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Small guild discrimination
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Soulharvester✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Soulharvester wrote: »Op is right, if you make a guild, no matter what size, then they should have access to the guild bank.
If people abuse, then its on them, its not going to affect me whatsoever.
With all due respect, this is where people are mistaken. Every item saved in the game puts a stress load on the mega server. This is the reason guilds are currently capped at 500. There are a few examples of Developers explaining this in various different interviews. If everyone had their own personal bank, there would be a massive load put on the server. It would create that many more objects the server would have to load every time someone logged in.
So yes, this would indeed effect you. It would effect everyone that wants a smooth game.
Well, I did not know that, so thank you for the info!
My counter is this then, can those items be put in a cloud? outside the servers so as to avoid this problem?1 -
Tremulous✭✭✭
Well MMO is synonymous with large community.
A guild is a gathering of people who most of the time I would call my friends sometimes even family. A family is not a small group of people, you can hate them love them and in pvp kill them. It sounds more like you want another offline game then this one is not for you.
You don't need 100 people to be a guild.Edited by Tremulous on July 10, 2014 3:47PM0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »
Wow is right you are being discriminated against because you don't want to take part in a guild or deal with any of the parts of a guild but think you deserve 500 bank spaces for you and two other family members just because you don't like other people???
The definition of discrimination has really changed.5 -
Leijona✭✭✭✭✭Giving two-player-guilds access to tabards? Sure, why not.
Giving them access to guild-banks with the current multi-guilding-system? No, please not.
Three people making three guilds and getting 1500 bank slots in that way, doesn't sound really good.1 -
Anath_Q✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Soulharvester wrote: »Op is right, if you make a guild, no matter what size, then they should have access to the guild bank.
If people abuse, then its on them, its not going to affect me whatsoever.
With all due respect, this is where people are mistaken. Every item saved in the game puts a stress load on the mega server. This is the reason guilds are currently capped at 500. There are a few examples of Developers explaining this in various different interviews. If everyone had their own personal bank, there would be a massive load put on the server. It would create that many more objects the server would have to load every time someone logged in.
So yes, this would indeed effect you. It would effect everyone that wants a smooth game.
There are numerous other games, running on much older servers, that allow greater flexibility for small guilds to have access to bank space without suffering any performance issues. Perhaps the megaserver makes a difference, but it would not hurt to consider allowing small guilds access to limited amenities, such as a reduced bank size.Edited by Anath_Q on July 10, 2014 3:50PM| GM Cheesemongers of Nirn |2 -
Soulharvester✭✭✭In this one game I used to play, we had to earn enough guild exp to open up our guild bank slots.
Now, it did require a good number of people to level that guild, granted higher levels did the heavy lifting, but even with them it took upwards of about 6-9 months roughly.
Then, more guild experience to get access to other features, such as a broker, portals, crafting tables, etc.
That might work, if we can figure out the item thing with the servers. Just a thought.2 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Soulharvester wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Soulharvester wrote: »Op is right, if you make a guild, no matter what size, then they should have access to the guild bank.
If people abuse, then its on them, its not going to affect me whatsoever.
With all due respect, this is where people are mistaken. Every item saved in the game puts a stress load on the mega server. This is the reason guilds are currently capped at 500. There are a few examples of Developers explaining this in various different interviews. If everyone had their own personal bank, there would be a massive load put on the server. It would create that many more objects the server would have to load every time someone logged in.
So yes, this would indeed effect you. It would effect everyone that wants a smooth game.
Well, I did not know that, so thank you for the info!
My counter is this then, can those items be put in a cloud? outside the servers so as to avoid this problem?
Everything is pretty much a "cloud" now that is just a catch phrase it doesn't reduce stress at all. Cloud typically just means offsite servers it isn't magic or anything. Typically companies like this just rent out servers from a datacenter so they can expand or reduce their server needs at any time. You could say the entire megaserver is a cloud. When they say "megaserver" it isn't just one big super server it is a bunch of servers.2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Soulharvester wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Soulharvester wrote: »Op is right, if you make a guild, no matter what size, then they should have access to the guild bank.
If people abuse, then its on them, its not going to affect me whatsoever.
With all due respect, this is where people are mistaken. Every item saved in the game puts a stress load on the mega server. This is the reason guilds are currently capped at 500. There are a few examples of Developers explaining this in various different interviews. If everyone had their own personal bank, there would be a massive load put on the server. It would create that many more objects the server would have to load every time someone logged in.
So yes, this would indeed effect you. It would effect everyone that wants a smooth game.
