Samadhi wrote: »

Please also increase the rate of exp generation for performing all Legerdemain tasks.

The skill line levels fine, but it does not feel like it is contributing to overall character progress.

In previous games, playing as a Thief was a valid way to level up through the game; presently in ESO it is a fun system that is tacked on as something extra.

It would be great to see this system incorporated to meaningful character development. Would love to level while roleplaying a shifty thief, but presently it just is not a viable option.

I've been getting Legerdemain experience at a reasonable rate. I haven't really played my thief much since 1.6 launched and I'm already level 6. If you could max it quickly, the progression wouldn't be as fun.

jwboudreau1b16_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Please also increase the rate of exp generation for performing all Legerdemain tasks.

The skill line levels fine, but it does not feel like it is contributing to overall character progress.

In previous games, playing as a Thief was a valid way to level up through the game; presently in ESO it is a fun system that is tacked on as something extra.

It would be great to see this system incorporated to meaningful character development. Would love to level while roleplaying a shifty thief, but presently it just is not a viable option.

I've been getting Legerdemain experience at a reasonable rate. I haven't really played my thief much since 1.6 launched and I'm already level 6. If you could max it quickly, the progression wouldn't be as fun.

As was stated in the post you quoted, the leveling of the skill line is fine. Not asking for that to be sped up, it is paced well.
The skill line levels independently of experience gains, as each task has its own amount that it levels the skill line by.

What playing as a thief does not do is provide sufficient experience (Vet rank experience or Champion Rank experience) for a character to level up by being a thief.

It makes it feel tacked-on, rather than a meaningful part of character development.

Brandalf wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Make the system finishable within a reasonable time or you alienate your current and future playerbase.

It's not a system that's intended to be finished. How this is such a difficult concept to understand for so many people baffles me.

its a system for 24/7 farmers it feels like work
all things which does not give max xp now feel worthless
a game should be there to play not to worry about stats the hole time

One thing that my spouse mentioned is that daily dungeons could reward you 1 CP.

That way, you're encouraged to do daily dungeons, which would help with the group finder issues because more players would be doing them. Right now, if you aren't interested in gear farming, there's not much incentive to do dungeons. Just a thought, but I thought that it was a good idea!

Copypaste from a thread I just created:

Problem: One freaking CP needs 400k XP and you get 400k englightenment per day, but there is no way for a casual to earn that much. I am not going to grind mobs 1-2 hours every day unless ZOS pays me for it. If I can't earn 2 - 4 CP per hour playing normal, then I will just quit the game. Like I've quit it 10 months ago after my first character hit VR1. I thought ZOS would've learned by now...

Solution: Reduce the requirement for CP to 100k XP and increase XP rewards from daily quests. Give the people different options how to achieve their CP with the daily enlightenment bonus. There are easy ways to do it by linking XP rewards to daily quests e.g.:

• Completing undaunted dailies should net enough XP for 2 - 4 CP
• Completing daily trial quests should net enough XP for 2 - 4 CP
• Completing daily PvP quests should net enough XP for 2 - 4 CP
• Completing 2 - 4 high level crafting writs should net enough XP for 1 - 2 CP
• Completing daily legendermain (to be implemented) should net enough XP for 1 - 2 CP
• And people who want to grind mobs, can still grind mobs for 2 - 4 CP first hour
• Not sure what other possibilities ESO can easily offer at the moment...

(Remember that only the first 4 CP would be with the enlightenment bonus, so doing all the daily quests above on the same day would not give ~20CP but more like 6 - 8 CP)

This stuff can be implemented easily. A casual should be able to make 4 CP a day with stuff he actually enjoys. People who invest more time will always have superior stats, so ZOS please save your time looking for mob grinding spots to nerf and just encourage different styles of playing instead. You are not giving us any alternatives.

I have two hours a day and with a system like above I would average 5 - 6 CP per day (including burning up the 400k englightenment per day). Cash shop items could boost that up to 8 - 12 CP per day and I would be fine with it (live and let live guys). ZOS falsely assumes that they have to keep CP gain extremely low so people will sub for a longer time. But I think right now people will just quit because they can't see any progress or any future to reach a decent amount of CP. This exactly my concern right now. The CP system got released and I have not earned 1 single CP so far, while people grinding mobs are in the two hundres already.

Seriously ZOS. Pull yourself together...

I've posted this before but figured I'd copy it here:

How about a system not based on time or xp?

