Sorcerers were over nerfed... again

Troneon · March 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Watch this stream right now of Deltia playing an awesome Sorc build.

Then tell me sorc is underpowered. lol

He doesn't seem to be playing very seriously (saw him throw on a green level bow) but his DPS numbers are extremely poor in most cases. I doubt he is going for maximum efficiency here though and is just trying to have a good time.

He is still testing the build but seemed pretty awesome to me. He is a min maxer / build tester mostly.

What's wrong with stam builds?

Vahrokh · March 2015

Troneon wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Watch this stream right now of Deltia playing an awesome Sorc build.

Then tell me sorc is underpowered. lol

He doesn't seem to be playing very seriously (saw him throw on a green level bow) but his DPS numbers are extremely poor in most cases. I doubt he is going for maximum efficiency here though and is just trying to have a good time.

He is still testing the build but seemed pretty awesome to me. He is a min maxer / build tester mostly.

What's wrong with stam builds?

Absolutely nothing at all.

In SWTOR I greatly enjoyed playing a Shadow (melee DPS akin to "rogue") and a Sorcerer (because... well... I always play a sorcerer / mage in every MMO). I also played a feral druid in WoW and a mage (and a warlock), both were nice. I even played a Sorceress in Warhammer Online and a Witch Elvess.

What are these? Distinct playstyles, distinct resources being used, different itemization, different range (melee vs ranged).

In ESO we can even play those distinct playstyles within one class. It's cool, really. But it's still distinct playstyles.

Those playing a "traditional" mage immediately went for a magicka specced, light armor, staff wielding sorcerer / sorceress.
Others, for their legitimate reasons, wanted to play them with a totally different playstyle. It's nice, however there's limited overlap between the two specs. Those who want to play a mage, want to play like a mage.
Nothing wrong with stamina, it's just another thing that does not interest many of us.
I also have a NB. I already got my "stamina class fill", no need to copy and paste it on my sorc.

Troneon · March 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Watch this stream right now of Deltia playing an awesome Sorc build.

Then tell me sorc is underpowered. lol

He doesn't seem to be playing very seriously (saw him throw on a green level bow) but his DPS numbers are extremely poor in most cases. I doubt he is going for maximum efficiency here though and is just trying to have a good time.

He is still testing the build but seemed pretty awesome to me. He is a min maxer / build tester mostly.

What's wrong with stam builds?

Absolutely nothing at all.

In SWTOR I greatly enjoyed playing a Shadow (melee DPS akin to "rogue") and a Sorcerer (because... well... I always play a sorcerer / mage in every MMO). I also played a feral druid in WoW and a mage (and a warlock), both were nice. I even played a Sorceress in Warhammer Online and a Witch Elvess.

What are these? Distinct playstyles, distinct resources being used, different itemization, different range (melee vs ranged).

In ESO we can even play those distinct playstyles within one class. It's cool, really. But it's still distinct playstyles.

Those playing a "traditional" mage immediately went for a magicka specced, light armor, staff wielding sorcerer / sorceress.
Others, for their legitimate reasons, wanted to play them with a totally different playstyle. It's nice, however there's limited overlap between the two specs. Those who want to play a mage, want to play like a mage.
Nothing wrong with stamina, it's just another thing that does not interest many of us.
I also have a NB. I already got my "stamina class fill", no need to copy and paste it on my sorc.

So really you want them to balance out stam builds and magi builds so people can be whatever they want / both? Rather than nerf magi builds and buff stams? I understand the reliance on pets a lot of people did not like.

pppontus · March 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

As said previously, sorcs weren't nerfed, at best you can say they are as limited as before. Everything else is just QQ to get more buffs.

No they are somewhat better in certain aspects (finally using "native" class abilities), in others they became bland (must waste 2 + 2 ability slots to toggles, YAWN gameplay), in others they became buggier (pets now randomly aggro bosses, maybe it's luck but I have never seen this happen pre 1.6), in others they became worse.

