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Small guild discrimination
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seanolan✭✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »I'm curious why you feel like you deserve anything more than your guild name and chat for having three people join the guild? What do you contribute to the game with this three person guild that justifies anything more? Just because you want it? Well I want to be able to start one just by myself and have my own tabard I design that no one else gets .. but I am willing to accept that a tabard designates guilds of 10 or more people.
Gee I guess you are right. Please tell me what it is that you contribute that makes you better than a family playing together and enjoying quality time together?
I don't know...perhaps he contributes socialization for more than 3 people?1 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭You want something special because of your unique snowflake of a situation so you are the one who needs to justify what you contribute for the rules to be changed for you.4
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NorthernFury✭✭✭✭You want something special because of your unique snowflake of a situation so you are the one who needs to justify what you contribute for the rules to be changed for you.
All you need to see is the term 'discrimination' in the post title to see that some people just love to be 'victimized' and then to argue about it.
Skadi Storm-Blade - VR14 Altmer Sorcerer
Brynnhild Valkyrja - VR12 Nord DragonKnight
Haakon Hardrada - VR12 Nord Templar
Sanguine's Tester (retired)
Cattle die
kinsmen die
all men are mortal.
Words of praise
will never perish
nor a noble name.
- The Havamal4 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Ah, sorry, I didn't know you were a ZOS employee and therefore knew what the design criteria were.fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
You can physically CREATE a guild with less, but you don't get the benefits, IE. BECOME a guild until you get to 10. Being able to create a guild with less than 10 is because of logistics and ease of use.
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
How?mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »I'm curious why you feel like you deserve anything more than your guild name and chat for having three people join the guild? What do you contribute to the game with this three person guild that justifies anything more? Just because you want it? Well I want to be able to start one just by myself and have my own tabard I design that no one else gets .. but I am willing to accept that a tabard designates guilds of 10 or more people.
Gee I guess you are right. Please tell me what it is that you contribute that makes you better than a family playing together and enjoying quality time together?
I don't know...perhaps he contributes socialization for more than 3 people?
What does a 500 man guild contribute to the game?
Answer: nothing, of itself, except a pitiful excuse for an economy. 500 people do no more for the game, as a group, than 2 as a group.2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Thanks for confirming the post I replied to was entirely wrong.fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
You can physically CREATE a guild with less, but you don't get the benefits, IE. BECOME a guild until you get to 10. Being able to create a guild with less than 10 is because of logistics and ease of use.
No need to add the bit about 'benefits', there was no caveat to the creation of a guild in that post.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 10, 2014 6:23PM0 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭My family did the same thing just so we had our own chat channel... but it would be cool to have a family tabard and bank. It would save a lot of hassle and mails in game.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »My family did the same thing just so we had our own chat channel... but it would be cool to have a family tabard and bank. It would save a lot of hassle and mails in game.
I'm sure it would be cool, but it would also be cool if they gave me wings and a giant sword.
I get that you wanted a chat channel, but you clearly understood that it was all you were getting. There is (and should be) no other purpose to having a "guild" comprised of 4 people. Frankly, I'd support them going towards a WoW system of requiring 10 people on a guild charter to even form a guild. It would put a stop to the complaints of perceived bias.----
Murray?2 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Actually I think your guild should be given 1000 space bank, 10,000 gold a day per person and free legendary gear because .. you play with your family so you are much better than everyone else and deserve a special set of rules that no one else has to follow.3
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pitdemon_ESO✭✭✭I have my own personal bank vault, it's way easier than dealing with bank alts. I don't understand why it's an issue for some people, it's not like I have some weird power that I can use for godmode PvP, I just have to stare at one loading screen when I want to do some decon or crafting instead of 4 or more.
I'm all about realism in MMO's but the banking system here isn't ESO's greatest feature. History is rife with banker's who would limit the amount you could withdraw in a short period of time, but deposit? Really?
As for the OP, since it's just you and the fam, have say, your wife make another guild, then invite a bunch of low level randoms to it and set the bank up. Then you can use that and still have access to Guild 1's chat and whatnot.
