Nothing for the sword and board crowd, eh?

Eivar wrote: »

Two Handed
Cleave: decent AoE + DoT, not really a boss fight kind of skill
Critical Charge: great gap closer, fantastic for mobility in a fight, not going to necessarily provide a lot of dps. Utility.
Uppercut: Good dmg long "cast time" for a melee ability, worth is debatable as a dmg skill.
Reverse Slash: arguably the best Execute in the game as it only gets stronger as the fight goes on, but at the beginning to mid boss fight not great.
Momentum: Self buff, very nice one though.

I use two-handed weapons.
Critical Charge & Stampede (idk about the other morph) are bugged.

a) They do not benefit from at least 2 buffs/bonuses one of which is the Hunding Rage set. (i have the screenshots from the combat log)

b) Immobilise seems that doesn't work either. 3.5 seconds the Stampede IV should provide, I doubt is more than 1 second.

c) If the Critical Charge damage was scaling as the Uppercut does, is missing damage.

Why I say that.

Critical Charge base is 14. Uppercut base is 24. That is 71.1% more damage.

With V6 BLUE Great Sword against V5 bear outside Rift.

When Critical Charge is hitting (remind you is CRIT Damage), is doing 384.
The Uppercut normal attack is 460. However the later critical damage at 690
(light attack Critical damage is 224).

So the Uppercut has 79.7% MORE damage when Crits than Stampede. Which should be doing around 403 instead of 384.
(The above test was without Hunding Rage set on, because it doesn't work with Stampede and needed to do a comparison between Hunding Rage, vanilla and Death Wind).

Talking about Death Wind, surprisingly I saw it lowers light & heavy attacks compared to not having the trait.

I hope this isn't the end product because this is bordering on pedestrian at best. The stamina system itself and its management needs addressing.

ScardyFox wrote: »

I hope this isn't the end product because this is bordering on pedestrian at best. The stamina system itself and its management needs addressing.

It needs to be adjusted in small steps one by one to not break other builds. Or give the clothies a stamina dump that is better then whetever they currently use.
Why this has taken so long to fix, and how it got through beta is another matter entirely. Im thinking it is due to veteran ranks not intended from the start and was rushed to release causing untested logic. VR seem to have an entirely new set of mechanics then 1-50.
Fixing this will certainly take time, but Im glad they at least acknowledge it now.

Tobiz wrote: »

Why this has taken so long to fix, and how it got through beta is another matter entirely. Im thinking it is due to veteran ranks not intended from the start and was rushed to release causing untested logic.

VR seem to have an entirely new set of mechanics then 1-50.

This is a fairer statement then I care to admit. I word it as such because after all this time, I have an over abundance of cynicism and vitriol at this point. It's not easy being a stamina based NB/werewolf. Nevertheless, there is certainly validity in what you said. I just hope my patience holds out as my stubborn tanks (which is what kept me stamina based) are starting to run dry.

That said... speaking of werewolves

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Hope you guys spoke with veracity when you said a werewolf outline was coming next week.

Valn wrote: »

I want to know if heavy armor with 1h and shield stamina build will be improved in any way. And I use it primarily for tanking, yet it has almost no dps. Id like to see a bit more dps for 1h and shield

Im not sure I follow your thinking, sword'n'boards only melee damage output was nerfed and thus it is not meant as a high dps option.
What could happen is they fix heavy armor to be more sustain, thus making you outlast the enemy, but fighting behind a shield will probably never be a high dps solution.
I go dual wield for dps. I like it for immersion, that I just swap the shield for an other weapon and off I go. Its not through the roof dps like the stick'n'dress, but it does get me through questing.

i cant believe people think "heavy armor" is better then medium armor, the crit alone is alot better, what usefull things do you have some % more recieved healing wow.. if you use light armor, you just enchant 2 rings for armor, and you are pretty much same resistance as a heavy armor and higher magic resistance, and all the reductions you get in magica is way better then what heavy armor offers,

"resolve" increases spell and physical damage reduction by 3% for every armor pice, this is pretty much worthless since you still cant cap spell resist and, you can easlity reach defence soft cap with few pieces of jewelry, or one of the 10 armor buffs available to everyone...
constitution.. wow 28% you dont say much improve, , other then the fact you soft cap health recovery at about 50 and all this regen gives you is 8 extra hp recovery ! woowwwwww , in battle that is about.. 200 hp more in 2 minutes.. that is a serious joke as far as hp recovery is..

