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1k armor vs 2k armor

  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Bashev wrote: »
    I did a similar tests 3 days after the the early access. I was lvl 21-22 and I concluded that there is no point from armor. The only way to mitigate damage is by blocking. That is why I decided to wear light armor and to develop my cloth crafting skills. When I shared this with my guild-mates they all laughed at me and told me that I will change my mind in the higher levels. But I continued to play with cloth and shield. That was the second best decision that I made in the game. The best one is still that I rolled a DK.

    I'm not sure level 20 is a good point for conclusive testing.

    If armor provides 1% protection for every 50 points of it, and you have ~700 armor at level 20, then that's just 14% protection, even if everything works as intended. It is easy to come to the conclusion that armor is not worth it at that point. But as the armor cap increases, so does the protection it offers.
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Sharee wrote: »
    I'm not sure level 20 is a good point for conclusive testing.

    If armor provides 1% protection for every 50 points of it, and you have ~700 armor at level 20, then that's just 14% protection, even if everything works as intended. It is easy to come to the conclusion that armor is not worth it at that point. But as the armor cap increases, so does the protection it offers.

    According to me it doesn't matter when I did the test because the logic is the same. If at lvl 21 I am hard capped at 800 and this means that at lvl 21 I should have 50% reduction. If at vr 12 I am hard capped at 2500 it will be again 50% reduction. The reduction scales with the soft and hard cap scales. It is not a fixed formula where 50 points of armor gives you 1%. At lvl 21 if the hard cap is 800 that means 16 points of armor gives you 1% damage mitigation while at Vr12 because the hard cap now is 2500, that means 50 points gives 1%.

    Another terrible fact is that the mitigation from both armor and spell resist do not have a good synergy with the blocking mechanics. I forgot what actually were my numbers but you can easily test it by yourself. For example if you block 100 damage naked, you will mitigate around 70% of it with all passives for blocking include it. That means you will be damaged only for 30. At the same time if you use heavy armor, you will be damaged for 25. I cannot remember very well the numbers as I said, but that was the mechanic.
    Because I can!
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    I'm not sure level 20 is a good point for conclusive testing.

    If armor provides 1% protection for every 50 points of it, and you have ~700 armor at level 20, then that's just 14% protection, even if everything works as intended. It is easy to come to the conclusion that armor is not worth it at that point. But as the armor cap increases, so does the protection it offers.

    According to me it doesn't matter when I did the test because the logic is the same. If at lvl 21 I am hard capped at 800 and this means that at lvl 21 I should have 50% reduction. If at vr 12 I am hard capped at 2500 it will be again 50% reduction. The reduction scales with the soft and hard cap scales. It is not a fixed formula where 50 points of armor gives you 1%. At lvl 21 if the hard cap is 800 that means 16 points of armor gives you 1% damage mitigation while at Vr12 because the hard cap now is 2500, that means 50 points gives 1%.

    Are you sure about the bolded part?

    Because you tested it at level 20 and concluded, to quote you, "it is not worth it at that point" If the reduction scaled with the caps, then you would have concluded that ~700 armor provides 50% physical protection, which would be worth it, IMHO.

    The fact your testing at level 20 indicated armor is worthless leads me to believe the reduction does not scale with level.
  • Bashev
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    You can make the test for you. I just said that I did it at lvl 20-21 when I started the game and I was exploring the game mechanics. Now I am VR12 and I play with 7 light armors (900 armor) and a shield and I can tank 4-5 players in pvp for more than 90 seconds. Also I soloed all the veteran content. I leveled all my weapon skills in Craglorn by soloing group of mobs with no armor because it breaks so fast that I was lazy to repair it.
    Because I can!
  • crislevin
    crislevin
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    dragnier wrote: »
    Testing on the PTS w/ v12 character.

    Baseline: Naked with no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 336 dmg per light attack.

    0 armor = 0% mitigation

    LIght armor w/ passives but no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 295 dmg per light attack.

    850 armor = 13% mitigation

    LIght armor w/ passives + shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 286 dmg per light attack.

    1027 armor = 15% mitigation

    Medium armor w/ passives but no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 272 dmg per light attack.

    1285 armor = 19% mitigation

    Medium armor w/ passives + shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 262 dmg per light attack.

    1462 armor = 22% mitigation

    Heavy armor w/ passives but no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 237 dmg per light attack.

