Lettigall wrote: »

So basically it's take it or leave it. No middle ground, just get hell out of here if you aren't happy with changes.

After reading this post I opened subscription management for second time... I can't decide unsub now or wait and hope that something changes or there will be awesome patch notes until january 6, when I'll be billed...

And NO, you can't have my stuff!

Gina is on the community staff and really has no decision making powers in how the game is implemented or run. Kai and Gina may be able to pass along messages from the developers in notes like these, and they certainly pass information from us to the developers, but the only hammer they wield is used to moderate the people who aim to misbehave in the forum.

So, when you say that this is take it or leave it and that there is no middle ground, you have to understand all of that. The statements from Gina sound absolute because that is what she can pass along.

Now, I am wrong about what ZOS is going to do more often than I can count, but the one thing that I am absolutely right about is that they do actually pass what is said in here up the line and sometimes that makes a difference in how things get done.

Beyond any shadow of a doubt, Jessica or Gina, or one of their minions , has collected statements, opinions, suggestions, criticisms, and complaints about this from the forum and forwarded it on to developers in the "reports" that they frequently do.

Whether it makes any difference is beyond speculation. I am holding out on one of two things. The feedback will cause them to change their mind, in one form or another. The feedback is irrelevant because there is more going on here than initial Champion Points and we just can't see it.

@Lettigall, I wish you luck. January 6 is tight for a company like Zenimax. I would be surprised of they put Update 6 on PTS before the week of the 12th. Naturally, we will not get patch notes to preview before it is put on PTS.

I honestly think that it is too soon to know what they are going to do You can unsub and let your time run out, but I would definitely keep an eye on Update 6 and Update 7 before you uninstall the game.

My gut instinct ("I am wrong about what ZOS is going to do more often than I can count") is that while not everyone will be thrilled, it is not exactly going to go down like people claim it will.

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how this rolls out. It will either turn into a non-event, we simply don't have the big picture, or it will be heralded for years to come as a blunder to avoid by MMOs in the future.

Sindala wrote: »

Wow...have you not read any of the other 5000 posts on this issue in the last 10 days?? They said they are STILL tracking XP upto VR14 but you wont get those converted XP to CP points until they remove the VR system.....which will happen after 1.6 thus they are giving everyone at VR1 and above 30 CP points to 'have a play around' with the system and make sure it works before they go ahead and make everything unbalanced again.

Sometimes I feel like a stuck record.....lol

Can we stop now with the posts making false assumptions that vet players will somehow be compensated after 1.6? It's obvious that ZOS doesn't value (in the slightest) the players who have sunk the most time into their game and would so readily wipe out their progress for no apparent reason.

Now that we have additional clarity on this matter I would love to hear what ZOS expects vet level players to do for the next month in their game? If you are playing your vet character right now you are just wasting your time and XP because all your progress is being wiped out. Guess it's time to try out Marvel Heroes or something as this game is literally a waste of time.

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

So, as someone not following all the ESO Live content and Q&A sessions, I'm a little confused. Anyone who is at least VR 1 gets 30 CPs. Are characters still going to be veteran rank, or will the level cap be increased from 50? Am I shooting myself in the foot trying to push through the VR content? I'm nearly to Cadwell's Gold. What will a character gain in CP if they aren't a VR yet, 1 CP at a time?

[snip]

Well, no. I don't think of it that way. But my questions are serious ones. If I'm wasting my time in VR zones, I'd rather play when this is all sorted out. I'm just a casual player, I do maybe 3 to 5 hours a week.

Basically yeah, if your playing into your VR levels now then you are taking away a good source of earning CP's later. Once you've done Cadwells silver and gold then the only ways (so far) to get XP are things like delves/PVP/dungeons ect.
ie, the harder ways that require grouping up.
Time to do like most others already have and dust ball the VR chars for a few months.
[edited to remove quote]

Guppet wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how this rolls out. It will either turn into a non-event, we simply don't have the big picture, or it will be heralded for years to come as a blunder to avoid by MMOs in the future.