"juggernaut" 7% power increase 1% for every armor piece, so with normal meele swings you get 5 damage more per hit, omggggg, such balance PLEASE DONT BuFF HEAVY ARMOR,
one crit from medium armor passives or light armor would do more damage, then you could in 1 minute of swinging your weapon with increased weapon damage..

"bracing" decrease cost of blocking, here we go one real tanking ability that is actually worth putting points in,

"rapid mending" 1% per piece healing increase, this is a joke, i mean really? just waste of skill points, so lets say you got healed for 500, a 7% increase is 35 hp.
are you kidding me? this isnt even worth putting point in, there are armor sets that offer 10% healing increase...

so lets say you are templar with heavy armor vs templar with light armor, take 10% chance to heal for 900 hp, or have a boost of recieving 35hp on heal.. hmmm seems like a really tough choice..

now lets bring the main point here, since most of the skills used in pvp are 90% magic, you are actually more tanky with light armor! you soft cap spell resists so easy with light, you dont even have to upgrade your light armor to cap spell resist..

but hey, lets all focus on medium armor, !


i think heavy armor needs sustain, trow away the 7% healing increase and give us something like regenerate stamina and magica for every 5% of damage recieved or something, that way we can tank, tank and keep going instead of tank tank, run out stam magica , slowly die! the only benefits of heavy armor at the moment is , higher physical defence and reduce blocking cost, other bonuses are so minute that it clearly favors medium and light armor as the choices currently

I am currently a level 44 Night Blade bow centric player. Probable the one skill that kept me subscribed and enduring the start up problems was aspiring to get the skill SNIPE.In AvA it is what I do.Shoot my bow from range . I read the following about some changes to bow usage being considered:
"Bow: Poison Arrow

Poison Arrow’s damage-over-time has been increased by 50% overall.


Bow: Snipe

Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
Snipe’s maximum range will be reduced from 40 meters to 35 meters.
Snipe’s minimum range will be reduced from 20 meters to 10 meters"

REACTIONS:
-a bow users main shot should have been a snare not poison.Like casters bow users don't want their target to mele them.The analogy is DK's and their standard first used skill..... DARK TALONS(IMMOBILIZED/STUNNED FOR 4 SECONDS). That's what a ranged bow fighter wants.....TO STOP THE TARGET FROM MELEING THEM. Improving POISON ARROW is a step in the right direction(sort of) but a very powerful snare is needed for an opener with a bow....far more than a stronger poison arrow.

-"Reducing SNIPE'S maximum range from 40 meters to 35 meters".
I cannot state how negative my reaction to this suggestion is and not be banned.I cannot think of a single thing that would most likely cause me to leave the game than castrating this skill. The single skill that gives any meaning to the bow vs a casting staff is the bows range.Reducing SNIPE's range makes the bow a pitiful joke few would use....including me.
-"Reducing SNIPE's cast time from 3 seconds to 2 seconds" (takes a breath). A bow user does not think of them selves as a caster........EVER. We shoot...we do not have cast time. Reducing SNIPE's shot time to 2 seconds is a step in the right direction.Since the term "casting time" was used and the devs seem to be want to think of bow shooting as another form of casting.....lets look at Sorc spell casting time's shall we ? Most are instant.The longest cast time I could find was 1.5 seconds.Does that put into perspective lowering bow SNIPE "cast time" to 2 seconds ?

Summary:
1)There are players who love to shoot the bow.They are the players who play archers in any mmog they play.They have a passion for the weapon.It can and should have a special nitch in game play. RANGE is one of those attributes that differentiates...that gives a reason why for it's use.
2)Like other ranged weapon users, crowd control is important. Sorcerer's have cc skills. Heck DK's(of all classes) have a very powerful cc. Yet the bow user.....or the Night Blade class skills......no strong cc. Why ?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Folks, we understand that everyone would like to see changes made to their preferred armor type or weapon immediately. Voicing disappointment that what you're looking for improvements to wasn't mentioned in an update post is totally fair, but we ask that you please understand that balance changes are part of an ongoing, never-ending effort and we implement them carefully and in small steps.

