Jimmy wrote: »

I love the new update. Things got changed.. a lot. It will require a long phase of adaptation for the gamers to find what works and what doesn't. And it will take some time to get used to it all. Our old way of doing things has changed. Adapt.

All I see is whining and crying on these forums, and it hasn't even been 2 full days yet since this patch was released. There is ALWAYS a breaking in period. A month from now, when people actually figure out how to play under the new rebalance, you'll see a lot less QQ'ing. In the mean time....Adapt!

One of the main themes of my post was precisely that I don't want to spend another month, another two, three, six months, getting good at a game I already learned to play.

Assilma wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

So everyone feels nerfed in Pvp? How does that work? How do you know you're nerfed if what you're comparing yourself to is also nerfed?

Not being sarcastic, it's a genuine question of curiosity. I'm a pve/rp/immersionist so I don't quite follow the whole statistical side of mmos.

When I say everyone feels nerfed, I am basing this on 90% of the conversations I've had with pvpers I know (easily 90%). And on the fact that you can find an overwhelming amount of posts, threads and discussion about how *stamina sorcerer* feels nerfed, *magicka nightblade* feels nerfed, *dragonknight tank* feels nerfed. Everything. And this is largely because we now have to earn champion points in order to have an equatable character to what we used to. It's hard to find someone who's favourite skill *hasn't* been totally ruined, in my experience.

That does suck that it doesn't feel as fun for many. That's not ideal at all.

Jimmy wrote: »

I love the new update. Things got changed.. a lot. It will require a long phase of adaptation for the gamers to find what works and what doesn't. And it will take some time to get used to it all. Our old way of doing things has changed. Adapt.

All I see is whining and crying on these forums, and it hasn't even been 2 full days yet since this patch was released. There is ALWAYS a breaking in period. A month from now, when people actually figure out how to play under the new rebalance, you'll see a lot less QQ'ing. In the mean time....Adapt!

Why should I adapt? There are plenty games on the market. For me it's simple- I spent almost whole year trying to get better, I felt like I achieved that, and then ,with one stroke ,ZOS put me back to square one. What is so great about this update? Crazies that running around and killing everyone on site maybe enjoying this update.

Assilma wrote: »

One of the main themes of my post was precisely that I don't want to spend another month, another two, three, six months, getting good at a game I already learned to play.

diskiukas wrote: »

Why should I adapt? There are plenty games on the market. For me it's simple- I spent almost whole year trying to get better, I felt like I achieved that, and then ,with one stroke ,ZOS put me back to square one. What is so great about this update? Crazies that running around and killing everyone on site maybe enjoying this update.

I really don't know what to tell you, man...

After doing Raid Tiers 1-10 in one game, or seasons of PvP content where the maps and layouts changed in another... Or expansion after expansion...

That is the MMORPG. Every single one.

A new struggle, a new learning experience, a new game.

Ashigaru wrote: »

The bad thing about a MMO is that it is fluid, it is always changing and thats something we as a player need to get ust to and be able to adjust to it or not play it anymore.

So many people don't realize this, or just refuse to accept it.

I have a feeling A LOT of ESO's players came from a single player background, making adjusting and adapting to a living game difficult for them.

Adapt or die!
Embrace the change! Think of it as of a breath of fresh air after you've been sitting locked in a funky dungeon for a year.
I was looking for a reason to change my character anyway, so for me, the change is welcome.
Personal opinions aside, things did go better. Class skills now have stamina morphs, how cool is that.
I agree with @lordrichter - best update since update 5. But since update 5 was best, it's the best update ever, even though I don't care at all about the justice system.

If your main complaint is based upon being afraid of change (and not actually critiquing the changes) you are wasting space on these forums. Complaining about bugs and performance is pointless because this occurs after every patch and corrected soon after. System changes is the only warranted discussion.

Through ALL the whining about magicka nerfs my NB is MORE powerful now ... considerably. I used the exact same build on my primary bar (Fire staff. Only using wall of elements currently and the now impressive standard attacks). The trick was that I had to change how I played it. I first thought it was weaker but then adjusted. The build is far more effective now.

I even had to go through remaking my toon (when PTS first went up) because of the potion and NB changes. Sorcs whine like little girls who dropped their icecream but I HAD TO REMAKE A CHARACTER!!! Entire skill choices and game play was changed for my character ... not just nerfed ... OBLITERATED! Yet I kept on playing and kept on adjusting.

