Fizzlewizzle wrote: »I personally haven't had any lag or anything while in PVP. I don't see many people (might be the cause), but when i find a group to siege with i don't notice a drop in performance or the like.Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Why not make the PvP area smaller, and provide other content in the areas which aren't used for PvP?
(Beware, Professionally drawn map in the next spoiler) The red area could be the main PvP zone.
There won't be things like Dolmens, Quests or dungeons here. Just a pure PVP area.
Two Keeps for each alliance would provide an entrance to a tunnel (two tunnels per alliance), which will end at the scroll holding place (hidden underground).
The 2 scrolls will be held at these hiding places, two scrolls at the keeps that give access to it, and 2 scrolls at the small can be kept close to the wall, which would force an enemy group to get close to it to steal the scroll.
The Black circle would be the end of the PvP area. It will be a huge wall with at the "alliance borders" (the Blue, Red and Yellow lines) enough NPC's on the walls to kill any hostile groups that tries to "conquer" the walls.
The players that belong to said alliance could just pass through a gate (or multiple gates) on these walls.
There will be a town at the other side of the walls which level 10 players could teleport too when they start a campaign.
The Gray areas will be Neutral areas (you will see who belongs to which alliance, but you can't fight eachother) with an endgame (VR14) Dolmen at the keeps that are located in those areas.
These Dolmens will be extremely hard, spawning only the toughest enemies (the ones you normally fight just before destroying a normal dolmen) as normal mobs, and Uber Titan-like enemies for bosses.
All 3 alliances will be able to enter these areas, the two alliances next to the gray area by a "side door"and the third alliance through a door thats connected to the PvP area.
The Alliance areas (The red, Blue and Yellow zones) could be VR14 areas with quests, dolmens and dungeons for the players to do.
It nothing more then an idea, it would counter the horse simulator we have now.
So your solution to the issue of lag caused by too many PvP players in a small area is to forcibly confine all PvP players to an even smaller map, and turn the rest of Cyrodiil into PvE zones?
No thank you.
We need fixes to make PvP in Cyrodiil more viable in its intended format, not a castration of PvP in Cyrodiil.
Perfectly fine with turning all the PvE quests in Cyrodiil to v14 and dramatically increasing their experience output for endgame players, but they should also remain part of the PvP map to accomodate.
Perhaps the quest hub towns need to have their quest exp dramatically increased, and have the completion of 10 daily quests in a town provide a buff that is meaningful to PvP players (ex: increases spell power and weapon power by 5% and increases AP gains by 5% for 5 hours; only applies to a character while in Cyrodiil).
This could help spread people out a bit by giving other tasks worth doing in Cyrodiil, and turn the quest hubs back into small-scale PvP hotspots like they used to be before their experience got nerfed.
...
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »ZoS kept a low profile and recoded the network code from "optimistic" to "realistic". That is, they had to move a lot of "anti-cheat checks" from the potentially tampered with clients to the server. This put a massive additional stress on the amount of data to be processed. There are some ways around this but they require a true recode from scratch, they can't affort it.
That original "optimistic" network code might actually work on consoles, because they are not nearly as easily hackable. I might be dreaming, but I think it's possible. I don't own a console, so it won't help me, but it would help the game.
A lot of people are asking for more anti-zerg skills. How would that help in situations where no skill works? Yesterday we fought against a group at a flag for at least 15 minutes. Nobody died on either side, skills just didn't do any damage, most of the time my magicka didn't get reduced. There are enough videos of such fights around.
More skill damage isn't helpful in these cases. Lag capture of flags and scrolls will not stop that way.
Perhaps the server should infect players with a deadly disease when too many people stack at one place tor too long. Just kick then from that place when the server notices performance going down. It people risk waking up at the gates, they may avoid such crowds.
ZOS_PaulSage wrote: »Just to clarify. There seemed to be a misunderstanding that I was saying we are "giving up" or "blaming this on players." Absolutely not. We are looking at the issue from many angles. I certainly didn't mean to imply we couldn't or wouldn't change code to improve performance, but rather that the answer wasn't more hardware. (It is often suggested this is the best way to fix problems.) I also wasn't implying you shouldn't play naturally, but unfortunately it is true that more players right now in a smaller area causes the performance problems. I say this not to discourage behavior or try push off the issue, but rather to give completely frank information about the root cause.