We will continue to do our very best to keep you updated on what is coming, and what we're working toward.

Too slow. Thats my opinion. One month ago you post "Nightblade update" and you assure us that Nightblade get some improvments. And you have do nothing. Fixing two broken since beta skills (on my opinion still not worth using them after 1.2) and nerfing siphoning attacks, thats one month work. If you continue walking in such small steps, in 2015 (if game wont die) we still be crying about magica>stamina... You want my thoughts?

I dont know how many people working on stamina improvments, but its not enough even for one person. Damage changes on stam skills its not even start for improvment on stamina build. Why? Because you whole game is favoring magica skills. No Ultimate for stamina or even stamina-related, all scale with magica. No real stamina utility skills, item sets favoring magica over stamina users, and damage of skills...

Why ranged deal more damage then melee? Just tested, resto staff deal 160dmg with light attack when 2h weapon only 110. This is part of problem with stamina build. Using light or heavy attacks its just waste of time (especially in PvP), cos its little damage and risk of getting hit by mob/player. Its actually high risk - almost no reward, when you fight as melee. On VR6+ i can solo bosses and dolmens, with resto-kiting style of fight. Can i do same thing with 2h or 1h+S ? dont think so.

Spell damage >>>> Weapon Damage
Weapon Damage soft cap i can reach without problems (why its reduced in Cyrodill? idk) but its worthless. Spell damage just better scale with skills and if you want be top dps, you choose skill that deals more dmg not less. Thats why everyone using magica. Weapon damge have less value then spell damage.

High risk.
When magica user is out of magica, he or she can block, dodge or just kite while waiting for pot/regen and then again dps again. Stamina user without stamina will just die, unable to block or break cc. That why stamina based skills should deal MORE damage then magica skills (especially ranged ones). Risk of using stamina is not equal to reward.

Idea of weapons.
Id like to know what is your conception for weapons. You think 1h+s should be only for tanking and not for dps? Why? Right now biggest problem have 2h i think, its neither sustain dps nor burst. Best hitting skill have cast time(melee and cast times, just great...) and can be easily dodged or blocked. I think players will choose instant skills over channel ones, especially in game with interrupts.

Mace, hammer and tooltips.
I never seen player with a mace in pvp, and if i see one, he will be likely a werewolf too. Tooltips in ESO just sucks. What is heavily armored enemies? Someone with shield? Or maybe naked sorc with bound armor? Id like to know. This is one of many find out by yourself.
"At this time, I don't have any information on the impenetrable trait. This would be a great thing to discuss on the forums with other players. There are plenty of third party websites that would have this information." This is answer from support. Fix tooltips and make them clear for us. Im tired of guessing.

Block
Change blocking to 180° or less. That will strike especially DK who can tank whole zerg and staff users who cast spells while blocking.

Medium Armor
Wind Walker change is good, even if only 1/2% reduction but other skill need rework too. Agility speed bonus is just weak. It should give cc break and roll dogde reduction cost, or chance to aviod projectile. Armor penetration should depends on weapon not armor, so concentration copy is bad plan i think.

Heavy Armor
First, you should be change hard cap to 75% and soft to 50%, followed by increase overall armor rating and nerf magical based armor buffs like bound armor.
Constitution is worthless right now. It should be flat wepon and spell glance chance, (4% per piece) glance will reduce damage by 80% or so. Juggernaut should give just flat melee damage bonus (3% per piece). Rapid Mending should restore 0,2% health and stamina per piece, for each block, dodge or parry.

Armor Skills
Right now i see more users of these skills with robes and sticks rather then heavy armor. Change just how it works. Immovable should give x armor, x spell res and 1.5 sec per piece of havy armor equipped. Same thing with rest skills.

