Slippery slope. If you keep making it easier if someone complains then the logical conclusion of that is you end up with no one complaining but no challenge at all left in the game. This doesn't sound too bad and I hope it really is 'middle ground' but please don't carry on down this path till we have difficulty scaled to the least capable players.

I maybe 1% in all this but I just wanted an open world. I love ESO I don't want to go back to WoW.
In my opinion VR is on point for difficulty. I want it to feel more alive. As in jail system not just Npc.
I like helping ppl and fighting player killers or killing other factions. I know ESo has cyrodiil but it feels like one big battle ground that is all. I don't see the enemy in our area or I don't see players that dishonor their own faction. Then you have vampires/werewolfs running around like they are not.
1. Vampires/werewolfs different story line for them or their own kind of faction due to other elder scroll games. I can see if they stay in human form to pass off as regular person it is ok. Would ppl like or would it be to hard to put in?
2. VR anyway to just open up the World?
3. Jail system to make it lvl 30 below area Npc only then move to pvp/ Npc above 40 lvl area. I know ppl be scare you can call on me. The world does in real life why not in a game. Would ppl like it? Is it to hard to do? Can u make anther server I will pay more?
4. Housing any chance? Like phasing in certain area for it. As in vampire caves(guild of them), werewolf dens(guild type), guild halls, bandit areas, and single players home. Where ppl can visit all them but pick to zone in one except player homes if introduced number 3? Would ppl like it? Can eso do it? I know u need money so why not charge guild leader/ player 5 dollars extra. Would players pay?
i know I got off subject just want to seem like the world is alive the good/neutral/bad. I know I want it all the good and the bad. Ppl trying to ambush me on a road when I am out doing a quest and all they want is my gold. Unexpected it would make me feel as though I am apart of that world. For them as well due to pay or die they take it off my corpse. Unexpected for them would be I already deposit my gold in the bank and a mace to the face. Or other players forming a raid group on those said players. I guess I am the only one. I can dream when I am playing Eso.

oldbushieub17_ESO wrote: »

What I don't get is how many people assume people only play MMOs for the challenge. Don't get me wrong, I like to have a little challenge in my games, but I only ever buy games for the story and/or the puzzles.

Me also. I play ESO for the story and the atmosphere. Not for forced and inexplicable difficulty. I expect to be able to seek out challenges not have to wade through them constantly.

And in a game that only permits grouping in very limited and specific circumstances I expect everything other than specified group instances to be solo-able by reasonably competent players with reasonably competent builds.

At this point I no longer care whether this all makes the L2P chest-beaters unhappy. Zen have not listened to them and they have not listened to us - they've listened purely to money as all businesses will.

The money has spoken and those who don't like what it has said can consider their options just like those of us who didn't like the way things were going had to.

As some comments already posted why are we doing other faction quest? Open world up and give other quest to us please.

Persephonius wrote: »

This is also a good argument for the other side. Those that do not wish to do the veteran zones do not have to, there are already alternates to them.

Until all those skyshards can be got by alternate means you are incorrect.

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Easier with more XP. What a shame.

I definitely won't be grouping with these "new" Vets anytime soon.

Can the "original" Vets get some sort of Title?

I can think of a few. You probably wouldn't like them though.

I picked faction because it's the one my friends wanted to be, and race I disliked least that fitted that faction (and indeed server that they wanted to be on, even though I'm in EU and it's NA server). I've seen one of them log on in the last month, for as long as it took to set more research going.

I'm happy to fight against cultists wherever they are, I'm less interested in the petty power grabs between leaders happy for the world to be pulled into Daedric realms if only they can control a larger piece of it than other leaders!

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

So because of crying babies, we are now going to have the game dummed down and made easy. FFS, seriously! People complain about zenimax possibly ruining the game, when in fact it's the whining community that will end up destroying it.
It's end game content for christ , it's not meant to feel how it did at the start!

VR is leveling content, not end-game so your argument doesn't apply.

Wrong!