It could also be heralded as the patch that got rid of all the elitist self important players, thereby vastly improving the community and saving the game.

Yeah, I'm really "elitist". I have all self-crafted gear. I have never done DSA and done 12 man trials once (couldn't even kill the last boss - so elite!). I have an AP rank of like 5 (look out for me! I'm elite!).

Quit generalizing about other players. Every play style that is not exploiting is a VALID gameplay style so enough with the belittling comments that imply people who consumed the content of the game are somehow invalid and not entitled to the reward they get from it LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. If you do the content later and get rewarded for it [snip] shouldn't I get the same reward if I completed it before you and I can't complete it again?
[edited for profanity bypass]

@lordrichter

I know that community managers aren't responsible for changes in game, they are a "bridge" between players and developers. I simply commented on statement from ZOS, which was posted by Gina!

I'm 1 char guy(tried to level alts but it's not for me), I leveled through questing, I have almost all quests except Craglorn, every dungeon, dolmen, world boss killed and all for nothing...

I simply don't have motivation to invest time in my char and I'm not in the mood make alts to be competitive...

EQBallzz wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how this rolls out. It will either turn into a non-event, we simply don't have the big picture, or it will be heralded for years to come as a blunder to avoid by MMOs in the future.

It could also be heralded as the patch that got rid of all the elitist self important players, thereby vastly improving the community and saving the game.

Yeah, I'm really "elitist". I have all self-crafted gear. I have never done DSA and done 12 man trials once (couldn't even kill the last boss - so elite!). I have an AP rank of like 5 (look out for me! I'm elite!).

Quit generalizing about other players. Every play style that is not exploiting is a VALID gameplay style so enough with the belittling comments that imply people who consumed the content of the game are somehow invalid and not entitled to the reward they get from it LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. If you do the content later and get rewarded for it [snip] shouldn't I get the same reward if I completed it before you and I can't complete it again?

Firstly I did not in anyway say who was elitist, no idea why you assumed I meant you.

Also anyone who quits over this puts their own personal progress before the future health of the game, so they are very much self important people.
[edited to remove quote]

VR14 people will still have whatever gear they have now. So they will be more powerful than a new VR1. Also, aren't these new points (by the way, we don't really know what these points do yet, do we?) account wide? So if you roll an alt, your max-level character will still get them.

EQBallzz wrote: »

If you do the content later and get rewarded for it [snip] shouldn't I get the same reward if I completed it before you and I can't complete it again?

You could look at it another way. You got to experience rewards that no one will get to experience after VR is removed. For many of us, there is no way we will have a VR14 by the time the changes are complete.

In other words, be grateful for what you have gotten up til now, rather than bitter over what you *might* not get tomorrow.
[edited to remove quote]

EQBallzz wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how this rolls out. It will either turn into a non-event, we simply don't have the big picture, or it will be heralded for years to come as a blunder to avoid by MMOs in the future.

It could also be heralded as the patch that got rid of all the elitist self important players, thereby vastly improving the community and saving the game.

Yeah, I'm really "elitist". I have all self-crafted gear. I have never done DSA and done 12 man trials once (couldn't even kill the last boss - so elite!). I have an AP rank of like 5 (look out for me! I'm elite!).

Quit generalizing about other players. Every play style that is not exploiting is a VALID gameplay style so enough with the belittling comments that imply people who consumed the content of the game are somehow invalid and not entitled to the reward they get from it LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. If you do the content later and get rewarded for it [snip] shouldn't I get the same reward if I completed it before you and I can't complete it again?

Firstly I did not in anyway say who was elitist, no idea why you assumed I meant you.

Also anyone who quits over this puts their own personal progress before the future health of the game, so they are very much self important people.

You did mean me because you generalize that anyone who isn't in favor of ZOS is somehow an "elitist". Again, you generalize that "anyone" who quits over this puts their own personal progress before the health of the game. That is utter BS. This is about fairness. I have 2 V14 characters. I'm against this change even though there are plenty of people with more veteran characters than me so that will put me at a disadvantage personally but I don't care because they earned those levels and deserve some compensation.

