The Elder Scrolls Online

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How killing NPC's COULD be a good idea.

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  • vyndral13preub18_ESO
    vyndral13preub18_ESO
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    AlienDiplomat wrote: »
    Amsel_McKay wrote: »
    Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »
    Amsel_McKay wrote: »
    You dont have to pay the fines, you can run... if you die the fine goes away.

    It does? D:

    Did you think they would make it so you could no longer play a char because the fine was too big? You can clearly see in the video after he died because he could not pay the fine he ended up in a jail with no bounty on him.

    So grief an entire town for an hour, killing quest NPC's the second they spawn over and over for troll lol's, rack up 100k+ bounty...

    Then go die to a crocodile and get off for a 50g repair bill? O.o

    That is silly. You would obviously take off your equipment before you die to the crocodile. so there will be no cost associated with it at all.
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    would you guys stop calling it griefing to kill non-essential NPCs. Geez, I am starting to wish there was complete world pvp so I could teach you what real griefing is.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • Slurg
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    Marcusstratus wrote: »
    -marcusstratus's wife speaking-

    ....and what about when your cat decides to jump on your keyboard and makes you take(steal) some item that happens to be in front of you or cast some spell in the middle of town?
    I can't even count the number of times I've miscast and died because my dog bumped my hand.

    I may have to take a little break when this goes live. It'll be chaos.

    I sure hope this killing NPC thing is instanced. It'll be embarrassing to accidentally steal or kill because my dog wants a pat on the head.
    Edited by Slurg on July 20, 2014 4:43PM
    Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
    Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    yea I don't think ZOS should have to calculate for your animals messing up your playing.

    My cat has gotten me killed before and I have never thought that ZOS needs to make seeing the monitor less mandatory.

    If your cat makes you steal pay the 5g fine (as shown in the video.) Besides, your cat would have to make you sneak and then loot on top of that.

    You are more likely to attack an npcs, but that's really on your end, not ZOS.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • dsalter
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    adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »
    So kill a guard and you get a bounty on your head? Whats to prevent 2 players from killing each other over and over to farm bounties?

    i'd say make it deduct from the criminals gold and if he hasn't got the gold? the bounty hunter doesnt gain any.
    PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread

    EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
    Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.

  • moxiesauce
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    They should really have a jail system for players to pay off their debt if they absolutely refuse to pay it. Also make it so other players can get involved, either by throwing tomatoes at them or being able to break them out, which should also be a crime. It would present a risk for players trying to help out their evil friends lol.
  • zdkazz
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    the fine goes away after several deaths, not just one, as for killing the guard that adds to your bounty and so does fleeing(smaller amount) i think they should make it murder counts like in ultima and mortal online
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    no jail. Being forced to stay in a small cell and do nothing for a set period of time doesn't sound like fun for anyone. There is no WAIT command in ESO.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • Amsel_McKay
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    AlienDiplomat wrote: »
    Amsel_McKay wrote: »
    Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »
    Amsel_McKay wrote: »
    You dont have to pay the fines, you can run... if you die the fine goes away.

    It does? D:

    Did you think they would make it so you could no longer play a char because the fine was too big? You can clearly see in the video after he died because he could not pay the fine he ended up in a jail with no bounty on him.

    So grief an entire town for an hour, killing quest NPC's the second they spawn over and over for troll lol's, rack up 100k+ bounty...

    Then go die to a crocodile and get off for a 50g repair bill? O.o

    A guard or a player kill will remove the bounty... "But you guys will figure out a way to get away from the guards so we are adding player bounty hunters"
  • moxiesauce
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    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    no jail. Being forced to stay in a small cell and do nothing for a set period of time doesn't sound like fun for anyone. There is no WAIT command in ESO.

    It would be a solution for people racking up huge fines, Don't miss the part where I said you can be broken out. If you do a crime and have no friends to help with the mess you made you gotta wait it out... make it every 500-1000g adds a minute. players would be very hesitant to just go on killing spree's. Of course jail would only be an option if stopped by a guard. There would also be fight/run/pay fine. Players wouldn't HAVE to go to jail.

    lol could even allow jail time to count while logged out.
    Edited by moxiesauce on July 20, 2014 6:26PM
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    moxiesauce wrote: »
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    no jail. Being forced to stay in a small cell and do nothing for a set period of time doesn't sound like fun for anyone. There is no WAIT command in ESO.