In particular, having done AA enough to have 5 of every set piece, I can feel it's easier to die and DPS is somewhat less than before. Not by much, your "as limited as before" argument has its merits.
But become a bit worse when we were dead last DPS already... that does not sound right.

When I saw some guys triumphally show off their Sorc doing 1.2k DPS... others 1.4k DPS... well... you KNOW I play in a veeeeeeeery soft core guild, however we had NBs and DKs easily pulling 1.7-1.8k with 1/4 of the effort a sorc would take to do 1.4k. I repeat, NON hard core guild NBs and DKs pulling those numbers vs hard core sorcs pulling those lesser numbers. That in itself is not fair already.
Come patch 1.6, we lose an additional little terrain, but it's an addition to being dead last already.

The fact that pets aggro bosses is completely ridiculous, and needs to be fixed. No arguments there. I don't even use them because I think they're boring tho.

Overall, DPS should be more than before though for most classes, if you consider the average health buff is *7 you only need about 10K to equal 1,4K before.

I'm really and honestly super impressed if you've had NBs (especially) and DKs pull 1,7K+ single target in 1.5, that is absolutely amazing and if they had joined us they would be by far the highest DPS of their respective classes in a pretty good endgame guild (#7 AA, #5 HR). So they might be in a non hardcore guild, but they are not your average players, I can tell you that.

Well, we do play with TehMagnus and some of his friends some times We certainly learned a LOT off them.

By the way which is your build on TF? I am playing the "Zappy end game PvE" build at the moment. Even got so lucky to immediately find the Cyro light rings. However I find the build a bit weird. In example, the first spell has less range than the others whereas logic would suggest to open with the long range stuff first, while you close in.

I didn't think even they were doing 1,7K on true single target, but that I of course don't know for sure. ^^

My build is this one: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-sorceress-petless-by-pppontus-70-cp/

Now, be warned, I am not that good at it (yet, I hope) and my guildies are doing a few K more DPS with the same setup

Emma_Overload · March 2015

As long as you don't mind doing only 2500 DPS (not a typo!), you can use my "Electric Turtle" build that focuses on regen and mitigation to solo pretty much anything in Craglorn, including overland world bosses and delve bosses. Features of the Electric Turtle include:

1) 5 Heavy + 2 Medium armor for max mitigation and a bit of stamina regen.

2) 5 pc. Footman's Fortune and 5 pc. Willow's Path for mitigation and 15% extra regen, respectively.

3) 1H + S are 2 pc. Seducer for the magicka regen. Defensive trait on sword.

4) All jewelry enchanted with gold spell cost reduction glyphs. All armor enchanted with Magicka glyphs with Divine trait.

5) Structured Entropy, Thundering Presence, Lightning Splash, Encase for CC ( I use Shattering morph) and Defensive Posture for the mitigation passive. Use whatever Ultimate you want.

6) Put whatever you want on your off bar: Endless Fury finisher, Resto heals, whatever.

7) Hold down block and use Lightning Splash, whichever morph you prefer, to wear your enemy down over a long period of time. Do a heavy attack whenever you can.

8) Keep Thundering Presence up constantly and spam Entropy whenever you need a healing. Notice in the pic I don't even have any potions, lol.

9) If you're curious about stats, I've been using 31 Magicka + 31 Health mostly, but I recently swithced to 62 Magicka.

10) Atronach Mundus stone is essential for the magicka regen.

11) NO FOOD! I use VR10 purple DRINK for the 3 stat regen.

Three things you WON'T find in this build:

1) Goofy pets.

2) Nerfed Surge heals.

3) Expensive wards.

I made this build as a reaction to all the Sorc nerfs just for fun, but it actually works well, just very SLOWLY, lol.

