How killing NPC's COULD be a good idea.
Phinix1
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There could definitely be some problems with this proposed NPC murder system, mainly due to the fact that this is not a solo game. This has worked in every other Elder Scrolls game BECAUSE they were SOLO, offline games.
That means if I chose to commit a crime or kill some NPC, that is MY CHOICE, and I accept the consequences to my game. In an online game I have NO CHOICE, and people will just go around slaughtering everything that talks just to grief people. No more atmospheric NPC's, killing quest givers over and over the second they spawn, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for a justice system. I think elements of it could be very cool if executed correctly. Some things I think might help to put this on the right track:
Other than that, I look forward to the changes.
Edited by Phinix1 on July 20, 2014 4:28PM That means if I chose to commit a crime or kill some NPC, that is MY CHOICE, and I accept the consequences to my game. In an online game I have NO CHOICE, and people will just go around slaughtering everything that talks just to grief people. No more atmospheric NPC's, killing quest givers over and over the second they spawn, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for a justice system. I think elements of it could be very cool if executed correctly. Some things I think might help to put this on the right track:
- Kill-able NPC's are separate from the main NPC's. They are like the random NPC mods for other ES games where they have no unique name or purpose other than to wander the roads and cities and get slaughtered... er... provide ambiance.
- Certain of these NPC's will randomly interact with other anonymous (kill-able) NPC's in a way much like the Radiant AI system in Skyrim. For example, a bully will accost some random shoppers, pickpockets and corrupt authority figures plague the streets, along with wealthy jerks and snobs, all with unique random dialogue interactions. Enough diversity and interaction to cover the gamut of potential alignments, giving both good and bad aligned characters a REASON to want to kill certain NPC's.
- Some sort of mission tie-in to the Thieves and Dark Brotherhood guilds to take out informants, agents, extortionists, competition, or targets of a Sacrament, etc.
- Rather than re-spawn these NPC's will have fear behavior where they will avoid the scene of a crime, and react to murder by running off and hiding. Maybe they come back, maybe not. But other random characters will trickle in eventually.
- Have some sort of gossip dialogue effected by events in the area. (Oh! Dead body! ...only more involved LOL.)
- Have these random NPC's relegated only to certain areas of the town so they won't be in the way and causing too much chatter noise.
- Etc.
Other than that, I look forward to the changes.
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Svann✭✭✭I think it likely that you cant kill all the npcs. Not even close. They will add killable npcs instead.7
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Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭I cant wait our vampire guild is already talking about talking over whole cities and killing all the guards.9 -
Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭I think they should let players heal npcs. Or resurrect them back to life.I r robot
hear me roar8 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »I think they should let players heal npcs. Or resurrect them back to life.
So do I then you become active in PVP.1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Read this thread.
The griefers are already getting giddy at the prospect of exploiting and abusing this system just to grief people.lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »There will be no NPCs and whole cities cleared of guards... Guilds will own entire towns and grief kills for days... sounds fun cant wait to start my grief guild!
Of course this won't be the case. They are going to make NPC's independent of each person's client. So, for example, if I go into town and kill all the NPC's then from that point on, those NPC's will not exist in my game.
This won't impact anybody else's game, as the NPC's will be "instanced" to each person's play through. No one will be able to grief anyone else by killing all of the NPC's, vendors, quest givers, guards, etc.
But, your personal bounty will be known to everyone else, and when it gets high enough, you will be flagged for execution. I think it's a fun system that adds a whole other layer of complexity to the game.
I hope this is the case.Edited by Phinix1 on July 19, 2014 11:01PM7 -
Svann✭✭✭So kill a guard and you get a bounty on your head? Whats to prevent 2 players from killing each other over and over to farm bounties?10
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Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »I think they should let players heal npcs. Or resurrect them back to life.
So do I then you become active in PVP.
Idk... Only time will tell what happens with this.I r robot
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Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭If you dont become active after you help someone then the game would be completely broken and stupid!0
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IF they instance the NPC's you can kill so that no one can kill the ones you see but you, then it won't be so bad.
Maybe they will add some really annoying and obnoxious ones that you can sneak attack and kill without anyone seeing, then feel like you did the world a service by getting away with murder! XD0 -
Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »IF they instance the NPC's you can kill so that no one can kill the ones you see but you, then it won't be so bad.