Vamp >>>> Werewolf
With stamina change you really need to work with wolf skills. Vampire have better skills, better passives that work all the time and unique abilitty to humiliate DK talon spammers with feeding on them. Wolf get nothing except super expensive ultimate and chance of being perma CCed to death. If cost of change to warewolf is so high, wolf should be unstopable killing machine, not a puppy. Also some changes to passives may help stamina users. You can change them to something like emperor skill line. Small portion without transformation and big while in wolf form.

Undaunted
I think you can completly rework that skill line, to be more stamina based, adventurer skill line with utilitty skills (morphs can be split 50/50 to magica or stamina cost and scaling) and passive.

DB and Thievs Guild
Just make them stamina based.

Small steps are for children. We need revolution.

Block should cost 0 stamina. Instead, block damage mitigation should depend on max stamina and weapon/shield used, blocking should only work 180 degrees and disallow all abilities except melee range ones.

This would result in better magicka vs stamina balance and would support stamina builds.

It's a good start. They simply don't want to change EVERYTHING in a single patch. They're slowly implementing changes to minimize the impact on game balance (which is already flimsy) and mostly to avoid even more game breaking bugs (which is what happens when you fiddle with too many skills).
They're on the right path, it'll just take time. Like the Templar improvements, we'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for listening.

So I see a LOT of people suggesting move Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break to a "separate" resource.

This a TERRIBLE idea.

Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break would more commonly be used by a Stamina build than a Magicka build.

Having it on a separate resource does absolutely nothing for balance as now the almight Maigcka build get free Stamina points to dump towards even more DPS PLUS the increased survivability of the new resource.

This in the long run screws a Stamina build as they NEED that increased Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break cause they ARE in the mix of combat needing to use it.

You can go forth and greatly increase the damage a Stamina build does but this again just favors Magicka builds as its just another resource dump for them on top of their already good DPS.

Maybe you wrote it and I somhow missed it, but when are these changes going to the live servers?
And do you have any intention to finally make it so Immovable can only be used by people wearing at least one piece of heavy armor?

Cogo wrote: »

Mortosk wrote: »

I thought it was a pretty reasonable suggestion.

Light armor gets pure +Magicka regen/reduction
Medium armor gets pure +Stamina regen/reduction
Heavy armor should get half the regen/reduction of each.

That makes all 3 armor types unique and equal when it comes to resource management.

Um, Heavy armor is unique already. No stamina/magika what so ever have anything to do with heavy armor.

Heavy armor: Biggest protection, Increased armor and SPELL RESIST (this is a big one), Health recovery, even weapon damage bonus. Small bonus I agree and that can be discussed, increased healing. Even the 5% makes a difference for a tank. And the HUGE 20% reduction in BLOCK. There you have a stamina reduction already.

No regen of stamina and magika on heavy armor. You only make heavy armor to powerful then. We do NOT want that circus. Those attributes don't belong on heavy.

They are unique the way they are. Tweaking their stats, that's another thing.


What I can understand is a question from heavy armor front damage builds. You do get protection, so that's useful for any damage dealer, as well as the resist and health regen.

The weapon damage buff you get from heavy armor, might be to small?
I don't know. But in the same question, I wonder if heavy armor should be the main "buffer" for damage weapons? I think its ok as it is. But can be discussed.

For example, as a pure tank with 0 skills in any damage ability, i SUCK at even mobs 1-50. BUT in Coldharbour, I was expecting to not be able to kill anything unless I grouped up with someone.

Most mobs in there seamed to be Daedra and undead. The 9% extra damage from the fighter guild skill line (Didnt have it). When I put skill point in there, I had no problem killing most things! Felt a lot more damage then 9%!

All 3 armors should have unique differences, and not "mirror" each other. This is how you build so many different builds, isn't it?

What does a melee DPS templar that wants to use his class abilities use? They all use Magicka as their resource.

Does he use Medium Armor and get a bunch of Stamina Regeneration he can't use?

Does he use Light Armor and fight in close quarters using melee range class abilities like Puncturing strikes and get shred to pieces?

