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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
1k armor vs 2k armor
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Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »I like how we are comparing heavy with light and naked. I wonder if Medium would be best because you will hit the caps and have bonus in dodging damage...
You can get hard capped in Medium 50% mitigation and receive 35% dodge would that not be the best?Paladin_echo1 wrote: »I significantly have a problem with armor. I think they need to increase the amount of tanking a tank can do. Its a shame I can block and take damage naked and still have the same chance to survive as a fully armored tank against a v12 mob. Light armor gets incredibly way too much credit being the fact people can just go around and sport it and tank a lot of crap.
They have made the tanks into glass tanks in this game. How do you have a glass tank? You don't and they end up dying unless they block the crap out of every mob and run from nearly every spell casted.
I say this because I like tanking, but hate what this is doing at the moment. I think tanks should get an increase in overall mitigation so people can tell who is in light armor, who is in heavy armor, and who is in medium armor. There needs to be a real difference when you see them against mobs.
I see why tanks get angry sometimes when they try to grind. Full armor getting peeled off by 3 skeevers at lvl V12 hitting you for over 20% hp a piece is one reason. Also the V10 Tiger mauling my character the other day to less than 50%hp in FULL HEAVY ARMOR. Then tanks definitely don't have the points to be putting into stamina to the point that they can handle those mobs.
I HAVE charged my stamina to the max as a tank to try to kill them, and that was extremely ineffective powerwise, and hpwise. You hit too low hp, and you lose tankability. Then you take away more stamina and you still can't kill the mobs and lose power, and the only thing you can do is block, CC, and a few stamina moves while you wait for the mob to ultimately cause you armor damage by death.
I've come to the conclusion that for a stamina based tank, it as actually "better" to use medium armor with one hand and shield because of the synergy between tanking and the medium armor buffs.
Dexterity = more threat from crits
Wind Walker = faster stam regen for more blocking
Improved Sneak = initial big hit from stealth to start fight with higher threat without using a taunt
Agility = more swings which create more threat
Athletics = more mobility for a cheaper cost
Evasion and morphs = PURE miss chance, not % mitigation. Each time an enemy misses due to this skill = 100% mitigation. Combine this skill with the Hist Bark set which also grants dodge chance while blocking and roughly 35% - 42% of all incoming attacks should miss.
NB can even get a class skill that grants more on top of that using magicka instead of stam so it draws from both resource pools... depending on the morph that's anywhere between another 15% and 30%! albeit short term... 2 sec of 30% miss chance on activation and then another 24sec of 15% miss chance.
Provided you keep up both of these relatively expensive skills and block, that totals 72% miss chance for 2 sec and 58% miss chance for 24 sec... on top of the mitigation you can attain for when you do get hit.
Great for those oh crap moments or just to alternate the resources you are using.
I need numbers
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dragnier✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »I like how we are comparing heavy with light and naked. I wonder if Medium would be best because you will hit the caps and have bonus in dodging damage...
You can get hard capped in Medium 50% mitigation and receive 35% dodge would that not be the best?Paladin_echo1 wrote: »I significantly have a problem with armor. I think they need to increase the amount of tanking a tank can do. Its a shame I can block and take damage naked and still have the same chance to survive as a fully armored tank against a v12 mob. Light armor gets incredibly way too much credit being the fact people can just go around and sport it and tank a lot of crap.
They have made the tanks into glass tanks in this game. How do you have a glass tank? You don't and they end up dying unless they block the crap out of every mob and run from nearly every spell casted.
I say this because I like tanking, but hate what this is doing at the moment. I think tanks should get an increase in overall mitigation so people can tell who is in light armor, who is in heavy armor, and who is in medium armor. There needs to be a real difference when you see them against mobs.
I see why tanks get angry sometimes when they try to grind. Full armor getting peeled off by 3 skeevers at lvl V12 hitting you for over 20% hp a piece is one reason. Also the V10 Tiger mauling my character the other day to less than 50%hp in FULL HEAVY ARMOR. Then tanks definitely don't have the points to be putting into stamina to the point that they can handle those mobs.
