Anyone else feel that 1.6 has completely ruined the game for them....?

amasuriel

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The roles have been tightened up, thats for sure. It feels more like the holy trinity has been introduced into the game and you will have to at least now decide on a specific role you want to play instead of being able to basically do everything.

Even from a ranged or melee dps, your build will reflect this.

Tl:Dr Give 1.6 a chance. Find the role that you want to play (Ranged DPS, Melee DPS, Full Heals, Dodge Tank, Mitigation Tank, Utility DPS, Utility Heals,) and go after it.

This is part of my personal problem with Update 6. I liked that ESO was not your typical MMO. I liked that switching out some gear and skills could make you viable in another role. I liked that I had one character who could do a bit of everything and not be pigeonholed into one role. I liked that I did not need alts. It all seemed very Elder Scrolls-ish. But Update 6 feels like group play has taken a huge turn toward the traditional MMO playstyle that I don't really care for.

I totally agree with this. I like the IDEA of the CS, but in practice the changes seem to mean the death of variety. You pick one thing and crank it as hard as you can. Anything else is sub par. Which means where before I could switch from tank to DPS by switching our gear and skills, now I have to respec CS and probably attributes as well.

I wish the changes had not come with what amounts to very strict role enforcement.

ashlee17

The game for me was getting boring before 1.6.

My characters suck right now, but give me a month or two and that will change

And now my alts share the progress of my main through the champion system im one happy camper!

Just think, now you can give a few more classes a try without losing out on your nightblades progress

It may take a while to relearn the game and it's not ideal, but overall wouldn't you agree that we have been given far more than we have lost?

My Argonians(2), nightblades (2) and max alchemists (8) will miss their passives, but now we have a bunch of new ones to strive for!

The future has far more possibilities now.

nimander99

Everyone's experience is going to be different, and it's too bad the OP feels the way he/she does, that being said...

I couldn't disagree more, my char off the bat is already more effective, then I spent my champ points.
An Elder Scrolls mmo w/o Justice is just another random mmo, period.
Champion System with camera adjustments make it 'feel' like I'm playing Morrowing, Skyrim, Oblivion Online.

This is by far the most positive improvement made to the game IMHO, and the horizontal progress of the Champ system is breathtaking, to me (and I've always enjoyed grinding) its like 3600 level to earn, I couldn't be happier!

Waiting for Imperial City, Spell Crafting, Thieve's Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Orsinium, Clockwork City...

Vizier

Shrug. Combat and especially PvP was going the wrong direction. It needed to change and 1.6 is a huge step in the right direction. Sorry you feel like you wasted your time. I don't feel that way at all. The transition from the old system to the new is seeming pretty painless for me at the moment. I like it. (and no I'm not playing a Templar.)

Aletheion

Dazin93 wrote: »

I have been playing MMO's since 1999 and have never experienced a singular change that rendered my character useless in one fell swoop.

Have you not played any Blizzard games? Practically every major patch requires farming all new gear, removing nerfed skills from the build and learning how to incorporate the buffed skills into the play style. I've been doing this for years with Blizzy and I'm not surprised we have to do it with Zeni.

I admit it can be a major turn off because of the level of commitment to re-learn everything, but Blizzard over and over wrecks entire builds, hundreds of hours (or more) of farming, and gameplay styles, in one fell swoop. I cant speak for other game developers, but I'm sure this isn't unique to Blizzard and Zenimax.

I'm navigating my way through the 1.6 changes and after a few days now I'm starting to get used to my new build - which incidentally in many ways is superior to my old build.

-Aletheion

DHale

radiostar wrote: »

I played my Templar healer last night doing some group dungeons. My char is pretty much the pits now, lol. I will be retiring her for a while and go back over to my DK. They threw everything up to the Star Chart and it will take some time to get it back, and the heals are just kinda sucky atm.

But like someone wrote earlier, good part is it's free later this month!

Yes, I will not be healing anymore. Heal yourself, bring your green dragon blood (BYOGD) Bring your own Breath of Life. I will keep myself alive and you keep yourself alive I cannot heal myself with LA and the group too. I will wear heavy or medium armor and look out for me. Healing is useless as we are so squishy and healers draw aggro like nobody's business. Healing seems very nerfed to me and it was hard before and now seems improssible if you want to do what you did before. I spent my 70 points in what I thought would help with healing and resource management and damge mitigation. Even tried armor glyph, spell resist glyph, and fire resist glyph then run out of magicka quickly as no reduction or regeneration. Maybe with another 70 cp I can get some things to be vialbe but its too much to get hit for 15k and heal for 5-7k when you start with 21 k health and 24 k in Magicka. You can get carried through if you have a great tank and DPS's but the healer carrying th group is so... 1.5.

timidobserver

It pumped life into the game for me. There is actually a reason to keep doing stuff now. If they had the sources to include a little bit of content along with this update I would be completely satisfied.