Source:The Elder Scrolls Online supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil.
sc_prabhu1986rwb17_ESO wrote: »I blame it all on the lighting patch, that's where it all began for me. Remove it from Cyrodiil, we PvPers don't need no fancy lights. What we need is a stable place to smash each other's heads with wood and metal.
You can keep the fancy lights for places outside of Cyrodiil.
See if that works.
ZOS_PaulSage wrote: »Hello everyone,
Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.
Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking.
Rune_Relic wrote: »Request more and more damage types, hitting more and more people....then cry servers cant handle extra work.
Guys and girls...adding even more damage calcs and hitting more and more people to improve performance is not going to work.
1.6 is even worse then 1.5 with 50 target damage than the 6+ target damage.
In a 30 v 30 fight....if 30 people fire off magicka spells with aoe that's upto 1500 damage calcs that have to be done.
In a 30 v 30 fight...if 30 people fire off melee skills single target that's upto 30 damage calcs that have to be done
That's upto 50x the workload because everyone is spamming aoe of some kind instead of single target.
And that's happening every couple of seconds.
Where do you expect all these damage calcs are being held until delivered ?
Did you really expect removing aoe caps and making an even bigger damage queue would help with lag ?
Option 1 - kill off as much AoE as you can.
Option 2 - Use CD to force people outside of the damage radius and reduce the accumulated hit queues.
Option 3 - Limit the size of the hit queue per person and drop/refund hits if too busy to handle the load.
Clearly if as you stated the Graphics/lighting are not the problem...and there is no problem in small battles....then the servers simply cant handle the amount of skills that are being fired. So stop trying to do the impossible.
Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Request more and more damage types, hitting more and more people....then cry servers cant handle extra work.
Guys and girls...adding even more damage calcs and hitting more and more people to improve performance is not going to work.
1.6 is even worse then 1.5 with 50 target damage than the 6+ target damage.
In a 30 v 30 fight....if 30 people fire off magicka spells with aoe that's upto 1500 damage calcs that have to be done.
In a 30 v 30 fight...if 30 people fire off melee skills single target that's upto 30 damage calcs that have to be done
That's upto 50x the workload because everyone is spamming aoe of some kind instead of single target.
And that's happening every couple of seconds.
Where do you expect all these damage calcs are being held until delivered ?
Did you really expect removing aoe caps and making an even bigger damage queue would help with lag ?
Option 1 - kill off as much AoE as you can.
Option 2 - Use CD to force people outside of the damage radius and reduce the accumulated hit queues.
Option 3 - Limit the size of the hit queue per person and drop/refund hits if too busy to handle the load.
Clearly if as you stated the Graphics/lighting are not the problem...and there is no problem in small battles....then the servers simply cant handle the amount of skills that are being fired. So stop trying to do the impossible.
Or return the AOE cap for PvP.
Refunding hits would be a bad idea, since hitting to many people could mean that you get more resources back then you originally spend (or at least, thats how i understand it).Rune_Relic wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Request more and more damage types, hitting more and more people....then cry servers cant handle extra work.
Guys and girls...adding even more damage calcs and hitting more and more people to improve performance is not going to work.
1.6 is even worse then 1.5 with 50 target damage than the 6+ target damage.
In a 30 v 30 fight....if 30 people fire off magicka spells with aoe that's upto 1500 damage calcs that have to be done.
In a 30 v 30 fight...if 30 people fire off melee skills single target that's upto 30 damage calcs that have to be done
That's upto 50x the workload because everyone is spamming aoe of some kind instead of single target.
And that's happening every couple of seconds.
Where do you expect all these damage calcs are being held until delivered ?
Did you really expect removing aoe caps and making an even bigger damage queue would help with lag ?
Option 1 - kill off as much AoE as you can.
Option 2 - Use CD to force people outside of the damage radius and reduce the accumulated hit queues.
Option 3 - Limit the size of the hit queue per person and drop/refund hits if too busy to handle the load.
Clearly if as you stated the Graphics/lighting are not the problem...and there is no problem in small battles....then the servers simply cant handle the amount of skills that are being fired. So stop trying to do the impossible.