I HAVE charged my stamina to the max as a tank to try to kill them, and that was extremely ineffective powerwise, and hpwise. You hit too low hp, and you lose tankability. Then you take away more stamina and you still can't kill the mobs and lose power, and the only thing you can do is block, CC, and a few stamina moves while you wait for the mob to ultimately cause you armor damage by death.
I've come to the conclusion that for a stamina based tank, it as actually "better" to use medium armor with one hand and shield because of the synergy between tanking and the medium armor buffs.
Dexterity = more threat from crits
Wind Walker = faster stam regen for more blocking
Improved Sneak = initial big hit from stealth to start fight with higher threat without using a taunt
Agility = more swings which create more threat
Athletics = more mobility for a cheaper cost
Evasion and morphs = PURE miss chance, not % mitigation. Each time an enemy misses due to this skill = 100% mitigation. Combine this skill with the Hist Bark set which also grants dodge chance while blocking and roughly 35% - 42% of all incoming attacks should miss.
NB can even get a class skill that grants more on top of that using magicka instead of stam so it draws from both resource pools... depending on the morph that's anywhere between another 15% and 30%! albeit short term... 2 sec of 30% miss chance on activation and then another 24sec of 15% miss chance.
Provided you keep up both of these relatively expensive skills and block, that totals 72% miss chance for 2 sec and 58% miss chance for 24 sec... on top of the mitigation you can attain for when you do get hit.
Great for those oh crap moments or just to alternate the resources you are using.
I need numbers
Medium armor w/ passives + shield
vs. pack of 4 v11 Welwas, all physical damage: took 262 dmg per light attack.
1462 armor = 22% mitigation
Add one 600 armor ring to that and you hit around 1974, almost the same soft cap as 7/7 heavy + shield, which is 30% mitigation and where many people stop for tanking purposes.
Throw on one more and you hit somewhere around 2174 or so... and that isn't for Epic (Purple) quality armor either.
So you can easily get around 33%+ mitigation PLUS 35% miss chance (Hist Bark 5 pcs + one buff) when needed... and remember that miss chance applies to everything, not just physical. (At least in my testing it seemed to, haven't tested this lately.)
The problem you run into though is vulnerability to magic damage due to the lack on medium armor. So you are more likely to run 1-2 x 600 Spell Resist rather than the armor enchants and rely on the extra miss chance to make up for the rest.
As for hard numbers here, I'm not THAT into math... would appreciate a little investigating from someone better versed than I at this. I know that in most games pure miss chance is better than % mitigation, so I'm applying that here even though it may not work out that way mathematically.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
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I dont actually know if its broken or not. Maybe the level difference means it can only hit a certain amount on me, however my armor level made almost no affect on the damage it hit at V9.
The V9 was hitting me for 224 when I had full gear on
The V11 was hitting me for 235 when I had full gear on
When I took my armor off
V9 was hitting me for 236
V11 was hitting me for 346.
If the V11 were hitting me for 47% less when I had armor on, how come the V9 was only hitting me 4% less with armor on? Again, is this due to level difference?
And we also have to consider if the V9 was scaled to V11, would it hit higher? What are the mobs armor penetration? Do they have any? It's all very confusing, and I would love some dev explaination.
Think of it this way
When I took of my armor I lost health, lets assume my health is the same for both
2227 armor
I had 2254 health. They have to hit me 9.5 times to kill me hitting 235
300 armor
2254 health. They have to hit me 6.5 times to kill me hitting 346
With an additional 1927 armor, i'm reducing their light attacks against me by 47%. But still, Craglorn is impossible to solo with a stamina build
Your math is off.
The 111 difference is a reduction of 32% from the 346 you were taking before. You do not do the math like 346/235, that is wrong. That is a proportion of current vs old, which is not what you are trying to calculate.
The difference in levels from VR9 to VR11 is strange, but perhaps intended so that older areas of the game (and dungeons do not become complete pushovers)
Edited by danno8 on June 18, 2014 5:39PM0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭I think the biggest issue with the armors isn't the passives or the differences between light/Meduim/Heavy. Its the current imbalance of Magicka versus Stamiana.
When you look at just the passives and compare them have are VERY well balanced looking.
All 3 armors increase regen for their respective pool Magckia Stamina Health
Light Armor increases value of Magicka users-decreased Magicka costs increased Magicka damage
Medium Armor increases value of Stamina users Stamina users-increased crtit improved sneak improved Light/Heavy Attacks.