    It would be a solution for people racking up huge fines, Don't miss the part where I said you can be broken out. If you do a crime and have no friends to help with the mess you made you gotta wait it out... make it every 500-1000g adds a minute. players would be very hesitant to just go on killing spree's. Of course jail would only be an option if stopped by a guard. There would also be fight/run/pay fine. Players wouldn't HAVE to go to jail.

    I never did jail in any TES game, but iirc you lost skill for it, and, as I said, you could use wait.

    If you break out it seems like the bounty would still be on your head, or is that not the case in TES games?

    It's really not a good solution imo because it's not fun gameplay. It shouldn't be a legit punishment, it should be content in and of itself.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • moxiesauce
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    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    moxiesauce wrote: »
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    no jail. Being forced to stay in a small cell and do nothing for a set period of time doesn't sound like fun for anyone. There is no WAIT command in ESO.

    It would be a solution for people racking up huge fines, Don't miss the part where I said you can be broken out. If you do a crime and have no friends to help with the mess you made you gotta wait it out... make it every 500-1000g adds a minute. players would be very hesitant to just go on killing spree's. Of course jail would only be an option if stopped by a guard. There would also be fight/run/pay fine. Players wouldn't HAVE to go to jail.

    I never did jail in any TES game, but iirc you lost skill for it, and, as I said, you could use wait.

    If you break out it seems like the bounty would still be on your head, or is that not the case in TES games?

    It's really not a good solution imo because it's not fun gameplay. It shouldn't be a legit punishment, it should be content in and of itself.

    IMO nothing wrong with additional options at a players dispense. If you don't want to go to jail don't. If other players do, make them feel bad and throw garbage at them lol. It's really simple and wouldn't change anything. I'd say once your in a cell your bounty begins to clear for the duration of time you've been in it. If you're broken out what ever remaining bounty you had will stay, and players will be able to leave the town they are hated in. If you and your friend get caught escaping you'll be stopped and given the option to fight/pay/go back to jail. Trying to break a player free from a cell will also be punishable. pay fine/jail/run/fight.

    It's literally just another OPTION (can't stress that enough) that will bring immersion.

    *maybe even put in a skill, spent with champion points, to be able to pick you're own cell locks*
    Edited by moxiesauce on July 20, 2014 6:41PM
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    moxiesauce wrote: »
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    moxiesauce wrote: »
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    no jail. Being forced to stay in a small cell and do nothing for a set period of time doesn't sound like fun for anyone. There is no WAIT command in ESO.

    It would be a solution for people racking up huge fines, Don't miss the part where I said you can be broken out. If you do a crime and have no friends to help with the mess you made you gotta wait it out... make it every 500-1000g adds a minute. players would be very hesitant to just go on killing spree's. Of course jail would only be an option if stopped by a guard. There would also be fight/run/pay fine. Players wouldn't HAVE to go to jail.

    I never did jail in any TES game, but iirc you lost skill for it, and, as I said, you could use wait.

    If you break out it seems like the bounty would still be on your head, or is that not the case in TES games?

    It's really not a good solution imo because it's not fun gameplay. It shouldn't be a legit punishment, it should be content in and of itself.

    IMO nothing wrong with additional options at a players dispense. If you don't want to go to jail don't. If other players do, make them feel bad and throw garbage at them lol. It's really simple and wouldn't change anything. I'd say once your in a cell your bounty begins to clear for the duration of time you've been in it. If you're broken out what ever remaining bounty you had will stay, and players will be able to leave the town they are hated in. If you and your friend get caught escaping you'll be stopped and given the option to fight/pay/go back to jail. Trying to break a player free from a cell will also be punishable. pay fine/jail/run/fight.

    It's literally just another OPTION (can't stress that enough) that will bring immersion.

    yea I can't really argue with it as optional content.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • indytims_ESO
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    Seriously Zeni - there are features in a single-player game that should -never- make it to an MMO.

    Allowing quest/merchant/bank NPCs to be ganked is going to cost you a crapload of subs. So I predict this won't happen.

    Allowing players to be ganked in non-Cyrodil areas is going to cost you a crapload of subs. So I predict this won't happen, either.

    I am going to go out on a limb and say that they will either add certain killable NPCs, or they'll flag a lot of the currently-exisiting ones as killable. These NPCs will be 'non-essential', or they will be 'phased', much like quest NPCs often are in the game already.

    Yes, there -are- ways for Zeni to make most people happy on this front. I just hope they have the -wisdom- to do it right.
  • Lyrro
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    moxiesauce wrote: »
    Amsel_McKay wrote: »
    When he got killed in the video it said "bounty removed"

    Then we obviously have something to address if that's true. It would give no consequence to action. Unless bounty removed from death + all gold on person ATM lolol.