    1933 armor = 30% mitigation(this is approx. where overcharging begins)

    Heavy armor w/ passives + shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 231 dmg per light attack.

    2037 armor = 32% mitigation

    In full heavy w/ shield + passives + 1 armor buffs (1150 from Unstoppable IV)

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage during buff: took 200 dmg per light attack.

    2614 armor = 40% mitigation(That's an extra 8% mitigation for roughly 11 sec)

    In full heavy w/ shield + passives + 2 armor buffs (1150 from Unstoppable IV and 1750 from Shadow Barrier passive for NB, though other classes have similar buffs available.)

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage during that 4 sec: took 168 dmg per light attack.

    3305 armor = 50% mitigation(That's an extra 10% mitigation for 4 sec)

    In full heavy w/ shield + passives + 3 armor buffs (1150 from Unstoppable IV, 1750 from Shadow Barrier passive for NB though other classes have similar buffs available, and 2500 from Bone Shield.)

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage during that 4 sec: took 168 dmg per light attack.

    4094 armor = 50% mitigation(Proves 50% mitigation is the hard cap)

    Based on the above math, every 66 armor = roughly 1% mitigation.

    Well, that's seems to be okay. 1k vs 2k is about 50 damages.

    I can't say it's a lot in absolute numbers, proportionally, it's a reasonable difference, 13 vs 30%.

    How do you guys propose to buff heavy armor?

    Note light armours should not be nerfed, it's hard to survive as is for sorcs. Don't use robe dk as example of what should be done to the robe.
    Edited by crislevin on June 18, 2014 10:58AM
  • Sharee
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Now I am VR12 and I play with 7 light armors (900 armor) and a shield and I can tank 4-5 players in pvp for more than 90 seconds

    How much of the damage you take in PvP is actually mitigated by armor?

    Unless you get jumped by a NB, it's 90% talons, banners, shards, mage's fury, impulse...
    Edited by Sharee on June 18, 2014 11:20AM
  • Bashev
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    Sharee wrote: »
    How much of the damage you take in PvP is actually mitigated by armor?

    Unless you get jumped by a NB, it's 90% talons, banners, shards, mage's fury, impulse...

    Yep you are right that most of the damage is from the skills that you said. But there are a lot of players who use light attacks of bows, daggers, swords, and before the nerf bash...
    dragnier wrote: »
    Testing on the PTS w/ v12 character.

    Baseline: Naked with no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 336 dmg per light attack.

    0 armor = 0% mitigation

    LIght armor w/ passives but no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 295 dmg per light attack.

    850 armor = 13% mitigation

    LIght armor w/ passives + shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 286 dmg per light attack.

    1027 armor = 15% mitigation

    Medium armor w/ passives but no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 272 dmg per light attack.

    1285 armor = 19% mitigation

    Medium armor w/ passives + shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 262 dmg per light attack.

    1462 armor = 22% mitigation

    Heavy armor w/ passives but no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 237 dmg per light attack.

    1933 armor = 30% mitigation(this is approx. where overcharging begins)

    Heavy armor w/ passives + shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 231 dmg per light attack.

    2037 armor = 32% mitigation

    In full heavy w/ shield + passives + 1 armor buffs (1150 from Unstoppable IV)

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage during buff: took 200 dmg per light attack.

    2614 armor = 40% mitigation(That's an extra 8% mitigation for roughly 11 sec)

    In full heavy w/ shield + passives + 2 armor buffs (1150 from Unstoppable IV and 1750 from Shadow Barrier passive for NB, though other classes have similar buffs available.)

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage during that 4 sec: took 168 dmg per light attack.

    3305 armor = 50% mitigation(That's an extra 10% mitigation for 4 sec)

    In full heavy w/ shield + passives + 3 armor buffs (1150 from Unstoppable IV, 1750 from Shadow Barrier passive for NB though other classes have similar buffs available, and 2500 from Bone Shield.)

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage during that 4 sec: took 168 dmg per light attack.

    4094 armor = 50% mitigation(Proves 50% mitigation is the hard cap)

    Based on the above math, every 66 armor = roughly 1% mitigation. (rounded, not exact)

    Light armor + Bone Armor = 38% mitigation for 5 sec, long enough to mitigate a power attack but keep the light armor passives... at least for PvE where you can tell a power attack is coming.

    So armor does matter vs. physical dmg, but how much of the PvE damage is actually just physical damage?