Knight150

Dazin93 wrote: »

There are quite a few people in this thread stating that change is the nature of MMO's and trying to marginalize what has taken place. I have been playing MMO's since 1999 and have never experienced a singular change that rendered my character useless in one fell swoop. In that time I have played probably 14 MMO's so I am curious exactly what games your are comparing to.

Not being rude but you haven't played many MMO's over the long term if you have never experienced that amount of change before, most MMO's I have played get updated so much that the game your playing now differs massively from what you started with, sometimes it's a gradual change sometimes it's quick, just the way it is ...

Dazin93

Aletheion wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

I have been playing MMO's since 1999 and have never experienced a singular change that rendered my character useless in one fell swoop.

Have you not played any Blizzard games? Practically every major patch requires farming all new gear, removing nerfed skills from the build and learning how to incorporate the buffed skills into the play style. I've been doing this for years with Blizzy and I'm not surprised we have to do it with Zeni.

I admit it can be a major turn off because of the level of commitment to re-learn everything, but Blizzard over and over wrecks entire builds, hundreds of hours (or more) of farming, and gameplay styles, in one fell swoop. I cant speak for other game developers, but I'm sure this isn't unique to Blizzard and Zenimax.

I'm navigating my way through the 1.6 changes and after a few days now I'm starting to get used to my new build - which incidentally in many ways is superior to my old build.

-Aletheion

No I never played a blizzard game extensively as I have been a pure PvP player for quite some time and WoW never appealed to me. I used to be a hardcore player and I have played a good number of MMO's for significant periods of time.

Apparently some people have had their characters practically wiped after a almost a year, but that has never been my experience and I am glad that has been the case up to now. The logic however escapes me. I can state home robberies happen all the time ( which is a real fact) but you would never tell somebody who has been robbed that "it's just the way it is."

You might disagree and not feel robbed yourself and that's fine, but I do feel my time (my house) has been robbed as I have nothing of value after almost a year of playing. Again, nothing is wrong with stating your opinion but it shouldn't be based on attempts to marginalize others.

Morshire

DHale wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

I played my Templar healer last night doing some group dungeons. My char is pretty much the pits now, lol. I will be retiring her for a while and go back over to my DK. They threw everything up to the Star Chart and it will take some time to get it back, and the heals are just kinda sucky atm.

But like someone wrote earlier, good part is it's free later this month!

Yes, I will not be healing anymore. Heal yourself, bring your green dragon blood (BYOGD) Bring your own Breath of Life. I will keep myself alive and you keep yourself alive I cannot heal myself with LA and the group too. I will wear heavy or medium armor and look out for me. Healing is useless as we are so squishy and healers draw aggro like nobody's business. Healing seems very nerfed to me and it was hard before and now seems improssible if you want to do what you did before. I spent my 70 points in what I thought would help with healing and resource management and damge mitigation. Even tried armor glyph, spell resist glyph, and fire resist glyph then run out of magicka quickly as no reduction or regeneration. Maybe with another 70 cp I can get some things to be vialbe but its too much to get hit for 15k and heal for 5-7k when you start with 21 k health and 24 k in Magicka. You can get carried through if you have a great tank and DPS's but the healer carrying th group is so... 1.5.

WOW - seems drastic for heals from your point of view. I am LA healer and while I have not run a ton yet (RL and work) I have found that with the CP, and some different skills, I am more effective as a healer. My Spell Crit dropped just a touch (49.9% now when it was 52.8% pre 1.6) but not much else. My Magicka pool seems to never run low enough to force me to use heavy attacks to stock back up. I am pondering dropping Spell Symmetry even as I cannot see the need. I have not run Trials yet, so there may still be a complaint in waiting for me, but overall, the nerf sucked, but with some practice, I feel just as confident healing a group as I did before.

jelliedsoup

The game is better for me. I've always wanted to just be a dps NB stam build and now can do it. Healing DKs and Templars are still a pain but not impossible.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

completely disagree. 1.6 is better. yes you have to relearn. the overall balance was terrible before, everyone QQ about everything, now they change it and QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ. IT dosent really matter what they do many will hate anything that does not make their build the best build out there.