Hell, you can even mute Guild 2 in chat if having people talk or ask questions is too much ("Hey, umm, why don't we ever talk or do anything?..." )The Grixxitt of Melek - Alfar Nightblade
Grixx of the Reach - Crafter/Reachwitch/Sorceror
Must...downvote...stupidity... (clicks sidebar furiously)0 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:
I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild and DO NOT plan on forming a larger guild as we enjoy playing together without all the spam/drama of other players. We shouldn't be forced to join a large guild to get a bank. It is bad enough that we can't have a guild bank without inviting 7 other strangers into our guild, but to be denied guild tabards and other benefits that are coming with these changes is just a waste of time and money for all of us. I had hoped that eso would be different than all the other mmos who force players to join large guilds to receive extra benefit. Someone stated that we all pay the same sub and should have access to the same benefits as large guilds. I completely agree. Small guild discrimination is alive and thriving in ESO. I have been playing the Elder Scrolls series since 2003 (ES III: Morrowind)and somehow with this series roots I thought they would embrace all players, not just the big guilds. Neglecting and discriminating against small guilds and single players is inexcusable in my opinion. Shame on you, TESO, shame.
I wonder who's being discriminatory here? ZOS? Or your three man party for excluding everyone else?Allow cross-platform transfers and merges0 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »My family did the same thing just so we had our own chat channel... but it would be cool to have a family tabard and bank. It would save a lot of hassle and mails in game.
I'm sure it would be cool, but it would also be cool if they gave me wings and a giant sword.
I get that you wanted a chat channel, but you clearly understood that it was all you were getting. There is (and should be) no other purpose to having a "guild" comprised of 4 people. Frankly, I'd support them going towards a WoW system of requiring 10 people on a guild charter to even form a guild. It would put a stop to the complaints of perceived bias.
Chat channels are the reason we created the "guild" in the first place. It would be nice to have the ability to trade between us at no cost right now we have to either meet up or mail items to each other. In EQ I had my alt guild when I 5 boxed people kept asking to join my guild because we had a sweet tabard.
Now about the wings and sword... that would be cool..0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »My family did the same thing just so we had our own chat channel... but it would be cool to have a family tabard and bank. It would save a lot of hassle and mails in game.
I'm sure it would be cool, but it would also be cool if they gave me wings and a giant sword.
I get that you wanted a chat channel, but you clearly understood that it was all you were getting. There is (and should be) no other purpose to having a "guild" comprised of 4 people. Frankly, I'd support them going towards a WoW system of requiring 10 people on a guild charter to even form a guild. It would put a stop to the complaints of perceived bias.
Chat channels are the reason we created the "guild" in the first place. It would be nice to have the ability to trade between us at no cost right now we have to either meet up or mail items to each other. In EQ I had my alt guild when I 5 boxed people kept asking to join my guild because we had a sweet tabard.
Now about the wings and sword... that would be cool..
You have the ability to trade at no cost: it's called the trade window. Most guilds don't use their guild banks for that anyway, because it's way too risky. In fact, in my trading guilds, I still send items COD or meet someone directly for trade. The bank doesn't even enter in to the equation. You only have 4 people. How hard can it be to meet up?----
Murray?1 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »My family did the same thing just so we had our own chat channel... but it would be cool to have a family tabard and bank. It would save a lot of hassle and mails in game.
I'm sure it would be cool, but it would also be cool if they gave me wings and a giant sword.
I get that you wanted a chat channel, but you clearly understood that it was all you were getting. There is (and should be) no other purpose to having a "guild" comprised of 4 people. Frankly, I'd support them going towards a WoW system of requiring 10 people on a guild charter to even form a guild. It would put a stop to the complaints of perceived bias.
Chat channels are the reason we created the "guild" in the first place. It would be nice to have the ability to trade between us at no cost right now we have to either meet up or mail items to each other. In EQ I had my alt guild when I 5 boxed people kept asking to join my guild because we had a sweet tabard.
Now about the wings and sword... that would be cool..
You have the ability to trade at no cost: it's called the trade window. Most guilds don't use their guild banks for that anyway, because it's way too risky. In fact, in my trading guilds, I still send items COD or meet someone directly for trade. The bank doesn't even enter in to the equation. You only have 4 people. How hard can it be to meet up?