BTW, I've also been experimenting with Daedric Curse as a damage spell, as "Skarath of the Many" discovered recently:

Nihil · March 2015

I have to ask.... why all the hate that sorcs need to use a weapon skill to achieve dps? Because i have an instant cast dps skill on a weapon to spam i would prefer to have something else rather then a modified "force pulse". Our characters should be required to step outside our class to obtain maximum dps, otherwise what is the point of the other skill lines?

For anyone still asking ZOS to give us a class instant cast skill... i beg please reconsider that thought, because to do so means that something else will be taken away from us, and most likely we will see a decrease in our PVE dps, or utility in PVP/PVE.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

Nihil wrote: »

I have to ask.... why all the hate that sorcs need to use a weapon skill to achieve dps? Because i have an instant cast dps skill on a weapon to spam i would prefer to have something else rather then a modified "force pulse". Our characters should be required to step outside our class to obtain maximum dps, otherwise what is the point of the other skill lines?

For anyone still asking ZOS to give us a class instant cast skill... i beg please reconsider that thought, because to do so means that something else will be taken away from us, and most likely we will see a decrease in our PVE dps, or utility in PVP/PVE.

Easy answer #1: I want an instant cast DPS spell that I can put on the same bar as Resto staff heals. Templars have a zillion spells like this, which is why a Templar can wander around with just a Resto staff and kick ass.

Easy answer #2: I want an instant cast DPS spell that I can put on the same bar as Sword and Shield, so I can block-cast high DPS AND have high mitigation. DKs do this all the time!

Vahrokh · March 2015

Troneon wrote: »

So really you want them to balance out stam builds and magi builds so people can be whatever they want / both?

I really see nothing wrong at making both specs fun and effective.

Troneon wrote: »

Rather than nerf magi builds and buff stams? I understand the reliance on pets a lot of people did not like.

Yeah, pets are something... controversial. Especially for their endless glitches. Yesterday I managed to die to two VR 10 NPCs. Ordered pet to attack them and ... my sorc stopped working. Could not run, could not cast, could not block.
Once they killed the pet then I "unlocked"... right in time to die, as I was very low health at that point.

Thelon · March 2015

I haven't experienced many pet glitches on live. There were rampant problems on the PTS, but most seem to have been ironed out. I've run vet DSA, half a dozen trials and far more dungeons with many different tanks and never had one complain of "stolen aggro."

My pet build is great for solo play and puts out great single target DPS for end-game as well! I think people need to practice their rotations and fine tune their set ups a bit more before asserting that sorcs can't compete in end-game DPS, whether it be a caster or pet build.

Nihil · March 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

I have to ask.... why all the hate that sorcs need to use a weapon skill to achieve dps? Because i have an instant cast dps skill on a weapon to spam i would prefer to have something else rather then a modified "force pulse". Our characters should be required to step outside our class to obtain maximum dps, otherwise what is the point of the other skill lines?

For anyone still asking ZOS to give us a class instant cast skill... i beg please reconsider that thought, because to do so means that something else will be taken away from us, and most likely we will see a decrease in our PVE dps, or utility in PVP/PVE.

Easy answer #1: I want an instant cast DPS spell that I can put on the same bar as Resto staff heals. Templars have a zillion spells like this, which is why a Templar can wander around with just a Resto staff and kick ass.

Easy answer #2: I want an instant cast DPS spell that I can put on the same bar as Sword and Shield, so I can block-cast high DPS AND have high mitigation. DKs do this all the time!

Both of those classes also don't have the chance at casting an instant cast burst (class) spell, and in the case of the DK and neither of which has an instant cast long range spam skill that does equivalent to Force Pulse (NB's are the only ones I think who can claim that, and they lack versatility in their magicka builds atm). Also what would the player base (as a whole) be even willing to sacrifice for it? Turn crystal blast instant cast and have it do CS (due to CC) damage? Pretty sure people would still stick with CF. Change VC into instant damage but reduce damage by ~25-30%, and also removing the potential for a burst combo in pvp? The thing is we don't have many skills that they would change to give us this instant cast that people are asking for, and the ones they would change I don't think people would jump to pick it up over the old version / other morph.