Im glad they rebalanced the game I think when people get over the fact its a new game and people who cant move on, there will be more variety in group composition by a long shot because there are going to be more viable competitive builds than what was possible in previous versions.

GrimMauKin

I have to say that I'm hating the changes; I have built just a single character, levelled to VR14 over about 10 months, and it's like starting an entirely new game from scratch for no particular reason except the Zenimax have again decided to ignore bug fixing for adding new content and changing the mechanics.

I've stuck with endless bugs from day one because I loved the game but those old bugs remain along with a shed load of others added along the way and now I feel like I'm back to square one and starting afresh, I'm beginning to wonder whether I should just start a completely new, and better designed/supported game.

There's a phrase, "you can't polish and turn, but you can roll it in glitter" and, to my mind, this applies perfectly to Zenimax's refusal (or inability) to fix fundamental bugs and just pile on more shiny content and mechanics changes.

RoamingRiverElk

The champion system will ruin PvP because it gives way too big an advantage to anyone who has grinded, and then it's just about the passives and not about skill.

Fenrlr

I (and many others) spent a lot of time trying to get good at this game (PVP in particular), trying to discover the most effective builds and skills and to learn how to react to everything we came across. But I feel as though the year's worth of experience I've had in this game has been for absolutely nothing, as the entire mechanics are totally different, and overnight my character feels as though it has become completely, totally useless. I don't even want to get into what build I use, because virtually everyone I know feels completely nerfed, regardless of build. It's like I've learned to play a sport, or a musical instrument really really well, and then someone has come along and totally redesigned it, and now I know how to do *nothing*. And sorry, but I'm highly reluctant to continue paying to learn a second musical instrument.

Furthermore I completely agree with those who say that the champion system, 1. is just to make you as good as you were *before 1.6*, and 2. will reward grinding, and punish regular play.



I feel the same Assilma.
Tho i do think its possible to adapt (i already spent lots of gold on new gear, remorph etc) i feel a bit down about having to do it all again after as you said we already learned that instrument.

But as some say, it is still early in the patch and i am sure that those determined will find other ways and builds that do good.
I hope you stick around and see how it goes, who knows maybe ZoS someday will learn to fix stuff insted of f**k it up faaaar beyond recognition

WhiskyBob

PVP is desolate as most of the serious pvp-ers are grinding champion points hard.

Wait a month when those farmers return and dominate PVP with 75point passives while you will be happy to get your first 30cp passive.

nerevarine1138

GrimMauKin wrote: »

I have to say that I'm hating the changes; I have built just a single character, levelled to VR14 over about 10 months, and it's like starting an entirely new game from scratch for no particular reason except the Zenimax have again decided to ignore bug fixing for adding new content and changing the mechanics.

I've stuck with endless bugs from day one because I loved the game but those old bugs remain along with a shed load of others added along the way and now I feel like I'm back to square one and starting afresh, I'm beginning to wonder whether I should just start a completely new, and better designed/supported game.

There's a phrase, "you can't polish and turn, but you can roll it in glitter" and, to my mind, this applies perfectly to Zenimax's refusal (or inability) to fix fundamental bugs and just pile on more shiny content and mechanics changes.

They changed things for "no particular reason"?

You do realize that things changed because players kept insisting that the system was broken, right? Because players wanted to see a more open form of endgame progression. Because players complained endlessly about how unbalanced the game was.

And then when they change things, what happens? Players complain that the old system was just fine.

ZRage

Basics of life, you can't please everybody.

For instance I don't like that they didn't nerf healing / sustain that certain builds / classes, like templar and DK got. I just can't stand when someone picks 10 worse choices he could in 5 last seconds yet it's all cancelled by single or 2 clicks on keyboard.

RainfeatherUK

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And then when they change things, what happens? Players complain that the old system was just fine.

Welcome to failed western civilization. Selt entitled greed, no discipline and no common sense.

One can only imagine that the wisest course in this setting would be for ZoS to ignore the majority of the community and make decisions on majority metrics/data. Oh wait

An opportunity presented itself: 'A wild PTS appeared.'