Stealth openers on magicka based abilities lost their damage bonus. Imagine a stealth NB losing the ability to open with high damage out of stealth ... they would lose their minds, but nope, magicka builds had to suck it up and you barely heard anything about it over the sorc whining. Why did we lose our melee stealth openers? Because it was replaced by a stealth/cloak crit destro staff opener from range! Yes that is indeed even better for us. As a Dunmer fire/resto player now I am killing mobs with ranged stealth openers instead of melee or leap. Not the same bonus as melee once did but the auto-fire weaving after is lol damage before the enemy wakes from stun.Well they don't because they are dead.

Only minor adjustments and my character is impressively more potent . We lost an entire build option but gained the NB feel on more traditional mage setups which lacked that feel badly prior.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

I love it.

Im also a Master Alchemist and My build got crippled in 1.6 but the update is awesome as a whole

Can someone explain to me- why this change is better for the game? Why that change was needed, what was wrong with the game in the first place. There are more concerning issues- like lag in Cyro for example that they should spend more time fixing it. Adding new content also, specially in PVP. Make new classes for those who have urgency to start a new. Why this reshuffling was needed at all?

It's a major reboot of the game. If some people truly feel that 1.6 "ruins the game" because they've mastered the previous game mechanics, there's no shame in going out on top and finding a different game to play.

But if you decide the different game to play is the one we have right now, at least you start with the advantage of having existing gear and gold. You can even keep your characters. And as mentioned, pretty soon you won't even have to pay to play, so there's no harm in sticking around to see how the new game mechanics work for you after things settle down a bit.

Although I do feel some of what you’re feeling it has not broken the game for me and for now will continue to play. I had fun in PVP thornblade last night and I will be changing my build in accordance to the many changes. Some of the new skills were cool and some of the skills are buffed and some nerfed and I will adapt to the new paradigm. What will get me to move on is all the bugs that were promised to be fixed or improved and are not. Lag is far worse than ever in Thorn. Worst I have ever seen it.

That said, we all need a reality check, if every PVP'er left the game that would probably be 10% of the player base at most. We are not their core audience, we are just a vocal minority. We never will be the audience to matter to any business and as we have seen the Devs do not get to make decisions about the game. Most of the movies that win academy awards are movies no one ever watches. Most of them are movie that are barely watchable to me and yet critics rave about them. People in general flock to buzz and hype and then they are gone to the next game as some of you will be doing. We have to take some responsibility for this situation and this patch. Many of you complained about the veteran ranks when there was nothing wrong with them. Now we have the veteran rank replacement I call it VR light. Many of you complained there was "nothing to do and yet some of you have never done a trial, or killed Molag Bal, or done Caldwell Silver or Gold. Last night someone said, "what’s Caldwell silver". Many of you grinded to VR 14 and then complained you had to grind and now you will grind CP but grind you will as I have never heard of an MMO where you did not have to grind.

What I want is bugs to be fixed before we get new content. Quit asking for Dark brotherhood or thieves guild quest lines and let’s get the game we actually can use reliably first. We need to insist this is done. Purge and wall of elements were broken for months but it was not fixed as they said it would be fixed in update 1.6. Now, I don’t care whether it was fixed or not fixed and now I have a dozen other things that need to be fixed. We need to quit asking for things to get nerfed everyone should be able to build up to the meta DK, Vamp, Emperor but the truth is most of us will not play good enough to really matter.

Lastly, I am really tired about ppl raging about the classes (play a Templar btw) especially Sorcs. You got a nerf where... how? Maybe in your theory crafting! I got creamed last night by Sorc after Sorc. No not by pets now crystal frags does 6-8k damage, deadric curse hits for 12k damage. Now the stam sorc can crystal frag to the ground, crit charge in when you break free with a two hander and give you a wrecking blow or upper cut and it is back to the wayshrine for you as I was out of my 24 k in health in about 3 seconds. I will certainly be leveling my Sorc and I am sure Grand Overlord Crystalized is crying in his swimming pool sized AP bathtub about his under powered Sorc and as he and his girlfriends continue to steam role over the AD (and DC) who still try to solo the zerg every night before the patch, after the patch and then I can watch the rage in the chat stream as we fight with each other more than we fight EP. If we put half as much effort into actually fighting red as much we fight each other we would be logging off with a yellow map every night while the seemingly unemployed back capped before morning but that is a different rant for a different day.

