Melee is so weak they are getting booted out of Dungeon Groups

reggielee

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

I agree with all of you but if your chosen build and way to play the game is simply not as good compared to other choices... what do you do then? Drag the Guild group you are in down or do you change your build and run a ranged magical build just so you can do as much as you can for the Guild?

They need to balance things so people are not forced between playing what they want and dragging the group down or playing a ranged magical dps build that they hate so they can be more effective and help the group.

dragging the group down? jeezus man, get a grip. so it takes a min more to do a dungeon? nice to know you think of your guildies as just another extension to your dps output and are there to only get your goals done.

to the OP.... .ignore those idjits that booted you and put a nice note on why you ignored them, then when they are whining they need a tank NOW and why doesnt anyone tank anymore you can send em a nice finger wave

Epsilon_Echo

What?

Admittedly I'm a PvP player mostly and my build is geared toward that. However, I see this as a non-issue. I can stack my damage skills and hit 200 w/damage with a great sword. There are not alot of people in PvP who will take that kind of damage with a grin. Stack that with my heavy armor perks and the ranged mages you are talking about barely make me shrug in 1v1 engagements.

If you apply basic logic to the PvE world then a group that won't accept melee classes is a group with bad healers.

pecheckler

Link to the add-on that displays other players DPS please, because I don't believe you.

On the topic, I hate grouping with melee nightblades, they are simply inferior to melee templars and dragonknights who have many viable melee damage builds. Ranged nightblades however, especially those who play full support are great.

The only effective melee night blade i've ever seen was using heavy and medium armor with a 2 hander, using brawler for damage shield plus immovable brute and ring of preservation.

pecheckler

Davngr wrote: »

melee damage is weak and incoming aoe damage for a nightblade is absurd, in both pvp and pve.

need to boost melee dps to at least slightly win out on single targets against ranged damage bow/sorc.

if you don't like parsing then don't play with people who like to parse. i like to use a parser and have only kicked people from the group when a "wall" is hit. Am I and the other two people in the group suppose to leave a dungeon unfinished because you don't know how to press buttons or care enough to outfit your character?

I frankly rather nightblade abilities get boost so that when used correctly, they do substantial single target damage. I am against just boosting melee damage and turning the nightblade class into an aoe spamer class like sorc/dk. I already have those alts when I feel like blowing stuff up


Allow group wide parsing, it's dumb to disable it.

When real raid content goes in, developers are going to find they're limited by the lack of tools available to raiders. Not being able to parse the entire raids damage/heals is going to put casual raiders in a situation where they won't be able to pinpoint who/what needs to improve to progress and high end players are going to become even more elitist than they had been in other games. Do to the fact that they won't be able to keep tabs on people, thus will have to find alternate, harsher ways to redact dead weight.

I know billy, tommy and tina all got gold medals at their 1/4 mile sprint but everyone could easily see tina was the superior athlete, even if they didn't show times!

This game has WAY to many PvE mechanics which cannot be calculated on a combat log parser. Support abilities including increasing allied defense and regeneration, support attacks morphed to give allies the ability to cleanse, restore stamina and magicka, or activate offensive abilities. Area of effect persistant defense rings like rune focus or circle of protection. Using volcanic rune, a low DPS spell, to keep knocking enemies into the air. How about a DK that runs choking talons for support damage mitigation?

Seriously, if you really truly believe that a damage and healing combat log parser is viable in this game then you know very little about how the game works.

NextGame

Theres a couple of problems in this region as far as I can tell with ESO right now.

1) Melee is indeed a joke, particularly the nightblade class. I have one at VR4 and he might as well be trying to tickle the enemy to death when compared to the damage output of the other 3 classes, particularly sorcerer who somehow managed to get away with being best in class for 2 roles and able to do the third. Balancing much? I've ended up rolling a sorcerer because at the end of the day, if you think something is best then use it. 90% of the lowbie areas I have been running through with my sorc appear to have the same idea.

2) I fail to see any real reason to prevent group/raid wide dps/heal meters from being in operation other than protect the feelings of bads trying to play where they aren't wanted. It becomes much harder to improve in a role if you do not have statistics available to allow you to compare to others who perform the same role.

Shillen

Problem is how do they buff melees without making them ridiculous in pvp? They can already pop out of stealth and destroy you in seconds. If they were buffed there wouldn't even be those seconds to react.

AlliN

Problem is how do they buff melees without making them ridiculous in pvp?

By lowering pve mobs physical reduction. Only and best way.