Heavy Armor increase Health/Survivability - increased Health regen, cheaper block costs, increased healing received even increased armor spell resistances.
The thing about armor is it makes the respective Stat more valuable to the user without gimping them for not wearing the respective armor.
A melee will put out MORE damage with Medium Armor. A melee with Heavy Armor will be more durable. This doesn't mean a melee CANT be durable with Medium Armor it just means it EASIER with Heavy Armor.
Light Armor is the same it Makes Magicka users better with low durability. A Magicka user can INCREASE their durability but NOT to the levels of a Medium/Heavy Armor users
Right now Medium/Heavy Armor is perceived as "worthless" because the community perceives Stamina/Melee builds as WORTHLESS.
SO the current answer is NOT to "FIX" the armor but to better understand WHAT the discrepancy between Magicka/Stamina builds is.
I can easy argue the values of a Stamina build in its current state and why you WONT get the same values as a Magicka build.1 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »A melee with Heavy Armor will be more durable.
I think this is the problem, main tanks are going light armor because it is more durable. (Magic resists)0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Main Tanks are going Light Armor because it increases the value of their Magicka. With the right build and gear you can get almost seemingly endless Magicka reach the soft caps which allows you to tank.
The real issue is Magicka Builds. IF Magicka builds Ran out of Magicka there would be an entire shift in the balance.
Magicka produces the best numbers in the game. IF Magicka users run out of Magicka then their numbers would become crap. So this would give a Magicka user High Damage Low Sustainment.
Stamina users produce Good Damage(better than Magicka user without Magicka)WITHOUT their respective resource. This leads to choice and decisions of WHAT to do with their resource pool. IE Stamina abilities or Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break.
Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break are game changers for Stamina users utilizing these correctly opens up opportunities for good bursts of damage. The damage burst will be lower than that of a Magicka users typically, but you also have to look at the value you got from say a Block.....Reduced Damage and a stunned Target that CANT attack for some VERY vital Moments.
Magicka users ALSO have to rely on their resource pool for important things OTHER than DPS such as utility, CC, Self Heals that drains their resource AND potentially, lowers their overall DPS potential.
The real issue of balance in this game for things complained about is Magicka users DONT run out of Magicka, or not fast enough.2 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭"Magicka produces the best numbers in the game. IF Magicka users run out of Magicka then their numbers would become crap" I disagree because they can go to the stamina pool while mana rebuilds1
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dragnier✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »"Magicka produces the best numbers in the game. IF Magicka users run out of Magicka then their numbers would become crap" I disagree because they can go to the stamina pool while mana rebuilds
Or just light/heavy attack like a stam user can do when they run out of stam...
But there is the problem isn't it?
They can both just light/heavy though that reduces their dps.
They can both use what they have of the other resource to boost their dps some.
They can both dodge/block/cc break/sprint with a resource they don't use for primary damage skills... wait... that's not right...
They can both regain their primary resource via skills at the same rate... wait... there is really only one skill in the game that does this and NB has it but it decreases their dps drastically while it is turned on...Edited by dragnier on June 18, 2014 9:57PM0 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »"Magicka produces the best numbers in the game. IF Magicka users run out of Magicka then their numbers would become crap" I disagree because they can go to the stamina pool while mana rebuilds
Or just light/heavy attack like a stam user can do when they run out of stam...
I can still do massive damage when out of mana and even heal with staff passives. A Stamina user will be less effective when going to mana. At least this is what i have found.
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p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭These hard caps are just a consequence of combat design. You should use active defense (block, dodge, etc) instead of relying on passives.
THIS!!!!!!
Yersterday I wasn't bothered to repair my armour since I was close to get to V7.
The night before has set me back 1300g, and that was 2 deaths and heavy beating at Glenumbra (VR6 area)
So started fresh with 1800 armour. (5HA/2LA)
Did some quests died in the start, but started getting better and better with the new skills started to using and leveling. (Degeneration/Rally/Executioner).
Suddenly realised my armour was 900. Ignored it and kept going doing the main line quest in the area. Died once after some heavy beating and damn lag. Armour 500. Checked the bill was something like 1800g to repair. I said "sod it" and carried on.