VR didn't bother me so much but PLEASE dont add new ranks....

Lyall84 wrote: »

Read my post from above, they are clearly the majority, be it vocal or silent. Zenimax wouldn't make these changes if it was not causing enough of a financial impact to actually be an issue.

Quite. None of these changes are coming about because of vocal forum dwellers. It's coming about because people with spreadsheets don't like what they are seeing. Not liking what they are seeing they demand explanations and solutions.

It's then that customer feedback becomes important. When I cancelled my sub (it's 6 months and still running down) I made sure my reasons for doing so and the steps needed to reverse my decision were conveyed through /feedback and through email.

Forums will be corroborating evidence but it will all have gone to build a picture as to why the Money wasn't happy.

Now people who are only happy with hard-core VR face the same decisions the rest of had to make. Stay or go.

I wasn't concerned with the difficulty level at the veteran zones, I felt they were balanced and was a good challenge.

I do understand people that have problems with it though and if this is what's needed for people to feel the veteran content to be enjoyable, a big thumbs-up from me!

SilverWF wrote: »

Dear ZO, please, add a new title for those, who completed Veteran content before this changes
"True veteran" or just "True"
Coz it's damn unfair!

Presumably after first making sure they did no vp grinding in the exploit spots, gained no loot drops before those were nerfed, and making sure they did all the tough stuff solo rather than in a group ?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

One of the topics we frequently get feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.

Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.

We recognize that many of you love the game you played while leveling up, and that you feel the post-50 zones are too much of a departure from that experience. We hear your requests to continue participating in solo content as you progress through Veteran Ranks, and we’re acting on that feedback.

Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System. We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50. Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily. This is just the first of many large-scale changes coming to ESO’s Veteran System, and we encourage you to watch our QuakeCon panel on Friday, July 17th, where we’ll go into much more detail about the other parts.

Thank you for sticking with us, sharing your concerns, and supporting a game we all love.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Hi!

More options and additions to choose from at vet areas is great!
BUT!
I hope these changes will not remove the current overall nature of mobs and events, which are good as they are! Vet 1 - Vet 6. Because there is a greater concern then only these changes for long-term-players.

I am VERY sorry for a long post. I kindly ask Zenimax to read my feedback.
I do not "demand" any reply, but this is a question IF ESO is changing into another type of MMO with some goals more important then others?
Which IS very important to understand correctly.

My post is NOT to be confused with ANY additions, changes, features, improvements. announced or not. ALL kinds are VERY WELCOMED, even EXPECTED! Which we know happens every 4-6 weeks ish.

We want and LOVE playing ESO, NOT another MMO!

* Changing and evolving ESO is needed and offered, but to change a CORE feature and by doing so, changing ESO into another type of game, where you REMOVE "earning" your exp and to experience different builds, only aimed at high end game, hard encounters? (By fast leveling)

This is not a criticism, but an important question about the changes, which will most likely effect further changes.

I included grouping.
Grouping works, and keeps growing. My post explains why.

I very much hope I have misunderstood these changes.

Please note: This post ONLY applies to Vet 1-6 areas, dungeons and all events PvE wise in all 3 alliances vet areas. Higher Vet, Graglorn, PvP, Cyro is NOT included in my post, because my concern does not effect those areas.

Edit: After reading, again, ALL posts here, one major thing I'd like an answer to, for everyone. My post and concern is the same. My new question may shed some light.

Question 2 - Graglorn
*Is it Graglorn that is to hard? Vet 6 and up?
I understand that Vet1 wants easier Craglorn.
Both these are a Craglorn questions.
* Are Zenimax making Vet 1-6 areas easier because of Craglorn?

* Players in Craglorn, Vet 6-12 have very few to group with. This problem is because, We, the main players, are not there yet. We are grouping in Vet 1-3 areas.

* If Craglorn needs tweaking, I leave to Zenimax. But PLEASE do not base a "easy mode" in Vet 1-6 areas because of Craglorn?
* Statement from Zenimax sais there are more "stuff" coming to Craglorn.

