Remove AoE from game(pvp) and we get that battle, what we see on this video https://youtu.be/MQFxE4AESn4?t=50s. AoE can be present in pvp only a: siege machines, healing, disabling(without any damage: mass stun with AoE cap, negate, etc). Also meele>>range, single>aoe.
If not already, please consider using designs other non-gaming organizations have used successfully for a long time now. I'm thinking that budget is your constraint though versus talent or technology.
Think of how many calcs/sec apps like Soundhound and Shazaam have to do on HPC systems in order to recognize a song in 2-5 secs. There are many companies that already use massively parallel high-performance cloud computing systems across the globe to do these things.
Another extremely parallel system design that has been in place for a long time is high-frequency electronic trading. Yes there's arbitrage to take advantage of delays but a gaming system could just write off such delays. I bet TradeStation would give you some ideas without giving you their IP. A friend of mine is a developer on their core system and I could make a connection for ZOS, but expect that you'd not need one too.
One thing is for sure, achieving a highly distributed client-to-server design that performs well is within reach and has been for the past 5 years. So this is ZOS's opportunity otherwise someone else is going to eventually.
Agreed, sadly. Edit: I was surprised they only wrote the client in 32-bit but thought they'd port it eventually. Sure wish they had more $.stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »If not already, please consider using designs other non-gaming organizations have used successfully for a long time now. I'm thinking that budget is your constraint though versus talent or technology.
Think of how many calcs/sec apps like Soundhound and Shazaam have to do on HPC systems in order to recognize a song in 2-5 secs. There are many companies that already use massively parallel high-performance cloud computing systems across the globe to do these things.
Another extremely parallel system design that has been in place for a long time is high-frequency electronic trading. Yes there's arbitrage to take advantage of delays but a gaming system could just write off such delays. I bet TradeStation would give you some ideas without giving you their IP. A friend of mine is a developer on their core system and I could make a connection for ZOS, but expect that you'd not need one too.
One thing is for sure, achieving a highly distributed client-to-server design that performs well is within reach and has been for the past 5 years. So this is ZOS's opportunity otherwise someone else is going to eventually.
This is perfectly sound advice, but consider the fact that the game client has serious load balancing issues, and it sounds reasonable to suspect that massively parallel high performance solutions may not be on their roadmap. Their current server load balancing is based on spatial partitioning (zones) and grouping (phases). Redesigning it to use parallel threads to share the workload for a particularly busy area is very likely beyond their reach, if not in skill so at least in time and money.
It's even bad in PvE. I get huge lag spikes even in the Cadwell's Gold areas where there is nobody around. And yet I will have no problem in my own factions main city. It's seems completely random.EskimoBrother wrote: »ZOS_PaulSage wrote: »We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.
No. In fact, the features you added in 1.6 seem to have made the lag much worse(much like every previous patch). It seems like it takes a lot less players for the server to start lagging now. Those "LARGE SCALE BATTLES" your game can supposedly handle are a thing of the past. We've been very patient as players paying for an unfinished product, it's been a year now. Time for you to start showing some results.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
At least the console clients are 64-bit.Agreed, sadly. Edit: I was surprised they only wrote the client in 32-bit but thought they'd port it eventually. Sure wish they had more $.stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »If not already, please consider using designs other non-gaming organizations have used successfully for a long time now. I'm thinking that budget is your constraint though versus talent or technology.
Think of how many calcs/sec apps like Soundhound and Shazaam have to do on HPC systems in order to recognize a song in 2-5 secs. There are many companies that already use massively parallel high-performance cloud computing systems across the globe to do these things.
Another extremely parallel system design that has been in place for a long time is high-frequency electronic trading. Yes there's arbitrage to take advantage of delays but a gaming system could just write off such delays. I bet TradeStation would give you some ideas without giving you their IP. A friend of mine is a developer on their core system and I could make a connection for ZOS, but expect that you'd not need one too.
One thing is for sure, achieving a highly distributed client-to-server design that performs well is within reach and has been for the past 5 years. So this is ZOS's opportunity otherwise someone else is going to eventually.
This is perfectly sound advice, but consider the fact that the game client has serious load balancing issues, and it sounds reasonable to suspect that massively parallel high performance solutions may not be on their roadmap. Their current server load balancing is based on spatial partitioning (zones) and grouping (phases). Redesigning it to use parallel threads to share the workload for a particularly busy area is very likely beyond their reach, if not in skill so at least in time and money.
Worth a try on the PTS. All they have to do is make a debuff in the open areas of Cyrodiil that sets the AoE cap to 0 and disables caltrops. Lore perspective: above ground outside of the city, Molag Bal removed AoE damage to make us suffer.I proposed this idea back in June --> http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/114541/can-we-have-a-campaign-where-all-aoe-dps-skills-are-disabledFizzlewizzle wrote: »This isn't the worst idea, it would give a whole different feel when going to PvP.Remove AoE from game(pvp) and we get that battle, what we see on this video https://youtu.be/MQFxE4AESn4?t=50s. AoE can be present in pvp only a: siege machines, healing, disabling(without any damage: mass stun with AoE cap, negate, etc). Also meele>>range, single>aoe.