Hundreds of people on the PTS promoting the changes and complimenting ZoS and suddenly the game is ruined? Haha. Nothing like this forum for spitting out your breakfast in amusement.

kevlarto_ESO

Like all big updates in every mmo I have played since the 90's, it has some problems and I am sure ZOS will address them, just not fast enough for some folks, has not ruined anything for me, but the server performance since 1.6. is the worst I have seen since launch, but they do not do enough testing, they had one event on the pts, but never made adjustments then had another event to see how those worked, as long as ZOS does poor testing all big updates will kinda be crap until they get a few hot fixes out, but I have played mmo's for so long I am kinda used to it.

treehugger208

If you play an MMO and expect that the mechanics will always be the same, you're going to have a bad time.

Seriously, the PTS has been up for weeks. If you were so concerned about your build you could have gone there and tested everything there. We have known this was all coming for a long time. If you aren't happy because it's not what you know, it's your own fault for not educating yourself on the changes.

diwie

treehugger208 wrote: »

Seriously, the PTS has been up for weeks. If you were so concerned about your build you could have gone there and tested everything there. We have known this was all coming for a long time. If you aren't happy because it's not what you know, it's your own fault for not educating yourself on the changes.

However so it might be as worse as expected.

Kingdinguhling

diskiukas wrote: »

Can someone explain to me- why this change is better for the game? Why that change was needed, what was wrong with the game in the first place. There are more concerning issues- like lag in Cyro for example that they should spend more time fixing it. Adding new content also, specially in PVP. Make new classes for those who have urgency to start a new. Why this reshuffling was needed at all?

Honestly there was a lot wrong with the game that they fixed and if you look at this from a programmers perspective simplifying the buffs and debuffs really cleans up the game engine.

Honestly there are several bits here that people need to let go of.....

This is not a 1 time release game Skyrim or Morrowind - this is a MMORPG (there will be many huge changes and several different classes will take the lead spot and be the most powerful)

This isn't a Roleplaying Stage First -its a MMORPG First.

Yes sorc might have got the short end of the stick and it might not be very user friendly. But this is a MMORPG there are many different classes and you can reroll. I DID. Maybe Next update...

There is always gonna be Bugs its a MMORPG

if you don't like adapting then go back to Super Mario brothers. This is a MMORPG there will be huge Expansions and Updates that will break and topple classes.

If you don't like the Justice system and champion system then to bad its new Content ....after all this is a MMORPG

if you don't like anything that effects your game go play a single player game. You need to look at this from a balance perspective. Take the good with the bad because this is a MMORPG your not the only one in the game....


We all have little things that Erk us! I am a little agitated about the fact that Templar can really only do DPS with stamina and has to spent like 15k gold to swap all my Attributes, Champion points, and Morphs but you know what I like the fact that DK isn't just *** me on the battlefield anymore and that I can run Veteran Dungeons on my VR1 now.

So if it came down to going back ....NO I like the way we are going and I ask for even more changes. BIG changes please. THE BIGGER THE BETTER. KEEP EM COMIN'.

BECAUSE IT'S AN MMO!

SanTii.92

I'm sorry you are feeling that way. Personally I just love 1.6. Give it a try or move along, I don't get the point of complaining here.

Assilma

treehugger208 wrote: »

If you play an MMO and expect that the mechanics will always be the same, you're going to have a bad time.

Seriously, the PTS has been up for weeks. If you were so concerned about your build you could have gone there and tested everything there. We have known this was all coming for a long time. If you aren't happy because it's not what you know, it's your own fault for not educating yourself on the changes.

Yep I played on PTS and found it so shockingly bad I could hardly stand it. The only good thing for me about PTS was the fact that I could stop and go back to the live server, but now there's no going back ^^

But anyway, seeing as it's all my fault for not educating myself, I guess that clears everything up.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Warning: wall of text and stupid pictures incoming.

The 1.6 changes didn't completely ruin the game, it just reduced the amount of creative playstyles that are viable in endgame and really forced classes to go full magicka or full stamina - unless you are a sorc, then you MUST go full magic because your stamina toolkit is completely inadequate and broken as well as nerfed in the last patch - (expert mage passive change, and crit surge cooldown and cost).

For reference, I am talking about PvP endgame here, if you want to talk about how your heavy armor sorc is doing great in PvE on random mobs, or your necropotence shield stacking full magicka sorc feels powerful in PvP, then you are the exception not the rule.

For PvP, 1.6 STOLE about 1.5k of earned resources (15k in inflated stats) and locked them behind the champion system which you cannot PvP to get back since the XP gain rate is abysmal in PvP. Partial suggested fix for that HERE.

Let me give you an example. Here are my stats pre and post patch. Both are with purple food and similar buffs.