*Is not the solution about Craglorn, time?


Note: From posts here about the reason for easier in Vet 1-6 areas
Reason stated is Vet 12 who wants to level an alt faster.

* I am not Zenimax, but can this justify to heavily change ESO?

I ask you kindly to please read my full post.


My concern and Main question
A Zenimax reply to correct of my impression that these changes are NOT changing ESO into another type of MMO, where challenge and choices are replaced with easy, fast level, decreased interaction, less grouping outside of dungeons, raids and other events that are made for groups.
And the focus to have a wide area of player types has not changed to only suits players who wants fast highest level, lowering the impact of player skill and personal progression. Making the "correct build" and best gear, much more important then personal choice and style.

* Should not High end hard encounters be one of many important goals in ESO? When you reach vet12, should you not be, sorry, good enough for the very challenging encounter?

I am worried if most can just level fast...then of course a lot will fail in the HARDEST encounters. What is the next step? Make that easier too? Then easier again?



Explanation of my concern with these changes and where they lead.

I am concerned that if ESO gets too easy, it becomes very "boring" quickly.
Even for players who wants easy, will be bored after a while, unless there is new easy stuff. It does not sound like ESO anymore.

This is my concern as a long-term-player.


In the short term, making things easy, might make some players happy, but in the long term, ESO looses its unique value, just like other MMOs who tries to copy WoW.

This does not make ESO "better" or "worse".
IT does change the value of a long term game and makes it into a short term game. Where only new content to highest level, Hardest current encounter will have any value to play long term. Unless that gets easy too....

For the long term player, ESO have a GREAT REPLY VALUE. Even starting in the same alliance! Because of the added content thats on the roadmap. Making a new char will be a new experience!

ESO gets easy at vet level
By making the current world easier, will make Vet 1-6 areas into only "grinding exp", "collecting skyshards/skillpoints" and getting achievements. Very soon, this will remove any interest at all to try new builds and PLAY them.


Question:
If leveling is made easier for all (not just those who already figured it out?)
When all players reach highest level. Tries the hardest encounters and fails, over and over, because it takes practice, teamwork, understanding of what to do when in different situations, to beat a dungeon. We learn that from very early levels in the instanced dungeons.

* Will the hardest encounters get easier too?

ESO is fantastic regarding tactics in dungeons. You can watch as many videos as you want. Know everything about the encounter. And still fail.

Your skill, teamwork, utilizing all that ESO have to offer, THAT beats the hard encounters. Execution matters, Not only your level....

As a next step, What else will get easy? And after that?

You do not have to wait for high lvl to "raid". You get it from start with instanced dungeons! Including pretty much what a high end raid needs. Good group, teamwork, tactics and utilize all you can, to beat the boss. Next boss, different tactics. Its amazing!

With the easy road....this part might not even be used. Players gets level to fast?


Vet areas to hard?
Will not the incoming addition of some skill/ability/whatnot to vet players, give us vets more choices and getting the edge SOME vet feels when playing?

As well as tier gear pieces seams to drop a lot, its not to hard to get a decent tier set. Helps more then one think.

* Is making "mobs" easier, more exp, a good way to get a player up to the hard encounters, if said player have problems in vet 1-3?

* ESO have a fantastic feature. Personal skill does make as big impact as a powerful skill.. Please do not take that away.

On EU server, in Vet 1-3 zones, I hear a lot of things in zone chat, weird, strange even, asking for groups or assistance with events are common, questions where is a quest, along with sales.
I also talk to a lot of people I do not know. (I cant help it)
What I do not hear, is complaints about mobs are to hard.

Just because I don't hear it, is of course only 1 feedback from a lot.


Veteran areas and events
When I got vet 1, and started to exploring the areas, it did get harder, but I learned, adapted and having a fantastic experience because I need to play even more to do things. This helped me advancing my personal skill to take on harder encounters. I had to look at all possible skills and anything available to improvise in this new veteran world. I got better!