Reenlister

I really think, and no, I didn't read every single post prior, but many of these. This whole how much dps do you do is stupid.
I have no idea what mine is. Nor do I care. I smash things. Things die when I fight them, that's what its about.
Linking up with a bunch of people who would rather concern themselves with the little numbers flying around so they can see themselves as some kind of uber creature, and think they are not 'bad' as I saw someone say just smacks of silliness. The idea is, if you cant fight a boss, you get a group. Said group then uses their abilities and skills to fight boss.
If you wanna worry about dps, go back to a one two three button game where it only matters how much you hit since you just stand still while your fighting.
Tracking that info and deciding on a group by it is just to much like work.
Better to go and test yourself and your skills by just fighting and having fun at it.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Why have so many people replied to this? the OP lied about being kicked cuz of lack of dps just to try to cry about mele dmg. Yes, it prob needs a tweak, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a dps meter see others damage, only your own. OP should be banned immediately.

Davngr

pecheckler wrote: »

show previous quotes

Davngr wrote: »

melee damage is weak and incoming aoe damage for a nightblade is absurd, in both pvp and pve.

need to boost melee dps to at least slightly win out on single targets against ranged damage bow/sorc.

if you don't like parsing then don't play with people who like to parse. i like to use a parser and have only kicked people from the group when a "wall" is hit. Am I and the other two people in the group suppose to leave a dungeon unfinished because you don't know how to press buttons or care enough to outfit your character?

I frankly rather nightblade abilities get boost so that when used correctly, they do substantial single target damage. I am against just boosting melee damage and turning the nightblade class into an aoe spamer class like sorc/dk. I already have those alts when I feel like blowing stuff up


Allow group wide parsing, it's dumb to disable it.

When real raid content goes in, developers are going to find they're limited by the lack of tools available to raiders. Not being able to parse the entire raids damage/heals is going to put casual raiders in a situation where they won't be able to pinpoint who/what needs to improve to progress and high end players are going to become even more elitist than they had been in other games. Do to the fact that they won't be able to keep tabs on people, thus will have to find alternate, harsher ways to redact dead weight.

I know billy, tommy and tina all got gold medals at their 1/4 mile sprint but everyone could easily see tina was the superior athlete, even if they didn't show times!

This game has WAY to many PvE mechanics which cannot be calculated on a combat log parser. Support abilities including increasing allied defense and regeneration, support attacks morphed to give allies the ability to cleanse, restore stamina and magicka, or activate offensive abilities. Area of effect persistant defense rings like rune focus or circle of protection. Using volcanic rune, a low DPS spell, to keep knocking enemies into the air. How about a DK that runs choking talons for support damage mitigation?

Seriously, if you really truly believe that a damage and healing combat log parser is viable in this game then you know very little about how the game works.

Untrue.

Most all of that can be parsed, inc heals magika/stam/hp, how many CC abilities hit, ect... well, as long as group wide parsing mechanic is allowed.

The only people who don't want a group wide parsing ability are the people who are bad at this game and what those bad players just can't understand is that, it's not the parser that is keeping you down. Your inability to be a good player is to blame and that will become evident with a parser or without.

Matter of fact WITH a parser you have the tools to fix what you're doing wrong.

Anastasia

Davngr wrote: »

show previous quotes

pecheckler wrote: »

...

Most all of that can be parsed, inc heals magika/stam/hp, how many CC abilities hit, ect... well, as long as group wide parsing mechanic is allowed.

The only people who don't want a group wide parsing ability are the people who are bad at this game and what those bad players just can't understand is that, it's not the parser that is keeping you down. Your inability to be a good player is to blame and that will become evident with a parser or without.

Matter of fact WITH a parser you have the tools to fix what you're doing wrong...

---

Must...resist....told you so....arrrrgh theres only a few of him, theres only a few of him....*Gets out the good Rye...

Davngr

Anastasia wrote: »

show previous quotes

Davngr wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

...

Most all of that can be parsed, inc heals magika/stam/hp, how many CC abilities hit, ect... well, as long as group wide parsing mechanic is allowed.

The only people who don't want a group wide parsing ability are the people who are bad at this game and what those bad players just can't understand is that, it's not the parser that is keeping you down. Your inability to be a good player is to blame and that will become evident with a parser or without.

Matter of fact WITH a parser you have the tools to fix what you're doing wrong...

---

Must...resist....told you so....arrrrgh theres only a few of him, theres only a few of him....*Gets out the good Rye...

Malediktus

AlliN wrote: »

show previous quotes

Problem is how do they buff melees without making them ridiculous in pvp?

