Small guild discrimination

Audigy · July 2014

Gix wrote: »

Honestly, it's hard to feel any sympathy.

You refuse to be social, so why are you annoyed that you're locked out of social features? Discrimination? Hardly. You're just using the tools outside their intended purpose.

Why does the OP refuse to be social?

They are a family, to make a family you must be social its not something you can order online at Amazon and baby's are not brought by the Pelican either ...

He or she might not enjoy being in a large guild with strangers, but to call her unsocial is silly and misplaced.

I am honestly not sure why some people in this thread insult the OP and don't even understand her / his reasoning.

There are people who make a party alone, look at the EU parliament - others create a religion, start a company etc. so why cant someone make a guild solo or with a small group? Maybe some day it will become bigger, to grow is natural but to expect quantity upon creation is just a faulty system.

I don't think anyone would lose his special snowflake item if the OP could make a tabard with a tiny baby or tree on it.

EQBallzz · July 2014

Because it's an exploit of the intended guild system. If solo players can have all the benefits of a guild what is the purpose of a having guild perks at all? They wouldn't be called guild perks if they were for solo players. Player != guild. The same goes for the guild store. You need 50 players in a guild to gain access to that but I guess you think solo players should get that, too?

You may disagree with the system in place but it's a system designed with guilds in mind not solo players. 3 solo players is not a guild by any stretch of the imagination. 10 players is barely a guild. Even a guild in WoW where there is 10 man raid content would be hard pressed to function with only 10 players. 10 player restriction is barely a restriction at all.

Zorrashi · July 2014

3 people is hardly a guild. Barely even a group. Honestly, I'm all for freedom in your decisions, but some decisions simply leave you with certain 'disadvantages' in the game. You being a guild of 3 is one of them.

Your situation is not so much discrimination as much as it is non-utilization on your part.
Your 3 person guild can barely cause even a dent in PvP, and is not likely you can attain funds/goods to sell even a marginal amount of goods to be considered as an economic force of any amount.

Guilds, the majority of the time, are to recruit people in order to participate and attempt to conquer certain game events/aspects. Be it trading or PvE or PvP. Even social guilds recruit more people than you in order to socialize and talk more purely for the community aspect.

Your pseudo-guild simply...does not really have any other detectible goal other than to keep to yourselves. Which is fine, but there is no need to reward your efforts that can be so easily attained on your own.

Guild heraldry is supposed to offer customization in order to stimulate the concept of 'unity' within a guild. Why should a tabard design only be reserved for 3 people who already have the benefit of being tight-knit. I'm sure you can live without a little customization.
Guild bank is supposed to stimulate trade between players. I'm sure you can manage your basic trading needs amongst yourselves.

It is unfortunate, but the your guild hardly qualifies for any perk other than the lack of drama on guild chat.

aeroch · July 2014

Lollin at everyone whining about small groups of players wanting access to tabards and banks. Guilds comprised of less than 10 players having access to those mechanics doesn't affect you at all. There are ways to prevent players from creating guilds for the sole purpose of free bank slots, like making them pay to unlock the guild bank or pay extra to purchase a tabard. Make it expensive. I'll gladly pay.

Beating a dead horse here but go find something constructive to do instead of projecting some elitist attitude because your guild has more than 10 players. Christ.

And frankly, the nerds around here trying to defend the sanctity of guildship are the reason some of us don't want to play with you and would prefer playing in a smaller environment.

Ty for reading

ahvann · July 2014

I agree with aeroch 100%.

I myself am in a small guild consisting of 5 players which comprise of me, 3 friends/family, and a dude we met and liked in-game.

We trade each other items through the mail and OMG does that suck! But we have to stoop to such a crappy way of sharing items because apparently we of the smaller guilds are second class citizens despite paying the same subscription fee each month.

What really gets to me is that YOU PEOPLE *points directly at your face* you people condone this treatment of your fellow players just because we believe in quality over quantity. Not only that, you condescend and raise your noses at us as if your giant facebook-like list of "friends/guildies" instantly means you deserve these things and we don't.

I see nothing wrong with a compromise of either paying for guild bank privileges or even a scaling down of the storage space much like a small company would naturally have a smaller warehouse when compared to a big company, but we don't even get that and that is what i perceive as the other source of -my- small guild woes.