Irista · March 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

After playing 1.6 and reading forum threads that "sorcs are nerfed", i start thinking that something really-really wrong with community. Be glad that after ocean of sorc QQ on forum they made them unkillable in pvp. If you nub and wanna rock in pvp just chose sorc and hit like a track (Crystal shards vs 12000 impenetrable in heavy armor and defensive CP hit for 15k damage, with abusing animation canceling you hitted by fury, shards and crash shock at same time=this is balance sorcs are dreamed of i guess).

Yeah, because in a game where PvP is DEAD, making the vast majoirty of sorcs stink in PvE and a tiny minority good in PvP is certainly going to help with ZoS bottom line!

THANK YOU @Vahrokh In all of the MMOs I've played, I have noticed a trend - the smallest part of the community is the loudest (here in ESO it's the PvPers, and is also true in a lot of other games).

One thing I think ZOS should do - and it is something they have already dipped a toe into - is balance the classes based on PvE and then use a buff and debuff system in Cyrodiil.

Tired of people one-shotting you in PvP? No problem. *upon entering cyrodiil all damage is reduced by 25%*
Buff everyone's health. Reduce effectiveness of shields/bubbles/reflects (as a sorc, saying this makes me cringe, but I'll live with it), and reduce all damage done by EVERYONE.

There. Fixed.

Everyone can go and get their gear in PvE like they already do, and when we get into Cyrodiil we don't have everyone crying that sorcs are critting for 15k.

And wake up. We're paper bags in light armor. We might "crit you for 15k" but I can assure you a max ranged critical charge + execute will take me out instantly.

Not to mention this would fix the 1-2 shot deaths from stealth that shouldn't be possible anyhow in PvP content. (my opinion, but also a running theme in other MMOs). Cyrodiil was made to be zerg, sieging, etc.. not a snipe camp fest.

I'm sure my rage post will be picked apart by the folks trolling here, but as an example using WoW - they balanced PvP by using a buff/debuff system as well.

Or ZoS could do it like every. other. mmo. and make some stats for PvP only (aka resilience, whatever) and give gear FOR PvP that is only achieved by PvPing.

/endragepost.

Cuyler wrote: »

The fact that class balance is tied to PvP and PvE alike means we're screwed. Make a change good for PvP it breaks PvE. A good change to PvE means its now OP in PvP. just can't win.

^ agreed.

jasonquigley646_ESO · March 2015

Ok I get that this is an Elder Scrolls game, we do what we want, how we want, wearing what we want, weilding what we want....however...

Stamina....Sorceror....is anyone who has spent any time in any other fantasy based game or even watched a fantasy based movie having a hard time swallowing this concept? (I can hear the stamina sorc fanboys flaming me before i even finish typing out this thought.). When has a sorceror....you know...they guy that weilds magic, flames, ice, and summons demons....ever been associated with have amazing amounts of stamina, or have his abilities powers be associated with his prowess in an inherently physical attribute?

Yes, it sounds completely "old school" of me to even bring this up, but its the absolute truth. Am I being stereotypical of what a sorceror should look and feel like (feel link in terms of playing one you pervs....im not touching your sorc), hell yes I am....and there is about 50+ years of inspiration behind what a Sorceror is which I am sure influeced this game.

Maybe I'm just venting, maybe I'm just pissed that I wasted alot of time playing a Sorc and I have to grind all that questing, shard gathering, gear hunting, all over again on a different toon because I find it completely boring and ridiculous to play the Sorceror class like a melee class and ignore just about all their magical abilities.

I am not saying there shouldn't be the option, but the power tilt seems to be backwards..Sorc's that use magic (as they normally do) should be the prodominant damage dealers for their class and the stamina version should be middle of the road.

