Sneak Attack Damage nerfed on PTS today

Poxheart · October 2014

Hey Xsorus do you have a NB on the PTS? If so, there's a magicka build I'd like you to test for me to see what the damage will be.

Kevinmon · October 2014

Why the *** is Zos nerfing Nightblades the most uunderpoewred class? WHAT THE ***???

Decimus · October 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tested on PTS

1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow

PTS 1100 Damage

Also found some useful information out..

Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form

Right, so it has become crystal shards.

I dont even have comments for that...

Komma · October 2014

So they buff bows. Bows too powerful so they nerf assassin NB's. Time to dust off the DK...

Domander · October 2014

Kevinmon wrote: »

Why the *** is Zos nerfing Nightblades the most uunderpoewred class? WHAT THE ***???

Why do people treat this as nightblade specific? I use sneak attacks with all classes, when available.

Rylana · October 2014

This will only affect the people that already try to stack crit only. Those that stack weapon damage will still see significant large hits and crits, and potential one-two shots on even high health targets.

I dont see this as a huge nerf, at the end of the day a 2.4k crit will likely just become a 2.1k crit. Big deal.

Yusuf · October 2014

Kevinmon wrote: »

Why the *** is Zos nerfing Nightblades the most uunderpoewred class? WHAT THE ***???

Because your nightblade was never the class with the highest possible (or efficient) weapondamage to begin with. NightBLADE not NightBOW.

Also please don't treat this as a Nightblade-Nerf, the bow is a weapon anybody can use.

Cody · October 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Radiant Mage Light should of been fixed, not a general nerf

agreed.

no matter what you do ZOS, you will NEVER break my will!!! I will NEVER give up my stealth build!!! you may take my stealth, but you will never take....... MY FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/end of epic awesome rant

Cody · October 2014

Kevinmon wrote: »

Why the *** is Zos nerfing Nightblades the most uunderpoewred class? WHAT THE ***???

its not a nerf to the glorious and clearly superior NB class, its a general stealth nerf.

honestly, this wont be much of a problem if you get a giant 2H weapon and just impale that flame whip spamming DK with it(provided their wooden staff does not block you:D)

kijima · October 2014

meh...

I'll still be one with bow.

Luvsfuzzybunnies · October 2014

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nah, I haven't been subscribed for almost two weeks now. Beats me

You probably have game-time remaining. I bought the recurring one-month last week, waited for game time to be added, then cancelled my sub. (I only want to play until November when Dragon Age 3 comes out and hate ZOS doesn't have non-recurring one-month subs)

http://imgur.com/6qXJvua

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Nope... those special occasions give you 100% crit. Impenetrable 7/7 reduces it by 70%, leaving you with +30% crit for that attack. Which means that the crit isn't quaranteed, unless you have 70% crit chance..

You are confusing a guaranteed crit with an ability that adds 100% critical chance.

Using shadowy disguise boosts you crit chance by 100%, but that 100% are then reduced by enemy impenetrable. But a sneak attack always crits regardless of impenetrable.

Nope... I tested it with sneak attack as well a month ago. Unless they fixed it (which I seriously doubt), it's still broken for people below 70% crit.

I'm not going to argue with you back and forth. Needless to say, my character with 80% crit reduction from impenetrable gets crit by stealth attacks all the time.

Well your personal experience is worth more than the thousands of snipes others nightblades have loosed to disprove what you think happens. DDuke is correct and it's unfortunate since it's supposed to work as you, sharee, have stated but does not.

AbraXuSeXile · October 2014

You may not be able to one shot scrubs anymore.

The sky is falling.

GreyPilgrim · October 2014

sigh...

so am I really gonna have to get on the dang PTS and examine how this actually effects the damage I deal?

seriously, I have never one hit a vet level player as a Nightblade, and that's with my spell damage over the softcap and using Stygian set. Since I'm only Rank 7, I won't say it's impossible, but it's extraordinarily unlikely unless an opponent is already weakened by some debuff.