-Vann

EQBallzz · July 2014

"YOU PEOPLE"?? What do you mean "YOU PEOPLE"??

It's funny when you say people are "whining" about small groups and yet what is the OP doing? It's nothing more than a huge whine about how unfair everything is..going so far as to claim discrimination? Nice try but the only whiners here are those who think they are entitled to everything and can't do the bare minimum of guild requirements. 3 people can't even do a regular dungeon without the group finder. Get real.

I do agree that there are other ways to restrict the guild like putting a gold cost on the different elements so that the guild has to work together to pay for those things or tie them to achievements geared towards guild activities (kill X amount of Y or whatever) but I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that if that was the system in place the same people would be whining about that being too hard for small guilds to achieve! whaaaaa! :'(

ahvann · July 2014

EQBallzz wrote: »

"YOU PEOPLE"?? What do you mean "YOU PEOPLE"??

It's funny when you say people are "whining" about small groups and yet what is the OP doing? It's nothing more than a huge whine about how unfair everything is..going so far as to claim discrimination? Nice try but the only whiners here are those who think they are entitled to everything and can't do the bare minimum of guild requirements. 3 people can't even do a regular dungeon without the group finder. Get real.

I do agree that there are other ways to restrict the guild like putting a gold cost on the different elements so that the guild has to work together to pay for those things or tie them to achievements geared towards guild activities (kill X amount of Y or whatever) but I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that if that was the system in place the same people would be whining about that being too hard for small guilds to achieve! whaaaaa! :'(

Not sure if post is aimed at me, but your last sentence proves my point about the condescension. If that happens and people do whine about it, then we'll talk about it; otherwise, you are just making up a hypothetical situation and imagining the outcome to support your own bias.

I can do that too: Should that happen, then I would be happy because at least there is a way for me to -play the way I want with MY friends and family-. They did something similar with the perks system in WoW and my small guild of 5 active members managed to get pretty far into the perks and had a blast unlocking the stuff.

I myself have looked up the definition of guild and all I came away with is that a guild is an association of at least 2 people who share a common interest or goal. If you want to get technical, mull over that.

As hard as it is to believe, I don't believe in spamming chat to seek people to join my guild nor do I like posting on forums to recruit. I prefer a more "natural" course of actually meeting people online (the way we got our 5th member) and going from there. If anything, I think my way is more "social" than the 2 other ways I have mentioned.

It's fine if you disagree; that's just the nature of opinions, but you don't need to mock/ridicule/harass/etc. your fellow community members. All that does is drive people away.

-Vann

Nhines · July 2014

Are there actual guilds of value in this game? I guess I haven't really dealt with a ton of them but the majority I have just appear to be large groups of randoms. They socialize about as much as they would if they were in the same zone together, and are basically just there for the guild perks, dropped at the first sign of inactivity. I personally don't care about the bank space/store/whatever but I wouldn't have a problem with smaller guilds getting some of it. Portion it based on accounts/activity/whatever, make it another money sink, I'm sure there's a logical way of doing it. However, it seems the guilds in this game are really just a forced grouping mechanic that's poorly planned, executed, and primarily there to create micro-economies .

I haven't played a ton of mmo's, but the one I played for the longest was DDO. Generally if you were in a guild in that game you had it as part of your identity, there was very little multi-guilding, and you weren't just there for the availability of random crafting materials. You actually knew, at least to some extent, most if not all the people that were in your guild. There were perks, but it wasn't about how many people you had, but how much you played and in some cases how much your grouped together.

Just personal opinion, and everyone may disagree, but I think the guild system in this game is pretty craptacular.

Iorail · July 2014

First off, I'll have to say that this thread had me on tears with the amount of self entitlement and misinformation, not to mention all the people that when off topic due to lack of reading.

With that out of the way, and directly to the OP, you need to first learn to read and second to research before you come to the forums screaming bloody murder and I'll explain why, below is the current patch notes for tabards:

This feature unlocks once a guild has reached 10 members.
Guild leaders can design a heraldry that will appear on equippable tabards. Customization of your heraldry costs a fee in gold that is automatically deducted from your guild’s bank. To modify the guild’s heraldry, guild leaders can click the heraldry tab on the Guild window (displayed before the history tab).
There are over 250 colors, 63 backgrounds, and 136 crests available for creating a heraldry.
Once a heraldry has been designed, any guild member can purchase a tabard by visiting the Guild’s Store and searching for items of type ‘Guild Items’.
If a guild leader changes the tabard, all tabards update in real-time.

