Small guild discrimination

mmlewis67b14_ESO

I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:

I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild and DO NOT plan on forming a larger guild as we enjoy playing together without all the spam/drama of other players. We shouldn't be forced to join a large guild to get a bank. It is bad enough that we can't have a guild bank without inviting 7 other strangers into our guild, but to be denied guild tabards and other benefits that are coming with these changes is just a waste of time and money for all of us. I had hoped that eso would be different than all the other mmos who force players to join large guilds to receive extra benefit. Someone stated that we all pay the same sub and should have access to the same benefits as large guilds. I completely agree. Small guild discrimination is alive and thriving in ESO. I have been playing the Elder Scrolls series since 2003 (ES III: Morrowind)and somehow with this series roots I thought they would embrace all players, not just the big guilds. Neglecting and discriminating against small guilds and single players is inexcusable in my opinion. Shame on you, TESO, shame.

Cyanhide

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:

I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild.

That's not a guild, that's a family. Honestly a guild of 3 members? Next thing you know everyone starts a "guild" just for the extra bank space.

mmlewis67b14_ESO

Cyanhide wrote: »

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:

I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild.

That's not a guild, that's a family. Honestly a guild of 3 members? Next thing you know everyone starts a "guild" just for the extra bank space.

This type of attitude is exactly why we don't join other big guilds. There is nothing wrong with a family enjoying itself together.

Vuron

Cyanhide wrote: »

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:

I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild.

That's not a guild, that's a family. Honestly a guild of 3 members? Next thing you know everyone starts a "guild" just for the extra bank space.

Beat me to it, but this is pretty much what I was going to post.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

@mmlewis67b14_ESO, totally agree.

@Cyanhide allowing guilds of any size to have a tabbard is entirely different from bank spaces .. we all know that crass lack of bank spaces was ZOS attempt to coerce people to trade with each other, instead many of use tolerate the pain so we don't get held to ransom by crafters.

Falmer

I guess the way I look at it is that being a member of a small tight-knit guild of friends has its own benefits. You all know each other, help each other, give things freely to each other to help out. There is a lot of joy belonging to a small guild.

As a guild gets larger, they are more detached, annoying, frustrating, even downright oppressive at times. All those "carrots" they give the larger guilds are to try to make large guilds palatable by offsetting the bad elements.

They would have to add a LOT more carrots before I would ever consider joining a large guild.

EQBallzz

Discrimination? Seriously? I think that might be a bit melodramatic. I don't think 10 people is a very high bar for a guild. The perks for a guild are for *guilds* and a group of 3 people is not a guild. You can't even run a 4 man dungeon with 3 people so why should you get guild perks?

Everyone is not entitled to everything all the time. Stick with being a small group or find a meager 7 other people to get the perks. By your logic everyone should have a guild bank and all guild perks the moment they create a character. I mean why stop at 3 people? Even solo players should get everything, too. Right? Kind of ludicrous.

Cyanhide

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

...

Afcourse there's nothing wrong with that, but it isn't a guild, that's 3 friends playing together.

jrgray93

I am in agreement on the bank but also don't want people making guilds for personal bank extensions. Perhaps the guild bank should be just limited to 5-10 slots per player if under 10.

seanolan

No, there's not anything wrong with a family enjoying itself together. But you are not a guild. You are a group. Why should you three alone get 500 free slots of storage (plus 90 if you used the guild store as storage) just because you start a tiny guild? You are a family that loves to game together...that's awesome! I wish I could convince even my partner to play with me! But you are not a guild by the common meaning of the word in MMOs. It's not prejudice against small guilds...it's preventing abuse of the system.

mmlewis67b14_ESO

Discrimination..yes. If we both walk into a diner and order a meal that costs the same amount, I get steak, you get stale bread...is that fair or discrimation?

Cyanhide

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

....

A small guild is 10 people, that's small, no discrimination here, but 3 people isn't a guild!

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

seanolan wrote: »

It's not prejudice against small guilds...it's preventing abuse of the system.

Because allowing tabbards is abusing something?

kieso

Yeah sorry going to have to agree with everyone else; 3 people does not a guild make no matter how much you want to believe otherwise.

Vuron

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

Discrimination..yes. If we both walk into a diner and order a meal that costs the same amount, I get steak, you get stale bread...is that fair or discrimation?

And if you walk in with your group of 3 and I walk in with my group of 8, who pays more if the note at the bottom of the bill says "groups of 8 or more will automatically be charged 18% gratuity"?

seanolan

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

seanolan wrote: »

It's not prejudice against small guilds...it's preventing abuse of the system.

Because allowing tabbards is abusing something?

Actually, yes. It gives an individual a level of customization unavailable to those who don't stick with a tiny guild. A single player could theoretiically form a guild and create his/her own tabard, locking a design for an individual use. So, yes, this is a form of abusing the system.

And from a ZoS standpoint, why would they cater to a single or a tiny group in preference to catering to a large group? Which one brings in more money?