    It would be nice if you can test also when you block how the damage scales. Because I don't believe that there is a good synergy between armor and block.
    If I remember correctly, when I did my tests: if a mob hits for 1000 and you block it with 60% reduction from the block mitigation and you are hard-capped with 50% armor reduction then the mob will hit you for 200 (1000*(1-0.6)*(1-0.5)). With zero armor and block the mob will hit you for 400. So from 1000 with hard capped armor you earn only 20% reduction of the damage when you block. This is not worth it.
    Edited by Bashev on June 18, 2014 11:41AM
    Because I can!
  • Tankqull
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    crislevin wrote: »
    How do you guys propose to buff heavy armor?

    Note light armours should not be nerfed, it's hard to survive as is for sorcs. Don't use robe dk as example of what should be done to the robe.

    increase mitigation hardcap depending on the number of worn heavy armor items as 5 slot bonus. sth like 2% per slot + additional 6% when using a shield.
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • Bashev
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    Double post

    Edited by Bashev on June 18, 2014 11:41AM
    Because I can!
  • DeLindsay
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    Keep in mind something about DR and hard cap in ESO:

    Soft Cap (Overcharged) for Resistance and Armor = 30% reduction
    Hard Cap for Resistance and Armor = 50% reduction [2600 at VR10]

    It doesn't matter if you go 3K over hard cap you will never get more than a 50% damage reduction outside of class mechanics, abilities, blocking.

    To the OP, thank you for the work you did, it is probably going to help a lot of folks out to better understand damage mechanics in ESO.
  • Eylith
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    crislevin wrote: »
    Note light armours should not be nerfed, it's hard to survive as is for sorcs. Don't use robe dk as example of what should be done to the robe.

    So, DK is OK without light armor, but is too strong with it, and sorc need light armor to stay as it is now. This sound like a dead end to me :/ what changes can be done ?

    Edited by Eylith on June 18, 2014 11:46AM
    "Discuter avec un troll, c’est comme essayer de jouer aux échecs avec un pigeon. Tu as beau être très fort aux échecs, il arrive, renverse les pièces, chie sur l’échiquier et s’en va avec l’air supérieur comme s’il avait gagné." - Anonyme

  • leandro.800ub17_ESO
    leandro.800ub17_ESO
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    This bring another question. Reduce target armor by X or armor penetration is it worth it?
    If mobs hit you almost the same if you are naked then if the other way around is the same why use these enchants?
  • Nathair
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    Singular wrote: »
    Well, what else are they going to do? It's not possible to make instant bug fixes. They have to figure out what's causing the issue, then write the code, then test that, then put it in a patch.
    The game began beta testing March 26 of last year. That's fifteen months ago. The game was released as "ready" on April 4th. That's more than two months ago. That fundamental game mechanics like armour or stamina v magicka are still conspicuously unbalanced is nothing like expecting "instant bug fixes". Hell, on most of these issues we don't even have the reasonable expectation that they are doing anything or that they even consider these problems problems. Meanwhile, we pay and we wait.
    To, Too, Two. - There, Their, They're. - Were, We're, Where. - Your, You're. - Then, Than.
    Homophones, not synonyms.
  • Fuxo
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    These hard caps are just a consequence of combat design. You should use active defense (block, dodge, etc) instead of relying on passives.
  • DeLindsay
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    This bring another question. Reduce target armor by X or armor penetration is it worth it?
    If mobs hit you almost the same if you are naked then if the other way around is the same why use these enchants?

    As far as I'm aware siphon Glyphs are superior for weapons to any other type. For traits, I originally thought ArPen was gonna be huge in ESO but right now it's all about crit, crit and even MOAR CRIT.
  • DeLindsay
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    Fuxo wrote: »
    These hard caps are just a consequence of combat design. You should use active defense (block, dodge, etc) instead of relying on passives.

    All MMO's have soft/hard caps for nearly every stat. Without them players would eventually figure out how to get to 100% of this or that stat and basically turn on god mode.
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    max mitigation is 50% for anything so no god mode. God mode is achieved through skills like bone shield and mist form.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • dragnier
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    How much of the damage you take in PvP is actually mitigated by armor?

    Unless you get jumped by a NB, it's 90% talons, banners, shards, mage's fury, impulse...

    Yep you are right that most of the damage is from the skills that you said. But there are a lot of players who use light attacks of bows, daggers, swords, and before the nerf bash...
    dragnier wrote: »
    Testing on the PTS w/ v12 character.