Our guild is 6 family members... now I just need to get my two kids (3 and 8) to play and my brothers kids and my cuz kids to play and we can get that magic 10 number...1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »My family did the same thing just so we had our own chat channel... but it would be cool to have a family tabard and bank. It would save a lot of hassle and mails in game.
I'm sure it would be cool, but it would also be cool if they gave me wings and a giant sword.
I get that you wanted a chat channel, but you clearly understood that it was all you were getting. There is (and should be) no other purpose to having a "guild" comprised of 4 people. Frankly, I'd support them going towards a WoW system of requiring 10 people on a guild charter to even form a guild. It would put a stop to the complaints of perceived bias.
Chat channels are the reason we created the "guild" in the first place. It would be nice to have the ability to trade between us at no cost right now we have to either meet up or mail items to each other. In EQ I had my alt guild when I 5 boxed people kept asking to join my guild because we had a sweet tabard.
Now about the wings and sword... that would be cool..
You have the ability to trade at no cost: it's called the trade window. Most guilds don't use their guild banks for that anyway, because it's way too risky. In fact, in my trading guilds, I still send items COD or meet someone directly for trade. The bank doesn't even enter in to the equation. You only have 4 people. How hard can it be to meet up?
Our guild is 6 family members... now I just need to get my two kids (3 and 8) to play and my brothers kids and my cuz kids to play and we can get that magic 10 number...
Ok, and once again: how hard is it for the 6 of you to meet up? I manage to meet up with people in my large guilds quite regularly. You can even teleport to players directly if you don't want to run to a wayshrine.----
Murray?1 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »My family did the same thing just so we had our own chat channel... but it would be cool to have a family tabard and bank. It would save a lot of hassle and mails in game.
I'm sure it would be cool, but it would also be cool if they gave me wings and a giant sword.
I get that you wanted a chat channel, but you clearly understood that it was all you were getting. There is (and should be) no other purpose to having a "guild" comprised of 4 people. Frankly, I'd support them going towards a WoW system of requiring 10 people on a guild charter to even form a guild. It would put a stop to the complaints of perceived bias.
Chat channels are the reason we created the "guild" in the first place. It would be nice to have the ability to trade between us at no cost right now we have to either meet up or mail items to each other. In EQ I had my alt guild when I 5 boxed people kept asking to join my guild because we had a sweet tabard.
Now about the wings and sword... that would be cool..
You have the ability to trade at no cost: it's called the trade window. Most guilds don't use their guild banks for that anyway, because it's way too risky. In fact, in my trading guilds, I still send items COD or meet someone directly for trade. The bank doesn't even enter in to the equation. You only have 4 people. How hard can it be to meet up?
Our guild is 6 family members... now I just need to get my two kids (3 and 8) to play and my brothers kids and my cuz kids to play and we can get that magic 10 number...
Ok, and once again: how hard is it for the 6 of you to meet up? I manage to meet up with people in my large guilds quite regularly. You can even teleport to players directly if you don't want to run to a wayshrine.
That whole faction issue... 3 AD 1 DC and 2 P... (mains that is, but we do have alts that we log into to trade, its what we do now) God forbid they made it easy and convenient, but I see by this forum it hurts other players so much by having small guilds with banks.1 -
Gix✭✭✭✭Honestly, it's hard to feel any sympathy.
Like many have said, 3 people isn't a guild. I'm surprised that the game even let you create a guild at all. It's not uncommon for MMOs to have a charter for each player to sign when creating a guild (WoW needed a minimum of 10 people).
Zenimax is adding guild features for actual guilds. The ability to form a guild for chat (and maybe spare yourself from unwanted guild invitations) is probably the only feature you should get.
I'm in two guilds right now. I joined a PvP guild and I created another one so that my friends can all chat while we're not grouped together.
You refuse to be social, so why are you annoyed that you're locked out of social features? Discrimination? Hardly. You're just using the tools outside their intended purpose.Edited by Gix on July 10, 2014 7:27PM3 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭I'm in two guilds right now. I joined a PvP guild and I created another one so that my friends can all chat while we're not grouped together.
