Sneak Attack Damage nerfed on PTS today
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Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyway, to get back on topic, does anyone have numbers? They were vague with the patch note.2 -
Zubba✭✭✭Magicka based burst NB will suffer. Thats for sure. And was magicka based burst NBs burst the problem? I think not.
Not really... Magicka burst based NBs never relied on stealth that much. Their damage comes from Ambush->Surprise Attack->Soul Harvest/Tether
Only ones suffering from this change are stamina builds... you will no longer be able to burst people in zergs before they get healed, so all those players who liked stealthy gameplay will be driven to the zergballs & they'll have to change their gear so they can dmg shield or heal.
Just what the PvP needed, more zergballs.
I am all magicka build myself. I rely 100% on stealth attack. The damage from ambush and surprise attack comes from stealth.
Add PvP loot drops for some risk/reward in this game.
Captain Morgan Society
Zub
How'd ya feel like scraping the barncles off me rudder.. Matey..4 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭Magicka based burst NB will suffer. Thats for sure. And was magicka based burst NBs burst the problem? I think not.
Not really... Magicka burst based NBs never relied on stealth that much. Their damage comes from Ambush->Surprise Attack->Soul Harvest/Tether
Only ones suffering from this change are stamina builds... you will no longer be able to burst people in zergs before they get healed, so all those players who liked stealthy gameplay will be driven to the zergballs & they'll have to change their gear so they can dmg shield or heal.
Just what the PvP needed, more zergballs.
I am all magicka build myself. I rely 100% on stealth attack. The damage from ambush and surprise attack comes from stealth.
Well, I should've specified it more clearly I guess.
It doesn't rely on the sneak attack damage bonus (which is what got removed).
Your ambush is just as strong from out of stealth, as it is from stealth itself (unless you are using the Stygian set).
Shadowy Disguise was not affected (you can still use it for extra crit/stun on Surprise Attack), but it does not give you more damage by itself.
Ambush->Surprise Attack->Soul Harvest/Tether will still burst people down.Edited by Decimus on October 21, 2014 1:23PM0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If I want to kill an enemy instant and no one else is around..
Combat Prayer, Ambush, Soul Tether
If the enemy is under 25% now - > Impale
- otherwise Veiled Strike until he is.
Works perfectly without stealth but I don't like this kind of playstyle.R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -4 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Isn't this a case of PvE affecting PvP really? They want stamina based builds and weapon skill line, to be competitive in trials and other carebear activities.
Boosting sustained dps, spam-friendly skills etc, making them more in line with magicka builds.
(Something I'm awfully happy about, since my templar cant compete with other classes as caster/staff dps in PvE.)
But I guess the drawback is this. When 2-Hander and bow is made more simliar to staff dps, you will also be forced to give up some of the burst in PvP.
Worse case scenario, weapon skills line dps still sucks and still inferior to staffs in PvE. No one can burst down high priority targets in PvP.
Best case scenario. We finally get some balance between stamina- and magicka based builds. Stamina builds can dish out good dmg in PvP, without depending on sneak.2 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭If I want to kill an enemy instant and no one else is around..
Combat Prayer, Ambush, Soul Tether
If the enemy is under 25% now - > Impale
- otherwise Veiled Strike until he is.
Works perfectly without stealth but I don't like this kind of playstyle.
Exactly what I've been saying, removing the sneak attack modifier only serves to hurt the stamina builds, which actually relied on that kind of damage since they lack heals & dmg shields (as they should).
For the record, I don't like "one shots" either (although they can be countered by any class), but there are more elegant solutions for fixing the problem than removing burst damage from the game altogether.
Just look at the backlash ZOS got from effectively removing critical strike chance (a staple RPG element) from the game.Isn't this a case of PvE affecting PvP really? They want stamina based builds and weapon skill line, to be competitive in trials and other carebear activities.
Boosting sustained dps, spam-friendly skills etc, making them more in line with magicka builds.
(Something I'm awfully happy about, since my templar cant compete with other classes as caster/staff dps in PvE.)
But I guess the drawback is this. When 2-Hander and bow is made more simliar to staff dps, you will also be forced to give up some of the burst in PvP.
Worse case scenario, weapon skills line dps still sucks and still inferior to staffs in PvE. No one can burst down high priority targets in PvP.
Best case scenario. We finally get some balance between stamina- and magicka based builds. Stamina builds can dish out good dmg in PvP, without depending on sneak.