Well, I did not know that, so thank you for the info!
My counter is this then, can those items be put in a cloud? outside the servers so as to avoid this problem?
I'm honestly not sure lol. I will try to find the podcast in which I heard them (don't even remember which dev. I think it was lead game designer Konkle) explain this. It was a while back. The question was why are guilds capped at 500 and he explained that guild rosters and storage from the banks all put a load on the server. He went on to explain that there was a fine balance between giving people what they want and and also supplying them with a smooth gaming experience.
He then went on to say that once the game was stabalized they might be able to work in additional roster spots. So personal guild storage might be an option in the future, but right now they have their hands full just dealing with 500 member guilds and all the storage issues it creates.
So if storage and roster slots put a burden on the game already, then imagine how much stress it would create if everyone had that much storage. I'll dig around and see if I can find a link.
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Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭If Zenimax considers veteran dungeons to be end-game content, and dungeons require four people, then the minimum number of people required to unlock "guild benefits" should be four.3 -
Leijona✭✭✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »and yet again...this IS NOT about a guild bank.
Not for you, but there are others who would say "When we get tabards, we should also get banks."
And that is what most here seem to disagree with.
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kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Soulharvester wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Soulharvester wrote: »Op is right, if you make a guild, no matter what size, then they should have access to the guild bank.
If people abuse, then its on them, its not going to affect me whatsoever.
With all due respect, this is where people are mistaken. Every item saved in the game puts a stress load on the mega server. This is the reason guilds are currently capped at 500. There are a few examples of Developers explaining this in various different interviews. If everyone had their own personal bank, there would be a massive load put on the server. It would create that many more objects the server would have to load every time someone logged in.
So yes, this would indeed effect you. It would effect everyone that wants a smooth game.
Well, I did not know that, so thank you for the info!
My counter is this then, can those items be put in a cloud? outside the servers so as to avoid this problem?
I'm honestly not sure lol. I will try to find the podcast in which I heard them (don't even remember which dev. I think it was lead game designer Konkle) explain this. It was a while back. The question was why are guilds capped at 500 and he explained that guild rosters and storage from the banks all put a load on the server. He went on to explain that there was a fine balance between giving people what they want and and also supplying them with a smooth gaming experience.
He then went on to say that once the game was stabalized they might be able to work in additional roster spots. So personal guild storage might be an option in the future, but right now they have their hands full just dealing with 500 member guilds and all the storage issues it creates.
So if storage and roster slots put a burden on the game already, then imagine how much stress it would create if everyone had that much storage. I'll dig around and see if I can find a link.
It is because for you to be able to interract with an itme it has to be in a database that the game can access at any time. The larger the database the slower the response time.0 -
Soulharvester✭✭✭Soulharvester wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Soulharvester wrote: »Op is right, if you make a guild, no matter what size, then they should have access to the guild bank.
If people abuse, then its on them, its not going to affect me whatsoever.
With all due respect, this is where people are mistaken. Every item saved in the game puts a stress load on the mega server. This is the reason guilds are currently capped at 500. There are a few examples of Developers explaining this in various different interviews. If everyone had their own personal bank, there would be a massive load put on the server. It would create that many more objects the server would have to load every time someone logged in.
So yes, this would indeed effect you. It would effect everyone that wants a smooth game.
Well, I did not know that, so thank you for the info!
My counter is this then, can those items be put in a cloud? outside the servers so as to avoid this problem?
Everything is pretty much a "cloud" now that is just a catch phrase it doesn't reduce stress at all. Cloud typically just means offsite servers it isn't magic or anything. Typically companies like this just rent out servers from a datacenter so they can expand or reduce their server needs at any time. You could say the entire megaserver is a cloud. When they say "megaserver" it isn't just one big super server it is a bunch of servers.
Ahh, I had this image in mind of something out of matrix, machines floating around and stuff...
I need to brush up on the 21st century tech im still in the 80s lol...
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jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Well MMO is synonymous with large community.
And by being in a small group, you are still in the MMO community. The MMO community isn't the same as the small guild community. I wasn't talking about the MMO itself.mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »
Wow is right you are being discriminated against because you don't want to take part in a guild or deal with any of the parts of a guild but think you deserve 500 bank spaces for you and two other family members just because you don't like other people???
The definition of discrimination has really changed.
OP never said (s)he wanted 500 guild bank spaces. Straw man it up some more.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job3 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »Discrimination..yes. If we both walk into a diner and order a meal that costs the same amount, I get steak, you get stale bread...is that fair or discrimation?