How about giving a preset number of champion points per day based on completed objectives. For instance, lets say an account can earn up to 10 champion points in a day maximum but each of those champion points is awarded upon the completion of an objective such as:

"Complete both undaunted dungeon dailies"
"Complete X crafting dailies"
"Complete X pvp dailies"
"Complete <insert trial name>"
"Complete DSA"
"Earn X alliance points"
"Catch the rare <insert fish name> fish from <insert zone>"
"Help capture X keeps, scrolls, or resources"
"Mine/Pick/Chop/Extract/Collect X resource nodes"
"Kill X <insert mob name> in <insert level appropriate zone>"
"Steal X items without being caught by a guard"
"Pickpocket X items without being caught by a guard"
"Literally anything that takes some amount of measurable effort that players like to do anyways"

Now here is the interesting part, the player is given the opportunity to choose which 10 of these objectives to complete to earn their daily champion points from a list of 12-16 possibilities. Furthermore, the list is randomly generated and may have multiple objectives to do the same thing or slight variances where applicable. The randomness could be based on how "easy" or how much time the objective practically takes so things like harvesting resources would be available less often because it is relatively easy, but often enough because it can be time consuming.

What this does:

Prevents players from having to grind for anything except if they choose the grindy objective.

Randomization prevents players from picking the same thing over and over and will effectively average that player's ability to complete the objectives (If players could pick what they were good at all the time they would have too easy a time). Forcing players to complete at least some of their least favorite / hardest to complete things mixes the game up for them and guarantees all players average about the same amount of time to gain all their points over time.

Allows Crafters, PVErs, PVPrs, Grinders, Farmers, Fishers, Thieves, etc. equal access to the champion system. (Sorry RPrs, I don't RP so I can't think of a measurable objective for you, maybe you can).

Allows all players an equal opportunity to advance in the champion system at the same rate. It would also be possible to implement 3 days worth of champion point "backlog" to a player, allowing them to earn up to 30 champion points if they missed a few days or didn't finish an objective from the day before, but no more than 30 after the 3rd day.

Gives PVP players a viable option to gain champion points without worrying about the xp rates in Cyrodiil. They will just do what they normally do to earn a point, but can't earn them all doing just PVP unless RNG works out for them.

Gives VR14 characters viable options to gain champion points and does not punish those having completed most quests/achievements/events/etc.

Does not require players to create alts just for additional sources of XP.

Prevents any player from gaining a significant advantage over any other player who plays an average amount of time per day. Players who join later or do not have the ability to play every 3 days may be awarded additional champion points per day if they are significantly far behind (say 6 - 8 months down the road when others have 2/3-3/4 the points).

Does not allow players to sit idle and gain champion points on a daily basis based on a timed release of points.

Does not make certain time frames of xp gain worth wildly larger amounts for no apparent reason (current enlightenment). Instead merely allows players to choose alternative objectives so they can actually play the way they want in order to earn their points.

Many other wonderful things can come of this system. Given a proper set of difficult/time consuming/measurable accomplishments and objectives every single player's play style could be accounted for and given equal weight.

This system would make the champion system 3600 times better than the current implementation (see what I did there).

Please feel free to comment on this, I would love to hear your feedback. Constructive criticism is welcome.

Thought we were supposed to get around 1 CP and hour. I'm earning about one per DAY in PvP.

(1) Daily Pledges and trails are not worth doing for CP
(2) Craglorn daily quests did gave TONS of exp towards CP, but is now nerfed, those that farmed them for 200+ CP, do they get to keep them?
(3) Should there be a daily limit? So those who find bugged grinds spots, its automatically fixed?
(4) What is ESO 'expected, CP earn rate? 1 - 10 per day?
(One every hour when enlightened, one every 4 hrs hours when not.)
(5) Do V14's have any good exp\cp earning spots now? Or are we forced to level V1 toons and get quest exp?

Ok there are still a few good spots still but I am guessing ESO will class them bugged like the Craglorn daily and soon be FIXED, so you can't get CP per hour.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We've been reading your posts and understand that many of you are frustrated over recent developments in the game including how you gain Champion Points, how often you're able to gain a Point, how you can gain XP (and therefore, get Champion Points!), among a number of other things. We'd like you to tell us what you'd like to see instead, or how you'd like to do something differently than what's currently offered.

We can tell you that we are planning to adjust XP that you receive from dungeons and Trials so they offer a more viable way to level and/or receive Champion Points. We also are continuing to hammer on the Enlightenment issues that many of you are experiencing - we want to make sure it works so you can get the Points you deserve. Tell us what's been frustrating you, and we'll do our best to address it. Just remember to stay constructive and respectful - you're allowed to not like something, but tell us why and what we can do to make it better.