By the time I hit the last quest (at the big tree) my armour was 140. Many parts went to 0 and stopped giving their passive bonuses from the skill line also.
I carried on all way to the heart of the tree where I had 0 armour. (all items broken).
Between 900 armour and 0 Armour died once!!!!!! Even if I fought my way through as normal killing hundreds of mobs in groups of 2-3.
(died twice on the heart of the big tree until I realise need to stand next to the spirits or I am one shot @ 2800 HP)
It felt to me that when went below 200 Armour, the trash mobs were doing almost no damage!!!!! Some where hitting power attacks, spells. Nothing. I could heal, shrug it and keep going as normal. (some might laugh that that was my perseption)
FYI I was trying to block and dodge as normal. (yes in the HA)
So decided that Heavy Armour sucks, and made a V7 medium set. Put 8 points I had on all passives needed (had it leveled before) and moved on to the next area.
By keep playing exactly the same (with 2 handed GS), by rolling around dodging attacks.
Having 2/3 the previous AC in this green V7 5MA/2LA set, compared to the V6 5HA/2LA all blue, means nothing tbh.
However my character feels tad better. I can defend more, I can attack faster that includes pulling my channeling spells faster after a 2H attack (also put a weighted GS on and is helped with the faster attacks from Medium).
FYI Hunding rage scales better as does Rally also, giving more bonus and keeping the damage constant!!!!0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »These hard caps are just a consequence of combat design. You should use active defense (block, dodge, etc) instead of relying on passives.
THIS!!!!!!
Yersterday I wasn't bothered to repair my armour since I was close to get to V7.
The night before has set me back 1300g, and that was 2 deaths and heavy beating at Glenumbra (VR6 area)
So started fresh with 1800 armour. (5HA/2LA)
Did some quests died in the start, but started getting better and better with the new skills started to using and leveling. (Degeneration/Rally/Executioner).
Suddenly realised my armour was 900. Ignored it and kept going doing the main line quest in the area. Died once after some heavy beating and damn lag. Armour 500. Checked the bill was something like 1800g to repair. I said "sod it" and carried on.
By the time I hit the last quest (at the big tree) my armour was 140. Many parts went to 0 and stopped giving their passive bonuses from the skill line also.
I carried on all way to the heart of the tree where I had 0 armour. (all items broken).
Between 900 armour and 0 Armour died once!!!!!! Even if I fought my way through as normal killing hundreds of mobs in groups of 2-3.
(died twice on the heart of the big tree until I realise need to stand next to the spirits or I am one shot @ 2800 HP)
It felt to me that when went below 200 Armour, the trash mobs were doing almost no damage!!!!! Some where hitting power attacks, spells. Nothing. I could heal, shrug it and keep going as normal. (some might laugh that that was my perseption)
FYI I was trying to block and dodge as normal. (yes in the HA)
So decided that Heavy Armour sucks, and made a V7 medium set. Put 8 points I had on all passives needed (had it leveled before) and moved on to the next area.
By keep playing exactly the same (with 2 handed GS), by rolling around dodging attacks.
Having 2/3 the previous AC in this green V7 5MA/2LA set, compared to the V6 5HA/2LA all blue, means nothing tbh.
However my character feels tad better. I can defend more, I can attack faster that includes pulling my channeling spells faster after a 2H attack (also put a weighted GS on and is helped with the faster attacks from Medium).
FYI Hunding rage scales better as does Rally also, giving more bonus and keeping the damage constant!!!!
Well you have to look at it from a different perspective. Light Armor with a lower armor rating WOULD have a much more difficult time IF Heavy Armor made a huge difference.
It did make a NOTICEABLE difference but the game is still highly playable. The game doesn't force you to wear Heavy Armor just to survive and make it through the content, nor does it penalize you for wearing Light Armor.
Heavy Armor just makes surviving EAISER, not the only way TO survive.0 -
RangerChad✭✭✭its been obvious armour mitigation is utter fail in this game for ages, hence why light armour mages in this game have no problem standing in large groups of mobs spamming impulse... light armour should be for ranged fighting as in melee range you get mashed fast..
every other game armour makes sense but in ESO .. its just fecked .