That has nothing to do with this. A closer analogy is I represent a company that every employee eats at a diner and negotiated a discount for my employees because that is 1000 people that eat at the diner and you walk in with your wife and kid and expect the same discount. Being part of a larger group affords you advantages, if you don't want to be part of a larger group that is your right but you can't demand the group's advantage and scream discrimination if you are not given them.5 -
mmlewis67b14_ESO✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »Discrimination..yes. If we both walk into a diner and order a meal that costs the same amount, I get steak, you get stale bread...is that fair or discrimation?
That has nothing to do with this. A closer analogy is I represent a company that every employee eats at a diner and negotiated a discount for my employees because that is 1000 people that eat at the diner and you walk in with your wife and kid and expect the same discount. Being part of a larger group affords you advantages, if you don't want to be part of a larger group that is your right but you can't demand the group's advantage and scream discrimination if you are not given them.
Please don't assume I am antisocial. This isn't my first mmo. I am a very active player and enjoy the social aspects of the game, as I have with every game I have played. My small guild was made so that I can play with my son (who lives out of state) and my fiancé (who frequently works out of town). During the times that I have to play with them, we prefer to spend time without the distracting aspects of large guilds. It is our private game time. There is nothing wrong with this. All we wanted was the upcoming tabards.2 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »Discrimination..yes. If we both walk into a diner and order a meal that costs the same amount, I get steak, you get stale bread...is that fair or discrimation?
That has nothing to do with this. A closer analogy is I represent a company that every employee eats at a diner and negotiated a discount for my employees because that is 1000 people that eat at the diner and you walk in with your wife and kid and expect the same discount. Being part of a larger group affords you advantages, if you don't want to be part of a larger group that is your right but you can't demand the group's advantage and scream discrimination if you are not given them.
Please don't assume I am antisocial. This isn't my first mmo. I am a very active player and enjoy the social aspects of the game, as I have with every game I have played. My small guild was made so that I can play with my son (who lives out of state) and my fiancé (who frequently works out of town). During the times that I have to play with them, we prefer to spend time without the distracting aspects of large guilds. It is our private game time. There is nothing wrong with this. All we wanted was the upcoming tabards.
If all you wanted was the upcomming tabards then why put We shouldn't be forced to join a large guild to get a bank in your opening post? I personally don't care if you are antisocial or a social butterfly to be honest I'm just saying you should not get the advantages that come with playing with a larger group of players if you are unwilling to play with a larger group of players.
I also don't really see an issue with the tabard I'm just responding to what you posted about the bank.4 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭3 people does not account for any advantage. Its is not even enough to do a group dungeon with. Claiming "discrimination" is just silly. Guild benefits for larger numbers are guild benefits for larger numbers, that is the typical way and what you need to have the large number luxuries. What good are guild awards if you hand them out to everyone. What good is a "membership" to something when every Tom, ***, and Harry get the same thing. This discrimination claim is petty and self indulgent for the simple desire to look pretty with a Tabard with his family.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting CommentsEdited by ZOS_UlyssesW on July 10, 2014 5:18PM<X-Raided>3 -
mmlewis67b14_ESO✭✭✭I made the statement about the bank because we are denied that already and have made due without the bank. Now they announce they are giving 10 man guilds tabards too. It is unfair to reward large guilds and ignore smaller guilds. We pay the same sub as everyone else. If small guilds are to be denied benefits, then the game should have been designed so that guilds less than 10 could not be formed.6
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KhajitFurTrader✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Matt Friror wrote:Few features are more important to ESO than guilds. They provide the easiest and most fun way to meet new people, chat with groups while you’re playing, and are almost always the first choice when putting together a dungeon or PvP group.
So, yeah, obviously they want guilds to be meaningful and useful. Obviously, they want to offer some incentives to encourage the building of guilds with, say, more than 3 people, because a guild of 3 can't even field a proper dungeon group. Want to have the perks? Do something for it, don't expect to get everything handed to you, because you feel entitled or discriminated. The perks are not hung up that high. No one but yourself is stopping you to reach for them.