Thanks!

Well, the last night XP nerf was huge. At the moment we can not do anything to get CP properly.

The reason is, that there is no viable content to do to earn XP. If you at ZOS do not want us to grind, we need proper content for XP.

As you said, for example Trials and dailies.

- We completed Sanctum Ophidia today, we got approx. 70k XP - this should be like 250k XP for one finished run - it is hard content. And for example if people got with their points to top 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 -> this should give XP bonus on completing the Trial quest.

- My opinion is, that completing Veteran Arena should be one complete CP - 400k XP - this is more harder than SO - and then the same with TOP positions and bonus XP.

- Daily Pledge dungeon should give something about 150k XP and not like atm, it gives 10k from dungeon and 10k from Quest.

Imagine, that people do dailies and then maybe one Sanctum Ophidia or Veteran arena run, after what their Real Life calls them. So, 2 points/day is not that much.
To be sure, that the all the day players can not gain so so much CP, for example after a daily limit of 5 points, they will receive 50% of XP - which penalty resets at midnight.

Enlightenment should be active on account, when people are offline for 12h; then this system should give min. 2 CP from the mentioned daily 5.

These changes can offer daily max 5 CP for players - is this really so much? 3600 is the max. Daily 5x365 = approx 1600/year if people playing actively on daily base.

To avoid exploiters and hardcore grinders, lets make softcap of daily max 8 points, but as I said, after 5th point, with 50% less XP receive.

There is no VR level xp to get for a solo player apart from Caldwell silver and gold in the entire game. When you combine this with enlightened giving x4 xp but only for 1 cp per day then you force solo players to choose between only play for an hour a day doing quests or waste 75% of the possible champion xp available to them before the solo content runs out.

I suggest that you do away with the enlightened system and reduce the cost of CPs to 200k each. This will give players much greater freedom in playing like they want.

Then you need to increase the cp xp gain in pvp to about 4 times greater than they are now. Not the quest rewards but the basic reward for killing enemy players and taking or defending pvp objectives.

Last for the love of god, begin to put soloable repeatable content into the game that is not in Cyrodiil! When daoc got its champion system they also put in the random instances that scaled to group size to everyone always had some way to get those champ xp.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , this thread is the right thing to do in the current situation. I'll try and list the CP related problems that I can think of.

1. First and foremost, the perception of the whole CP system is a problem. Right now, it is designed to be never-ending. But right now, quite a few (or maybe a lot?) players don't accept this. Why? Because it is so STRONG. There are diminishing returns, yes; but if I can get +25% damage, -20% (or so) spell costs + X by having 360CP (10% of total), a lot of players will actively aim for those numbers instead of just picking up bonuses along the way. Furthermore, new player need a long, long time to get these bonuses. By the time they get them, "older" players have gained even more PC, making them even stronger in almost every aspect of this game (Dungeons, Trials, PvP). On top of the bonuses, they accumulate raw stats that add up quite significantly over time.

2. Bugs with Enlightment. I guess those will be fixed very soon, which solves one of the problems. I don't like to say that, but something has to be done about the CP that were earned because the buff never ended. I don't think players should be overly punished because they got this bug, but this puts them at an advantage that can possibly never be evened out by any player. Please think about this, and find a fair solution.

3. XP (and therefore CP) gain. You said you're going to do something about Trial/Dungeon XP, fine. What about PvP? There are players that don't want to do PvE just to be competitive. Give us a viable way of gaining CP when we choose to only play PvP! I've read somewhere here on the forums that you are aware of players racking up significant numbers of XP in PvP; but those are a very small minority. Balance the XP gain for the majority, not the other way round. Additionally, why are you nerfing grind spots? First, if players decide to spend hours doing the same boring stuff all over and over just to get progress on a (supposed to be) never-ending system, there is a major flaw somehwere in this system. Second, players don't want to be forced into a certain way of acquiring XP. I don't really like questing, why can't I get the XP somewhere else? This is also a huge problem for the VR ranks, which should've been removed with 1.6. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the average player will need some weeks to go from lvl 50 to v14, just to find out that he/she has made 13 million XP = 32,5 CP. He/she will need another 57,5 to unlock some very powerful passives (+12% crit chance) and so on. Everyone can see the huge rewards that are inside the Champion System, but also the painful grind to get there - all while knowing that they're not able to catch up to someone who plays this game more often/started earlier. They never will. Also: why do you punish players XP-wise in a group with more than than two players?