It DID take time, but just like starting ESO, had to learn new things. So the game is not over at lvl 50, a new area begins!

I progressed my own player skill!!

* Is it not what veteran players should do? If defeated, veterans have the experience to know when to back off, bring a friend, use a different tactic, skills, weapons, etc.

* Why remove this?

In ESO, like other MMOs with hard encounters, it does take time, practice, failures, good groups, bad groups, to get to that "elite" level, with a team who can beat these encounters.

Players who speed trough, simply do not get that experience.
Dont take my word for it. Plenty proof of that in any game where leveling is easy.

The "jump" from lvl 50 to vet 1, is very good!
* You almost feel like its a new game. You have to improve!
* You learn a lot you did not think you could do. You learn when soloing how different skills, builds, tactics etc is effective against different encounters.

* When you get vet 1, you REALLY get a "Veteran" advancement, where you keep advancing your personal skill, and not just stop at 50. This is an AMAZING feature I have not seen lately in any MMO.

The "skill" that you can not pick in the game at vet areas, is the experience you get in your personal skill. You level yourself!


Solo vet 1-6 areas (2 other alliances)
It is very doable to solo at Vet 1-6 areas, but you DO have to adapt.
It IS harder alone, but doable. You are now a veteran! It did take me a while to progress my own skill as well as picking new skills to use and how to use them.

I am still keep getting better and I still loose battles.
Just as promised in Zenimax Information about Vet areas.

All encounters in Tamriel can be dangerous.
Getting defeated in veteran area, alone, wanting to solo. Yes, it will be harder, but not nearly impossible. Slow, yes. By choice.

* If you get as much exp soloing as you do grouping, is that not a HUGE step from getting people to grouping up?

Just by grouping with 1 person, you can do a lot more and get not double exp but a lot more since you are 2.

Yes, it doesn't go very fast to kill 1 mob by one. But should it? Quests are fine. Dolmen events and bosses encounters are huge exp. With the mechanics in ESO, you do not need to group with anyone. Just be at the events, do your part and get lots of exp.

* Are there not more solo targeted quests/something coming for vet players?

* I dont understand how the solution to make Vet area mobs easy, will make anything other then demands for more easy, even more easy. Which leads to less personal skill cause of less practice. In my case anyway.

* Zenimax might already be working on this, but Solo main quest type might be a better solution? More exp there, but at the same time interesting, fun, and hard encounters, which can be anything just like the storylines? Solve riddles or anything new fun content for soloing?

* More solo content sure! But are Zenimax changing ESO to an easier game for everyone so player who solo gets more exp?


Fast leveling?

* When is "fast leveling" an issue in ESO? If there is, how did those at Vet 12 get there?
* Some players are Vet 8-12. Not many though but that's just natural?
* Is there any problem with level fast? Some players get Vet 12 in 2-3 weeks? No matter my personal view on that. If some players can, and some can not. Why should the game change and not the player figure out how?
* Are there not players complaining about leveling to fast?

* If you choose to level fast, should you not at least have to figure out how? And sorry, if you level fast, don't use skills much, HOW is the solution to lower the mobs? Will not this only lead to more easy? then more?

* What about the group of players who wants a hard encounter? The rare items that is announced?

* Cyrodiil and exp.
Cyrodiil gives massive exp, even at vet levels. But how you want to play is a core of ESO, and if you do not wish to pvp, you dont have too.
But for fast exp......

Could the complaints for more exp, be because we have not had a working Cyrodiil for a while?
I am sure, Cyro will work. And the big large group battles starts again. Will not this fast exp make the "slow" leveling a none problem with the current game?


Grouping
* It is not only natural that Vet6-12, are not full of players. ESO really gives a challenge when it comes to being a skilled player who can do the hard encounters like trials and raids. Some players are naturally good. Yes,
But in ESO is does take time, practice, failures, good groups, bad groups, to get to that "elite" level, with a team who can beat these encounters.