Chances are they will just reduce the amount of armor other gear gives vs heavy, instead of giving heavy a higher armor cap or damage mitigation.
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dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tested it on a bunch of V11 mobs. First picture is with full gear, 2nd is naked.
Seems like the armor only applies when the mob is near your level. My first test was on a V9 mob, these were on V11.
They hit 111 less melee damage (or 47% less with their light attacks) when I add 1927 armor on this test. Keep in mind this is only from melee, I don't know if spell reduction works either.
you went from non craglorn to actual craglorn? craglorn enemies hit slightly less inherentlyPLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Well you have to look at it from a different perspective. Light Armor with a lower armor rating WOULD have a much more difficult time IF Heavy Armor made a huge difference.
Ever heard of buffs? This game got plenty of it.
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SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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@crislevinlol, now I wonder if strip naked would be just fine. Interesting.
I play a Naked Nord (wearing only a horned helmet for looks, sabatons and gloves to get a set bonus) and so far i haven't run into a single situation where i felt like i needed more armor.
;-)1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭In order to make heavy armor viable for tanking, it doesn't need more armor or armor passives.
What it needs is an addition to the current passives, namely, a percentage damage reduction passive. If heavy armor is to become viable for tanking, it's going to need percentage damage reduction in the passives. Not more armor or spell resist.Edited by Dymence on June 26, 2014 1:03AM2 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »These hard caps are just a consequence of combat design. You should use active defense (block, dodge, etc) instead of relying on passives.
THIS!!!!!!
Yersterday I wasn't bothered to repair my armour since I was close to get to V7.
The night before has set me back 1300g, and that was 2 deaths and heavy beating at Glenumbra (VR6 area)
So started fresh with 1800 armour. (5HA/2LA)
Did some quests died in the start, but started getting better and better with the new skills started to using and leveling. (Degeneration/Rally/Executioner).
Suddenly realised my armour was 900. Ignored it and kept going doing the main line quest in the area. Died once after some heavy beating and damn lag. Armour 500. Checked the bill was something like 1800g to repair. I said "sod it" and carried on.
By the time I hit the last quest (at the big tree) my armour was 140. Many parts went to 0 and stopped giving their passive bonuses from the skill line also.
I carried on all way to the heart of the tree where I had 0 armour. (all items broken).
Between 900 armour and 0 Armour died once!!!!!! Even if I fought my way through as normal killing hundreds of mobs in groups of 2-3.
(died twice on the heart of the big tree until I realise need to stand next to the spirits or I am one shot @ 2800 HP)
It felt to me that when went below 200 Armour, the trash mobs were doing almost no damage!!!!! Some where hitting power attacks, spells. Nothing. I could heal, shrug it and keep going as normal. (some might laugh that that was my perseption)
FYI I was trying to block and dodge as normal. (yes in the HA)
So decided that Heavy Armour sucks, and made a V7 medium set. Put 8 points I had on all passives needed (had it leveled before) and moved on to the next area.
By keep playing exactly the same (with 2 handed GS), by rolling around dodging attacks.
Having 2/3 the previous AC in this green V7 5MA/2LA set, compared to the V6 5HA/2LA all blue, means nothing tbh.
However my character feels tad better. I can defend more, I can attack faster that includes pulling my channeling spells faster after a 2H attack (also put a weighted GS on and is helped with the faster attacks from Medium).
FYI Hunding rage scales better as does Rally also, giving more bonus and keeping the damage constant!!!!
Well you have to look at it from a different perspective. Light Armor with a lower armor rating WOULD have a much more difficult time IF Heavy Armor made a huge difference.
It did make a NOTICEABLE difference but the game is still highly playable. The game doesn't force you to wear Heavy Armor just to survive and make it through the content, nor does it penalize you for wearing Light Armor.
Heavy Armor just makes surviving EAISER, not the only way TO survive.
It penalizes you for wearing heavy armor is the point.its completely aesthetic it mitigates nothing. Thats the point.heavy armor is useless and broken3 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭In order to make heavy armor viable for tanking, it doesn't need more armor or armor passives.
What it needs is an addition to the current passives, namely, a percentage damage reduction passive. If heavy armor is to become viable for tanking, it's going to need percentage damage reduction in the passives. Not more armor or spell resist.
