeah, you can boast now... yet be quite less useful.
It'll take more than words to convince me that a static, tiny circle on the ground hits as many run-around NPCs as Elemental Ring did.
I didn't read through all of this, so I don't know if it has been suggested, but I just came here to say this for Surge.
1) Have it track critical damage done during the cool down period.
2) Apply the single highest value done when the cool down is up.
3) No more low heals from damage over time abilities.
4) Profit!
Pretty much an invalid post right from the start with the OP showing a parse that:
1- has an ultimate, Ice Comet, used with 13 hits - therefore an aoe pull.
2- a short burst fight of less than 1 min
A short burst, many-mobs aoe fight on non-boss targets and an ultimate used is not an indication of sustainable dps.
Emma_Eunjung wrote: »As long as you don't mind doing only 2500 DPS (not a typo!), you can use my "Electric Turtle" build that focuses on regen and mitigation to solo pretty much anything in Craglorn, including overland world bosses and delve bosses. Features of the Electric Turtle include:
1) 5 Heavy + 2 Medium armor for max mitigation and a bit of stamina regen.
2) 5 pc. Footman's Fortune and 5 pc. Willow's Path for mitigation and 15% extra regen, respectively.
3) 1H + S are 2 pc. Seducer for the magicka regen. Defensive trait on sword.
4) All jewelry enchanted with gold spell cost reduction glyphs. All armor enchanted with Magicka glyphs with Divine trait.
5) Structured Entropy, Thundering Presence, Lightning Splash, Encase for CC ( I use Shattering morph) and Defensive Posture for the mitigation passive. Use whatever Ultimate you want.
6) Put whatever you want on your off bar: Endless Fury finisher, Resto heals, whatever.
7) Hold down block and use Lightning Splash, whichever morph you prefer, to wear your enemy down over a long period of time. Do a heavy attack whenever you can.
8) Keep Thundering Presence up constantly and spam Entropy whenever you need a healing. Notice in the pic I don't even have any potions, lol.
9) If you're curious about stats, I've been using 31 Magicka + 31 Health mostly, but I recently swithced to 62 Magicka.
10) Atronach Mundus stone is essential for the magicka regen.
11) NO FOOD! I use VR10 purple DRINK for the 3 stat regen.
Three things you WON'T find in this build:
1) Goofy pets.
2) Nerfed Surge heals.
3) Expensive wards.
I made this build as a reaction to all the Sorc nerfs just for fun, but it actually works well, just very SLOWLY, lol.
BTW, I've also been experimenting with Daedric Curse as a damage spell, as "Skarath of the Many" discovered recently:
Pretty much an invalid post right from the start with the OP showing a parse that:
1- has an ultimate, Ice Comet, used with 13 hits - therefore an aoe pull.
2- a short burst fight of less than 1 min
A short burst, many-mobs aoe fight on non-boss targets and an ultimate used is not an indication of sustainable dps.
If you don't even know that ice comet has a ticking dot, I totally understand that you think Sorcs are bad.
I didn't read through all of this, so I don't know if it has been suggested, but I just came here to say this for Surge.
1) Have it track critical damage done during the cool down period.
2) Apply the single highest value done when the cool down is up.
3) No more low heals from damage over time abilities.
4) Profit!
kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »Sorcs are fine, we are still the most powerful class in game.
MADshadowman wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »Sorcs are fine, we are still the most powerful class in game.
That is not correct, we are the weakest class in game, we just have awesome players that spent a lot of time learning how to be competitive with a sorc. Don't confuse a good player with a good class.
xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »Sorcs are fine, we are still the most powerful class in game.
That is not correct, we are the weakest class in game, we just have awesome players that spent a lot of time learning how to be competitive with a sorc. Don't confuse a good player with a good class.
said every most powerful class ever.
Like I remember when Bright Wizards would say this..
xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »Sorcs are fine, we are still the most powerful class in game.
That is not correct, we are the weakest class in game, we just have awesome players that spent a lot of time learning how to be competitive with a sorc. Don't confuse a good player with a good class.
said every most powerful class ever.
Like I remember when Bright Wizards would say this..
xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »Sorcs are fine, we are still the most powerful class in game.
That is not correct, we are the weakest class in game, we just have awesome players that spent a lot of time learning how to be competitive with a sorc. Don't confuse a good player with a good class.
said every most powerful class ever.
Like I remember when Bright Wizards would say this..
The_Drexill wrote: »Sorcs are extremely strong in PvP right now. Honestly, eats anything alive if played half decent... DK's being the only "counter".
Indeed, there were a couple I came across yesterday that definitely made me earn it.The_Drexill wrote: »Sorcs are extremely strong in PvP right now. Honestly, eats anything alive if played half decent... DK's being the only "counter".