Functional guilds are meant to be something special (albeit not something being totally mandatory), hence the goodies. If everyone's special, no one is.2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We know that 10 accounts are required for access to a guild bank. Has it been stated that 10 accounts are required for the tabard?2 -
mmlewis67b14_ESO✭✭✭This is typical self entitlement. I want, want, want, but only at my personal terms. 3 people does not account for any advantage. Its is not even enough to do a group dungeon with. Claiming "discrimination" is just silly. Victimizing yourself for change....the American way? Guild benefits for larger numbers are guild benefits for larger numbers, that is the typical way and what you need to have the large number luxuries. What good are guild awards if you hand them out to everyone. What good is a "membership" to something when every Tom, ***, and Harry get the same thing. This discrimination claim is petty and self indulgent for the simple desire to look pretty with a Tabard with his family. Move on pal, stirring up BS for personal gain....again, the American way?
I didn't say anything about being American.
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mmlewis67b14_ESO✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »We know that 10 accounts are required for access to a guild bank. Has it been stated that 10 accounts are required for the tabard?
Yes its in the update notes.1 -
liquid_wolf✭✭✭✭I understand your point. I just don't think small guilds are high on their priority list at this point.
Every account can join 5 guilds, so if you wanted to you could locate another guild all of you could join that would let you use the bank space, store, and get some of the benefits of being in a larger guild.
My guild actually has many groups in a similar situation like yours. Small group of 5-6 people that simply want to play together and not get involved with much else.
We allow them to jump in and play without issue.
Banks are a little controlled at this point, due to the lack of restrictions... but almost everything else they have access to.0 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »This is typical self entitlement. I want, want, want, but only at my personal terms. 3 people does not account for any advantage. Its is not even enough to do a group dungeon with. Claiming "discrimination" is just silly. Victimizing yourself for change....the American way? Guild benefits for larger numbers are guild benefits for larger numbers, that is the typical way and what you need to have the large number luxuries. What good are guild awards if you hand them out to everyone. What good is a "membership" to something when every Tom, ***, and Harry get the same thing. This discrimination claim is petty and self indulgent for the simple desire to look pretty with a Tabard with his family. Move on pal, stirring up BS for personal gain....again, the American way?
I didn't say anything about being American.
I am American, and used to this behavior. So I was being rude and implying it, as rude as a discrimination claim of pettiness would be.
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Vuron✭✭✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »I made the statement about the bank because we are denied that already and have made due without the bank. Now they announce they are giving 10 man guilds tabards too. It is unfair to reward large guilds and ignore smaller guilds. We pay the same sub as everyone else. If small guilds are to be denied benefits, then the game should have been designed so that guilds less than 10 could not be formed.
There are no differences between large guilds and small guilds. I'm in guilds with almost 500 people and I'm in guilds with 24. They both receive the same benefits.
The issue is that you keep claiming that you are in a small guild, but you are not. The minimum requirement for a guild in ESO is 10 accounts, by definition. Your 3 people is a group, or just a few people that like to play together.
I can't solo and claim that I'm being discriminated against because I don't get group benefits.
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mmlewis67b14_ESO✭✭✭mmlewis67b14_ESO wrote: »I made the statement about the bank because we are denied that already and have made due without the bank. Now they announce they are giving 10 man guilds tabards too. It is unfair to reward large guilds and ignore smaller guilds. We pay the same sub as everyone else. If small guilds are to be denied benefits, then the game should have been designed so that guilds less than 10 could not be formed.
There are no differences between large guilds and small guilds. I'm in guilds with almost 500 people and I'm in guilds with 24. They both receive the same benefits.
The issue is that you keep claiming that you are in a small guild, but you are not. The minimum requirement for a guild in ESO is 10 accounts, by definition. Your 3 people is a group, or just a few people that like to play together.
I can't solo and claim that I'm being discriminated against because I don't get group benefits.
Guilds in TESO can be formed by 2 players.4 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
LOL at the asinine raising of money comment .. how to add something grotesquely absurd to a debate about something so trivial.fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Actually, yes. It gives an individual a level of customization unavailable to those who don't stick with a tiny guild. A single player could theoretiically form a guild and create his/her own tabard, locking a design for an individual use. So, yes, this is a form of abusing the system.
And from a ZoS standpoint, why would they cater to a single or a tiny group in preference to catering to a large group? Which one brings in more money?
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Fissh✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
LOL at the asinine raising of money comment .. how to add something grotesquely absurd to a debate about something so trivial.fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Actually, yes. It gives an individual a level of customization unavailable to those who don't stick with a tiny guild. A single player could theoretiically form a guild and create his/her own tabard, locking a design for an individual use. So, yes, this is a form of abusing the system.
And from a ZoS standpoint, why would they cater to a single or a tiny group in preference to catering to a large group? Which one brings in more money?
the thread, the OP, the agruments.....all trivial, agreed sir, agreed. Yet here we are contributing <X-Raided>1