I wish they had the ability to add people to a chat channel so I do not need my friend "guild" to chat... now that is "anti social"
I'm in 5 guilds 4 trading and my family guild... the most "anti-social" are the 4 trading guilds.
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Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you can't fill a single group with your entire guild roster, then you are not a guild. Technically, you're not even a full group yet.
I can't go solo endgame group content just because I pay a subscription, just like 3 people can't get all of the benefits of a full guild. There's certain criteria you need to meet in order to experience certain content. Been that way for years in any MMO I can think of.Edited by Sallington on July 10, 2014 7:43PMDaggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||3 -
Gix✭✭✭✭
I don't think you know what being anti-social means; it has nothing to do about whenever or not a person is hostile or vulgar. Having to make a "guild" to host friends is still a social thing.Amsel_McKay wrote: »I'm in two guilds right now. I joined a PvP guild and I created another one so that my friends can all chat while we're not grouped together.
I wish they had the ability to add people to a chat channel so I do not need my friend "guild" to chat... now that is "anti social"
I'm in 5 guilds 4 trading and my family guild... the most "anti-social" are the 4 trading guilds.
Being social is about willingness to deal with other people (good and bad).
Yes, having a chat channel would've been better. I don't think anyone would disagree.0 -
Exarch✭✭✭Our little guild started in CoH, and has persisted through a half-dozen or so MMOs since then; we don't mind not having a bank, store, etc., we understand that there are resource constraints, but I don't see any good reason to restrict us from buying tabards.1 -
Surinen✭✭✭I smell boiling heresy. depraved ignorance and bad will is filling my nostrils with its putrid stench.
Guilds no matter how small should be able to benefit from all the privileges.
word 'guild' does not correspond with definite number of participants.
- Justiciar Lord Surinen, Lion among the Laws, Wielder of the Hallowed Codex of OR, Crystal Knight of Retribution, Heir to the SunMissing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest5 -
Gix✭✭✭✭
C'mon man, use some sense!Guilds no matter how small should be able to benefit from all the privileges.
word 'guild' does not correspond with definite number of participants.
You have solo-play and then you got group play. In this game, a group consists of 2-to-4 players. A raid consists of 5 or more players. A guild... should, at LEAST, be bigger than a group!
Having a 10-people requirement for some guild features is not unreasonable.
The OP with his family are 3 people. Call that a !@#$ing group.0 -
hiyde✭✭✭✭✭
✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »
Please don't assume I am antisocial. This isn't my first mmo. I am a very active player and enjoy the social aspects of the game, as I have with every game I have played. My small guild was made so that I can play with my son (who lives out of state) and my fiancé (who frequently works out of town). During the times that I have to play with them, we prefer to spend time without the distracting aspects of large guilds. It is our private game time. There is nothing wrong with this. All we wanted was the upcoming tabards.
Why don't we just set it up so that when your fresh new character stumbles off the boat, there is a big fat pile of *everything* in the game waiting to be taken at the shoreline. Sometimes it feels like that's where we're heading with all the feeling of entitlement going on.
You are welcome to form a guild for as few people as you want. But some of the features will not be available to you until you meet certain thresholds. Nothing wrong with providing some perks for larger/more active guilds. In fact, I think it's great.
In regards to tabards, this is to make your guild identifiable (something, with 3 family members and no intentions to grow, isn't needed for your guild.). You want it as a vanity item. Well sorry, that's not it's intention. Again, not *every single thing in the game* has to be attainable by every player in it. Solution! Create some matching dye colored armor and voila you'll all have a look in common and bigger guilds can have a perk *designed for bigger guilds!*
In regards to guild bank (though YOU didn't request it, because everyone wants everything without meeting the requirements to get it, we went there), sorry but I see no reason for a guild of 1 or a few people to have that gigantic bank. Size of the bank should be earned by size of the guild imo.
As for your reasoning above, there is absolutely no reason you can't be in a larger guild, get the related perks, and still have your 'family time'. Use group chat (or hell, yell across the house to each other), or, keep your family guild for privacy and join bigger one(s) for the other benefits. As with Zone chat, you can toggle chat on/off for any guild.