Maybe they will add some really annoying and obnoxious ones that you can sneak attack and kill without anyone seeing, then feel like you did the world a service by getting away with murder! XD
Instances npcs will ruin the entire thing...I r robot
hear me roar5 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »IF they instance the NPC's you can kill so that no one can kill the ones you see but you, then it won't be so bad.
Maybe they will add some really annoying and obnoxious ones that you can sneak attack and kill without anyone seeing, then feel like you did the world a service by getting away with murder! XD
Instances npcs will ruin the entire thing...
Only if you were looking forward to griefing people that enjoy atmospheric NPC's.
I am not paying to play an online game to satisfy people's constant need for attention and recognition.15 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »IF they instance the NPC's you can kill so that no one can kill the ones you see but you, then it won't be so bad.
Maybe they will add some really annoying and obnoxious ones that you can sneak attack and kill without anyone seeing, then feel like you did the world a service by getting away with murder! XD
Instances npcs will ruin the entire thing...
Only if you were looking forward to griefing people that enjoy atmospheric NPC's.
I am not paying to play an online game to satisfy people's constant need for attention and recognition.
They will not be instigated NPCs...1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I wouldn't worry about it to much. After enough Rage/Whine posts, they will decide to add some kind of Toggle/Open-World PVP off switch or something.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_SandraF on July 20, 2014 2:24AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
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Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭
No. The only reason I'm excited about this is because I want to see someone kill an npc, then run over there and help a guard kick his ass.AlienDiplomat wrote: »Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »IF they instance the NPC's you can kill so that no one can kill the ones you see but you, then it won't be so bad.
Maybe they will add some really annoying and obnoxious ones that you can sneak attack and kill without anyone seeing, then feel like you did the world a service by getting away with murder! XD
Instances npcs will ruin the entire thing...
Only if you were looking forward to griefing people that enjoy atmospheric NPC's.
I am not paying to play an online game to satisfy people's constant need for attention and recognition.
I r robot
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »I wouldn't worry about it to much. After enough Rage/Whine posts, they will decide to add some kind of Toggle/Open-World PVP off switch or something.
What a wonderful community we have, where anyone that you disagree with needs to be called a raging whiner for having an opinion.
Moderator Edit: Edited quote from moderated post.Edited by ZOS_SandraF on July 20, 2014 2:27AM7 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »I wouldn't worry about it to much. After enough Rage/Whine posts like the OP, they will decide to add some kind of Toggle/Open-World PVP off switch or something.
What a wonderful community we have, where anyone that you disagree with needs to be called a raging whiner for having an opinion.
Every post that disagrees with me isn't a Rage or Wine post. However, your post in particular read as a Rage post.
Regardless, I don't think the problem you are fearing will exist. There are to many anti-PVP people that are offended by just the idea of PVP for them to move forward with this as it is. I expect some kind of toggle opt out feature.
I also doubt that all NPCs will be fair game. There will probably be NPCs that are there to be killed, but some will just remain non-combatant parts of the atmosphere.Edited by timidobserver on July 19, 2014 11:19PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)2 -
Taz✭✭✭This game is phased enough as it is. I'd rather be able to see things happen and react to them, than to see someone fire an arrow into nothing.
I think the consequences for killing an NPC should be brutal (and given the high monetary cost, it will be) and that guards should be pretty powerful. But the Justice System is something that a LOT of people are looking forward to, it'll feel extremely TES, and it can belong perfectly fine in this game.
It's not about griefers. Like other posters have said, they'll probably /add/ killable NPCs, won't let quest/merchant/other important NPCs be killed, and there are many atmospheric NPCs already in that 'essential' group.
As far as not engaging in world PvP, just don't get that bounty. There's an element of stealth and skill involved, and that is amazing.Edited by Taz on July 19, 2014 11:19PM6 -
Logan9a✭✭✭Not sure why the OP is upset.
It will be a way for part of the community to work on griefing the other part.
I'm sure that's what the game developers had in mind by ignoring the lessons learned in every other MMO...
What could possibly go wrong?7 -
Taz✭✭✭adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »
The bounty stays until you pay it off, I believe. In this case, he'd killed several NPCs, and his bounty was high enough to buy a horse.
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xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am sure they will set up a proper system. Its still in the developement process. what we saw on the quakecon thing was a kinda early system.