    Baseline: Naked with no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 336 dmg per light attack.

    0 armor = 0% mitigation

    LIght armor w/ passives but no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 295 dmg per light attack.

    850 armor = 13% mitigation

    LIght armor w/ passives + shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 286 dmg per light attack.

    1027 armor = 15% mitigation

    Medium armor w/ passives but no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 272 dmg per light attack.

    1285 armor = 19% mitigation

    Medium armor w/ passives + shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 262 dmg per light attack.

    1462 armor = 22% mitigation

    Heavy armor w/ passives but no shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 237 dmg per light attack.

    1933 armor = 30% mitigation(this is approx. where overcharging begins)

    Heavy armor w/ passives + shield

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 231 dmg per light attack.

    2037 armor = 32% mitigation

    In full heavy w/ shield + passives + 1 armor buffs (1150 from Unstoppable IV)

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage during buff: took 200 dmg per light attack.

    2614 armor = 40% mitigation(That's an extra 8% mitigation for roughly 11 sec)

    In full heavy w/ shield + passives + 2 armor buffs (1150 from Unstoppable IV and 1750 from Shadow Barrier passive for NB, though other classes have similar buffs available.)

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage during that 4 sec: took 168 dmg per light attack.

    3305 armor = 50% mitigation(That's an extra 10% mitigation for 4 sec)

    In full heavy w/ shield + passives + 3 armor buffs (1150 from Unstoppable IV, 1750 from Shadow Barrier passive for NB though other classes have similar buffs available, and 2500 from Bone Shield.)

    vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage during that 4 sec: took 168 dmg per light attack.

    4094 armor = 50% mitigation(Proves 50% mitigation is the hard cap)

    Based on the above math, every 66 armor = roughly 1% mitigation. (rounded, not exact)

    Light armor + Bone Armor = 38% mitigation for 5 sec, long enough to mitigate a power attack but keep the light armor passives... at least for PvE where you can tell a power attack is coming.

    So armor does matter vs. physical dmg, but how much of the PvE damage is actually just physical damage?

    It would be nice if you can test also when you block how the damage scales. Because I don't believe that there is a good synergy between armor and block.
    If I remember correctly, when I did my tests: if a mob hits for 1000 and you block it with 60% reduction from the block mitigation and you are hard-capped with 50% armor reduction then the mob will hit you for 200 (1000*(1-0.6)*(1-0.5)). With zero armor and block the mob will hit you for 400. So from 1000 with hard capped armor you earn only 20% reduction of the damage when you block. This is not worth it.

    All of the following is done without the One Hand and Shield passives.

    Completely naked and no shield + block vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 168 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 50% mitigation while stamina holds.

    Completely naked + shield + block vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 166 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 50% mitigation while stamina holds.

    Full Light armor w/ passives + shield +block vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 143 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 57% mitigation while stamina holds.(42% increase from blocking)

    Full Heavy armor w/ passives and no shield +block vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 118 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 64% mitigation while stamina holds.

    Full Heavy armor w/ passives + shield +block vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 116 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 65% mitigation while stamina holds.(33% increase from blocking)

    With Sword and Board Passive which increases block mitigation by 20%.

    Completely naked + shield + block vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 133 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 60% mitigation while stamina holds.

    Full Light armor w/ passives + shield + block vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 115 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 65% mitigation while stamina holds.(50% increase from blocking)

    Full Light armor w/ passives + shield + block + Defensive Stance on bar vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 103 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 69% mitigation while stamina holds.(54% increase from blocking)

    Full Medium armor w/ passives + shield + block vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 105 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 68% mitigation while stamina holds.(46% increase from blocking)

    Full Medium armor w/ passives + shield + block + Defensive Stance on bar vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 94 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 71% mitigation while stamina holds.(49% increase from blocking)

    Full Heavy armor w/ passives + shield + block vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 92 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 72% mitigation while stamina holds.(40% increase from blocking)

    Full Heavy armor w/ passives + shield + block + Defensive Stance on bar vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 83 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 75% mitigation while stamina holds.(43% increase from blocking)

    Full Heavy armor w/ passives + shield + block + 1 buff (Unstoppable IV +1150 armor) vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 80 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 76% mitigation while stamina holds.(36% increase from blocking)

    Full Heavy armor w/ passives + shield + block + 1 buff (Unstoppable IV +1150 armor) + Defensive Stance on bar vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 72 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 78% mitigation while stamina holds.(38% increase from blocking)

    Full Heavy armor w/ passives + shield + block + 2 buffs (Unstoppable IV +1150 armor and Shadow Barrier +1750 armor) vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 67 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 80% mitigation while stamina holds.(30% increase from blocking)

    Full Heavy armor w/ passives + shield + block + 2 buffs (Unstoppable IV +1150 armor and Shadow Barrier +1750 armor) + Defensive Stance on bar vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 60 dmg per light attack.