This is actually a great idea. They could change the current (when wearing 5 pcs of heavy armor...) to 3%/6%, or at most (5%/10%), reduction to damage taken from all sources.1 -
madangrypally✭✭✭✭
My proposed changes:
Resolve: Changed. This now reduces cost of CC break by 6% and Block by 3% per piece worn at rank 2. (IE: 42% CC break reduction with all 7 pieces worn and 21% block reduction. This is in line with some armor sets so not to OP).
Constitution: Change: Increase in-combat Health, Magicka, and Stamina regeneration. All the abilities still cost a truck load with no resource reduction so this will help offset it a little.
Bracing: Change: With 5 or more pieces worn adds damage reduction, 5% at rank 1 and 10% at rank 2 .
Rapid Mending: Increase healing is good, but make it so it receiving heals generate ultimate in addition to its current form
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Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭madangrypally wrote: »My proposed changes:
Resolve: Changed. This now reduces cost of CC break by 6% and Block by 3% per piece worn at rank 2. (IE: 42% CC break reduction with all 7 pieces worn and 21% block reduction. This is in line with some armor sets so not to OP).
Constitution: Change: Increase in-combat Health, Magicka, and Stamina regeneration. All the abilities still cost a truck load with no resource reduction so this will help offset it a little.
Bracing: Change: With 5 or more pieces worn adds damage reduction, 5% at rank 1 and 10% at rank 2 .
Rapid Mending: Increase healing is good, but make it so it receiving heals generate ultimate in addition to its current form
Not so sure about the constitution change. Every armor has its offset like this. Light armor doesn't have stamina nor health regen. Medium armor doesn't have magicka nor health regen. I don't think any armor should have all three of them.
Heavy armor should be focussing on making you tough if anything else. Having stamina and magicka regen also doesn't make any sense if you think logically about a dude wearing some heavy ass armor. Perhaps a percentage health increase should be added to its current state?
The CC break cost is an interesting addition which I think I can agree to though, and as my previous post stated, the damage reduction passive is really a must for heavy armor.
The rapid mending change you suggested is n/c for me. Not sure what to think of it yet.Edited by Dymence on June 26, 2014 12:16PM0 -
coryevans_3b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah that's really disheartening. When you wear heavy armor, you are sacrificing quite a bit of damage/regen/etc and if it doesn't provide adequate mitigation, there is no point in using it...
Passives...
But if you look at the second test there is a big difference, not that I think that armr isn't totally borked.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »Yeah that's really disheartening. When you wear heavy armor, you are sacrificing quite a bit of damage/regen/etc and if it doesn't provide adequate mitigation, there is no point in using it...
Passives...
But if you look at the second test there is a big difference, not that I think that armr isn't totally borked.
I cant look at Heavy Armor and think its borked I think its the way people look at it and expect from it without realizing its full potential.
Light Armor can hit soft cap and cast well. This does allow a different kind of tanking but if something hits hard you have to look at what Heavy Armor is offering.
Heavy Armor can PUSH to hard cap. So now your talking 20% physical damage reduction OVER Light Armor. Then you have decreased cost in blocking with increased healing received
I think the issue is people aren't seeing the extra 20% physical damage reduction over Light Armor and factor that into the passives.1 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »Yeah that's really disheartening. When you wear heavy armor, you are sacrificing quite a bit of damage/regen/etc and if it doesn't provide adequate mitigation, there is no point in using it...
Passives...
But if you look at the second test there is a big difference, not that I think that armr isn't totally borked.
I cant look at Heavy Armor and think its borked I think its the way people look at it and expect from it without realizing its full potential.
Light Armor can hit soft cap and cast well. This does allow a different kind of tanking but if something hits hard you have to look at what Heavy Armor is offering.
Heavy Armor can PUSH to hard cap. So now your talking 20% physical damage reduction OVER Light Armor. Then you have decreased cost in blocking with increased healing received
I think the issue is people aren't seeing the extra 20% physical damage reduction over Light Armor and factor that into the passives.