Vizier · March 2015

Sorcs were not over-nerfed. IMH and correct opinion. In fact I could stand to see more chopped off the top.

Nihil · March 2015

jasonquigley646_ESO wrote: »

Ok I get that this is an Elder Scrolls game, we do what we want, how we want, wearing what we want, weilding what we want....however...

Stamina....Sorceror....is anyone who has spent any time in any other fantasy based game or even watched a fantasy based movie having a hard time swallowing this concept? (I can hear the stamina sorc fanboys flaming me before i even finish typing out this thought.). When has a sorceror....you know...they guy that weilds magic, flames, ice, and summons demons....ever been associated with have amazing amounts of stamina, or have his abilities powers be associated with his prowess in an inherently physical attribute?

Yes, it sounds completely "old school" of me to even bring this up, but its the absolute truth. Am I being stereotypical of what a sorceror should look and feel like (feel link in terms of playing one you pervs....im not touching your sorc), hell yes I am....and there is about 50+ years of inspiration behind what a Sorceror is which I am sure influeced this game.

Maybe I'm just venting, maybe I'm just pissed that I wasted alot of time playing a Sorc and I have to grind all that questing, shard gathering, gear hunting, all over again on a different toon because I find it completely boring and ridiculous to play the Sorceror class like a melee class and ignore just about all their magical abilities.

I am not saying there shouldn't be the option, but the power tilt seems to be backwards..Sorc's that use magic (as they normally do) should be the prodominant damage dealers for their class and the stamina version should be middle of the road.

Dresden files, and the Sword of Truth series are 2 fantasy based books that pop to mind where a primarily (or at least strong) spell caster has a descent amount of stamina. Also when looking at the class at launch it screamed more "weapon master" then "sling spells and deal amazing damage spell caster". A name is just a name, we define our perceived visions from the lore we are most familiar with, a large sum of those I think derive from DnD and/or Tolken.

With that tho, I don't think any stamina sorc wants to take fire power away from magicka sorcs, there is just the want to be as viable in that role. Pre 1.6 Stamina sorcs had the best weapon damage available in the game, after the patch we have the best stamina but that doesn't provide a large sum in comparison to what some of the other classes got in regards to stamina use.

The power tilt right now actually favors melee over range in general, just as the main melee magicka class is DK, it looks more like a stamina vs magicka issue. I personally believe melee range skills should be more powerful, but to compensate mechanics need to be put into place to punish those who aren't able to time their skills, and know when to GTFO. Also the more damage a player does take the more stress it puts on the healer, in some cases that is fine, but if the healer has to spend to much time healing they aren't as capable of keeping up damaging abilities them self (when applicable) so could be netting the group a loss in DPS (not everything is about individual numbers). Food for thought.

franka38rwb17_ESO · March 2015

All those people citing flavour for a reason sorcerers should have limitied stamina build options need to go play TES:IV as the spellsword or battlemage class. Then they need to realise that heavy armor isn't as good as medium armor for that (increasingly so when crit surge is viable). and then you get the TESO version of the battlemage.

Snit · March 2015

The nerf to Surge healing has not had the impact I expected. I was concerned that it might affect my ability to solo multiple packs in Spellscar, or to handle certain packs in dungeons (e.g., the pulls of a billion spiders in vet Spindleclutch). It has not.

The new surge, combined with the nerf to light armor mitigation and the increased stam cost of block, means that sorcs can't tank with their health bar and heals. Happily, we have another option -- those absorb shields are that good. You may end up casting it quite a lot, but you will likely find that there's no content you could do before that you cannot do now, at least not strictly because of self-healing issues.

Conjured Ward is now our 'class heal.' It's good.

(This is from the POV of a VR14 magicka sorc who spends time in Cyrodiil, in Vet Dungeons or just solo grinding).

NotSo · March 2015

Having a full ability bar of Mage Guild abilities is offering more spell power (because of bonus to max magicka per mage guild ability) than the new Expert Mage and a full bar of Sorcerer abilities. Seems nuts.