Well, sneak damage has never been a big factor in the long PvE fights, so it is likely the other way around.
In my opinion, making stamina builds just like magicka builds, with virtually no difference (same dmg, same kind of skills, same kind of gameplay etc) is not a good idea. In fact, it's a horrible idea for those who enjoyed a different kind of gameplay.
Stamina builds were already required to give up on effective self heals & dmg shields in order to deal that burst damage, it's only fair to assume they'd be atleast able to deal normal damage after that burst (which magicka builds can also do, as mentioned above).Edited by Decimus on October 21, 2014 1:48PM1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yes but they won't balance it out. Like other people have pointed out, there is a skill already in place to deal with sneak attacks. This is an example of ZOS just deciding it's a lot easier to tweak some numbers than to figure out why a skill isn't working the way it should. Obviously Radiant Magelight was intended for PvP, how often do you get sneak attacked from NPCs?Speaking as a NB, I would gladly trade some of my attack prowess (that's usually hit and miss anyway) for a more robust self heal or the ability to stand and fight more than is possible now.
I can see how NBs were intended to strike from shadow deal a burst of damage and then bugger off again, but what happens more often than not is we just get pinned in place, our stam gets drained, and we die. I think playing cautiously and attacking from a superior position should be rewarded, but insta killing anyone isn't fun in the long term.
That all said, I think there are more prevalent issues that aren't being addressed with a greater potential to harm gameplay. Lag freezing you in place due to impulse/bat swarm spam effectively is an instant kill so if NBs are having their one specialty modified it would be nice if they gave other issues a once over as well.
This is so irksome because every time they fix this class or add some new dimension to stealth in general people throw a tantrum and they cowardly nerf it. As a stamina build nightblade the only advantage you have is stealth and surprise against DK's and templars and even Bolt Escaping sorcerers. It takes a bit of skill and setup to take on multiple enemies in PvP as a nightblade since we have di<k for defense. Anyone who is complaining about nightblades being OP seriously needs to L2P. I'm sorry that you can't just run around in a dress and stick and win the game anymore. Learn to play tactically.
:trollin:1 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
Can't believe someone didn't mention this yet. The misinformation people spout of on these forums without understanding changes. That change is not only the stealth change. You must remember they also reduced lethal arrow (snipe) damage on the PTS because they decreased the cast time. Basically they increased the dps with snipe quite a bit and lowered its actual damage hit by 9%. You must take that into account with your numbers as you now have 2 things causing lower damage. I also think someone posting "1400ish" and 1100ish numbers means somebody did some rounding to further prove their point, but thats just speculation on my part so we can ignore it.
TLDR: The sky is not falling people, chill the ef out. It is clear Zeni felt that insta gibbing people was not good for the game (its not and never is), you'll be fine. At worst you'll still insta gib some people, just not quite as many so more players will actually have a moment to react.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
Can't believe someone didn't mention this yet. The misinformation people spout of on these forums without understanding changes. That change is not only the stealth change. You must remember they also reduced lethal arrow (snipe) damage on the PTS because they decreased the cast time. Basically they increased the dps with snipe quite a bit and lowered its actual damage hit by 9%. You must take that into account with your numbers as you now have 2 things causing lower damage. I also think someone posting "1400ish" and 1100ish numbers means somebody did some rounding to further prove their point, but thats just speculation on my part so we can ignore it.
TLDR: The sky is not falling people, chill the ef out. It is clear Zeni felt that insta gibbing people was not good for the game (its not and never is), you'll be fine. At worst you'll still insta gib some people, just not quite as many so more players will actually have a moment to react.
I did round, down on both numbers....It still a 300 damage difference from before.. I was also hitting a Werewolf..but i'm pretty sure that 50% bonus damage only applies when they're in werewolf form.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You are correct, one of the caveats with werewolves is that that damage only affects them in WW form. But I just wanted to be clear that 300 damage bonus is a combination of things, not just the sneak attack damage nerf, but also the lowering of snipe damage due to the cast speed buff it got. You can now basically shoot 3 lethal arrows before the 1st hits your target, quite some burst there. Clearly the are trying to up lethal arrow dps, but they needed to put in check its burst else more and more people (even those who stack armor or health) would be getting instagibbed which is NEVER good for a game. Never.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
Can't believe someone didn't mention this yet. The misinformation people spout of on these forums without understanding changes. That change is not only the stealth change. You must remember they also reduced lethal arrow (snipe) damage on the PTS because they decreased the cast time. Basically they increased the dps with snipe quite a bit and lowered its actual damage hit by 9%. You must take that into account with your numbers as you now have 2 things causing lower damage. I also think someone posting "1400ish" and 1100ish numbers means somebody did some rounding to further prove their point, but thats just speculation on my part so we can ignore it.