If you take the time to actually read everything, you would have notice that besides needing 10 people to CREATE the tabard, you also need 50 people and a guild store to have the tabard available to the guild members. You can't just create and give, once create it will appear on the guild store only......

Besides, how frisk king hard is it to create a second guild, have your family join said guild and also invite 47 people to it and create the tabard you like? You have options to shut down chat/bank/store to everyone but your family. Research the game features before screaming bloody murder.

Mr.Turtlesworth · July 2014

Cyanhide wrote: »

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:

I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild.

That's not a guild, that's a family. Honestly a guild of 3 members? Next thing you know everyone starts a "guild" just for the extra bank space.

one of my guilds has 200 members and I consider them a family. WHAT YOU GOT AGAINST FAMILIES?

Ilmm · July 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ilmm wrote: »

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:

I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild and DO NOT plan on forming a larger guild as we enjoy playing together without all the spam/drama of other players. We shouldn't be forced to join a large guild to get a bank. It is bad enough that we can't have a guild bank without inviting 7 other strangers into our guild, but to be denied guild tabards and other benefits that are coming with these changes is just a waste of time and money for all of us. I had hoped that eso would be different than all the other mmos who force players to join large guilds to receive extra benefit. Someone stated that we all pay the same sub and should have access to the same benefits as large guilds. I completely agree. Small guild discrimination is alive and thriving in ESO. I have been playing the Elder Scrolls series since 2003 (ES III: Morrowind)and somehow with this series roots I thought they would embrace all players, not just the big guilds. Neglecting and discriminating against small guilds and single players is inexcusable in my opinion. Shame on you, TESO, shame.

I've thought this since the beginning. I've hoped they would have changed things, but it doesn't seem that way. I just don't think this game is for small guilds, just large faceless guilds that need the numbers, not the people.

Yeah, those huge, faceless guilds of 10 people sure are ruining the game.

When did I say they are RUINING the game? Read, man, it helps. The reason most get into guilds, is because of the lack of auction houses. Not because of help, camaraderie, etc. Trade guilds need numbers, not people.

ahvann · July 2014

Iorail wrote: »

First off, I'll have to say that this thread had me on tears with the amount of self entitlement and misinformation, not to mention all the people that when off topic due to lack of reading.

With that out of the way, and directly to the OP, you need to first learn to read and second to research before you come to the forums screaming bloody murder and I'll explain why, below is the current patch notes for tabards:

This feature unlocks once a guild has reached 10 members.
Guild leaders can design a heraldry that will appear on equippable tabards. Customization of your heraldry costs a fee in gold that is automatically deducted from your guild’s bank. To modify the guild’s heraldry, guild leaders can click the heraldry tab on the Guild window (displayed before the history tab).
There are over 250 colors, 63 backgrounds, and 136 crests available for creating a heraldry.
Once a heraldry has been designed, any guild member can purchase a tabard by visiting the Guild’s Store and searching for items of type ‘Guild Items’.
If a guild leader changes the tabard, all tabards update in real-time.

If you take the time to actually read everything, you would have notice that besides needing 10 people to CREATE the tabard, you also need 50 people and a guild store to have the tabard available to the guild members. You can't just create and give, once create it will appear on the guild store only......

Besides, how frisk king hard is it to create a second guild, have your family join said guild and also invite 47 people to it and create the tabard you like? You have options to shut down chat/bank/store to everyone but your family. Research the game features before screaming bloody murder.

*sigh* lorail... I'm pretty sure the OP knows about those requirements and that they are the source of his angst. (Not to mention the flaming he's getting from your type of posts.) I'm not sure if you're trolling, but I believe it is you who needs to read and comprehend what the OP is saying.

While I do not agree with his shame on you attitude, I do agree to some extent on the treatment of small guilds. To me, these restrictions seem to be more of a way for the developers to push and make work their current in-game economy system rather than getting people to play together.

Your "solution" at the end there is about as helpful as a can of crap, to be frank. What the heck kind of guild is that?! And what kind of idiots do you take the people in this game for if you believe that 47 people will just stay in your guild as you blatantly exploit them like that?!