Farorin · March 2015

Sorcs are not underpowered, they are strong, just yesterday, my wife and myself, after successfully ganking various classes and builds, got messed up by a lone sorc, that we were both able to land a sneak attack on.

Every time I log onto my sorc Alt. I am surprised at how strong I am because I am used to having to try a lot harder to get the same results.

Inactive Account · March 2015

Just posting here cus I can, but ....Wow, what a GOOD, In depth thread; one of the best out there.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

jasonquigley646_ESO wrote: »

Ok I get that this is an Elder Scrolls game, we do what we want, how we want, wearing what we want, weilding what we want....however...

Stamina....Sorceror....is anyone who has spent any time in any other fantasy based game or even watched a fantasy based movie having a hard time swallowing this concept? (I can hear the stamina sorc fanboys flaming me before i even finish typing out this thought.). When has a sorceror....you know...they guy that weilds magic, flames, ice, and summons demons....ever been associated with have amazing amounts of stamina, or have his abilities powers be associated with his prowess in an inherently physical attribute?

Yes, it sounds completely "old school" of me to even bring this up, but its the absolute truth. Am I being stereotypical of what a sorceror should look and feel like (feel link in terms of playing one you pervs....im not touching your sorc), hell yes I am....and there is about 50+ years of inspiration behind what a Sorceror is which I am sure influeced this game.

Maybe I'm just venting, maybe I'm just pissed that I wasted alot of time playing a Sorc and I have to grind all that questing, shard gathering, gear hunting, all over again on a different toon because I find it completely boring and ridiculous to play the Sorceror class like a melee class and ignore just about all their magical abilities.

I am not saying there shouldn't be the option, but the power tilt seems to be backwards..Sorc's that use magic (as they normally do) should be the prodominant damage dealers for their class and the stamina version should be middle of the road.

I hear you, and I agree with much of what you are saying, however...

I would like to point out that there ARE precedents for stamina/melee type "sorcerers". Shaolin monks from kung fu movies are kind of like this, performing amazing feats that are superhuman and supernatural but clearly using physical actions as a vehicle for their mystical powers. If you read the books on which the "Conan the Barbarian" movie are based, you'll also find a number of melee weapon wielders who are kind of sorcerer like. Even Gandalf carried a sword! Just sayin'

jasonquigley646_ESO · March 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

jasonquigley646_ESO wrote: »

Ok I get that this is an Elder Scrolls game, we do what we want, how we want, wearing what we want, weilding what we want....however...

Stamina....Sorceror....is anyone who has spent any time in any other fantasy based game or even watched a fantasy based movie having a hard time swallowing this concept? (I can hear the stamina sorc fanboys flaming me before i even finish typing out this thought.). When has a sorceror....you know...they guy that weilds magic, flames, ice, and summons demons....ever been associated with have amazing amounts of stamina, or have his abilities powers be associated with his prowess in an inherently physical attribute?

Yes, it sounds completely "old school" of me to even bring this up, but its the absolute truth. Am I being stereotypical of what a sorceror should look and feel like (feel link in terms of playing one you pervs....im not touching your sorc), hell yes I am....and there is about 50+ years of inspiration behind what a Sorceror is which I am sure influeced this game.

Maybe I'm just venting, maybe I'm just pissed that I wasted alot of time playing a Sorc and I have to grind all that questing, shard gathering, gear hunting, all over again on a different toon because I find it completely boring and ridiculous to play the Sorceror class like a melee class and ignore just about all their magical abilities.

I am not saying there shouldn't be the option, but the power tilt seems to be backwards..Sorc's that use magic (as they normally do) should be the prodominant damage dealers for their class and the stamina version should be middle of the road.

I hear you, and I agree with much of what you are saying, however...