Lets all be honest, the battles against a group of people that are "disorganized" and try to take out 1 person at the time are much more fun (and lasting) then the ones where some zerk group rolls over the field and just wipes everything.
If you're in a 1 X Many fight it wont matter if you can or can't aoe, since most will just bombard the single player with spells and skills until he dies. Group gameplay would become a lot more fun and interesting.
Most players didn't like it.
Worth a try on the PTS. All they have to do is make a debuff in the open areas of Cyrodiil that sets the AoE cap to 0 and disables caltrops. Lore perspective: above ground outside of the city, Molag Bal removed AoE damage to make us suffer.I proposed this idea back in June --> http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/114541/can-we-have-a-campaign-where-all-aoe-dps-skills-are-disabledFizzlewizzle wrote: »This isn't the worst idea, it would give a whole different feel when going to PvP.Remove AoE from game(pvp) and we get that battle, what we see on this video https://youtu.be/MQFxE4AESn4?t=50s. AoE can be present in pvp only a: siege machines, healing, disabling(without any damage: mass stun with AoE cap, negate, etc). Also meele>>range, single>aoe.
Lets all be honest, the battles against a group of people that are "disorganized" and try to take out 1 person at the time are much more fun (and lasting) then the ones where some zerk group rolls over the field and just wipes everything.
If you're in a 1 X Many fight it wont matter if you can or can't aoe, since most will just bombard the single player with spells and skills until he dies. Group gameplay would become a lot more fun and interesting.
Most players didn't like it.
If you look at the traffic flow that players need to follow, you see choke points all around the Imperial City. This almost forces players to bunch up.
- Increase number of ownable/siegable resources
PeggymoeXD wrote: »The very first time my friend and I 2-manned an outpost and killed an AD during the cap, I felt like a beast. But the AP reward was literally like killing two v1's. There is almost no incentive to break off and play offensively because defense gives insane amounts of AP in comparison to takes, especially with no resistance. I understand most people will call this PvDooring. But if the goal here is to split people up, taking an outpost to cut reinforcements or just capping a keep's resources to cut its transitus, needs to reward more AP. As of now people only want to do what gets them more AP, and that will ALWAYS be defense.
I agree with all of this but seems to allow the emperor to be flipped much easier. Please address this for our education?Reposted from PvP forum:
First, my world PvP credentials so that you will understand that I know what I am talking about. I lead the following multi-gaming community
http://phoenixbattalion.guildlaunch.com/
Our ESO recruiting message
<Phoenix Battalion> is recruiting! We are a multi-gaming community with over 2000 members. We play Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, WoW and PlanetSide 2. We specialize in large-scale PvP. We have experienced leadership, Teamspeak 3 and a website. /w to join
Our PlanetSide 2 outfit:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/outfit-37509488620618229.php
which has 2349 members, the largest on Emerald-NC.
I have been leading world pvp for more than 10 years, since Planetside 1 in 2003.
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
1. Cyrodiil buffs work in Cyrodiil only - this will eliminate one faction camping one campaign for buffs.
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
3. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
4. Decaying grief system for friendly fire with ability lock - lock player abilities in Cyrodil for excessive friendly fire, starting with 2 minute ability lock and increasing penalties.
5. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
6. Reset emperor when campaign is reset every 24 hours.
7. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
These changes will have the following beneficial effects.
1. Stop campaign camping by one faction
2. End lagsploit.
3. Stop hundreds of players from stacking on top of each other and spamming AE abilities.
4. Incentivize players to play more than one campaign.
5. Make emperor more attainable.
6. Make combat more dynamic and balanced between factions.
How do I know this will work? A system very much like this works great in PlanetSide 2 where no one faction dominates all the time and combat is very dynamic and fluid. PS2 has many ae damage abilities such as grenades and an effective grief system. If you dont want to get weapons lock, dont hit friendlies.
Problem solved, enjoy Cyrodiil pvp.
I agree with all of this but seems to allow the emperor to be flipped much easier. Please address this for our education?Reposted from PvP forum:
First, my world PvP credentials so that you will understand that I know what I am talking about. I lead the following multi-gaming community
http://phoenixbattalion.guildlaunch.com/
Our ESO recruiting message
<Phoenix Battalion> is recruiting! We are a multi-gaming community with over 2000 members. We play Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, WoW and PlanetSide 2. We specialize in large-scale PvP. We have experienced leadership, Teamspeak 3 and a website. /w to join
Our PlanetSide 2 outfit:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/outfit-37509488620618229.php
which has 2349 members, the largest on Emerald-NC.
I have been leading world pvp for more than 10 years, since Planetside 1 in 2003.
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
1. Cyrodiil buffs work in Cyrodiil only - this will eliminate one faction camping one campaign for buffs.
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
3. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
4. Decaying grief system for friendly fire with ability lock - lock player abilities in Cyrodil for excessive friendly fire, starting with 2 minute ability lock and increasing penalties.
5. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
6. Reset emperor when campaign is reset every 24 hours.
7. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
These changes will have the following beneficial effects.
1. Stop campaign camping by one faction
2. End lagsploit.
3. Stop hundreds of players from stacking on top of each other and spamming AE abilities.
4. Incentivize players to play more than one campaign.
5. Make emperor more attainable.
6. Make combat more dynamic and balanced between factions.
How do I know this will work? A system very much like this works great in PlanetSide 2 where no one faction dominates all the time and combat is very dynamic and fluid. PS2 has many ae damage abilities such as grenades and an effective grief system. If you dont want to get weapons lock, dont hit friendlies.
Problem solved, enjoy Cyrodiil pvp.
I agree with all of this but seems to allow the emperor to be flipped much easier. Please address this for our education?Reposted from PvP forum:
First, my world PvP credentials so that you will understand that I know what I am talking about. I lead the following multi-gaming community
http://phoenixbattalion.guildlaunch.com/
Our ESO recruiting message
<Phoenix Battalion> is recruiting! We are a multi-gaming community with over 2000 members. We play Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, WoW and PlanetSide 2. We specialize in large-scale PvP. We have experienced leadership, Teamspeak 3 and a website. /w to join
Our PlanetSide 2 outfit:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/outfit-37509488620618229.php
which has 2349 members, the largest on Emerald-NC.
I have been leading world pvp for more than 10 years, since Planetside 1 in 2003.
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
1. Cyrodiil buffs work in Cyrodiil only - this will eliminate one faction camping one campaign for buffs.
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
3. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
4. Decaying grief system for friendly fire with ability lock - lock player abilities in Cyrodil for excessive friendly fire, starting with 2 minute ability lock and increasing penalties.
5. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
6. Reset emperor when campaign is reset every 24 hours.
7. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
These changes will have the following beneficial effects.
1. Stop campaign camping by one faction
2. End lagsploit.
3. Stop hundreds of players from stacking on top of each other and spamming AE abilities.
4. Incentivize players to play more than one campaign.
5. Make emperor more attainable.
6. Make combat more dynamic and balanced between factions.
How do I know this will work? A system very much like this works great in PlanetSide 2 where no one faction dominates all the time and combat is very dynamic and fluid. PS2 has many ae damage abilities such as grenades and an effective grief system. If you dont want to get weapons lock, dont hit friendlies.
Problem solved, enjoy Cyrodiil pvp.
More opportunities to make emporer seems like a good thing.
ZOS_PaulSage wrote: »Hello everyone,
Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.
Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking.
The_Death_Princess wrote: »
Why is it that when Blue team on Yellow team fight the population can be maxed out, certainly much greater, in the area and the lag is tolerable?
(We believe red team is exploiting this)
keyword - "other games" this is ESO and friendly fire contradicts to RvR. Even if your raid will be in the same alliance with me, I can just wipe you from harm, running past.2. All of my suggestions are based on experience and have been APPLIED SUCCESSFULLY IN OTHER GAMES.
Disabling aoe damage in pvp and switching on Collisions for preventing stacking players in one point.3. NOTHING WILL STOP AE SPAM AND ASSOCIATED LAG FASTER THAN FRIENDLY FIRE.
We must also propose solution for PvE without AoE.I proposed this idea back in June --> http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/114541/can-we-have-a-campaign-where-all-aoe-dps-skills-are-disabled
Most players didn't like it.
keyword - "other games" this is ESO and friendly fire contradicts to RvR. Even if your raid will be in the same alliance with me, I can just wipe you from harm, running past.2. All of my suggestions are based on experience and have been APPLIED SUCCESSFULLY IN OTHER GAMES.Disabling aoe damage in pvp and switching on Collisions for preventing stacking players in one point.3. NOTHING WILL STOP AE SPAM AND ASSOCIATED LAG FASTER THAN FRIENDLY FIRE.We must also propose solution for PvE without AoE.I proposed this idea back in June --> http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/114541/can-we-have-a-campaign-where-all-aoe-dps-skills-are-disabled
Most players didn't like it.
As some people mentionned in this thread, I though that the first objective of Cyrodiil was to introduce large scale PvP. I understand that this could be only a temporary solution to try to split people appart while you guys figure out a better way to solve performance issues, but I don't think this is going in the right direction anyway.
I think that engineers spent more than enough time to try to figure out the way to fix the performance issues in Cyrodiil. It is now time to accept that it isn't going to get better and try to focus on different aspects of PvP that could bring alot of customers / subscribers back.
Yes, I am indeed reffering to Arenas and Battleground. Those small scales instances of PvP would be perfect to suite the desire of battle of many folks and would be lag free.
Before you lose even more players, I think it is time to start considering small scale instances of PvP and spend more time developping those than you spend to fix performance issues in Cyrodiil. I think most will agree that we waited long enough.