By lowering pve mobs physical reduction. Only and best way.

or split skills for pve and pvp like other games do it

Brakkar

I had a group in Spindle vr a few days ago.
2nd boss as you surely know is a classic example of tank&spank dps race.
We wiped a good few times and I felt like people are starting to loose patience.
But I asked them to do it a few times more, on next try I noticed healer was to far so a tank was dying around middle of the fight, one rdps was around as far away from boss but on other side so heals werent reaching him.
So I asked for change of tactics, told them to stack in a box formation around the boss, spam heal on aoe.
We killed the boss on 3rd try after that, the first were close as well.
Sometime before that the second dps actually asked me, if I eant him to leave.
I told him, no - stay and learn.
It's do easy to say, yes leave.
But then person won't learn anything, besides looking for new dps doesn't guarantee he/she will be any better.
I prefer to work with the group, learn the teamwork etc.
We did BC vr with same group after Spindle and we didn't have a single wipe.

So my point is, be more patient with people and they will get results, learn they class etc.
Btw, I am a dw dk, 0/14/35 medium armor build.
Over time my dps went up as well.
Do I find my class/spec broken?
No, not everything. Some skills could use buffs, some need fixes as they don't always fire up but its latency issue.
I would welcome a buff with open arms but don't think its a must.
Right now as vr7 I am soloing vr9 public dungeons ( the smaller ones with 3 mob packs).
Would I be able to do that if my dps was crap? Don't think so.

Anyway, don't want to write a whole essay about it so lets just stop here.

Just chill out and give people a chance - one day they may be better than you.

KenjiJU

Same old stuff.

It's a little different here because every class has to be able to fill any role, but the whole concept behind a 'glass cannon' in cloth armor is lost when they're always compensated with good CC and armor spells. Much less risk for greater reward.

zhevon

Eris wrote: »

Leader: What is your DPS

I know I am clueless - How the hell do we even know our DPS?

NextGame

Reenlister wrote: »

This whole how much dps do you do is stupid.

False.

Firstly: So long as dps race mechanics are in place in pve boss fights your dps is relevant, as lack thereof can prevent you and potentially your party from progressing through the game. When you encounter these bosses, such as VR Spindleclutch boss #2, the game is telling you that you are expected to be doing a certain level of dps as a group. DPS meters are important as they are the only tool that you can have to ensure that you can tweak your character and playstyle to hit that baseline. Excluding this tool from the game only serves to harm endgame progression and leave everyone wondering whether they are grouping with decent players or a bunch of hams, or indeed if they are the ham (if you play nightblade, you are probably the ham).

2nd: once a player has completed certain repeatable content, they tend to want to move through it as fast as possible in the future, and higher dps is the answer to that. This is where bads traditionally start getting upset as no group that understands what they are doing wants to take them anywhere as their attitude is "dps level doesn't matter", and expect the rest of the group to carry them. This holds said group back and risks wasting a lot of time in dungeons that would be a cakewalk when taking someone else. Why should 3 other players time be wasted because of 1 players inconsideration?

Bottom line, this game needs group dps/heal meters to be returned as an available function to the community. People who don't want to use it obviously wouldn't need to, and can go group with similarly minded people, and just suck it up that other players are more willing to put time into making their character effective. But there's no real reason that the choice shouldn't be there for those who *do* want to play effectively other than sheer petty mindedness. Stop holding people back.

R0M2K

Agree with Op, melee, especially NB, are atm a joke.

VR4 NB here thinking on quitting this weird game.

neocomab16_ESO

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Also, its not JUST sorcs, DK`s can also do it via dots and so on... its magic as a whole that is stronger.

Last time I stated this people told me I should l2p
Anyway, once everyone is using staff + cloth they can finally balance the game around 1 weapon and one armor skill line. Makes it far more easy, right?

Perseas

This dps meters destroy games... they force players, with disturbing ways, to play the way THEY want, not the way the player plays his game, if players dont comply with their sadistic appetites, they kick away players and there is allot of frustration. I havent seen anything in game yet... Swtor does have 1 but its not 100% accurate, because bioware prohibits that.

If i see people like that ingame, is more likely that I will block them and ignore them, such as bots. I have them in the same category as bots, because they act, their character is like a robot. I never allow anybody to tell me how to play my game. I ignore them... either ways I play as a healer, but this latency destroying it some times.

As far as I can see, dps is not the issue in ESO bosses, so its worthless. ESO bosses, need you to be versitile and move and find a way to do it... its not like " DPS DPS FAST FAST"... its not like that.

neocomab16_ESO

Perseas wrote: »

This dps meters destroy games... they force players, with disturbing ways, to play the way THEY want, not the way the player plays his game, if players dont comply with their sadistic appetites, they kick away players and there is allot of frustration. I havent seen anything in game yet... Swtor does have 1 but its not 100% accurate, because bioware prohibits that.

If i see people like that ingame, is more likely that I will ban them, such as bots. I have them in the same category as bots, because they act, their character is like a robot. I never allow anybody to tell me how to play my game. I ban them... either ways I play as a healer, but this latency destroying it some times.

As far as I can see, dps is not the issue in ESO bosses, so its worthless. ESO bosses, need you to be versitile and move and find a way to do it... its not like " DPS DPS FAST FAST"... its not like that.