    And in bank, otherwise, griefers could just empty their wallet into the bank then go on a trolling spree.

  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    yea emptying out the bank and walllet is absurd. This is not bad behavior by the player that needs to be punished, it should be fun.

    Seriously, stop using the term griefer. You have obviously never been griefed. As I said in another post, if there was world pvp and I camped you at wayshrine and killed you every time you respawned that would be griefing. By your estimation, people having lore breaking names would be griefers because they are ruining your immersion.

    Someone killing non-mandatory npcs (and make no mistake, they are not going to let you kill bankers and merchants etc, that would make everyone irritated. Even bad guys need to sell and bank,) in no way effects your gameplay experience.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • moxiesauce
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    Lyrro wrote: »
    moxiesauce wrote: »
    Amsel_McKay wrote: »
    When he got killed in the video it said "bounty removed"

    Then we obviously have something to address if that's true. It would give no consequence to action. Unless bounty removed from death + all gold on person ATM lolol.

    And in bank, otherwise, griefers could just empty their wallet into the bank then go on a trolling spree.

    It's not removed on death, I thought it was when I commented that.
  • moxiesauce
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    indytims_ESO wrote: »
    Seriously Zeni - there are features in a single-player game that should -never- make it to an MMO.

    Allowing quest/merchant/bank NPCs to be ganked is going to cost you a crapload of subs. So I predict this won't happen.

    Allowing players to be ganked in non-Cyrodil areas is going to cost you a crapload of subs. So I predict this won't happen, either.

    I am going to go out on a limb and say that they will either add certain killable NPCs, or they'll flag a lot of the currently-exisiting ones as killable. These NPCs will be 'non-essential', or they will be 'phased', much like quest NPCs often are in the game already.

    Yes, there -are- ways for Zeni to make most people happy on this front. I just hope they have the -wisdom- to do it right.

    They should make everything killable, Make important NPC's phased. Add's to immersion keeps everyone happy.
  • Hamfast
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    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    yea emptying out the bank and walllet is absurd. This is not bad behavior by the player that needs to be punished, it should be fun.

    Seriously, stop using the term griefer. You have obviously never been griefed. As I said in another post, if there was world pvp and I camped you at wayshrine and killed you every time you respawned that would be griefing. By your estimation, people having lore breaking names would be griefers because they are ruining your immersion.

    Someone killing non-mandatory npcs (and make no mistake, they are not going to let you kill bankers and merchants etc, that would make everyone irritated. Even bad guys need to sell and bank,) in no way effects your gameplay experience.
    You are wrong, many of us have been griefed, perhaps not by you, but we have been griefed...

    I have played a game where leaving town to do anything was a death sentence because PKers were camping the gates, and walking was the only way to go to another town... I have played games where people would train the zone to the gate so anyone who stepped in was almost instantly dead... I have returned to turn in a quest only to find every NPC in the area dead and camped by Alliance toons who would kill them as soon as they spawned... We know what griefers are.

    That some of us look at griefing differently then you is just a level of permissiveness, you are more forgiving of bad behavior then others... but bad behavior is bad behavior, some level of it is acceptable, some is not, we add our 2 cents in hopes that we can influence the level of bad behavior acceptability, just like you.
    Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...
  • Dekkameron
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    Even in WoW for a long time quest givers were attackable by enemy factions. So it's not a novel idea.
    - Veteran Combat Librarian -
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    Hamfast wrote: »
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    yea emptying out the bank and walllet is absurd. This is not bad behavior by the player that needs to be punished, it should be fun.

    Seriously, stop using the term griefer. You have obviously never been griefed. As I said in another post, if there was world pvp and I camped you at wayshrine and killed you every time you respawned that would be griefing. By your estimation, people having lore breaking names would be griefers because they are ruining your immersion.

    Someone killing non-mandatory npcs (and make no mistake, they are not going to let you kill bankers and merchants etc, that would make everyone irritated. Even bad guys need to sell and bank,) in no way effects your gameplay experience.
    You are wrong, many of us have been griefed, perhaps not by you, but we have been griefed...

    I have played a game where leaving town to do anything was a death sentence because PKers were camping the gates, and walking was the only way to go to another town... I have played games where people would train the zone to the gate so anyone who stepped in was almost instantly dead... I have returned to turn in a quest only to find every NPC in the area dead and camped by Alliance toons who would kill them as soon as they spawned... We know what griefers are.

