Sneak Attack Damage nerfed on PTS today

DDuke

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nah, I haven't been subscribed for almost two weeks now. Beats me

You probably have game-time remaining. I bought the recurring one-month last week, waited for game time to be added, then cancelled my sub. (I only want to play until November when Dragon Age 3 comes out and hate ZOS doesn't have non-recurring one-month subs)

http://imgur.com/6qXJvua

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Nope... those special occasions give you 100% crit. Impenetrable 7/7 reduces it by 70%, leaving you with +30% crit for that attack. Which means that the crit isn't quaranteed, unless you have 70% crit chance..

You are confusing a guaranteed crit with an ability that adds 100% critical chance.

Using shadowy disguise boosts you crit chance by 100%, but that 100% are then reduced by enemy impenetrable. But a sneak attack always crits regardless of impenetrable.

Nope... I tested it with sneak attack as well a month ago. Unless they fixed it (which I seriously doubt), it's still broken for people below 70% crit.

I'm not going to argue with you back and forth. Needless to say, my character with 80% crit reduction from impenetrable gets crit by stealth attacks all the time.

Of course. You have 20% chance of being critted on from stealth, assuming your opponent has 0% crit chance. Most likely around 50-60%, since most people tend to have atleast 30% crit chance. Someone with 70% crit would still (hilariously) have 10% chance of not critting.

Sharee

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nah, I haven't been subscribed for almost two weeks now. Beats me

You probably have game-time remaining. I bought the recurring one-month last week, waited for game time to be added, then cancelled my sub. (I only want to play until November when Dragon Age 3 comes out and hate ZOS doesn't have non-recurring one-month subs)

http://imgur.com/6qXJvua

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Nope... those special occasions give you 100% crit. Impenetrable 7/7 reduces it by 70%, leaving you with +30% crit for that attack. Which means that the crit isn't quaranteed, unless you have 70% crit chance..

You are confusing a guaranteed crit with an ability that adds 100% critical chance.

Using shadowy disguise boosts you crit chance by 100%, but that 100% are then reduced by enemy impenetrable. But a sneak attack always crits regardless of impenetrable.

Nope... I tested it with sneak attack as well a month ago. Unless they fixed it (which I seriously doubt), it's still broken for people below 70% crit.

I'm not going to argue with you back and forth. Needless to say, my character with 80% crit reduction from impenetrable gets crit by stealth attacks all the time.

Of course. You have 20% chance of being critted on from stealth, assuming your opponent has 0% crit chance. Most likely around 50-60%, since most people tend to have atleast 30% crit chance. Someone with 70% crit would still (hilariously) have 10% chance of not critting.

From the patch note:

Note that stealthed attacks are still always critical strikes that stun your target.

If that's not enough then i don't know what is.

Braidas

nice.

Grim13

When are the nerfs to shield stacking coming, Zeni?

How about the removal of attacking while blocking?

DDuke

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nah, I haven't been subscribed for almost two weeks now. Beats me

You probably have game-time remaining. I bought the recurring one-month last week, waited for game time to be added, then cancelled my sub. (I only want to play until November when Dragon Age 3 comes out and hate ZOS doesn't have non-recurring one-month subs)

http://imgur.com/6qXJvua

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Nope... those special occasions give you 100% crit. Impenetrable 7/7 reduces it by 70%, leaving you with +30% crit for that attack. Which means that the crit isn't quaranteed, unless you have 70% crit chance..

You are confusing a guaranteed crit with an ability that adds 100% critical chance.

Using shadowy disguise boosts you crit chance by 100%, but that 100% are then reduced by enemy impenetrable. But a sneak attack always crits regardless of impenetrable.

Nope... I tested it with sneak attack as well a month ago. Unless they fixed it (which I seriously doubt), it's still broken for people below 70% crit.

I'm not going to argue with you back and forth. Needless to say, my character with 80% crit reduction from impenetrable gets crit by stealth attacks all the time.

Of course. You have 20% chance of being critted on from stealth, assuming your opponent has 0% crit chance. Most likely around 50-60%, since most people tend to have atleast 30% crit chance. Someone with 70% crit would still (hilariously) have 10% chance of not critting.

From the patch note:

Note that stealthed attacks are still always critical strikes that stun your target.

If that's not enough then i don't know what is.

Feel free to conduct tests yourself. I already documented & posted the dmg shield test (them being uncrittable) and posted it on the Combat & Skill Lines forum a couple of months ago.
As a side note: I've also heard there is also a bug that causes you to generate no ultimate when hitting them (requires testing to confirm).
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

phreatophile

Sharee wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

Impenetrable reduces chance of regular crits, but the special cases where a crit is guaranteed are extempt from that(like critical rush from the 2h line, or a sneak attack).