This is so far from being a real balance issue in this game that it's actually funny. Seriously, after months of saying NB's are underpowered, a handful of us finally get practiced enough at working the battlefield to have an impact and then people start complaining and they nerf us.

I'm not gonna say this is a deal closer till it actually implements, and I see how it affects my performance. But if this affects me the way I expect it will, well, I'm just going to find it much harder to justify throwing money at the ClusterF that PVP in this game has become.

Durham · October 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JoBurba‌

Is this really the best choice for a game that is bleeding players?

Instead of nerfing Full Plate wearing guys with 8 foot greatswords who hide as well as my NB, you nerf NB bonus damage, which is something literally 0 players were really complaining about?

If you want the last few of us still playing, to go play your competitors, please just say so.

This is damn near the final straw.

The class is f'ing broke and rather than fix all the damned bugs you nerf something no players were complaining about, at a time you refuse to even fix *** half the damned playerbase is complaining about.

Get your priorities straight for the love of god.

None of you know how much the nerf is... from what i have seen on the test is its a wash your numbers are going to increase across the board .. they did not want people doing insane high opener crits..i see about the same damage that is on the live servers..... some of you will be running 130+ on all of your stats ....

GreyPilgrim · October 2014

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Nope... those special occasions give you 100% crit. Impenetrable 7/7 reduces it by 70%, leaving you with +30% crit for that attack. Which means that the crit isn't quaranteed, unless you have 70% crit chance..

You are confusing a guaranteed crit with an ability that adds 100% critical chance.

Using shadowy disguise boosts you crit chance by 100%, but that 100% are then reduced by enemy impenetrable. But a sneak attack always crits regardless of impenetrable.

But since attacking from Shadowy Disguise is an attack from stealth, what good is adding a %100 critical rating to an attack that already automatically crits?

So either the cloak ability actually doesn't provide sneak status, or the crit boost is redundant, or perhaps when they say 'automatically crits' they really don't mean automatically?

overall confused by this...

Tintinabula · October 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tested on PTS

1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow

PTS 1100 Damage

Also found some useful information out..

Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form

which is total BS. Lets make it so vamps can only be hit with camo when we are feeding..yea..cause we aren't really vamps until we are actually sucking da blood yea?

Rylana · October 2014

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Nope... those special occasions give you 100% crit. Impenetrable 7/7 reduces it by 70%, leaving you with +30% crit for that attack. Which means that the crit isn't quaranteed, unless you have 70% crit chance..

You are confusing a guaranteed crit with an ability that adds 100% critical chance.

Using shadowy disguise boosts you crit chance by 100%, but that 100% are then reduced by enemy impenetrable. But a sneak attack always crits regardless of impenetrable.

But since attacking from Shadowy Disguise is an attack from stealth, what good is adding a %100 critical rating to an attack that already automatically crits?

So either the cloak ability actually doesn't provide sneak status, or the crit boost is redundant, or perhaps when they say 'automatically crits' they really don't mean automatically?

overall confused by this...

Using shadowy disguise as an offensive buff and not as an escape mechanic is one of the secrets behind why i tend to get my kill while other nb's around sort of plink plink at a dk and never hit higher than 200-300 damage.

The first hit will crit, yep, but then your next attacks suffer due to impen, to counter this i pop shadowy before every "big" attack once ive opened. It doesnt guarantee the crit, but with about 50% crit natively already, it pretty much ensures that that impen stacker isnt "safe" from me.

GreyPilgrim · October 2014

Rylana wrote: »

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Nope... those special occasions give you 100% crit. Impenetrable 7/7 reduces it by 70%, leaving you with +30% crit for that attack. Which means that the crit isn't quaranteed, unless you have 70% crit chance..

You are confusing a guaranteed crit with an ability that adds 100% critical chance.

Using shadowy disguise boosts you crit chance by 100%, but that 100% are then reduced by enemy impenetrable. But a sneak attack always crits regardless of impenetrable.