    That's approx. 82% mitigation while stamina holds.(32% increase from blocking)

    So, in order to get the maximum benefit from blocking, you should never wear more than light armor. While blocking, you only lose roughly 8% -15% mitigation when wearing light armor instead of heavy.

    This doesn't sound like much until you consider some boss mechanics that can be blocked.

    For example, Stone Atronach in Aetherian Archive. This boss does a move called Big Quake which is a constant ground pound for a few seconds every so often during the fight. This can add up to between 4k and 6k damage over the duration of the move.

    Mitigating 6000 damage by 65% with light + shield + block would leave 2100 damage.

    Compared to 72% with heavy + shield + block leaving 1680 damage.

    If you leave out block:

    6000 mitigated by 13% for only 7/7 light leaves 5220 damage.

    6000 mitigated by 30% for only 7/7 heavy leaves 4200 damage.
    Edited by dragnier on June 18, 2014 12:55PM
  • Bashev
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    This is exactly what I am talking about. Thanks that you tested again. Now I can be sure that they didn't changed it and is works the same way as I did the tests.

    BTW the passive 20% from 1h/s increase the block mitigation with 10%. It is 20% from the basic 50%. So the maximum mitigation which can be reached is 11.5% from absorb magic + 20% S&B passive +10% from iron skin (DK) (Templar has 15% fro mele) + 15% Cyrodil Set + (15% passive only for range spells). This 56.5% additional for mele and 71.5% for ranged. When we multiply them with the 50% basic we have:

    Mele: 78.25% mitigation
    Ranged: 85.75% mitigation
    These numbers are for a naked character only block mitigation.
    I love to block with in pvp with 4 light/3 medium or with 7 light (loosing 15% from set which is actually 7.5% mitigation)
    Edited by Bashev on June 18, 2014 12:40PM
    Because I can!
  • NoMoreChillies
    NoMoreChillies
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    50% mitatgation for a heavy armor tank is too low.
    Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.
  • Fuxo
    Fuxo
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    The real problem is in very weak bonuses provided by heavy armor. That makes light armor superior. Here is a suggestion how to get the balance right:

    - make stamina builds viable, so people use weapon damage/crit more often, which would introduce proper rock-paper-scissors system
    - disable immovable when not wearing (x pieces of) heavy armor (this should also apply or annulment and evasion)
    - constitution passive should provide ~10-20% immunity to knockback and disabling effects
    - add weapon crit protection for heavy armor
    - weapon crit protection should not be available to light armor
  • rammstein2001pub18_ESO
    yeah i noticed how useless heavy armor is .. this games mechanics need alot of work .. this game wasn't near ready to be released but they did it anyway ..
  • Mortosk
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    Mortosk wrote: »
    Ever fight a 3 pack of V7 scamps? All it takes is one of them to get a spell off and I lose 70% of my health almost instantly. This is with 2000+ spell resist. It's very difficult to stop 3 casters from nuking you all at the same time. One of them is going to get a spell off.

    It's actually really funny getting my arse handed to me by a bunch of scamps. The devs obviously have a sadistic sense of humor.

    Dodge, dodge and dodge again. Every single of their high damage attacks get nullified if you dodge out of the red zone or at any time during their activation.

    The circle attack is a slower tick (relatively speaking). What I have trouble with is their line attacks there's no red and they are near instant and difficult to dodge in melee range and if one hits you your health bar goes bye bye.
    "Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)
  • Kulrig
    Kulrig
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    Nathair wrote: »
    The game began beta testing March 26 of last year.

    Let's not forget that it was only for specific weekends, characters were wiped in between each and every session, and they placed hard limits on what level you could reach. This basically meant that endgame, the most important part of the game in terms of its long-term survival and player retention, went entirely untested.

    Considering the money I've dumped into this game so far, I no longer really find much a difference between this and other games that have the option to buy your way into the beta because that's essentially where we're at right now.