Whether sorcerers have been needed or are about the same misses the point somewhat. The people posting on this, and other threads, are essentially advocates for sorcerers. The goal of all should be to point out the weak points in the sorcerer class design and to offer suggestions on possible fixes. This means pointing out stamina, tank and healer shortfalls, weak points with regards to a number of abilities and highlighting the issues with, for example, pets.
I would equally expect NB, DK, and Templar advocates to do the same...
And if we had class forums and nominated player class advocates, then these threads could become productive rather than poisonous.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We do still have plans to make stamina-based Sorcerer builds more competitive. That said, it’s going to take some time to make comprehensive changes that are balanced, fully tested (both internally and on the PTS), and also include appropriate visual effects. We’re currently keeping an eye on data since Update 6 was published, and have some ideas on what we’d like to pursue. What would you all like to see to make stamina Sorcs a more viable build to use?
byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »Whether sorcerers have been needed or are about the same misses the point somewhat. The people posting on this, and other threads, are essentially advocates for sorcerers. The goal of all should be to point out the weak points in the sorcerer class design and to offer suggestions on possible fixes. This means pointing out stamina, tank and healer shortfalls, weak points with regards to a number of abilities and highlighting the issues with, for example, pets.
I would equally expect NB, DK, and Templar advocates to do the same...
And if we had class forums and nominated player class advocates, then these threads could become productive rather than poisonous.
This is what Gil.Galad did - then the thread was hijacked by the 'Sorcs are fine and here's a few seconds of me on my Sorc dpsing a target dummy to prove it' routine by a very small handful of people.
They have successfully and repeatedly steered the conversation away from the holistic whole as you and the OP have laid out and refuse even when asked directly to answer on these issues.
Apparently, saying 'Sorc is fine because I'm a top player in a top guild so you're opinion is irrelevant' is enough proof to make your case for these individuals.
A well rounded evidence based argument eludes them for some reason...
Me... I prefer facts and intelligent analysis, so the OP has my vote, and my personal observations playing my Sorcerer agree with his take on the problems pretty closely.
byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »Whether sorcerers have been needed or are about the same misses the point somewhat. The people posting on this, and other threads, are essentially advocates for sorcerers. The goal of all should be to point out the weak points in the sorcerer class design and to offer suggestions on possible fixes. This means pointing out stamina, tank and healer shortfalls, weak points with regards to a number of abilities and highlighting the issues with, for example, pets.
I would equally expect NB, DK, and Templar advocates to do the same...
And if we had class forums and nominated player class advocates, then these threads could become productive rather than poisonous.
This is what Gil.Galad did - then the thread was hijacked by the 'Sorcs are fine and here's a few seconds of me on my Sorc dpsing a target dummy to prove it' routine by a very small handful of people.
They have successfully and repeatedly steered the conversation away from the holistic whole as you and the OP have laid out and refuse even when asked directly to answer on these issues.
Apparently, saying 'Sorc is fine because I'm a top player in a top guild so you're opinion is irrelevant' is enough proof to make your case for these individuals.
A well rounded evidence based argument eludes them for some reason...
Me... I prefer facts and intelligent analysis, so the OP has my vote, and my personal observations playing my Sorcerer agree with his take on the problems pretty closely.
@byrom101b16_ESO You've gone on and on about Gil.Galad's contributions and I'm sorry, but I've looked at his whole post history, and there is nothing scientific or groundbreaking about any of his posts or topics. Your whole arguments against anyone providing real life parse information (that shoots down your whole Sorc is bad theory) is that Gil.Galad broke down every deficiency of the class and parses do not show these deficiencies.
I can sum up Gil.Galad's contributions to the Sorc discussion for you even....
Sorc has poor group utility and flexibility
-True to an extent. We are poor healers and possibly the worst tank in 1.6 as well. The one thing good ol Gil forgets to mention is that we do our DPS from range which is a big boost in a lot of fights. I fully admit that we bring less in terms of buffs to a raid, but I will say that Negate is still useful although far from mandatory.
He presents a terrible sorc vs temp survivability comparison in spellscar
- This is a ridiculous comparison and means nothing. He is comparing heals per second with surge and fails to realize how powerful and survivable he could be using dmg shields instead. This is just a player failing to realize what the new tool we must use to survive is.
Skill balancing
- He then goes on to make some skill balancing suggestions, all of which are fairly minor and are pretty acceptable IMO. Negate getting the major dmg reduction buff just like VoB and Nova makes sense. His other changes don't really affect much besides his change to Surge healing. The problem with surge healing is dots and small attacks taking up the cooldown, and it should be addressed somehow. His suggestion of 6 target max is acceptable as long as it is within ZOS power to implement this.
And basically that is it. Please enlighten me to what I am missing about either the above information that I paraphrased or some other of Gil.Galad's posts that have this groundbreaking and definitive information that supersedes all real world parses from other players. Also please note that I do not intend to denigrate Gil.Galad's work. He provided good feedback on PTS and his post was thorough. I just don't see why you are building him up to be the voice of reason against actual in game proof.