TLDR: The sky is not falling people, chill the ef out. It is clear Zeni felt that insta gibbing people was not good for the game (its not and never is), you'll be fine. At worst you'll still insta gib some people, just not quite as many so more players will actually have a moment to react.
I did round, down on both numbers....It still a 300 damage difference from before.. I was also hitting a Werewolf..but i'm pretty sure that 50% bonus damage only applies when they're in werewolf form.
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Ifthir_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I was just thinking how easy it is to one shot blazing shield templars and reflective scales dks.
I mean its rare that I see those skills used in PvP, right?2 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭Nb's arent warriors, they are gankers. I say let them have their style of play. My only issue is how they can vanish when they fail from killing you and even with magelight....still can find them because they are sprinting in stealth....kinda ruins the rules of counter attacking.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
You are correct, one of the caveats with werewolves is that that damage only affects them in WW form. But I just wanted to be clear that 300 damage bonus is a combination of things, not just the sneak attack damage nerf, but also the lowering of snipe damage due to the cast speed buff it got. You can now basically shoot 3 lethal arrows before the 1st hits your target, quite some burst there. Clearly the are trying to up lethal arrow dps, but they needed to put in check its burst else more and more people (even those who stack armor or health) would be getting instagibbed which is NEVER good for a game. Never.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
Can't believe someone didn't mention this yet. The misinformation people spout of on these forums without understanding changes. That change is not only the stealth change. You must remember they also reduced lethal arrow (snipe) damage on the PTS because they decreased the cast time. Basically they increased the dps with snipe quite a bit and lowered its actual damage hit by 9%. You must take that into account with your numbers as you now have 2 things causing lower damage. I also think someone posting "1400ish" and 1100ish numbers means somebody did some rounding to further prove their point, but thats just speculation on my part so we can ignore it.
TLDR: The sky is not falling people, chill the ef out. It is clear Zeni felt that insta gibbing people was not good for the game (its not and never is), you'll be fine. At worst you'll still insta gib some people, just not quite as many so more players will actually have a moment to react.
I did round, down on both numbers....It still a 300 damage difference from before.. I was also hitting a Werewolf..but i'm pretty sure that 50% bonus damage only applies when they're in werewolf form.
Not correct, as has been reported multiple times on the PTS forums.
Lower cast time also means faster animation, which lands the Snipe before you've even got the chance to queue up a heavy attack. Also, if you were to spam Snipe 3 times in row, there would always be the 1,3~ second gap between them.
Off Topic: if poison damage hurts werewolves only in werewolf form, what is the downside of going werewolf only for passives? I've heard Fighters Guild abilities also hurt them only when in werewolf form.0 -
ghengis_dhan✭✭✭Apparently, sweeping changes are more appealing changes to make than fixing bugs that impact strategic character builds and gameplay.
It never ceases to amaze me how little people understand software development. Not all bugs are easy to find or fix. If a bug has been mentioned multiple times, it is on their list of things to fix, and they have a team working on it. If you don't believe me, check out the patch notes.The devs in this game should never be able to work on a game again. There is a move that does this. Fix it.
C, C++, T-SQL software developer since 1995."It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
Teddy Roosevelt, Paris, 19103 -
ZeroTheCat✭✭As an NB with bow that's stamina heavy and weapon damage heavy, I can see why they have changed this. I've brought down well known players in just a few shots, the from stealth opener being the big hit using snipe, and while through the air mark target, then it's cloak, heavy shot, venom and heavy. BOOM! (that's if they last that long, usually have camo hunter on too)
While that's enjoyable play style for me, it's pretty easy to do once you've built yourself for it, and really with bow your hit from stealth can be stupidly high and usually when you do hit from stealth with a bow, your target isn't reflecting, or stacking shields as they dont know your there.
Only time I can do this and get some serious burst is if the target is on horseback riding away from me. Still that is no guarantee of a kill. This NEVER happens if Im shooting into a zerg or smaller group of players with shields and buffs. Many times my snipe hit for only 2-300 from stealth!(??) As a stamina bow build player this actually breaks my build completely. I already was trying to expeiment with different things since it didnt do enough damage but this is sadly a game breaker. I really thought ZOS had understood that the stamina builds needed some love but apparently not..