There is nothing they have stated that explains the need to flatten vet levels with no compensation. NOTHING. It doesn't make the system more fair. There will still be 40-something characters that get no points and V1 characters that get 30 while 4 V14 characters get the same 30 CP. That isn't proportional or fair. How is it unfair to apply the initial CP on a slightly larger range up to 100 CP or something based on the EXISTING progression system? People will still grind or figure out ways to earn CP fast and slow players will still earn CP slowly so the player gap will remain. The only thing this does is punish players who consumed more content.

I loose out on this massivly, I have 3 VR characters, I have done Cadwells gold twice. I think it is unfair, but and here's the thing, I can accept it if ZOS sees it as for the future health of the game. For anyone that quits due to it, they do see thier own progress as more important than the health of the game. Those people are self important, no two ways about it.
[edited to remove quote]

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

all the quests i completed cannot be repeated. therefore i cannot gain any new champion points on my v14 character. because i completed ALL of the silver and gold quests in all 3 alliances.

Points are account wide. Doing them on an alt gives you points on your main. Rinse and repeat.

Guppet wrote: »

I loose out on this massivly, I have 3 VR characters, I have done Cadwells gold twice. I think it is unfair, but and here's the thing, I can accept it if ZOS sees it as for the future health of the game. For anyone that quits due to it, they do see thier own progress as more important than the health of the game. Those people are self important, no two ways about it.

If having too many CP compared to other players is unhealthy to the game, then they are going about it the wrong way.

Some people who play all day every day will find a way to grind CP quickly and get ahead of everyone else.

I haven't heard a valid reason so far why it would be unhealthy for the game if I got CP according to the time and effort I put into the game.

As it stands, the champion system is a reset back to lvl 50, making every bit of XP earned afterwards useless or even a disadvantage.

Dominoid wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

all the quests i completed cannot be repeated. therefore i cannot gain any new champion points on my v14 character. because i completed ALL of the silver and gold quests in all 3 alliances.

Points are account wide. Doing them on an alt gives you points on your main. Rinse and repeat.

\

allow me to explain it for you a bit more clearly.

the matterial i have left to accomplish is "zero" unless ofcourse i want to endlessly spend hours upon hours upon hours trying to keep up with every one else by going to craiglorn on a constant basis then i will NOT be able to keep up with the rest of the entire community because i "allready completed all the quests"

and to put it into even more laymen of terms -

"i have nothing available left to do in the game to earn champion points like others who are at v1 have"

Why is everyone assuming that VR14s who've done Cadwell's Gold will have nothing to gain EXP from? ZoS even stated that they envision everyone regardless of level to gain EXP/CP at about the same rate. Remember there's a lot being changed here, including EXP rewards...

Samadhi wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

here is the question that was asked by us

"Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes?"

here is the answer we were given by zenimax employee,

"Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap."

"...up to a cap."
The cap was decided as 30 points.
Nowhere in that quote do they state that VR14 characters will receive anything more than other VR characters.

Realistically figure this was just a placeholder reply they gave though.

Could you imagine if they had posted "there's no point continuing to play, pick your sub up again in a few months after the system is implemented. Don't bother playing until then."

The cap was not decided as 30 points. The 30 points was an afterthought and damage control. When they figured out their original plan would cause more problems than it would fix.

The 30 points was never intended from the beginning, they purposefully left their wording as VAGUE as humanly possible in order to provide enough "cover our asses" room when something like this inevitably happened.

Stop acting like this was intended from the beginning, it's a stopgap measure.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Why is everyone assuming that VR14s who've done Cadwell's Gold will have nothing to gain EXP from? ZoS even stated that they envision everyone regardless of level to gain EXP/CP at about the same rate. Remember there's a lot being changed here, including EXP rewards...

because, and please listen closely --

"THERE ARE NO MORE QUESTS LEFT FOR MY CHARACTER!"

I completed all the quests in all 3 alliances, i completed pretty much EVERYTHING IN THE GAME!!!!

Then what are you doing with your current in game time? If you have absolutely nothing to do, then you must be about to quit anyway.