-Vann

Iorail · July 2014

ahvann wrote: »

Iorail wrote: »

First off, I'll have to say that this thread had me on tears with the amount of self entitlement and misinformation, not to mention all the people that when off topic due to lack of reading.

With that out of the way, and directly to the OP, you need to first learn to read and second to research before you come to the forums screaming bloody murder and I'll explain why, below is the current patch notes for tabards:

This feature unlocks once a guild has reached 10 members.
Guild leaders can design a heraldry that will appear on equippable tabards. Customization of your heraldry costs a fee in gold that is automatically deducted from your guild’s bank. To modify the guild’s heraldry, guild leaders can click the heraldry tab on the Guild window (displayed before the history tab).
There are over 250 colors, 63 backgrounds, and 136 crests available for creating a heraldry.
Once a heraldry has been designed, any guild member can purchase a tabard by visiting the Guild’s Store and searching for items of type ‘Guild Items’.
If a guild leader changes the tabard, all tabards update in real-time.

If you take the time to actually read everything, you would have notice that besides needing 10 people to CREATE the tabard, you also need 50 people and a guild store to have the tabard available to the guild members. You can't just create and give, once create it will appear on the guild store only......

Besides, how frisk king hard is it to create a second guild, have your family join said guild and also invite 47 people to it and create the tabard you like? You have options to shut down chat/bank/store to everyone but your family. Research the game features before screaming bloody murder.

*sigh* lorail... I'm pretty sure the OP knows about those requirements and that they are the source of his angst. (Not to mention the flaming he's getting from your type of posts.) I'm not sure if you're trolling, but I believe it is you who needs to read and comprehend what the OP is saying.

While I do not agree with his shame on you attitude, I do agree to some extent on the treatment of small guilds. To me, these restrictions seem to be more of a way for the developers to push and make work their current in-game economy system rather than getting people to play together.

Your "solution" at the end there is about as helpful as a can of crap, to be frank. What the heck kind of guild is that?! And what kind of idiots do you take the people in this game for if you believe that 47 people will just stay in your guild as you blatantly exploit them like that?!

-Vann

No my friend, is you that need to re-read the OP, clear as day. She doesn't want to invite 7 more to be able to make, not once she realizes she actually need 47 more to actually have access to the tabard. Besides, there are requirements set by the developers, not the players, and if the players don't want to meet those requirements, then they get no rights for the rewards, simple as that.

I simply can't be bother anymore about this, the OP is calling discrimination out the top of her lungs and yet is her that is discriminating against everyone else by closing her to only 3, see what I did there?

SFBryan18 · July 2014

I personally want the two man bank space so me and my cousin can easily swap items and not have to exploit useless pack mule alts. I mean, were not going to recruit 8 random people just for the numbers. The shared bank should be available to everyone for easier trading with friends and to remove the need of alt character slots. I refuse to create pointless alts because all my characters are more than just pack mules.

Maverick827 · July 2014

Nhines wrote: »

Are there actual guilds of value in this game? I guess I haven't really dealt with a ton of them but the majority I have just appear to be large groups of randoms.

That's the worst part about it. Most guild with 10+ members and 50+ members are just trade guilds thrown together because there's no auction house.

The real guilds, the ones with friends and family together, often don't have 10 people.

patrick_g_asselinb16_ESO · July 2014

I honestly think there should be scaling guild rewards, instead or hard "checkpoints" in members. I.E. having a 2-10-member guild nets you a 20-slot guild bank. having10-50 gets you 40 and 400-500 gets you 100 or things like that. as for the extra benefits. they should be purchasable by having members pitch in. not like there is a serious advantage to the tabards anyway. I personally think they look ridiculous.

SFBryan18 · July 2014

Hey OP, how about we join each others guilds and give each other recruit access just for the bank space. Recruits can't use the bank. Anyone else in? North American server, Daggerfall Covenant.

I've got two accounts, my cousin and myself, who can join up to 4 guilds in exchange for recruits in ours. Must be at least two players per exchange.

This is what it has come down to.

ahvann · July 2014

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

It is bad enough that we can't have a guild bank without inviting 7 other strangers into our guild, but to be denied guild tabards and other benefits that are coming with these changes is just a waste of time and money for all of us.