    That some of us look at griefing differently then you is just a level of permissiveness, you are more forgiving of bad behavior then others... but bad behavior is bad behavior, some level of it is acceptable, some is not, we add our 2 cents in hopes that we can influence the level of bad behavior acceptability, just like you.

    None of the situations listed are going to happen.

    The stuff you listed isn't bad behavior, it has nothing to do with my permissiveness. It would be working as intended.

    If I decide that I should be the only one to be able to kill -anything- in the game, is it griefing if other people are also able to do so? Obviously not, you don't get to redefine griefing and throw it around like everyone who inconviences you ever is one. You are diminshing a word that should be used for serious situations.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • moxiesauce
    moxiesauce
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    Hamfast wrote: »
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    yea emptying out the bank and walllet is absurd. This is not bad behavior by the player that needs to be punished, it should be fun.

    Seriously, stop using the term griefer. You have obviously never been griefed. As I said in another post, if there was world pvp and I camped you at wayshrine and killed you every time you respawned that would be griefing. By your estimation, people having lore breaking names would be griefers because they are ruining your immersion.

    Someone killing non-mandatory npcs (and make no mistake, they are not going to let you kill bankers and merchants etc, that would make everyone irritated. Even bad guys need to sell and bank,) in no way effects your gameplay experience.
    You are wrong, many of us have been griefed, perhaps not by you, but we have been griefed...

    I have played a game where leaving town to do anything was a death sentence because PKers were camping the gates, and walking was the only way to go to another town... I have played games where people would train the zone to the gate so anyone who stepped in was almost instantly dead... I have returned to turn in a quest only to find every NPC in the area dead and camped by Alliance toons who would kill them as soon as they spawned... We know what griefers are.

    That some of us look at griefing differently then you is just a level of permissiveness, you are more forgiving of bad behavior then others... but bad behavior is bad behavior, some level of it is acceptable, some is not, we add our 2 cents in hopes that we can influence the level of bad behavior acceptability, just like you.

    Situations like in WoW couldn't happen in ESO, there might even the chance bounty is removed on death from another player to eliminate camping. If you have no bounty you can't be attacked. Maybe you can only be attacked by players if they catch you in the town that hates you. NPC's of importance will probably be phased if killable at all.
  • isengrimb16_ESO
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    indytims_ESO wrote: »
    Seriously Zeni - there are features in a single-player game that should -never- make it to an MMO.

    Allowing quest/merchant/bank NPCs to be ganked is going to cost you a crapload of subs. So I predict this won't happen.

    Allowing players to be ganked in non-Cyrodil areas is going to cost you a crapload of subs. So I predict this won't happen, either.

    I am going to go out on a limb and say that they will either add certain killable NPCs, or they'll flag a lot of the currently-exisiting ones as killable. These NPCs will be 'non-essential', or they will be 'phased', much like quest NPCs often are in the game already.

    Yes, there -are- ways for Zeni to make most people happy on this front. I just hope they have the -wisdom- to do it right.

    What people are saying, it does sound like - if these folks are right - it'll be hard to get mixed up accidentally in the justice system unless you run around town spamming AoE's like a madman. So I can be fine with that; if I can still legally loot barrels and crates while someone can "steal" from the same ones by Sneaking, that would be awesome.

    As for NPCs, I would imagine they wouldn't make that mistake of making merchants, etc, killable. What they should do is add special "killable" NPCs (as someone just stated above), but with personalities that might goad people into wanting to pick a fight with them - with labels like "Rude Townie", "Aggressive Drunk Townie", "Rabid Preacher Townie" "The Nutbar Who Follows You And Tells You The Same Stories Everywhere You Go Townie", stuff like that. :)

    Maybe a couple labeled "Your Ex" (both male and female) .... ;)
    Edited by isengrimb16_ESO on July 20, 2014 9:04PM
  • indytims_ESO
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    moxiesauce wrote: »

    They should make everything killable, Make important NPC's phased. Add's to immersion keeps everyone happy.

    Yup. There's a way to do it -right-, I just hope Zeni has the wisdom to do it -right-.

    But the moment you allow players to gank important NPCs and screw with everyone else's game, that's going to be a deal-breaker for a -lot- of people. I hope they sincerely understand this.
  • indytims_ESO
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    Dekkameron wrote: »
    Even in WoW for a long time quest givers were attackable by enemy factions. So it's not a novel idea.

    Novel, no.