But since attacking from Shadowy Disguise is an attack from stealth, what good is adding a %100 critical rating to an attack that already automatically crits?

So either the cloak ability actually doesn't provide sneak status, or the crit boost is redundant, or perhaps when they say 'automatically crits' they really don't mean automatically?

overall confused by this...

Using shadowy disguise as an offensive buff and not as an escape mechanic is one of the secrets behind why i tend to get my kill while other nb's around sort of plink plink at a dk and never hit higher than 200-300 damage.

The first hit will crit, yep, but then your next attacks suffer due to impen, to counter this i pop shadowy before every "big" attack once ive opened. It doesnt guarantee the crit, but with about 50% crit natively already, it pretty much ensures that that impen stacker isnt "safe" from me.

Ok, I get this, but my confusion is over the statement that Zos is making that 'attacks from stealth always crit'. Is being cloaked NOT being stealthed? If its not then I think that should be stated more clearly, that the invisible state does not provide stealthed status, and therefore automatic crits.

or is it that when Zos says 'stealth attacks automatically crit', what they really mean is 'stealth attacks have a %100 chance of critting, which can be mitigated to a lower chance'?

Honfold · October 2014

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Nope... those special occasions give you 100% crit. Impenetrable 7/7 reduces it by 70%, leaving you with +30% crit for that attack. Which means that the crit isn't quaranteed, unless you have 70% crit chance..

You are confusing a guaranteed crit with an ability that adds 100% critical chance.

Using shadowy disguise boosts you crit chance by 100%, but that 100% are then reduced by enemy impenetrable. But a sneak attack always crits regardless of impenetrable.

But since attacking from Shadowy Disguise is an attack from stealth, what good is adding a %100 critical rating to an attack that already automatically crits?

So either the cloak ability actually doesn't provide sneak status, or the crit boost is redundant, or perhaps when they say 'automatically crits' they really don't mean automatically?

overall confused by this...

Using shadowy disguise as an offensive buff and not as an escape mechanic is one of the secrets behind why i tend to get my kill while other nb's around sort of plink plink at a dk and never hit higher than 200-300 damage.

The first hit will crit, yep, but then your next attacks suffer due to impen, to counter this i pop shadowy before every "big" attack once ive opened. It doesnt guarantee the crit, but with about 50% crit natively already, it pretty much ensures that that impen stacker isnt "safe" from me.

Ok, I get this, but my confusion is over the statement that Zos is making that 'attacks from stealth always crit'. Is being cloaked NOT being stealthed? If its not then I think that should be stated more clearly, that the invisible state does not provide stealthed status, and therefore automatic crits.

or is it that when Zos says 'stealth attacks automatically crit', what they really mean is 'stealth attacks have a %100 chance of critting, which can be mitigated to a lower chance'?

I think that it is more like a guaranteed crit when out of combat and in stealth. When you are cloaking you are still in combat.

TagaParti · October 2014

good work zenimax.. dont worry about those people threatening to unsub, they are just nightblades.. rather than letting NB 1-hit kill players, DK Templar or Sorc may unsub.. Keep on nerfing NB damage, its not fun for majority of players. If they unsub, i will make an NB just to replace them but my DK will still be my main.. lol
NB heres for u

apostate9 · October 2014

Palidon wrote: »

Well this is the last and final straw for me. I am sick and tired of ZOS nerf-ing the Nightblade Class. Enough is enough. If they want to Nerf something Nerf the DK in PvP. They have finally lost my subscription as I join countless others who are completely fed up with this game. Its time to move on to something else.

Can I have your stuff?

Tintinabula · October 2014

Ive had my fair share of crit ganks from NBs. I don't have an NB. My BF is an NB and I don't know if this is really called for.

kijima · October 2014

This effects more than just NB's though, it's sneak attacks not an NB skill line.

Tintinabula · October 2014

There's an NB Passive that gives increased damage yea?...and there's a mundus stone that gives 5% weapon crit...both from hide yea? What other sneak attacks are affected by this?