I would like to point out that there ARE precedents for stamina/melee type "sorcerers". Shaolin monks from kung fu movies are kind of like this, performing amazing feats that are superhuman and supernatural but clearly using physical actions as a vehicle for their mystical powers. If you read the books on which the "Conan the Barbarian" movie are based, you'll also find a number of melee weapon wielders who are kind of sorcerer like. Even Gandalf carried a sword! Just sayin'

I thought about the whole "monk" concept as well and even tried to rationalize it, but then I look at at the skills across all the different sorc skill lines....nothing there is stamina based. This discussion largely deals with our own personal "flavor" of a sorceror. If there was a spirit magic skill line, nature magic, etc type skill lines that could compliment and make sense for a stamina type build it would be easier to accept I guess.

Malpherian · March 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do still have plans to make stamina-based Sorcerer builds more competitive. That said, it’s going to take some time to make comprehensive changes that are balanced, fully tested (both internally and on the PTS), and also include appropriate visual effects. We’re currently keeping an eye on data since Update 6 was published, and have some ideas on what we’d like to pursue. What would you all like to see to make stamina Sorcs a more viable build to use?

Why the hell would you give a "MAGIC" based class the ability to use stamina for their skills? I think you are completely "Oblivious" to the point of being a sorcerer..... People choose a sorcerer, because they want to use "MAGIC".....

If you think the sorces lack of ability to choose stamina builds is the issue you're missing the point entirely. If the games Devs are as Oblivious as you as to the actual problems with the classes, and the the game in general, I am un- installing it right now. Because this game is doomed to fail.

"The point people are trying to make is that they "SHOULDN'T have to" in order to be competitive." Among other things.

Drazhar14 · March 2015

I hate the cooldown on crit surge. It always procs off my lightning form so it heals me for very small amounts then when I do my big damage crits with other abilities I get no healing. Ugh.

Reykice · March 2015

Malpherian wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do still have plans to make stamina-based Sorcerer builds more competitive. That said, it’s going to take some time to make comprehensive changes that are balanced, fully tested (both internally and on the PTS), and also include appropriate visual effects. We’re currently keeping an eye on data since Update 6 was published, and have some ideas on what we’d like to pursue. What would you all like to see to make stamina Sorcs a more viable build to use?

Why the hell would you give a "MAGIC" based class the ability to use stamina for their skills? I think you are completely "Oblivious" to the point of being a sorcerer..... People choose a sorcerer, because they want to use "MAGIC".....

If you think the sorces lack of ability to choose stamina builds is the issue you're missing the point entirely. If the games Devs are as Oblivious as you as to the actual problems with the classes, and the the game in general, I am un- installing it right now. Because this game is doomed to fail.

"The point people are trying to make is that they "SHOULDN'T have to" in order to be competitive." Among other things.

The dual wield reaver build(melee) was very popular and still is tho many use a 2h now. Just because you see a class in a way it does not mean that it should be like that.

Why would you rage quit if they are giving the stamina players who use a sorcerer buffs? Why all this turning on each other?

Pecivilis · March 2015

Malpherian wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do still have plans to make stamina-based Sorcerer builds more competitive. That said, it’s going to take some time to make comprehensive changes that are balanced, fully tested (both internally and on the PTS), and also include appropriate visual effects. We’re currently keeping an eye on data since Update 6 was published, and have some ideas on what we’d like to pursue. What would you all like to see to make stamina Sorcs a more viable build to use?

Why the hell would you give a "MAGIC" based class the ability to use stamina for their skills? I think you are completely "Oblivious" to the point of being a sorcerer..... People choose a sorcerer, because they want to use "MAGIC".....

If you think the sorces lack of ability to choose stamina builds is the issue you're missing the point entirely. If the games Devs are as Oblivious as you as to the actual problems with the classes, and the the game in general, I am un- installing it right now. Because this game is doomed to fail.

"The point people are trying to make is that they "SHOULDN'T have to" in order to be competitive." Among other things.