Thanks, I don't spend a lot of time in Cyrodil, so I didn't know that.

phreatophile

Palidon wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

This is truly a momentous occasion.

Finally, a common sense PVP balance fix that is only for PVP.

Seriously.
Reduced by how much? And does it actually matter? Does anyone actually get critical hits anymore? I thought a few pieces of impenetrable gear negated crits.

If they want to fix a balance then nerf the DK advantage in PvP not the Nightblades. Give me a break.

Actually, I agree with you. The PVP only nature of this one shocked me. This is a cut from a broadsword when a scalpel would have been more appropriate. They could nerf bow crit damage and I'd be fine with it, melee nightblades have to get up close to characters that can kill them at will in order to do much damage. Dumb Nerf

Evergnar

Fixing radiant magelight would have been the right thing to do. Disappointed to hear.

Aoe_Barbecue

Lol @ OP melodrama.

NB's still have a very good AoE tank spec. NB's still have a very good single target melee burst spec, albeit it's magicka heavy. NB's are still good rdps as well. God forbid you learn to play your class a different way!

DDuke

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

Lol @ OP melodrama.

NB's still have a very good AoE tank spec. NB's still have a very good single target melee burst spec, albeit it's magicka heavy. NB's are still good rdps as well. God forbid you learn to play your class a different way!

God forbid someone wanting to play a rogue/assassin character and actually expecting more mechanics based on stealth, instead of having them removed.

Manoekin

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

Lol @ OP melodrama.

NB's still have a very good AoE tank spec. NB's still have a very good single target melee burst spec, albeit it's magicka heavy. NB's are still good rdps as well. God forbid you learn to play your class a different way!

This. NB is an amazing class regardless. Classes are not put into traditional roles. You can still destroy people with a bow if you want. It's not like that was the best or most viable spec for a NB in the first place, so I don't see what the difference is. All classes are not what you specifically imagine them in your head to be. Gimp yourself by thinking that way if you want though.

aco5712

I think ZOS should have nerfed snipe damage from stealth instead of all damage from stealth. Magicka based NBs who attack from stealth cant get near the same burst that bows can. They are much easier to counter.

Anyways, this is the time to seperate gankers and bursters. NBs are gonna have to get some variety on their bar now and be able to sustain while still being able to burst instead of just gank.

Erock25

DDuke wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

Lol @ OP melodrama.

NB's still have a very good AoE tank spec. NB's still have a very good single target melee burst spec, albeit it's magicka heavy. NB's are still good rdps as well. God forbid you learn to play your class a different way!

God forbid someone wanting to play a rogue/assassin character and actually expecting more mechanics based on stealth, instead of having them removed.

You are really sour about losing your one shot huh? You still have tons of mechanics based on stealth AND they didn't say they are completely removing sneak attack bonus dmg so get over it.

Koensol

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Good thing I didn't resub to this mess yet. /rant

I'm pretty sure if you can post on the forums, you're subbed. I was unsubbed until last week and was unable to post/comment, I was told "Permission denied".

Indeed. Just another example of the amount of [snip] people post on this forum. OT: This is a welcome change! Anything that increases TTK is good imo. People are often exploding right now or are dying in mere seconds.



[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

eNumbra

So sneak attack is still 180 while Block is 360 I take it?


How much of a reduction?

My stealth, burst based NB wasn't built for this games group PvE content: if, Zenimax, your unerring complacency with the other classes' gimmicks is an endorsement, why is striking from stealth the only one that's not okay?

DDuke

Koensol wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Good thing I didn't resub to this mess yet. /rant

I'm pretty sure if you can post on the forums, you're subbed. I was unsubbed until last week and was unable to post/comment, I was told "Permission denied".

Indeed. Just another example of the amount of bullsh!t people post on this forum. OT: This is a welcome change! Anything that reduces TTK is good imo.

http://imgur.com/6qXJvua

[snip] indeed

and sure, let's first remove crit chance altogether with Impenetrable and then remove burst builds also, because build diversity is baaad, right?

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Koensol

DDuke wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Good thing I didn't resub to this mess yet. /rant

I'm pretty sure if you can post on the forums, you're subbed. I was unsubbed until last week and was unable to post/comment, I was told "Permission denied".