Your wrong . You can hit hard cap n light armor. You can easily buff yourself to hard cap. Tuere is no additional caps for any armor. I am a end game tank on two characters. There is zero difference in mitigation between myheavy armor dk running armor buff and my sorc in light armor running aegis and lightning armor .both cap out at 50% mitigation you get no additional caps for wearing heavy .you get more critical and magic resistance in light. The only thing gained is additional healing is 3.5%. That means nothing . In vr content if a mob hits you for a crit 3200 hit you die whether you were in light or heavy if you only have 2900 hp.your fooling yourself if you think heavy mitigates anything. The only additional mitigation you get is from a block with shield. Ive tanked every single vr boss aside from the last trial , type of armor means nothing the armor value dictates mitigation and light armor hits the 50% mitigation with a couple buffs.there are videos showing people tank naked with incoming damage compared to wearing heavy the difference was so slight the healer barely noticedEdited by Wifeaggro13 on July 5, 2014 5:14PM4 -
themizario✭✭✭leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »This bring another question. Reduce target armor by X or armor penetration is it worth it?
If mobs hit you almost the same if you are naked then if the other way around is the same why use these enchants?
I would be really curious too0 -
Slash8915✭✭✭✭✭Yep, I tested this exact same thing a while back. The damage mitigation of full heavy armor with 2100 armor rating vs being naked was pretty minimal. Total slap in the face to us Heavy Armor users. I often times find myself running around naked just to avoid repair costs. Besides having less max health and stamina from my armor glyphs, I see no real difference in combat.
ZoS DEFINITELY needs to redo the damage mitigation of heavy armor. We already normally do less damage than light armor and medium armor users. Why not atleast give us significantly more survivability like we're SUPPOSED to have?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Please look at this thread and talk it over with your devs. Being a full heavy armor, stamina tank just isn't that viable. Especially when compared to a light armor, Magicka one.Edited by Slash8915 on July 5, 2014 8:46PMVR12 Templar Tank
VR6 Dragonknight DPS
VR3 Templar Healer0 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭
I didn't believe this was true at first so I went and found a single mud crab and just let him kill me. I counted how many hits it took.
It only took like 3 more hits in armor than naked.
Yeah a fun mud crab can kill a guy wearing heavy plate ....In 3 extra hits.0 -
Slash8915✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »I didn't believe this was true at first so I went and found a single mud crab and just let him kill me. I counted how many hits it took.
It only took like 3 more hits in armor than naked.
Yeah a fun mud crab can kill a guy wearing heavy plate ....In 3 extra hits.
I tested this out with my VR12 tank on VR1 mobs, so they could hit me several times. They only did about 20 less damage per hit with full armor vs being naked.VR12 Templar Tank
VR6 Dragonknight DPS
VR3 Templar Healer0 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
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I dont actually know if its broken or not. Maybe the level difference means it can only hit a certain amount on me, however my armor level made almost no affect on the damage it hit at V9.
The V9 was hitting me for 224 when I had full gear on
The V11 was hitting me for 235 when I had full gear on
When I took my armor off
V9 was hitting me for 236
V11 was hitting me for 346.
If the V11 were hitting me for 47% less when I had armor on, how come the V9 was only hitting me 4% less with armor on? Again, is this due to level difference?
And we also have to consider if the V9 was scaled to V11, would it hit higher? What are the mobs armor penetration? Do they have any? It's all very confusing, and I would love some dev explaination.
just a thought but the v11's would be craglorn? those mobs seem to work correctly in general while the mobs are borked in vet 5-10 zones. remember they accidently buffed them in patch 1.1.2 and supposedly hotfixed it back but it made no diffrence.. they probably buffed them to 90% armour pen or soemthing ***
The VR1-10 mobs do have 90% armor and spell penetration. I thought that had been known for some time. Craglorn mobs don't have any. Perhaps that's the fix for balancing 1-10 VR zones, if would make sense.0 -
Gokmak✭✭✭The VR1-10 mobs do have 90% armor and spell penetration. I thought that had been known for some time. Craglorn mobs don't have any. Perhaps that's the fix for balancing 1-10 VR zones, if would make sense.
What? Is this true?
I didn't know this. I'm V3 stamina build, having a very hard time, my armor seems pretty useless. Guess I can drop the +armor ring and +fire resist rings for something else, maybe more regen.
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