Cyanhide

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

Discrimination..yes. If we both walk into a diner and order a meal that costs the same amount, I get steak, you get stale bread...is that fair or discrimation?

Let me help you, I am mister social welfare, here we have a family a 5 members, 2 parents 3 children, they get support for 5 people.

Here is you, you only have 1 child, yet you expect the same amount of money then the family supporting 3 children. Fair?

Sorry that's the best analogy I could come up with I should feel bad.

Innocente

I agree. There should be NO limitations on guild features based on population of the guild. Makes no sense in this game, actually. A guild of 1 person should have a bank and a store. I mean, what's it going to hurt anyway. The whole rest of the game is going solo friendly, why not guild features as well?

One great way to promote guilds is to give bonuses and buffs based on the -active- membership (like anyone not logged in for 2 weeks does not count).

But, right now it is all restrictive and negative. Which is not much fun for normal folks.

jrgray93

No matter what your thoughts on what makes a guild a guild, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that a guild of 3 shouldn't be allowed to purchase a tabard. The guild bank situation is another discussion, but I feel like a compromise could be found for just a limited bank.

Fairydragon3

basically why I haven't kicked anyone out of my empty guild, if they want to play that just means i just need to get my 3 friends to play with me soon, and we can have aour own private bank.

This is the reason you need a few members because they do not want you to have a private bank with just your 3 friends/ or family.

You would have more luck complaining on how there is not enough personal bank space, since this is what you are after

mmlewis67b14_ESO

If the game permits a group of 3 to create a "guild" then why not let us have "guild" perks. I am allowed my opinion and there are a lot of smaller guilds out there who have the same issue. I understand about everyone having their own personal guild banks, but what about legitimate "groups" that form guilds. We shouldn't be penalized because of others who would abuse the system.

jrgray93

Limited size on a per-member basis for guild banks in small guilds. Why is nobody even entertaining this idea?

Cyanhide

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

If the game permits a group of 3 to create a "guild" then why not let us have "guild" perks. I am allowed my opinion and there are a lot of smaller guilds out there who have the same issue.
.

Smaller then 3? Oh please do tell. The fact that you can start a guild with less then 10 is bad game design, nothing more.

seanolan

The solution of course is to PAY as much as a regular guild would. Buy 7 more accounts. Problem solved.

Oh, you don't want to provide the same income to the service provider as others who get the benefits? Well, that seems fair...after all, banks don't give benefits to large depositors, do they? Credit cards don't give better rates and benefits to customers who charge a lot. Businesses don't give benefits to regular customers.

Oh, wait....

Audigy

Well it makes you really wonder sometimes,

on the one hand ZO states that people want a solo game and therefore they nerf anything group related like the VR.

On the other hand, they introduce a patch 1.3 which is purely focused on guilds and large groups.

...

People in large guilds are just as much a minority as the "nerf VR now" was. Yet both get their will, even though they are the total opposite of each other


I fully understand the pain of the OP, guild membership should be voluntary and not because you want a bigger bank, the ability to trade or a tabard. Because this is what ruined guilds in WOW. The boni and benefits of mass members, so that the social being of a guild was lose over time.

mmlewis67b14_ESO

I am not after a guild bank, we would like to be able to get tabards though.

jrgray93

If you two are just going to turn to sarcasm to try to indirectly insult the guy, just stop. There is no reason there can't be limited perks for small guilds.

And I for one don't want to join a large guild. I'd say 50 dedicated players tops. The ones with hundreds are just spam fests, so I disable chat and do nothing but use their bank. It defeats itself.

aeroch

Or just allow guilds with less than 10 players to purchase a guild bank. One more goldsink and everyone wins

mmlewis67b14_ESO

Cyanhide wrote: »

mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »

Discrimination..yes. If we both walk into a diner and order a meal that costs the same amount, I get steak, you get stale bread...is that fair or discrimation?

Let me help you, I am mister social welfare, here we have a family a 5 members, 2 parents 3 children, they get support for 5 people.

Here is you, you only have 1 child, yet you expect the same amount of money then the family supporting 3 children. Fair?

Sorry that's the best analogy I could come up with I should feel bad.

Your analogy is degrading. I have every right to express how I feel without condescending attitude or tone (welfare?!). Also, my sub costs the same as yours.

Cyanhide

Audigy wrote: »

Because this is what ruined guilds in WOW. The boni and benefits of mass members, so that the social being of a guild was lose over time.

How is making a "guild" for just you and your wife and your kid social? Not that it matters, OP can do what he want, but that's not a guild, that a party.

DAMMIT JIM

Akiainavas

Cyanhide wrote: »

That's not a guild, that's a family. Honestly a guild of 3 members? Next thing you know everyone starts a "guild" just for the extra bank space.

And what's wrong with that ? If you play only with 2-3 close friends and got in the game together - then why not create your own small guild ? Honestly can't see a problem with that.