Plenty of ways to get what you desire other than shouting "discrimination! Gimme!".Edited by hiyde on July 10, 2014 8:36PM@Hiyde GM/Founder - Bleakrock Barter Co (Trade Guild - PC/NA) | Blackbriar Barter Co (Trade Guild-PC/NA)0 -
IlmmSoul Shrivenmmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:
I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild and DO NOT plan on forming a larger guild as we enjoy playing together without all the spam/drama of other players. We shouldn't be forced to join a large guild to get a bank. It is bad enough that we can't have a guild bank without inviting 7 other strangers into our guild, but to be denied guild tabards and other benefits that are coming with these changes is just a waste of time and money for all of us. I had hoped that eso would be different than all the other mmos who force players to join large guilds to receive extra benefit. Someone stated that we all pay the same sub and should have access to the same benefits as large guilds. I completely agree. Small guild discrimination is alive and thriving in ESO. I have been playing the Elder Scrolls series since 2003 (ES III: Morrowind)and somehow with this series roots I thought they would embrace all players, not just the big guilds. Neglecting and discriminating against small guilds and single players is inexcusable in my opinion. Shame on you, TESO, shame.
I've thought this since the beginning. I've hoped they would have changed things, but it doesn't seem that way. I just don't think this game is for small guilds, just large faceless guilds that need the numbers, not the people.3 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »I previously posted this in The Road Ahead discussion but am reposting here as I believe this issue needs resolution:
I am sadly disappointed about the guild changes. My fiancé and I play together with my son. We have 3 members in the guild and DO NOT plan on forming a larger guild as we enjoy playing together without all the spam/drama of other players. We shouldn't be forced to join a large guild to get a bank. It is bad enough that we can't have a guild bank without inviting 7 other strangers into our guild, but to be denied guild tabards and other benefits that are coming with these changes is just a waste of time and money for all of us. I had hoped that eso would be different than all the other mmos who force players to join large guilds to receive extra benefit. Someone stated that we all pay the same sub and should have access to the same benefits as large guilds. I completely agree. Small guild discrimination is alive and thriving in ESO. I have been playing the Elder Scrolls series since 2003 (ES III: Morrowind)and somehow with this series roots I thought they would embrace all players, not just the big guilds. Neglecting and discriminating against small guilds and single players is inexcusable in my opinion. Shame on you, TESO, shame.
I've thought this since the beginning. I've hoped they would have changed things, but it doesn't seem that way. I just don't think this game is for small guilds, just large faceless guilds that need the numbers, not the people.
Yeah, those huge, faceless guilds of 10 people sure are ruining the game.----
Murray?1 -
Surinen✭✭✭
You dare to question judgement of the Justiciar?!!!!!! SACRILEGEC'mon man, use some sense!
You have solo-play and then you got group play. In this game, a group consists of 2-to-4 players. A raid consists of 5 or more players. A guild... should, at LEAST, be bigger than a group!
Having a 10-people requirement for some guild features is not unreasonable.
The OP with his family are 3 people. Call that a !@#$ing group.
but I'm using 'some sense'. please read my comment again. I've clearly mentioned smell.
once again: word 'guild' is not a synonym for big size group. guild can be 2+, but nothing prevents one from making 1 man guild, although it does not fit a definition of a fellowship that has been traditionally connected with the term 'guild'.
and family can form a guild.
it is unreasonable.
Missing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest1 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »Discrimination..yes. If we both walk into a diner and order a meal that costs the same amount, I get steak, you get stale bread...is that fair or discrimation?
Yeah, I'm sure this is exactly what M.L.K. had in mind with all his speeches. The oppressed small guild that isn't even a group. Keep fighting the brave fight. One day you shall overcome and reach the promised land!0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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You are not paying for a guild you are paying to play an MMO. I have never heard of any sub based MMO that allowed you to create a guild of 3 people and get the same exact benefits as a guild of 500. I think it's generous of them already to allow you create a guild without paying anything or even charging any fees at all. At this point I would strongly suggest that you go make some friends and invite them to play with your family.mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »Discrimination..yes. If we both walk into a diner and order a meal that costs the same amount, I get steak, you get stale bread...is that fair or discrimation?
:trollin:2