Indeed. Just another example of the amount of bullsh!t people post on this forum. OT: This is a welcome change! Anything that reduces TTK is good imo.

http://imgur.com/6qXJvua

[snip] indeed

and sure, let's first remove crit chance altogether with Impenetrable and then remove burst builds also, because build diversity is baaad, right?

msawwan2ub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Of course. You have 20% chance of being critted on from stealth, assuming your opponent has 0% crit chance. Most likely around 50-60%, since most people tend to have atleast 30% crit chance. Someone with 70% crit would still (hilariously) have 10% chance of not critting.

every time i read the forum i get stupid(er)

I can tell.

Feel free to conduct your own tests.

Then how come me, and countless others couldn't post while we were unsubbed?

And you completely miss the point with your remark about build diversity. Burst is okay, diversity is needdd. But killing people in 2 shots is *** ridiculous. Please don't tell me you've never been hit by sneak hits that are over the top?!

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Saet

I would definitely like to see how much of a nerf this is. Some of the devs must have gotten pummeled by gankers.

Domander

Yeah.... because only nightblades use sneak attacks...

kijima

As an NB with bow that's stamina heavy and weapon damage heavy, I can see why they have changed this. I've brought down well known players in just a few shots, the from stealth opener being the big hit using snipe, and while through the air mark target, then it's cloak, heavy shot, venom and heavy. BOOM! (that's if they last that long, usually have camo hunter on too)

While that's enjoyable play style for me, it's pretty easy to do once you've built yourself for it, and really with bow your hit from stealth can be stupidly high and usually when you do hit from stealth with a bow, your target isn't reflecting, or stacking shields as they dont know your there.

Cody

Grim13 wrote: »

When are the nerfs to shield stacking coming, Zeni?

How about the removal of attacking while blocking?

NEVER

*resumes spamming whip while blocking WHILE casting an absurd amount of damage shields*

in all seriousness, ZOS has confirmed they are doing something about block-casting...... I would link the post; but it was quite some time ago, and I don't think I can find it again. but im not lying, they have confirmed they are doing something about block casting

Decimus

msawwan2ub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Of course. You have 20% chance of being critted on from stealth, assuming your opponent has 0% crit chance. Most likely around 50-60%, since most people tend to have atleast 30% crit chance. Someone with 70% crit would still (hilariously) have 10% chance of not critting.

[...]

Oh, cool. I can still post it seems

I was a bit worried there for a moment...

"Stealth is always a crit" is a false statement, go ahead and test it yourself (as I have done dozens of times).
One of us plays a stamina NB who knows what he's talking about, the other one doesn't.

Morale of the story is that some people will always cry "nerf", before thinking about their own gameplay.
There are multiple people who have never been "one shot" in PvP, despite having spent hundreds of hours in Cyrodiil (I am one of them).


Thank you, I have nothing more to add.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote and response]

Decimus

kijima wrote: »

As an NB with bow that's stamina heavy and weapon damage heavy, I can see why they have changed this. I've brought down well known players in just a few shots, the from stealth opener being the big hit using snipe, and while through the air mark target, then it's cloak, heavy shot, venom and heavy. BOOM! (that's if they last that long, usually have camo hunter on too)

While that's enjoyable play style for me, it's pretty easy to do once you've built yourself for it, and really with bow your hit from stealth can be stupidly high and usually when you do hit from stealth with a bow, your target isn't reflecting, or stacking shields as they dont know your there.

Thing is, they already nerfed bow burst damage by making the snipe->heavy attack->venom arrow impossible due to shorter Snipe animation, which is fine since we got better sustained DPS in return.
Stealth damage nerf was totally unnecessary imo, but it's only PTS so it might be changed back yet.

Satiar

Please put the nonsense argument to death. If in stealth, behind target at 180 degrees, undiscovered, all appropriate skills will auto Crit. Without fail, no regard given to how much impen the target has. The end.

Xsorus

Radiant Mage Light should of been fixed, not a general nerf

Decimus

Satiar wrote: »

Please put the nonsense argument to death. If in stealth, behind target at 180 degrees, undiscovered, all appropriate skills will auto Crit. Without fail, no regard given to how much impen the target has. The end.

I will test it again if I decide to resubscribe, and I will record it, if you can't take my word on it (assuming it hasn't been fixed while I've been away).

Tests regarding impenetrable I conducted in September, shortly after the dmg shield tests which you can find documented on the Combat & Skill Line forum.

Xsorus

Sneak Attacks are automatic crit...no matter what their crit resist is.

Against Shield stacking though you probably won't eat through most shields though.

timidobserver

Nice, I can not block for two seconds and potentially not get killed instantly now.

Tolce

Radiant magelight isn't broken technically, but there is a situation that breaks it. Spend some time like I did to figure it out, then laugh at all stealth attacks.

Xsorus

Tested on PTS

1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow

PTS 1100 Damage

Also found some useful information out..

Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form