* When more and more reaches vet 12, will not the grouping at higher level get solved, just like it starting to get now at vet 1-3?

* Is making "mobs" easier, more exp, a good way to get a player up to the hard encounters, if said player have problems in vet 1-3?

I am sure that fast levelers early in game, had a lot of problems with bugs, etc.
Most Vet 1-3 have very few problems. Phasing is much better. Sure, a quest here and there or a broken skill. Normal bugs that are expected in MMOs.

On EU server, the vet 1-3 are crowded. Zonechat goes out all the time for grouping for all kinds of things. Not just dungeons. Even heard looking for someone to grind exp with.

Grouping with just 1 friend/player makes Vet 1-6 areas much easier to do many things. It is still a challenge but 1+1 = 3 in power! More players realize this and are seeking groups, even without the group tool.

Interaction in EU group Vet 1-3 zones is FAR better now then just a month ago.

I love exploring. While I run around, getting killed, I see more and more "groups" of 2 or more people going together somewhere. Grouping is building up. Maybe not much, but it is growing.

I think, MMO players the past years simply been too dependent on a group tool, to put them in a group. This is starting to change!

Check zone chat logs for EU server.
Vet 1-3 areas: "Looking to group for questing and leveling", is a fairly new, but growing question between players and creating even more interaction by Zone chat alone. Players finds new friends, possible new guild members.

This is an addition to "Dolmen X is up!" Looking for group for Dungeon X", which is more and more common. Even players asking for help with something is getting more common.

MORE players are starting to interact in several ways and not just depend on a group tool/game mechanic to do it for them (which is of course needed as an option, as well).

The problem to get groups
MORE players are starting to interact in several ways and not just depend on a group tool/game mechanic to do it for them. The tool is important though, but wasn't the "problem" been phasing, lvl 1-50 is very much solo if you wish?

More players starting to see how good and FUN it is to group up.

This is growing!
This is today ALMOST unique to ESO.
Other MMOs are built with tools to not have to say a single word to anyone, completely removing interaction.


Effect of the difference in lvl 50 mobs and vet1-6 mobs
I also became a better player! Not at once, but after I adapted and learned to use weapon swap MUCH better then I thought I would be. At vet 1, I learned to use weapon swap in a fight. Something I did not think I could master. Now I can, and improve!

I progressed my own player skill!!

In Vet 1 - 6 zones, (note, not talking about Graglorn or any other Vet 6+ encounters!) I learned to utilize different NEW skills I did not have before, understand them better and it improved my playing experience in ESO A LOT!

The current Vet areas also have the side effect already to group up with other players, even without using the group tool.
Interaction is FAR better in ESO then any other MMO, who only depends on a group tool.


When I got vet 1. with the current system, created almost a new game!

Exploring the world will still be there, but if its easy and not dangerous, then it removes the explore experience as well.

To make Vet 1-6 areas too easy, will make ESO boring, after you experienced Lvl 1-50 for the FIRST time.
Instead of having to improve, you get the same....kill alot, why group?


Please ADD these features WITHOUT taking away one of the main unique features ESO offers, by keeping Tamriel a dangerous, changing, never know what will happen, type of world.

This is my concern as a long-term-player.
In the short term, making EVERYTHING (not all) easy, might make some players happy, but in the long term, ESO looses its unique value, just like other MMOs who tries to copy WoW.

Zenimax never promised Tamriel to be hard in any way. (what I know).
Right now, you do look over your shoulder all the time when you play. That is very ESO. Please do not take this away.

Concerned, long term player

Darzil wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Dear ZO, please, add a new title for those, who completed Veteran content before this changes
"True veteran" or just "True"
Coz it's damn unfair!

Presumably after first making sure they did no vp grinding in the exploit spots, gained no loot drops before those were nerfed, and making sure they did all the tough stuff solo rather than in a group ?

Am I need to post here again screenshot of my vr12 character with 12 days /played and with Tamriel Hero and Explorer titles?