Or return the AOE cap for PvP.
Which might help a little....but 1.5 wasn't brilliant lets face it.
AND that doesn't help with someone being hit by 20 people at the same time rather than 1 person hitting 20 people at the same time. Both of which have the same effect on the damage queue at the end of the day. Only option 3 can fix both.
Refunding hits would be a bad idea, since hitting to many people could mean that you get more resources back then you originally spend (or at least, thats how i understand it).Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Request more and more damage types, hitting more and more people....then cry servers cant handle extra work.
Guys and girls...adding even more damage calcs and hitting more and more people to improve performance is not going to work.
1.6 is even worse then 1.5 with 50 target damage than the 6+ target damage.
In a 30 v 30 fight....if 30 people fire off magicka spells with aoe that's upto 1500 damage calcs that have to be done.
In a 30 v 30 fight...if 30 people fire off melee skills single target that's upto 30 damage calcs that have to be done
That's upto 50x the workload because everyone is spamming aoe of some kind instead of single target.
And that's happening every couple of seconds.
Where do you expect all these damage calcs are being held until delivered ?
Did you really expect removing aoe caps and making an even bigger damage queue would help with lag ?
Option 1 - kill off as much AoE as you can.
Option 2 - Use CD to force people outside of the damage radius and reduce the accumulated hit queues.
Option 3 - Limit the size of the hit queue per person and drop/refund hits if too busy to handle the load.
Clearly if as you stated the Graphics/lighting are not the problem...and there is no problem in small battles....then the servers simply cant handle the amount of skills that are being fired. So stop trying to do the impossible.
Or return the AOE cap for PvP.
Which might help a little....but 1.5 wasn't brilliant lets face it.
AND that doesn't help with someone being hit by 20 people at the same time rather than 1 person hitting 20 people at the same time. Both of which have the same effect on the damage queue at the end of the day. Only option 3 can fix both.
Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Refunding hits would be a bad idea, since hitting to many people could mean that you get more resources back then you originally spend (or at least, thats how i understand it).Rune_Relic wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Request more and more damage types, hitting more and more people....then cry servers cant handle extra work.
Guys and girls...adding even more damage calcs and hitting more and more people to improve performance is not going to work.
1.6 is even worse then 1.5 with 50 target damage than the 6+ target damage.
In a 30 v 30 fight....if 30 people fire off magicka spells with aoe that's upto 1500 damage calcs that have to be done.
In a 30 v 30 fight...if 30 people fire off melee skills single target that's upto 30 damage calcs that have to be done
That's upto 50x the workload because everyone is spamming aoe of some kind instead of single target.
And that's happening every couple of seconds.
Where do you expect all these damage calcs are being held until delivered ?
Did you really expect removing aoe caps and making an even bigger damage queue would help with lag ?
Option 1 - kill off as much AoE as you can.
Option 2 - Use CD to force people outside of the damage radius and reduce the accumulated hit queues.
Option 3 - Limit the size of the hit queue per person and drop/refund hits if too busy to handle the load.
Clearly if as you stated the Graphics/lighting are not the problem...and there is no problem in small battles....then the servers simply cant handle the amount of skills that are being fired. So stop trying to do the impossible.
Or return the AOE cap for PvP.
Which might help a little....but 1.5 wasn't brilliant lets face it.
AND that doesn't help with someone being hit by 20 people at the same time rather than 1 person hitting 20 people at the same time. Both of which have the same effect on the damage queue at the end of the day. Only option 3 can fix both.
With the hit que you mean that the first X hits will be calculated and the rest will be ignored. That could work. It would basically become a first come, first serve type of thing.
Another option might be (though not to sure how that might work out) that people become immune to any form of damage for X seconds after each hit (not big numbers, maybe 0.5-1 second after each hit) so that running in and spamming AOE's with a group becomes more useless then everyone aiming for a single opponent (shouldn't be an AOE cap in this scenario, for the solo runners)
I am glad one of the leaders is engaged in fixing this. We all love this game and I certainly do. I have invested many hundreds of hours into the game so I have a few thoughts:
There was better performance before around 1.2 and 1.3 and I think your security measures (bots and exploiters) and the patch with "improved lighting" messed things up. There were more ppl in Cyrodil and yet better performance at the time.