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Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You are correct, one of the caveats with werewolves is that that damage only affects them in WW form. But I just wanted to be clear that 300 damage bonus is a combination of things, not just the sneak attack damage nerf, but also the lowering of snipe damage due to the cast speed buff it got. You can now basically shoot 3 lethal arrows before the 1st hits your target, quite some burst there. Clearly the are trying to up lethal arrow dps, but they needed to put in check its burst else more and more people (even those who stack armor or health) would be getting instagibbed which is NEVER good for a game. Never.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
Can't believe someone didn't mention this yet. The misinformation people spout of on these forums without understanding changes. That change is not only the stealth change. You must remember they also reduced lethal arrow (snipe) damage on the PTS because they decreased the cast time. Basically they increased the dps with snipe quite a bit and lowered its actual damage hit by 9%. You must take that into account with your numbers as you now have 2 things causing lower damage. I also think someone posting "1400ish" and 1100ish numbers means somebody did some rounding to further prove their point, but thats just speculation on my part so we can ignore it.
TLDR: The sky is not falling people, chill the ef out. It is clear Zeni felt that insta gibbing people was not good for the game (its not and never is), you'll be fine. At worst you'll still insta gib some people, just not quite as many so more players will actually have a moment to react.
I did round, down on both numbers....It still a 300 damage difference from before.. I was also hitting a Werewolf..but i'm pretty sure that 50% bonus damage only applies when they're in werewolf form.
Not correct, as has been reported multiple times on the PTS forums.
Lower cast time also means faster animation, which lands the Snipe before you've even got the chance to queue up a heavy attack. Also, if you were to spam Snipe 3 times in row, there would always be the 1,3~ second gap between them.
Off Topic: if poison damage hurts werewolves only in werewolf form, what is the downside of going werewolf only for passives? I've heard Fighters Guild abilities also hurt them only when in werewolf form.
Thanks for the clarification, didn't know that. As for your off topic question, from talking to people who went WW in our guild, most of those passives only are active while in WW form as well so they go hand in hand. The only thing I think that works outside of WW form is the increased ulti gain and longer WW form duration of allies.0 -
ZeroTheCat✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
WTF!?! That's almost 30 %?! Is this confirmed??0 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZeroTheCat wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
WTF!?! That's almost 30 %?! Is this confirmed??
Please read the following posts, this is not all due to sneak changes, they also reduced snipe damage. For the love of god read patch notes. Chill out. I'm going to get flagged for spamming because I say this so much but seriously, the sky is not falling... relax, it is not that massive of a change for the love of god relax. Stop twitch reacting to things.
Edited by Huntler on October 21, 2014 3:46PM0 -
shebali✭✭✭Why don't they just fix the snipe move. Lower that by 10% Not a nerf to all sneak damage moves.
P.S I thought they just made the damage for snipe more not that many patches ago? WTF ZOS. Buff, something then nerf it?3 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why don't they just fix the snipe move. Lower that by 10% Not a nerf to all sneak damage moves.
P.S I thought they just made the damage for snipe more not that many patches ago? WTF ZOS. Buff, something then nerf it?
It's not the same. A buff to Snipe is a buff to the ability used in & out of stealth. Clearly they are happy with the damage done out of stealth, but not happy with the damage done from stealth.
At least that's what I'm reading from this.Edited by Maulkin on October 21, 2014 3:57PMEU | PC | AD0 -
shebali✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Why don't they just fix the snipe move. Lower that by 10% Not a nerf to all sneak damage moves.
P.S I thought they just made the damage for snipe more not that many patches ago? WTF ZOS. Buff, something then nerf it?
It's not the same. A buff to Snipe is a buff to the ability used in & out of stealth. Clearly they are happy with the damage done out of sneak, but not happy with the damage done from sneak.
At least that's what I'm reading from this.
Then lower that move sneak damage or remove it since it is a ranged attack. There is a risk when using melee in sneak while a bow user does not have those.
0 -
ZeroTheCat✭✭ZeroTheCat wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
WTF!?! That's almost 30 %?! Is this confirmed??