Or, does he use at least 5 Heavy Armor for the extra protection in melee range with a few light pieces for SOME resource regeneration/reduction?

That reduces his resource regeneration/reduction from any LIGHT pieces he wears to a very small percentage. Consider the fact that all his abilities all cost more than 300 magicka, some over 400 magicka, because they are all insanely expensive for some reason.

Now consider he has no skills that return magicka to him. All he has is his resource reductions from any Light pieces he is forced to wear.

This is why I think it would be advantageous to add SOME magicka regen to Heavy Armor. It just has to have something that helps magicka for the sake of Templar class abilities.

The reason I say give it half the stamina regen of medium and half the magicka regen of light is because some people use Heavy with Stamina abilities too. Tanks like you for example. Don't tanks like to have resources available too? I mean like a taunt button or something. Would kinda suck if a Templar tank was trying to use Puncture or something to get threat back and couldn't cause he had no Stamina left. I could personally care less about the Stamina though.

Mortosk wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Mortosk wrote: »

I thought it was a pretty reasonable suggestion.

Light armor gets pure +Magicka regen/reduction
Medium armor gets pure +Stamina regen/reduction
Heavy armor should get half the regen/reduction of each.

That makes all 3 armor types unique and equal when it comes to resource management.

Um, Heavy armor is unique already. No stamina/magika what so ever have anything to do with heavy armor.

Heavy armor: Biggest protection, Increased armor and SPELL RESIST (this is a big one), Health recovery, even weapon damage bonus. Small bonus I agree and that can be discussed, increased healing. Even the 5% makes a difference for a tank. And the HUGE 20% reduction in BLOCK. There you have a stamina reduction already.

No regen of stamina and magika on heavy armor. You only make heavy armor to powerful then. We do NOT want that circus. Those attributes don't belong on heavy.

They are unique the way they are. Tweaking their stats, that's another thing.


What I can understand is a question from heavy armor front damage builds. You do get protection, so that's useful for any damage dealer, as well as the resist and health regen.

The weapon damage buff you get from heavy armor, might be to small?
I don't know. But in the same question, I wonder if heavy armor should be the main "buffer" for damage weapons? I think its ok as it is. But can be discussed.

For example, as a pure tank with 0 skills in any damage ability, i SUCK at even mobs 1-50. BUT in Coldharbour, I was expecting to not be able to kill anything unless I grouped up with someone.

Most mobs in there seamed to be Daedra and undead. The 9% extra damage from the fighter guild skill line (Didnt have it). When I put skill point in there, I had no problem killing most things! Felt a lot more damage then 9%!

All 3 armors should have unique differences, and not "mirror" each other. This is how you build so many different builds, isn't it?

What does a melee DPS templar that wants to use his class abilities use? They all use Magicka as their resource.

Does he use Medium Armor and get a bunch of Stamina Regeneration he can't use?

Does he use Light Armor and fight in close quarters using melee range class abilities like Puncturing strikes and get shred to pieces?

Or, does he use at least 5 Heavy Armor for the extra protection in melee range with a few light pieces for SOME resource regeneration/reduction?

That reduces his resource regeneration/reduction from any LIGHT pieces he wears to a very small percentage. Consider the fact that all his abilities all cost more than 300 magicka, some over 400 magicka, because they are all insanely expensive for some reason.

Now consider he has no skills that return magicka to him. All he has is his resource reductions from any Light pieces he is forced to wear.

This is why I think it would be advantageous to add SOME magicka regen to Heavy Armor. It just has to have something that helps magicka for the sake of Templar class abilities.

The reason I say give it half the stamina regen of medium and half the magicka regen of light is because some people use Heavy with Stamina abilities too. Tanks like you for example. Don't tanks like to have resources available too? I mean like a taunt button or something. Would kinda suck if a Templar tank was trying to use Puncture or something to get threat back and couldn't cause he had no Stamina left. I could personally care less about the Stamina though.

regin or cost reduction has too be added too heavy amour period skills are to expensive too be able too use them in heavy amour. as a scorc tank i can use my defensive ability 4 times in a row before im out of magic i can imagine how it is for Templar. i have 2k magic already