When the OP mentions the number 7, he is referring to the number needed for a guild bank. When he goes on about "tabards and other benefits", we can only infer as to what number of members he thinks is required, but that is neither here nor there- it doesn't matter. If anything, the higher the number, the more *siiiiigh* this becomes.

I've played a few MMO's in my time and the only thing I can take away from them concerning guilds is the bigger they are, the more the meehh can develop.

Here in ESO, I have joined a couple of guilds in launch week and from taking a month long break, I've been kicked out of all my guilds except my guild. Who can take pride in joining a guild and displaying their heraldry when you can just as easily get kicked in a heartbeat? Joining a guild is a major crapshoot; you never know when you get into a good guild that fits you well. I want to spend my time in-game enjoying the content, not sifting through the dung heap that is guilds. From those reasons alone, I have much more pride and want to show my pride for my tight knit (albeit, small) group rather than sporting the colors/heraldry of a guild in which I am just a minor cog.

I'm not whining about having bad luck in guilds nor being kicked, but rather, I am demonstrating with personal experience as to why some of us lament the fact that we can't show our guild pride for the guild that we most want to represent. We want to show the world it is you (Tamriel) against me and my guild! Bring. It. On. (Let us small guilds fly our colors too

)

-Vann

SFBryan18 · July 2014

North American Cross Faction Member Exchange For Bank Slots.

Ojustaboo · July 2014

Dusty5 wrote: »

Cyanhide wrote: »

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:

I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild.

That's not a guild, that's a family. Honestly a guild of 3 members? Next thing you know everyone starts a "guild" just for the extra bank space.

SO what who are you to decide how a family plays their money is just as good as yours.

Just because we all pay the same sub, that shouldn't mean we all get to access every in game thing no matter what. And real life is exactly the same.

We pay the same sub and are bound by the exact same set of rules, it's up to us if we want to take advantage of them or not.

We can choose to play exactly as we like, but if we choose to never group up, we shouldn't complain that we find group content impossible or that it should be made solo friendly.

The guild setup is designed to encourage us to be sociable. I hate huge guilds. My guild doesn't invite anyone, you apply via it's website and if you get accepted, you join on a trial basis. And this is a very common process.

My guild was formed in a previous mmo, we have about 55 members playing ESO, contrary to what someone said earlier, yes we do get to know all members. Sure some talk a lot more than others and some we get to build really good friendships with.

I have never seen any spam/drama in my guild, the guild leader or officers would soon get rid of any player that acted like that.

55 people is not a huge group to get to know quite well

I agree with others, 3 people is not really a guild, we should be thankful that in this game 3 people can get some of the guild benifits such as guild chat. 55 is a small guild.

It's not discrimination, we are all treated the same and all have the same opportunities but it's our choice whether or not we choose to take advantage of them.

It's a bit like saying you pay the same as me, but you only play for 1 hr a week, hence it's descrimination as you can't enter end level content or unlock the same skills as me.

Ojustaboo · July 2014

We also have to think of Zenimax future plans.

For example if and when housing arrives. Other mmos I've played have had guild houses in addition to player houses.

Guild houses are not designed to be used by a group of three and if they could be, many many players would join 3 guilds with two friends/family so that they can each have their own personal guild house.

You simply cannot expect to get the same guild benefits with a tiny amount of members.

Schallen · July 2014

kieso wrote: »

Yeah sorry going to have to agree with everyone else; 3 people does not a guild make no matter how much you want to believe otherwise.

Lets bring up a point here. You can make a guild on a guild page. Add three people.

It still says its a guild It still qualifies as a guild. It is still a guild. Gtfh.

Ojustaboo · July 2014

aeroch wrote: »

Lollin at everyone whining about small groups of players wanting access to tabards and banks. Guilds comprised of less than 10 players having access to those mechanics doesn't affect you at all. There are ways to prevent players from creating guilds for the sole purpose of free bank slots, like making them pay to unlock the guild bank or pay extra to purchase a tabard. Make it expensive. I'll gladly pay.

Beating a dead horse here but go find something constructive to do instead of projecting some elitist attitude because your guild has more than 10 players. Christ.

And frankly, the nerds around here trying to defend the sanctity of guildship are the reason some of us don't want to play with you and would prefer playing in a smaller environment.