    Stupid, yes.
  • Hamfast
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    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    Hamfast wrote: »
    You are wrong, many of us have been griefed, perhaps not by you, but we have been griefed...

    I have played a game where leaving town to do anything was a death sentence because PKers were camping the gates, and walking was the only way to go to another town... I have played games where people would train the zone to the gate so anyone who stepped in was almost instantly dead... I have returned to turn in a quest only to find every NPC in the area dead and camped by Alliance toons who would kill them as soon as they spawned... We know what griefers are.

    That some of us look at griefing differently then you is just a level of permissiveness, you are more forgiving of bad behavior then others... but bad behavior is bad behavior, some level of it is acceptable, some is not, we add our 2 cents in hopes that we can influence the level of bad behavior acceptability, just like you.

    None of the situations listed are going to happen.
    How do you know? do you already know how these things will be implemented? Do you already know the future?

    The stuff you listed isn't bad behavior, it has nothing to do with my permissiveness. It would be working as intended.
    This is the problem, it was working as intended, it was bad behavior and it was acceptable within the game, accepting it as not bad behavior is your permissiveness

    If I decide that I should be the only one to be able to kill -anything- in the game, is it griefing if other people are also able to do so? Obviously not, you don't get to redefine griefing and throw it around like everyone who inconviences you ever is one. You are diminshing a word that should be used for serious situations.
    Griefing has nothing to do with you being able to something that others can't, it has to do with anyone consciously doing something aimed at making another players game experience less enjoyable, the worse the griefing, the worse the experiance
    Griefer
    A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.
    A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals
    Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...
  • Hamfast
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    moxiesauce wrote: »
    Hamfast wrote: »
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    yea emptying out the bank and walllet is absurd. This is not bad behavior by the player that needs to be punished, it should be fun.

    Seriously, stop using the term griefer. You have obviously never been griefed. As I said in another post, if there was world pvp and I camped you at wayshrine and killed you every time you respawned that would be griefing. By your estimation, people having lore breaking names would be griefers because they are ruining your immersion.

    Someone killing non-mandatory npcs (and make no mistake, they are not going to let you kill bankers and merchants etc, that would make everyone irritated. Even bad guys need to sell and bank,) in no way effects your gameplay experience.
    You are wrong, many of us have been griefed, perhaps not by you, but we have been griefed...

    I have played a game where leaving town to do anything was a death sentence because PKers were camping the gates, and walking was the only way to go to another town... I have played games where people would train the zone to the gate so anyone who stepped in was almost instantly dead... I have returned to turn in a quest only to find every NPC in the area dead and camped by Alliance toons who would kill them as soon as they spawned... We know what griefers are.

    That some of us look at griefing differently then you is just a level of permissiveness, you are more forgiving of bad behavior then others... but bad behavior is bad behavior, some level of it is acceptable, some is not, we add our 2 cents in hopes that we can influence the level of bad behavior acceptability, just like you.

    Situations like in WoW couldn't happen in ESO, there might even the chance bounty is removed on death from another player to eliminate camping. If you have no bounty you can't be attacked. Maybe you can only be attacked by players if they catch you in the town that hates you. NPC's of importance will probably be phased if killable at all.

    First, I hope you are right, but neither of us know for sure.

    Second, Why focus on Wow?

    Third, My point was to Smeeprocketnub19 who thinks we have never been griefed, it has nothing to do with those other games beyond being Griefed... his response to me shows that he has a different definition of "Griefer".
    Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    Hamfast wrote: »
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    Hamfast wrote: »
    You are wrong, many of us have been griefed, perhaps not by you, but we have been griefed...

    I have played a game where leaving town to do anything was a death sentence because PKers were camping the gates, and walking was the only way to go to another town... I have played games where people would train the zone to the gate so anyone who stepped in was almost instantly dead... I have returned to turn in a quest only to find every NPC in the area dead and camped by Alliance toons who would kill them as soon as they spawned... We know what griefers are.

    That some of us look at griefing differently then you is just a level of permissiveness, you are more forgiving of bad behavior then others... but bad behavior is bad behavior, some level of it is acceptable, some is not, we add our 2 cents in hopes that we can influence the level of bad behavior acceptability, just like you.

    None of the situations listed are going to happen.
    How do you know? do you already know how these things will be implemented? Do you already know the future?