Reykice · March 2015

Drazhar14 wrote: »

I hate the cooldown on crit surge. It always procs off my lightning form so it heals me for very small amounts then when I do my big damage crits with other abilities I get no healing. Ugh.

Yes, this is like the first issue raised when the CD was introduced... buuuut ZENIMAX ignored it. Its the same problem for every build that uses any kind of small damage component, dots, aoe etc.

If they are serious about helping the class, this is one of the things that needs changing. Just give it some kind of cap like 3 healing procs every 0.5 seconds or something like that. Other classes have way better AOE healing anyway, Templars on the PTS were soloing anomalies with Puncturing Strikes(no clue how many Champion Points they had)

Vahrokh · March 2015

I have reported a lot of issues I am getting while doing trials in there.

kkampaseb17_ESO · March 2015

Malpherian wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do still have plans to make stamina-based Sorcerer builds more competitive. That said, it’s going to take some time to make comprehensive changes that are balanced, fully tested (both internally and on the PTS), and also include appropriate visual effects. We’re currently keeping an eye on data since Update 6 was published, and have some ideas on what we’d like to pursue. What would you all like to see to make stamina Sorcs a more viable build to use?

Why the hell would you give a "MAGIC" based class the ability to use stamina for their skills? I think you are completely "Oblivious" to the point of being a sorcerer..... People choose a sorcerer, because they want to use "MAGIC".....

If you think the sorces lack of ability to choose stamina builds is the issue you're missing the point entirely. If the games Devs are as Oblivious as you as to the actual problems with the classes, and the the game in general, I am un- installing it right now. Because this game is doomed to fail.

"The point people are trying to make is that they "SHOULDN'T have to" in order to be competitive." Among other things.

I seriously don't know how to answer to this post. The one person who is oblivious is obviously you. You are missing the very distinct playstyle of the elemental warrior aka fighter/mage that is very stereotypical for RPGs. This can be replicated only on Sorcerer properly since it is the only class with weapon buff and was like this from the very start since last April.

So no. Please refrain from posting about other people and why they have picked the Sorcerer class. Speak for yourself and only for yourself. Such bad assumptions and generalizations are really unnecessary.

Khazai · March 2015

Troneon wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Watch this stream right now of Deltia playing an awesome Sorc build.

Then tell me sorc is underpowered. lol

He doesn't seem to be playing very seriously (saw him throw on a green level bow) but his DPS numbers are extremely poor in most cases. I doubt he is going for maximum efficiency here though and is just trying to have a good time.

He is still testing the build but seemed pretty awesome to me. He is a min maxer / build tester mostly.

What's wrong with stam builds?

Since this was a live stream, can someone point to the build he used as we cannot see it anymore?

I'm also currently playing a 2H stam sorc (same build as in 1.5), and I love it. I prefer it over magicka/light builds, since I love the playstyle, and always wanted to play a "combat mage" since having played diablo 2 back then ...

I switched to magicka build after 1.6 because I read stamina builds are bad now, but I failed to find a build which I really like. I dont like pets, so I was bound to use one of those builds relying on force shock for DPS. While the builds will make sense to most sorc players, I really cant stand the most ugliest spell I've ever used in a game - force shock. The animation is ugly, the sound is uber-annoying, and the worst thing is, you have to spam it like crazy with those builds. This was one of the main reasons I switched back to 2H/stam, and I still survive in my current VR4 content.

I'm also leveling heavy armor and sword/board, because I'm going to try out tanking a bit, but most likely my main playstyle will remain 2H/stam, unless the engame teaches me otherwise.

Spangla · March 2015

Unfortunately - Magica NB has been killed, Magica nb will now never be as good as mgaica sorc, not even close.

Why do sorcs need a competitive stamina build? They are running around one shotting people in pvp! Please ZOS STOP LISTENING TO THESE PEOPLE! Threads like this are the reason you released this fail patch in the first place