Sharee · October 2014

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Nope... those special occasions give you 100% crit. Impenetrable 7/7 reduces it by 70%, leaving you with +30% crit for that attack. Which means that the crit isn't quaranteed, unless you have 70% crit chance..

You are confusing a guaranteed crit with an ability that adds 100% critical chance.

Using shadowy disguise boosts you crit chance by 100%, but that 100% are then reduced by enemy impenetrable. But a sneak attack always crits regardless of impenetrable.

But since attacking from Shadowy Disguise is an attack from stealth, what good is adding a %100 critical rating to an attack that already automatically crits?

So either the cloak ability actually doesn't provide sneak status, or the crit boost is redundant, or perhaps when they say 'automatically crits' they really don't mean automatically?

overall confused by this...

Using shadowy disguise as an offensive buff and not as an escape mechanic is one of the secrets behind why i tend to get my kill while other nb's around sort of plink plink at a dk and never hit higher than 200-300 damage.

The first hit will crit, yep, but then your next attacks suffer due to impen, to counter this i pop shadowy before every "big" attack once ive opened. It doesnt guarantee the crit, but with about 50% crit natively already, it pretty much ensures that that impen stacker isnt "safe" from me.

Ok, I get this, but my confusion is over the statement that Zos is making that 'attacks from stealth always crit'. Is being cloaked NOT being stealthed? If its not then I think that should be stated more clearly, that the invisible state does not provide stealthed status, and therefore automatic crits.

or is it that when Zos says 'stealth attacks automatically crit', what they really mean is 'stealth attacks have a %100 chance of critting, which can be mitigated to a lower chance'?

Stealth and invisibility are two different things.

The former can only be achieved by crouching and having the eye close. This gives you the sneak attack bonus, autocrit and all.

The latter can be achieved either by using cloak or using an invisibility potion (and technically through clouding swarm). This however does not give you any inherent crit bonuses (unless achieved by cloaking using the shadowy disguise morph).

Columba · October 2014

I play a stealthy NB, and I am not worried about it. massive front loaded dmg is bs,.

Zubba · October 2014

Magicka based burst NB will suffer. Thats for sure. And was magicka based burst NBs burst the problem? I think not.

Decimus · October 2014

Zubba wrote: »

Magicka based burst NB will suffer. Thats for sure. And was magicka based burst NBs burst the problem? I think not.

Not really... Magicka burst based NBs never relied on stealth that much. Their damage comes from Ambush->Surprise Attack->Soul Harvest/Tether

Only ones suffering from this change are stamina builds... you will no longer be able to burst people in zergs before they get healed, so all those players who liked stealthy gameplay will be driven to the zergballs & they'll have to change their gear so they can dmg shield or heal.

Just what the PvP needed, more zergballs.

synnerman · October 2014

LOL , DKs thinking they are safe from the nerf bat. I suggest you all listen to the audio on Youtube of the guild summit and listen to Eric and his comment on Scales . Your scales may not even reflect arrows in the future or may be on cooldown. Laugh then

Domander · October 2014

synnerman wrote: »

LOL , DKs thinking they are safe from the nerf bat. I suggest you all listen to the audio on Youtube of the guild summit and listen to Eric and his comment on Scales . Your scales may not even reflect arrows in the future or may be on cooldown. Laugh then

Listening to that audio, they sound so incredibly out of touch with the game, it's disheartening.

Removing projectile (even just arrows) reflect would make a DK a free kill for anyone smart enough to exploit it. 36m range (43 with snipe) vs 22m gap closer, the only other thing a DK could do is to use a ranged weapon but at that point you're just trading damage with no ability to close the distance.

The other classes have things they can do in this situation, sorc can bolt/use ranged class abilities, nightblade can cloak/cripple/strife, templar can sun fire (which snares) to help close distance.

If they make any change I'd like them to increase the duration and limit the number of reflects. It'd make it more useful for stamina build DKs that way, but still be useful without scaling to sillyness with 30 players shooting the DK.