    The stuff you listed isn't bad behavior, it has nothing to do with my permissiveness. It would be working as intended.
    This is the problem, it was working as intended, it was bad behavior and it was acceptable within the game, accepting it as not bad behavior is your permissiveness

    If I decide that I should be the only one to be able to kill -anything- in the game, is it griefing if other people are also able to do so? Obviously not, you don't get to redefine griefing and throw it around like everyone who inconviences you ever is one. You are diminshing a word that should be used for serious situations.
    Griefing has nothing to do with you being able to something that others can't, it has to do with anyone consciously doing something aimed at making another players game experience less enjoyable, the worse the griefing, the worse the experiance
    Griefer
    A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.
    A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals

    Your assumption is that other people would be killing NPCs with the sole desire to make you unhappy. I am not entirely sure how this could make you unhappy in the first place. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they are doing it to grief you, and when trivial things will "grief" you it stops being griefing and just you expecting everybody to do what you want them to.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • Phinix1
    Phinix1
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    isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »
    indytims_ESO wrote: »
    Seriously Zeni - there are features in a single-player game that should -never- make it to an MMO.

    Allowing quest/merchant/bank NPCs to be ganked is going to cost you a crapload of subs. So I predict this won't happen.

    Allowing players to be ganked in non-Cyrodil areas is going to cost you a crapload of subs. So I predict this won't happen, either.

    I am going to go out on a limb and say that they will either add certain killable NPCs, or they'll flag a lot of the currently-exisiting ones as killable. These NPCs will be 'non-essential', or they will be 'phased', much like quest NPCs often are in the game already.

    Yes, there -are- ways for Zeni to make most people happy on this front. I just hope they have the -wisdom- to do it right.

    What people are saying, it does sound like - if these folks are right - it'll be hard to get mixed up accidentally in the justice system unless you run around town spamming AoE's like a madman. So I can be fine with that; if I can still legally loot barrels and crates while someone can "steal" from the same ones by Sneaking, that would be awesome.

    As for NPCs, I would imagine they wouldn't make that mistake of making merchants, etc, killable. What they should do is add special "killable" NPCs (as someone just stated above), but with personalities that might goad people into wanting to pick a fight with them - with labels like "Rude Townie", "Aggressive Drunk Townie", "Rabid Preacher Townie" "The Nutbar Who Follows You And Tells You The Same Stories Everywhere You Go Townie", stuff like that. :)

    Maybe a couple labeled "Your Ex" (both male and female) .... ;)

    I like the way you think! I really hope they do this, it would make it fun and engaging.
  • Haewk
    Haewk
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    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    Hamfast wrote: »
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »
    Hamfast wrote: »
    You are wrong, many of us have been griefed, perhaps not by you, but we have been griefed...

    I have played a game where leaving town to do anything was a death sentence because PKers were camping the gates, and walking was the only way to go to another town... I have played games where people would train the zone to the gate so anyone who stepped in was almost instantly dead... I have returned to turn in a quest only to find every NPC in the area dead and camped by Alliance toons who would kill them as soon as they spawned... We know what griefers are.

    That some of us look at griefing differently then you is just a level of permissiveness, you are more forgiving of bad behavior then others... but bad behavior is bad behavior, some level of it is acceptable, some is not, we add our 2 cents in hopes that we can influence the level of bad behavior acceptability, just like you.

    None of the situations listed are going to happen.
    How do you know? do you already know how these things will be implemented? Do you already know the future?

    The stuff you listed isn't bad behavior, it has nothing to do with my permissiveness. It would be working as intended.
    This is the problem, it was working as intended, it was bad behavior and it was acceptable within the game, accepting it as not bad behavior is your permissiveness

    If I decide that I should be the only one to be able to kill -anything- in the game, is it griefing if other people are also able to do so? Obviously not, you don't get to redefine griefing and throw it around like everyone who inconviences you ever is one. You are diminshing a word that should be used for serious situations.
    Griefing has nothing to do with you being able to something that others can't, it has to do with anyone consciously doing something aimed at making another players game experience less enjoyable, the worse the griefing, the worse the experiance
    Griefer
    A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.
    A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals

    Your assumption is that other people would be killing NPCs with the sole desire to make you unhappy. I am not entirely sure how this could make you unhappy in the first place. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they are doing it to grief you, and when trivial things will "grief" you it stops being griefing and just you expecting everybody to do what you want them to.

    Of course people will kill NPCs with the sole desire to make other people unhappy, why wouldn't they? It has happened in every other MMO I played. If the game mechanics allow griefing then players will use those mechanics to grief other players and this is the concern being raised. "Carebears" don't want to be griefed. They don't like their play interrupted by other people who have nothing better to do than try to mess with you and who create this toxic environment that is not pleasant for most people.
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