Ty for reading

I honestly think people posting posts like yours whether they are calling someone nerds, elitists, or calling someone a noob or telling them to l2p should be banned from the forum as it's your sort of post that turn discussions into a vile read

Your post is anything but constructive.

I am getting sick of people being called noob, l2p, nerd, elitists or whatever just because they hold a different viewpoint and anyone that has to resort to doing that obviously has both no social interaction skills and nothing constructive to add to the debate.

Over the past week I've been very active here, thread after thread has gone down the pan because of people on either side of a debate using this tactic.

Its not clever, I would say it makes you look like your 15, but I know many 15 yr olds that are far more mature so it wouldn't be fair to them.

Alephen · July 2014

i will say the same thing here i said there. find another small guild, or 2 more to get you to 10. everyone turns off guild chat for the other guilds, set permissions for only your family member and you get the bank and can still have 2 or 3 other guild spots. you dont have any of their drama, nor they yours.

Evandus · July 2014

The game I played previous to this allowed one person to form a guild. Technically, you could have a guild with just yourself in it. Guild perks and amenities were tied to guild level. The limiting factor being generation of renown by running the content available. I liked this system because of the decay component. Mathematically and without exploitation of mechanics, one person alone could only maintain a guild at mid level at best. So to get the best pre quest/raid buffs, you needed an active membership and high guild level.

This game outright cuts off the ability of small guilds (less than 10 members) to have any access to amenities at all. This doesn't seem like the right approach to me. And I agree with the OP insomuch as they should have access to tabards if they choose to pay for them.

Every large guild I've encountered in game has left me picturing a faceless, nameless, entity with open doors to any and everyone. I've had 3 members of the same guild in party with me running content unaware they were guildmates. And I believe we've all seen the constant please whisper me and join my guild antics in zone chat. That was funny stuff, watching them become aware of each other during the last bossfight.

There are definitely guilds that have actually worked pretty hard to build a community within them. However this is by far the exception and not what is commonly done. Most often people spam zone chat or throw invites at anyone they can find to get those 10+ members to open up additional bank space. And that's the beginning and end of social interaction for them. Unless of course someone is trying to sell something in guild chat. They don't organize and run together, etc...

I don't see the harm in allowing a 2 or more person guild to have access to tabards. And I think it's silly to expect a family of 3 to join xyz random guild to get them. In that scenario, they wouldn't even have the option to create them. Only wear what the guild leader has decided what the tabard will be. And that's not much of an option in relation to the OP's concerns.

nerevarine1138 · July 2014

Ilmm wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ilmm wrote: »

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:

I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild and DO NOT plan on forming a larger guild as we enjoy playing together without all the spam/drama of other players. We shouldn't be forced to join a large guild to get a bank. It is bad enough that we can't have a guild bank without inviting 7 other strangers into our guild, but to be denied guild tabards and other benefits that are coming with these changes is just a waste of time and money for all of us. I had hoped that eso would be different than all the other mmos who force players to join large guilds to receive extra benefit. Someone stated that we all pay the same sub and should have access to the same benefits as large guilds. I completely agree. Small guild discrimination is alive and thriving in ESO. I have been playing the Elder Scrolls series since 2003 (ES III: Morrowind)and somehow with this series roots I thought they would embrace all players, not just the big guilds. Neglecting and discriminating against small guilds and single players is inexcusable in my opinion. Shame on you, TESO, shame.

I've thought this since the beginning. I've hoped they would have changed things, but it doesn't seem that way. I just don't think this game is for small guilds, just large faceless guilds that need the numbers, not the people.

Yeah, those huge, faceless guilds of 10 people sure are ruining the game.

When did I say they are RUINING the game? Read, man, it helps. The reason most get into guilds, is because of the lack of auction houses. Not because of help, camaraderie, etc. Trade guilds need numbers, not people.

You know that trade guilds aren't the only guilds out there, right?

I'm currently in three trading guilds, and yes, the level of socialization is low. That's because socializing is for my vampire guild and my actual PvE guild. Those guilds regularly do content, communicate with each other, and each one has well over 100 members.

And I have a very easy solution for the OP's problem: stop allowing guilds to be smaller than 10 people. Require a "charter" system. That way, no one can complain that "small guilds" are getting treated poorly, because the game will officially declare that 3 people is not a guild.