Please read the following posts, this is not all due to sneak changes, they also reduced snipe damage. For the love of god read patch notes. Chill out. I'm going to get flagged for spamming because I say this so much but seriously, the sky is not falling... relax, it is not that massive of a change for the love of god relax. Stop twitch reacting to things.
I did read all posts. You however didn't seem to read mine. The sky IS falling since BOTH these changes are affecting me/my build! If I loose 30% damage my build is broken. Completely! Its definitely a massive change! Not only mine though, all people trying to play a stealth build with stamina/bow are affected by this. Obvioulsy not for you since you are defending this change. This also affects NBs more than other classes, since we rely heavily on stealth...3 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
False, your build is fine. You are not losing 30% damage because 1 hit is not your damage in a vacuum. Part of that 1 hit 30% damage decrease is actually a damage INCREASE. The reduced casting time of snipe, while slightly reduced damage, they significantly increased the dps on the ability (it is way way faster now). You need to understand that maybe 1 shot is less damage, but you will actually be doing more damage in total when you integrate over time.ZeroTheCat wrote: »ZeroTheCat wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
WTF!?! That's almost 30 %?! Is this confirmed??
Please read the following posts, this is not all due to sneak changes, they also reduced snipe damage. For the love of god read patch notes. Chill out. I'm going to get flagged for spamming because I say this so much but seriously, the sky is not falling... relax, it is not that massive of a change for the love of god relax. Stop twitch reacting to things.
I did read all posts. You however didn't seem to read mine. The sky IS falling since BOTH these changes are affecting me/my build! If I loose 30% damage my build is broken. Completely! Its definitely a massive change! Not only mine though, all people trying to play a stealth build with stamina/bow are affected by this. Obvioulsy not for you since you are defending this change. This also affects NBs more than other classes, since we rely heavily on stealth...
I swear... you people...
Sorry for sounding like a ***, but the blatant BS on these forums is reaching extreme levels. I shouldn't have to explain this to people, most of you are probably adults with functioning brains and jobs. Please take the time to rationally think about changes, this change is not made in a vacuum. It is coupled with many different things and has been a long time coming with two level cap increases that have raised weapon damage by a MASSIVE margin. This is meant to bring the insta gib back in line, that is it, it will not change your builds unless the entire purpose of your build was to global cooldown someone and otherwise be useless. If that is your build, I am not sorry that that is being nerfed and no one should be. Insta gibbing people who have decent builds is not good for the game (I am obviously not talking about insta gibbing someone with 2400 health). If you cannot see that insta gibbing is bad for the game, say it now so I do not waste my time talking to you and proving you wrong.Edited by Huntler on October 21, 2014 4:23PM3 -
ZeroTheCat✭✭
False, your build is fine. You are not losing 30% damage because 1 hit is not your damage in a vacuum. Part of that 1 hit 30% damage decrease is actually a damage INCREASE. The reduced casting time of snipe, while slightly reduced damage, they significantly increased the dps on the ability (it is way way faster now). You need to understand that maybe 1 shot is less damage, but you will actually be doing more damage in total when you integrate over time.ZeroTheCat wrote: »ZeroTheCat wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
WTF!?! That's almost 30 %?! Is this confirmed??
Please read the following posts, this is not all due to sneak changes, they also reduced snipe damage. For the love of god read patch notes. Chill out. I'm going to get flagged for spamming because I say this so much but seriously, the sky is not falling... relax, it is not that massive of a change for the love of god relax. Stop twitch reacting to things.
I did read all posts. You however didn't seem to read mine. The sky IS falling since BOTH these changes are affecting me/my build! If I loose 30% damage my build is broken. Completely! Its definitely a massive change! Not only mine though, all people trying to play a stealth build with stamina/bow are affected by this. Obvioulsy not for you since you are defending this change. This also affects NBs more than other classes, since we rely heavily on stealth...
I swear... you people...
And you need to realize I rely on burst, NOT DPS. This is PVP, not PVE. ^^ I'm sure someone can explain the difference. I can't be bothered with this anymore. 3 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZeroTheCat wrote: »
False, your build is fine. You are not losing 30% damage because 1 hit is not your damage in a vacuum. Part of that 1 hit 30% damage decrease is actually a damage INCREASE. The reduced casting time of snipe, while slightly reduced damage, they significantly increased the dps on the ability (it is way way faster now). You need to understand that maybe 1 shot is less damage, but you will actually be doing more damage in total when you integrate over time.ZeroTheCat wrote: »ZeroTheCat wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
WTF!?! That's almost 30 %?! Is this confirmed??