4. Impact on PvP/PvE. The CP system gives bonuses to about everything that could be important in this game, plus raw stats that come for free and are always useful (since damage/healing/tanking capabilities are directly tied to those stats). In my eyes, it is okay that more seasoned players have an advantage to newcomers. But, let's make up some numbers, 20% more damage, 15% lower spell cost, higher regen, more HP/Magicka/Stamina and so on? This is plain unfair, even more if you know that the newbie can't catch up. They will eventually get the extra damage, but guess what? The veteran player already maxed out the defense, so yeah. Another year needed to be on par. Also, I'm curious if you came to a conclusion here: How will you balance the existing and new PvE content? New players hitting a wall, or free loot and boredom for veteran players? Neither of this is good.

In my eyes, this are the major problems. But what about solutions? I haven't spend that much time on them, but my ideas so far are:

• Weaken the CP system, or speed up progress: Back to my firedamage example, either cap the damage at, let's say, 15% or keep it at 25% while putting the 20% threshold at 50CP or so.
• Even out XP gain throughout every major game aspect: Questing, Dungeons/Trials, PvP. If you feel you have to, cap the CP/week in a way that it is reachable by 60% of the players, while 20% get less and 20% would get more otherwise. This should be fair. Would be nice to combine this with the point above in a way that players get, let's say, 75% of the power inherent to the CP system within a year
• Please: tell us about your ideas of progression (other than the CP system) - Dungeons/Trials tied to an amount of CP?
• Introduce ways for solo players to get XP besides the Silver/Gold quests. That doesn't concern me at all, but seeing that you try to appeal your ES playerbase already this would only be fair.

Can't think of much more. Whatever ZOS decides to do, a statement on it (rather very soon, before 17th of March) is mandatory. Thanks for reading

xherics wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We've been reading your posts and understand that many of you are frustrated over recent developments in the game including how you gain Champion Points, how often you're able to gain a Point, how you can gain XP (and therefore, get Champion Points!), among a number of other things. We'd like you to tell us what you'd like to see instead, or how you'd like to do something differently than what's currently offered.

We can tell you that we are planning to adjust XP that you receive from dungeons and Trials so they offer a more viable way to level and/or receive Champion Points. We also are continuing to hammer on the Enlightenment issues that many of you are experiencing - we want to make sure it works so you can get the Points you deserve. Tell us what's been frustrating you, and we'll do our best to address it. Just remember to stay constructive and respectful - you're allowed to not like something, but tell us why and what we can do to make it better.

Thanks!

Well, the last night XP nerf was huge. At the moment we can not do anything to get CP properly.

The reason is, that there is no viable content to do to earn XP. If you at ZOS do not want us to grind, we need proper content for XP.

As you said, for example Trials and dailies.

- We completed Sanctum Ophidia today, we got approx. 70k XP - this should be like 250k XP for one finished run - it is hard content. And for example if people got with their points to top 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 -> this should give XP bonus on completing the Trial quest.

- My opinion is, that completing Veteran Arena should be one complete CP - 400k XP - this is more harder than SO - and then the same with TOP positions and bonus XP.

- Daily Pledge dungeon should give something about 150k XP and not like atm, it gives 10k from dungeon and 10k from Quest.

Imagine, that people do dailies and then maybe one Sanctum Ophidia or Veteran arena run, after what their Real Life calls them. So, 2 points/day is not that much.
To be sure, that the all the day players can not gain so so much CP, for example after a daily limit of 5 points, they will receive 50% of XP - which penalty resets at midnight.

Enlightenment should be active on account, when people are offline for 12h; then this system should give min. 2 CP from the mentioned daily 5.

These changes can offer daily max 5 CP for players - is this really so much? 3600 is the max. Daily 5x365 = approx 1600/year if people playing actively on daily base.

To avoid exploiters and hardcore grinders, lets make softcap of daily max 8 points, but as I said, after 5th point, with 50% less XP receive.

This would only be abused by farmers. They make grind groups and the Casual doesn't get in those due him being to bad / less worthy in the eyes of them.

It would not change anything, those who now farm in Cyrodil just go farm VR´s - its still a broken system, just the place is now different.

We need to get away from the idea that someone can do the same thing all day and gain an edge over those who do various things.

As others said, Achievements should grant CP´s. Its a one time opportunity for everyone and even catching a rare fish is worth as much as running a dungeon or doing a story related quest. People need to be able to gain CP´s by playing this game, not by working it.