I was running a stamina hybrid build. 2.5K health was low for PvP but not really glass canon territory. With 2.5K health, I was able to softcap stamina and come within 400 points of softcapping magicka. I had plenty of weapon damage for 2H/Bow and enough magicka for utility spells (bolt, wards, daedric mines, etc).

In 1.6, I can barely get one stat to the 1.5 softcap equivalent while maintaining 20K health, which is considered minimum in 1.6 - anything less is glass canon territory. Also my weapon damage is 1.3rd less than what it should be.

This amounts to 1.5K (15K inflated) of earned resources stolen from my character. Yes, I know health values were nerfed and that is part of it. Also some enchants were inconsistently nerfed as well.

What is the point of removing softcaps if you can never reach them because you have 15K less resources?!?!?!!?

So how does this build feel now? Very weak, I hit for cottonballs and run out of resources very quickly. Yes, i know if I spent every precious gaming minute grinding the champion system i could get some of my sustain back but...

It just feels wrong to have what you have spent time for stolen from you so that you have to grind to get it back.

Here are the effects of the changes.

• Hybrid builds are dead. Go full stamina or full magicka or go home. You won't enough resources for both.
• Remember the Battlemage or the Spellsword from Oblivion? These guys are out of work in the Tamriel of 1.6.
• 
• With the health nerf, Time to kill has been increased in cyrodiil. This puts magicka users in a bad spot. Use heavier armors at the cost of your resources or stack shields and incur the wrath of continued PMs that you are a no good shield stacker even though you would burn to ash in 30 seconds without two or more shields. Stamina users get 3/4ths of heavy armor and DPS. Why would medium armor give more spell resist than light? It should be HA>MA>LA for physical and HA>LA>MA for spell resist.
• People saying "you will get back the way you were with the champion system" aren't telling the full story. While champion points can reduce your costs, nothing in the champion system will give you the resources you had before.
• Gear (including gear you spent hours grinding for) will continue to be much less important than champion points. Several champion passives are more powerful than the 5 trait set of any current gear. Going forward, your gear means less and less, your enchants are anemic. How is gear special when champion points give you tons and tons of 5 piece bonus worth effects. More detailed write-up on this HERE.

There are a ton of things that need to be fixed but this champion system is going to get out of control with certain min/maxed builds that heavily invest in one resource. There will still be super powerful FOTM builds, there will just be fewer effective non-FOTM alternative builds.

starkerealm

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

• People saying "you will get back the way you were with the champion system" aren't telling the full story. While champion points can reduce your costs, nothing in the champion system will give you the resources you had before.

I don't have the numbers in front of me. But, spending CP actually increases your stamina, magicka, and health by a percentage. Any spent under the Warrior will increase health, any spent under the Thief will increase Stamina, and any spent under the Mage will increase Magicka. When you compare a character with no CP spent, and one with the full 3600, there's ~20%-30% difference in their stats. Though, if you want the exact numbers, I'd need to get on PTS and derp around with the templates a bit.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

starkerealm wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

• People saying "you will get back the way you were with the champion system" aren't telling the full story. While champion points can reduce your costs, nothing in the champion system will give you the resources you had before.

I don't have the numbers in front of me. But, spending CP actually increases your stamina, magicka, and health by a percentage. Any spent under the Warrior will increase health, any spent under the Thief will increase Stamina, and any spent under the Mage will increase Magicka. When you compare a character with no CP spent, and one with the full 3600, there's ~20%-30% difference in their stats. Though, if you want the exact numbers, I'd need to get on PTS and derp around with the templates a bit.

If this is true, then High champion point characters are going to be as far above non-CP chars as level 48 vs VR10.

So ZOS told us they were getting rid of the veteran system, instead, they just just renamed it, add about 20 more levels and made grinding harder - on top of that they STOLE resources that I have to earn back by grinding.

How am I supposed to be excited about this?

Dazin93

@Yolokin_Swagonborn
Great post and many valid points. Every time I see somebody post about how great the balance is now I jut shake my head. Build variety and balance is worse, not better, after 1.6 and people are pigeonholed into a singular role as the champion points greatly impact a character's capability.

Animal_Mother

I was going to post something positive about 1.6 as I actually found a templar build that works for my playstyle and I was finally able to earn 3 CPs throughout the day and was quite proud of myself for doing so... until I read the patch notes (and related forum posts) for the hotfix applied 3/7 during the evening. ZOS made me sad. 9 more days...

Sorry Assilma. I wanted to be more positive.