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Svann✭✭✭adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »
The bounty stays until you pay it off, I believe. In this case, he'd killed several NPCs, and his bounty was high enough to buy a horse.
Ok that brings back my original question - how do you prevent bounty trading? I could work up a good bounty then have my buddy kill me over and over to rack up mega-gold reward. If the bounty stays through death it just makes this problem worse. Eventually we split the proceeds and I pay off the bounty with plenty extra.4 -
Delith✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »This is NOT a solo game!
This has only worked in every other Elder Scrolls game BECAUSE they were SOLO, offline games.
That means if I chose to commit a crime or kill some NPC, that is MY CHOICE, and I accept the consequences to my game.
In an online game I have NO CHOICE, and people will just go around slaughtering everything that talks just to grief people.
No more atmospheric NPC's. That sounds like total fail to me.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for a justice system. I think elements of it could be very cool if executed correctly. But allowing bored griefers another way to tick people off by killing all the atmospheric NPC's the second they spawn is just a really dumb idea.
Stop trying to copy every little thing from the SOLO ES games.
How about this. Let me mod the game like I did for all the other ES games. I'll just give myself levitate and the bow of 1000 deaths and 1-shot every veteran dungeon boss with my awesome skillxorz!
/sarcasm
But you get my point. Not everything that works in a solo game works/belongs in an online game.
This is a really bad idea and many people like me that enjoy the atmospheric NPC banter and would take personal responsibility not to go around like a bored child killing everything may end up un-subbing over this.
You could always go play Skyrim.
Moderator Edit: Edited quote from moderated post.Edited by ZOS_SandraF on July 20, 2014 2:27AM2 -
Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »
The bounty stays until you pay it off, I believe. In this case, he'd killed several NPCs, and his bounty was high enough to buy a horse.
Ok that brings back my original question - how do you prevent bounty trading? I could work up a good bounty then have my buddy kill me over and over to rack up mega-gold reward. If the bounty stays through death it just makes this problem worse. Eventually we split the proceeds and I pay off the bounty with plenty extra.
Whatever money he makes, you will have to pay. ( I'd think at least ). So you would essentially be giving him money. How do we even know there will be a reward?Edited by Mr.Turtlesworth on July 19, 2014 11:33PMI r robot
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Svann✭✭✭Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »
The bounty stays until you pay it off, I believe. In this case, he'd killed several NPCs, and his bounty was high enough to buy a horse.
Ok that brings back my original question - how do you prevent bounty trading? I could work up a good bounty then have my buddy kill me over and over to rack up mega-gold reward. If the bounty stays through death it just makes this problem worse. Eventually we split the proceeds and I pay off the bounty with plenty extra.
Whatever money he makes, you will have to pay. ( I'd think at least ). So you would essentially be giving him money. How do we even know there will be a reward?
Thats kind of a fix, sorta. What about if I do it on an alt? No need to ever pay it off, just rack up the income. And naturally the alt would have no money in his pocket so the guards cant forcibly take it from him.Edited by Svann on July 19, 2014 11:36PM3 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure there will exists some NPCs that are essential (i.e merchants/quest givers). The monetary cost is high, and apart from the 'pleasure' of the kill, there seems to be no real gain in participating in murder. In addition, the PvP aspect will stave even more hands from the knife due to the fear of imminent punishment from any passerby who sees them.
If people are willing to ignore these costs, and try to kill an NPC, then that is their choice, they will have to accept the consequences. I, of course, would be singing a different tune if murders were so easily completed, with little or no real consequence; but even at its developing stages, the act of murdering has little to nothing to offer to the individual person, and even inflicts punishment. At first glance it seems like enough to prevent players from killing the atmosphere. But is it enough? Probably not. I expect them to learn though.
But even so, would I want it out of the game completely? Heck no. I can deal with people running around with nothing on, and am soon to deal with people running around in pink armor. I'm pretty sure you can deal with a people killing what are likely inconsequential NPCs.2 -
Laz✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »I cant wait our vampire guild is already talking about talking over whole cities and killing all the guards.
And the players will be there to stop you. If you watched the video and listened, you are then flagged to get killed by anyone in that city/zone/whatever for X minutes.Been around watchin'. Time to start talkin'. - Twitch: twitch.tv/lazisonline
Prior host of TESO Elite game-play twitch streams2