The Zergers have way more AP than non zergers. If you do not change that the incentive is to be where the biggest population of players are at. The zergers help you within your faction or to kill other faction players then it won’t be addressed any time soon. If you can’t fix the lag then you need to give incentive to spread out as you say. Also it take a lot of AP to level alliance rank and therefore Assault and Support ranks so the incentive is to farm AP any way you can. Let us level assault and support like any other skill. I for one won’t chase AP as I am chasing AP to get vigor and combat frenzy and the combat medic.
You have reduced damage for siege significantly which used to be the best way to get groups to scatter. This needs to be reversed and buffed up. Neither I nor other ppl in my guild even bother with personnel siege since the update.
Imminent destruction is not the not the zerg buster I was hoping for. The channel time gets lagged out and 2 seconds become 10 and sometimes it does not fire at all and makes it look like I am perma hitchhiking. It should do way more damage like when 6 enemy are near or something like that. It will discourage grouping and zerging. The other ability is soul shatter when you are about to die. It does min damage and should really level the playing field as in really doing tremendous damage but your death is imminent so it’s not ever going to be spammed. Maybe it does min damage when one person is there and scales as more ppl are within 5 meters for example. Players that have this passive are ticking time bombs and if multiple ppl have this then zergs will hesitate running into other groups that all are ticking time bombs that would stack on one another.
Those two abilities should be the hardest hitting abilities in the game and generate min damage alone but more ppl near the damage goes up dramatically but really close proximity say again 5 meters. I put 2 points into soul shatter when close to death but currently this does minimum damage... buff this up considerably. ppl should fear being close to you when you die. Currently, zerging maximizes damage and increase survivability and lowers risk you must address these variables or nothing will change.
Those are my thoughts,
If I might offer just some general ideas how to both achieve this and add to the fun of Cyrodiil:
- Extend the bounty system to add quests to hunt a specific player. Have it give the general area of the map they are currently in, and provide a nice bonus for killing said player! Tie into this more bountiful PvE quests in Cyrodiil and you'll see players start splitting up and then going after one another.
tinythinker wrote: »Would you be interested in a Most Wanted system for Cyrodiil?
A special AP bonus for killing the top ten enemy players in terms of how many kills (with a killing blow) they have against your own Alliance per some regular interval? Say, from 8AM EST one day to 8AM EST the next. In other words, the top ten would be updated at the same time every day, and you could only collect the reward for each player in the top ten once (per day they remain Most Wanted). You would have to home the campaign in which you try to collect the bonus.
Do you think it would add something fun to the AvA experience? What if it came with an achievement series (1, 5, 10 or something)?
[Edited for typos.]
sc_prabhu1986rwb17_ESO wrote: »I blame it all on the lighting patch, that's where it all began for me. Remove it from Cyrodiil, we PvPers don't need no fancy lights. What we need is a stable place to smash each other's heads with wood and metal.
You can keep the fancy lights for places outside of Cyrodiil.
See if that works.
Removing the lighting patch won't help to reduce the server lag. It is related to the FPS drop. Currently the biggest issue in Cyrodiil is the server lag which happens because of the extreme number of the calculations that have to be done in AoE 50vs50 battles.Septimus_Magna wrote: »sc_prabhu1986rwb17_ESO wrote: »I blame it all on the lighting patch, that's where it all began for me. Remove it from Cyrodiil, we PvPers don't need no fancy lights. What we need is a stable place to smash each other's heads with wood and metal.
You can keep the fancy lights for places outside of Cyrodiil.
See if that works.
Great suggestion, maybe include shadow and water reflection to further improve performance in Cyrodiil. I would be totally fine with average graphics in pvp if it would cause less latency problems. I would also suggest making two separate graphic settings, one for pve and one for pvp so players dont have to adjust them when switching between pve and pvp.
This isn't the worst idea, it would give a whole different feel when going to PvP.Remove AoE from game(pvp) and we get that battle, what we see on this video https://youtu.be/MQFxE4AESn4?t=50s. AoE can be present in pvp only a: siege machines, healing, disabling(without any damage: mass stun with AoE cap, negate, etc). Also meele>>range, single>aoe.