    Anyhow, I'm in total agreement with everyone here who says the heavy armor passives need a huge buff. Light is about where it should be I think, Medium could use some love, but Heavy definitely needs a boost to the survivability it offers.
  • Mortosk
    Mortosk
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    Eylith wrote: »
    Light armor need a nerf, heavy armor need love and MR/armor cap need to be up, IMO.

    No more nerfs please. Only buffs. I want my moldy carrot, ZOS.
    "Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)
  • Zershar_Vemod
    Zershar_Vemod
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    Heavy armour is pointless you can remove all your armour leaving weapon and accessories and carry on playing as if you was geared.

    I did this for Coulharbor and a few VR maps when the rapid gear decay bug was occurring. I literally died maybe 3 times if even due to stupid mistakes in battle.

    It's a head scratcher that heavy armor is actually pointless it seems from the results posted here.
    House Nyssara (NA)
    Black Market Traders
    Order of the Lamp Post
    Thorn Brigade
    VR15 Nightblade Vampire
  • NerfEverything
    NerfEverything
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    Once again, softcaps and hardcaps that are too low are forcing people into cookie cutter builds, killing diversity, and leading to non-intuitive gameplay. How in the world does it make sense for light armor to preform better than heavy armor when blocking?

    Raise the caps!
  • Amsel_McKay
    Amsel_McKay
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    I like how we are comparing heavy with light and naked. I wonder if Medium would be best because you will hit the caps and have bonus in dodging damage...

    You can get hard capped in Medium 50% mitigation and receive 35% dodge would that not be the best?
  • dragnier
    dragnier
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    I like how we are comparing heavy with light and naked. I wonder if Medium would be best because you will hit the caps and have bonus in dodging damage...

    You can get hard capped in Medium 50% mitigation and receive 35% dodge would that not be the best?
    dragnier wrote: »
    I significantly have a problem with armor. I think they need to increase the amount of tanking a tank can do. Its a shame I can block and take damage naked and still have the same chance to survive as a fully armored tank against a v12 mob. Light armor gets incredibly way too much credit being the fact people can just go around and sport it and tank a lot of crap.

    They have made the tanks into glass tanks in this game. How do you have a glass tank? You don't and they end up dying unless they block the crap out of every mob and run from nearly every spell casted.

    I say this because I like tanking, but hate what this is doing at the moment. I think tanks should get an increase in overall mitigation so people can tell who is in light armor, who is in heavy armor, and who is in medium armor. There needs to be a real difference when you see them against mobs.

    I see why tanks get angry sometimes when they try to grind. Full armor getting peeled off by 3 skeevers at lvl V12 hitting you for over 20% hp a piece is one reason. Also the V10 Tiger mauling my character the other day to less than 50%hp in FULL HEAVY ARMOR. Then tanks definitely don't have the points to be putting into stamina to the point that they can handle those mobs.

    I HAVE charged my stamina to the max as a tank to try to kill them, and that was extremely ineffective powerwise, and hpwise. You hit too low hp, and you lose tankability. Then you take away more stamina and you still can't kill the mobs and lose power, and the only thing you can do is block, CC, and a few stamina moves while you wait for the mob to ultimately cause you armor damage by death.

    I've come to the conclusion that for a stamina based tank, it as actually "better" to use medium armor with one hand and shield because of the synergy between tanking and the medium armor buffs.

    Dexterity = more threat from crits

    Wind Walker = faster stam regen for more blocking

    Improved Sneak = initial big hit from stealth to start fight with higher threat without using a taunt

    Agility = more swings which create more threat

    Athletics = more mobility for a cheaper cost

    Evasion and morphs = PURE miss chance, not % mitigation. Each time an enemy misses due to this skill = 100% mitigation. Combine this skill with the Hist Bark set which also grants dodge chance while blocking and roughly 35% - 42% of all incoming attacks should miss.

    NB can even get a class skill that grants more on top of that using magicka instead of stam so it draws from both resource pools... depending on the morph that's anywhere between another 15% and 30%! albeit short term... 2 sec of 30% miss chance on activation and then another 24sec of 15% miss chance.

    Provided you keep up both of these relatively expensive skills and block, that totals 72% miss chance for 2 sec and 58% miss chance for 24 sec... on top of the mitigation you can attain for when you do get hit.

    Great for those oh crap moments or just to alternate the resources you are using.

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