Goibot · July 2014

I agree with OP. When ESO created the guild system they really took the easy way out (seems like I am saying that a lot lately) by making these hard numbers 10 for bank and tabard, 50 for store.

Any guild (regardless of numbers) should be able to fly their colors. Bank slots and store slots should be scaled per member. This way small guilds would be able to participate in everything the game has to offer.

My experience in the game so far is that the big guilds are just stores with little to no social aspect to them. Most just cause a lot of emersion breaking spam.

SHADOW2KK · July 2014

Small guilds are better arguably in some ways, its a lot less complicated leading, I lead a guild of almost 500, could easily have maxed it, but we want our guild to be as friendly as possible, TS3 server, Trials, PVE/PVP events ect, the bigger you grow, the more difficult it becomes to administrate properly, even if you set deserving people high power roles, and a workable infrastructure, it does take over your time, so good on you matey with your 2/3 close friends, that is how it starts, so control it:}

Beedles · July 2014

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:

I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild and DO NOT plan on forming a larger guild as we enjoy playing together without all the spam/drama of other players. We shouldn't be forced to join a large guild to get a bank. It is bad enough that we can't have a guild bank without inviting 7 other strangers into our guild, but to be denied guild tabards and other benefits that are coming with these changes is just a waste of time and money for all of us. I had hoped that eso would be different than all the other mmos who force players to join large guilds to receive extra benefit. Someone stated that we all pay the same sub and should have access to the same benefits as large guilds. I completely agree. Small guild discrimination is alive and thriving in ESO. I have been playing the Elder Scrolls series since 2003 (ES III: Morrowind)and somehow with this series roots I thought they would embrace all players, not just the big guilds. Neglecting and discriminating against small guilds and single players is inexcusable in my opinion. Shame on you, TESO, shame.

I am going to assume you are trolling. why have guilds at all if your going to give away banks spots and tabards? Your small guild as you call it is not a guild its a party that plays together. Learn to play with others you might like what you encounter. Shame on you for thinking your better then everyone else, its inexcusable that you accuse others of drama/spam when you bring your unwarranted drama here. Your post is full of negative statements showing us what type of person you are. You don't want a solution, you want this handed to you because you feel entitled. which is probably why you don't fit into any guild.

ahvann · July 2014

I'm tired of arguing over this point. What I wanted to accomplish here was point out that these limits which FEELS like arbitrary numbers/requirements detracts from certain players' enjoyment of the game.

Should these limitations be removed, I highly doubt it would negatively affect the people on the other side of the fence. So what if Joe Schmoe and his 3 friends or family have the ability to fly THEIR colors/heraldry in the world of Tamriel? Does that hurt you who are against this idea in any way other than to potentially take up one of their 5 guild slots? So what if they are in a small guild and take pride in that? That doesn't stop them from joining your oohhh sooo cooolll so friendly sooo fuuun highly social guild and help make YOU enjoy your game more with their remaining guild slots.

I am more and more convinced you are either angry or jealous that they'd rather have their close knit group and represent that rather than your big bad ass guild. Let me throw in an anecdote from my childhood to illustrate my point:

When I was younger, I was one of the "cool" kids, hanging out with the cool kids' group. You know what makes me ashamed of myself to this day? I would look at the small groups of kids who we deem losers and whatnot in their small groups and cliques chatting and enjoying themselves in disdain and wonder who the heck they are to think they can have any fun at all for not being one of the cool kids.

Yeah, that's right, I just implied that.

Anyways, I remember when I first played another MMO years and years ago called Ragnarok Online back in the beta phase and seeing so many people going around in their tiny 1-6 player guilds with their custom guild emblems representing themselves, thinking to myself, " Wow, that is awesome." Do you not want that? Why would you condone agreeing with the developers' decision to deny small groups that pleasure?

They marketed this game to us saying this is elder scrolls you can play with your friends. Play the way you want. I know you can't exactly get everything you want, but I am beseeching you, ZoS, all this does is take away people's enjoyment of the game while removing these limits or scaling it down for the tiny guilds have no major negatives I can think of at the moment. This is not like any other MMO that limits you to 1 guild, we can still join 4 others to experience large group content should we WANT to.

This is our money and our time we are investing into the game; I think the more everyone can enjoy the game the more likely they are to stay and recommend others to join them here. Win win.

-Vann