AD Templar VR14 with 70 champion points, weee

There is now a HUGE gap between sustain and high DPS builds. In 1.5, you could have really high sustain while also putting out somewhat high DPS. However, in 1.6, you either have to stack regen or you stack mag/stam. If you stack regen, you will have sustain equal to 1.5, but your DPS will be extremely low. If you stack mag/stam, your DPS will be very high, but you will have no sustain at all. It's going to take a while before players figure out what to do.

Fortunately, I've been playing a nuke PVPer for the last few months, and now I can rip through people even quicker

I feel quite the opposite from the OP, I love every chance I get to theorycraft and try out new stuff. That's one of the main reasons I play this game (and most RPG/MMO-games really).

Did you enjoy the journey towards 1.5? Was it fun to gradually improve your skills and understanding of the game - experimenting with builds etc? Will it be fun to have more stuff to figure out in the future?

If your answer is NO to any of these questions then I get why you are upset. But then I'm not sure I understand why you kept on playing in the first place. Maybe we play in different ways and with different goals, dunno.

EDIT: Alot of the changes where needed imo, the current system was messy
- It didn't work well for adding more skills in the future as most buffs could stack, hard to balance
- Softcaps tried to fix that, resulting in everyone being softcapped in everything at vr14... no real diversity
- Softcaps again made it too easy to create one build to rule them all (LA/Staff)
- What skill that scaled of what was not coherent at all, really confusing

Now your choices in attributes and armor actually matters and you have to make choices. And everyone is not nerfed, certain builds are, especially the FOTM spam one skill type of builds...

When people start to have a lot of CP other balance issues will certainly come around, heck hthey are here allready, but they are much more interesting. I'd rather have a few OP tank or dmg builds around, then a system that don't really give you meaningful choices. Being good at everything is boring.

I had to buy entirely new sets, rethink a brand new build, and need to adjust from heavy to light armor and dealing with the fact that soloing is much harder now for me...

And yet I don't feel like the game is "ruined" for me. You just need to sit back and think about how to adjust overall.

Assilma wrote: »

I'm not sure who will be reading this; maybe nobody, maybe just some random people on forums, but I hope some of my friends see this, because I'm really unlikely to continue playing much anymore since this update. I hardly know where to start to explain, but I suppose the main thing is that....

I (and many others) spent a lot of time trying to get good at this game (PVP in particular), trying to discover the most effective builds and skills and to learn how to react to everything we came across. But I feel as though the year's worth of experience I've had in this game has been for absolutely nothing, as the entire mechanics are totally different, and overnight my character feels as though it has become completely, totally useless. I don't even want to get into what build I use, because virtually everyone I know feels completely nerfed, regardless of build. It's like I've learned to play a sport, or a musical instrument really really well, and then someone has come along and totally redesigned it, and now I know how to do *nothing*. And sorry, but I'm highly reluctant to continue paying to learn a second musical instrument.

Furthermore I completely agree with those who say that the champion system, 1. is just to make you as good as you were *before 1.6*, and 2. will reward grinding, and punish regular play.

Sorry ZOS, but I really don't care about your justice system, or the provisioning. I'm a PvPer, and the whole thing is completely unbearable, unplayable and awful now. I really hope that things get better enough for me to put time back into this game again, but as it stands, it's a chore to play.

With all the changes that were coming with 1.6 I was afraid the game was going to take a downward spiral. That being said, I actually like the changes. Sure, I had to re-allocate my attributes, skills and put in champion points but after I did, I didn't really see that big of a difference. Now my main is a V14 Templar and you didn't indicate what class you were. I do know this, I ran with a group of 2 Sorcerer's and a DPS Dragon night and we were wrecking things. We tore through the normal pledge(didn't try the vet since we didn't have a tank). Went through some Craglorn quests and delves with ease. We weren't worrying about getting this or that much XP, just having fun doing things.

My advice is, do just that. Enjoy the game. Try not to dwell on the things that were changed or lost. To get the most from your champion points only put 1 point into most to get the full 1% boost. If your LA wearer up that to 5% to help off set the LA changes being more squishy. If your running low on magicka regen, put more points into that.

They game can be just as fun as it originally was for you but only if you move on and don't dwell on the past. What's done is done. Put your points in and go destroy things!