Please read the following posts, this is not all due to sneak changes, they also reduced snipe damage. For the love of god read patch notes. Chill out. I'm going to get flagged for spamming because I say this so much but seriously, the sky is not falling... relax, it is not that massive of a change for the love of god relax. Stop twitch reacting to things.
I did read all posts. You however didn't seem to read mine. The sky IS falling since BOTH these changes are affecting me/my build! If I loose 30% damage my build is broken. Completely! Its definitely a massive change! Not only mine though, all people trying to play a stealth build with stamina/bow are affected by this. Obvioulsy not for you since you are defending this change. This also affects NBs more than other classes, since we rely heavily on stealth...
I swear... you people...
And you need to realize I rely on burst, NOT DPS. This is PVP, not PVE. ^^ I'm sure someone can explain the difference. I can't be bothered with this anymore.
Yes it is PvP, and see my edits that I added as you were typing on how insta gibbing is bad for the game.1 -
ZeroTheCat✭✭ZeroTheCat wrote: »
False, your build is fine. You are not losing 30% damage because 1 hit is not your damage in a vacuum. Part of that 1 hit 30% damage decrease is actually a damage INCREASE. The reduced casting time of snipe, while slightly reduced damage, they significantly increased the dps on the ability (it is way way faster now). You need to understand that maybe 1 shot is less damage, but you will actually be doing more damage in total when you integrate over time.ZeroTheCat wrote: »ZeroTheCat wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
WTF!?! That's almost 30 %?! Is this confirmed??
Please read the following posts, this is not all due to sneak changes, they also reduced snipe damage. For the love of god read patch notes. Chill out. I'm going to get flagged for spamming because I say this so much but seriously, the sky is not falling... relax, it is not that massive of a change for the love of god relax. Stop twitch reacting to things.
I did read all posts. You however didn't seem to read mine. The sky IS falling since BOTH these changes are affecting me/my build! If I loose 30% damage my build is broken. Completely! Its definitely a massive change! Not only mine though, all people trying to play a stealth build with stamina/bow are affected by this. Obvioulsy not for you since you are defending this change. This also affects NBs more than other classes, since we rely heavily on stealth...
I swear... you people...
And you need to realize I rely on burst, NOT DPS. This is PVP, not PVE. ^^ I'm sure someone can explain the difference. I can't be bothered with this anymore.
Yes it is PvP, and see my edits that I added as you were typing on how insta gibbing is bad for the game.
Nice straw man, dude. This is not about "insta gibbing". It's about destroying another way of playing the game. You obviously haven't played stamina/medium armor builds since you are having a hard time understanding the effects off this change. I guess we all are supposed to wear dresses and carry sticks to be viable, huh..4 -
MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭ZeroTheCat wrote: »Nice straw man, dude. This is not about "insta gibbing". It's about destroying another way of playing the game. You obviously haven't played stamina/medium armor builds since you are having a hard time understanding the effects off this change. I guess we all are supposed to wear dresses and carry sticks to be viable, huh.
Oooh, I love the irony when this happens. Someone makes a straw man seconds after accusing their worthy opponent of one. Don't forget liberal helpings of 'you clearly don't understand the subject' Ad Hominemmy goodness.
On the actual scrap of substance in your post ("This is not about "insta gibbing". It's about destroying another way of playing the game"), those two sentences are not as mutually exclusive as you think. Argue semantics all you want, but your version of 'playing the game" as it currently stands involves doing so much initial damage that the fight is done before the target knows you exist. Stealth is supposed to provide an advantage, not decide the entire fight.I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You are correct, one of the caveats with werewolves is that that damage only affects them in WW form. But I just wanted to be clear that 300 damage bonus is a combination of things, not just the sneak attack damage nerf, but also the lowering of snipe damage due to the cast speed buff it got. You can now basically shoot 3 lethal arrows before the 1st hits your target, quite some burst there. Clearly the are trying to up lethal arrow dps, but they needed to put in check its burst else more and more people (even those who stack armor or health) would be getting instagibbed which is NEVER good for a game. Never.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
Can't believe someone didn't mention this yet. The misinformation people spout of on these forums without understanding changes. That change is not only the stealth change. You must remember they also reduced lethal arrow (snipe) damage on the PTS because they decreased the cast time. Basically they increased the dps with snipe quite a bit and lowered its actual damage hit by 9%. You must take that into account with your numbers as you now have 2 things causing lower damage. I also think someone posting "1400ish" and 1100ish numbers means somebody did some rounding to further prove their point, but thats just speculation on my part so we can ignore it.
TLDR: The sky is not falling people, chill the ef out. It is clear Zeni felt that insta gibbing people was not good for the game (its not and never is), you'll be fine. At worst you'll still insta gib some people, just not quite as many so more players will actually have a moment to react.
I did round, down on both numbers....It still a 300 damage difference from before.. I was also hitting a Werewolf..but i'm pretty sure that 50% bonus damage only applies when they're in werewolf form.
I could shoot 1 Lethal Arrow + 1 Heavy + Venom + Light attack all at once before the cast time decrease..that wasn't a buff...That was a nerf to burst damage they did.
the 5% damage reduction was just tacked on for *** and giggles to gimp burst even more.
The counter to sneak attack was already in the game in the form of Radiant Mage Light..If people didn't want to run it, that was their own problem.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »
You are correct, one of the caveats with werewolves is that that damage only affects them in WW form. But I just wanted to be clear that 300 damage bonus is a combination of things, not just the sneak attack damage nerf, but also the lowering of snipe damage due to the cast speed buff it got. You can now basically shoot 3 lethal arrows before the 1st hits your target, quite some burst there. Clearly the are trying to up lethal arrow dps, but they needed to put in check its burst else more and more people (even those who stack armor or health) would be getting instagibbed which is NEVER good for a game. Never.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Tested on PTS
1400ish damage on regular servers right now is what I do with Lethal Arrow
PTS 1100 Damage
Also found some useful information out..
Werewolf doesn't make you glow with Camo Hunter unless you're in Werewolf Form, you also don't take the damage from it either until you're in Werewolf Form
Can't believe someone didn't mention this yet. The misinformation people spout of on these forums without understanding changes. That change is not only the stealth change. You must remember they also reduced lethal arrow (snipe) damage on the PTS because they decreased the cast time. Basically they increased the dps with snipe quite a bit and lowered its actual damage hit by 9%. You must take that into account with your numbers as you now have 2 things causing lower damage. I also think someone posting "1400ish" and 1100ish numbers means somebody did some rounding to further prove their point, but thats just speculation on my part so we can ignore it.
TLDR: The sky is not falling people, chill the ef out. It is clear Zeni felt that insta gibbing people was not good for the game (its not and never is), you'll be fine. At worst you'll still insta gib some people, just not quite as many so more players will actually have a moment to react.
I did round, down on both numbers....It still a 300 damage difference from before.. I was also hitting a Werewolf..but i'm pretty sure that 50% bonus damage only applies when they're in werewolf form.
I could shoot 1 Lethal Arrow + 1 Heavy + Venom + Light attack all at once before the cast time decrease..that wasn't a buff...That was a nerf to burst damage they did.
the 5% damage reduction was just tacked on for *** and giggles to gimp burst even more.
The counter to sneak attack was already in the game in the form of Radiant Mage Light..If people didn't want to run it, that was their own problem.
Well 1 radiant is bugged, two it is a nerf to burst yes, but an increase in dps. As the above eloquent poster put:ZeroTheCat wrote: »Nice straw man, dude. This is not about "insta gibbing". It's about destroying another way of playing the game. You obviously haven't played stamina/medium armor builds since you are having a hard time understanding the effects off this change. I guess we all are supposed to wear dresses and carry sticks to be viable, huh.
Oooh, I love the irony when this happens. Someone makes a straw man seconds after accusing their worthy opponent of one. Don't forget liberal helpings of 'you clearly don't understand the subject' Ad Hominemmy goodness.
On the actual scrap of substance in your post ("This is not about "insta gibbing". It's about destroying another way of playing the game"), those two sentences are not as mutually exclusive as you think. Argue semantics all you want, but your version of 'playing the game" as it currently stands involves doing so much initial damage that the fight is done before the target knows you exist. Stealth is supposed to provide an advantage, not decide the entire fight.
It is clear what they want to do, reduce the likelihood of a won fight before it even happens and return to stealth as an advantage not an iwin against anyone not alone. That can only be good for the game. So as a tradeoff they increased the dps of something while slightly (only slightly) nerfing its burst.1 -
Grim13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Relax, everyone... this is just ZOS balancing the classes... now run along and play the way you want to:
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