First of all, get to 50, do vet dungeons, tell me again about DPS not being important.

Second, I know and it is totally fine for you when you pretty much suck at your role as a DPS because you want to fulfill your personal phantasy of being an ineffective something. I get that. But here is the deal. This is an MMO. That includes multiplayer. Multiplayer means more people than just you. So, if you want to play stuff that is designed for player number = 4, then you will have to play by the rules and thus perform in order to not *** off your entire group.

If you find 3 others just like you and you wipe over and over again because the tank prefers to wear cloth, the healer tries to heal with a 2handed axe and you want to dps with a resto staff, that is totally fine. But if that ever happens (and I hope it wont for the sake of other players) dont complain about content being too hard.

And finally, if you dont want to adjust your setup for grouping, play solo but stick to it. Simple as that. There will always be tight enrage timers to beat so better get used to it or play a single player game, or never join a group - ever.

rotatorkuf

i don't think they need a boost atm

i do fine with DK dps, as do others, this fact pretty much nullifies any argument for lacking dps (maybe nightblade, but that's cause of bugged abilities which they are fixing)

that being said, either try to find a more efficient build

or, more justifiably, find a group that doesn't include dickheads worried about dps meters

tbh, i didn't even know there was GROUP/RAID dps meters in the game, or any addons for it

so you are either making this story up, or you got lied to, or there is a dps meter addon that measure GROUP dps

find a group that isn't a bunch of elitist kids

all these dungeons are very doable with decent dps

rotatorkuf

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

As I struggle through vet content on my broken NB, all I see around me are destruction staff users running into 4/5 mobs spamming impulse and killing everything in seconds. And they're going to make it stronger! O.o

what's stopping you from using destro staff? you can do the same exact thing

Perseas

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Perseas wrote: »

This dps meters destroy games... they force players, with disturbing ways, to play the way THEY want, not the way the player plays his game, if players dont comply with their sadistic appetites, they kick away players and there is allot of frustration. I havent seen anything in game yet... Swtor does have 1 but its not 100% accurate, because bioware prohibits that.

If i see people like that ingame, is more likely that I will ban them, such as bots. I have them in the same category as bots, because they act, their character is like a robot. I never allow anybody to tell me how to play my game. I ban them... either ways I play as a healer, but this latency destroying it some times.

As far as I can see, dps is not the issue in ESO bosses, so its worthless. ESO bosses, need you to be versitile and move and find a way to do it... its not like " DPS DPS FAST FAST"... its not like that.

First of all, get to 50, do vet dungeons, tell me again about DPS not being important.

Second, I know and it is totally fine for you when you pretty much suck at your role as a DPS because you want to fulfill your personal phantasy of being an ineffective something. I get that. But here is the deal. This is an MMO. That includes multiplayer. Multiplayer means more people than just you. So, if you want to play stuff that is designed for player number = 4, then you will have to play by the rules and thus perform in order to not *** off your entire group.

If you find 3 others just like you and you wipe over and over again because the tank prefers to wear cloth, the healer tries to heal with a 2handed axe and you want to dps with a resto staff, that is totally fine. But if that ever happens (and I hope it wont for the sake of other players) dont complain about content being too hard.

And finally, if you dont want to adjust your setup for grouping, play solo but stick to it. Simple as that. There will always be tight enrage timers to beat so better get used to it or play a single player game, or never join a group - ever.

Oh... what a voodoo.. I played veteran dungeon and I completed it all. We had 1 guy after we wiped about 8 times in a boss, he said "dps is low", but here is the thing, it proved NOT to be the dps. It just needed a different approach.

And we did it all.

My only complaint is, that the group finder at least in veteran ranks, its not good at all! It makes groups without healing and tanks! If many dps apply for grouping up, the system is making groups without tanks and heal!! I am a healer, but I ended up with 3 players, all dps. 1 of the dps players, was able to tank. Thats how we did it.

All the dungeons I ve played in ESO, bosses, just need different approach, not high dps. If you are clever and approach it differently each time something goes wrong, u dont need DPS freakshows.

Darzil

The skills/lines do need more balance almost certainly. I'm sure it'll come in time. The question will be in how much time. Melee should always (I believe) be stronger than range solo at least, as you have to kill a monster in the time they take to kill you, rather than the time they take to kill you plus the time they take to reach you. Grouped they also have to cope with area damage effects more, usually, so spend more time moving with lower dps.

If a dps meter is all you need to measure combat effectiveness though then it's the content that has the issue. DPS race is such an incredibly boring, divisive mechanic. (But then rewarding players defeating hard content with drops to make them better to make the content easier is a crazy mechanic too, and yet so many games don't seem to realise that)

ShintaiDK

As a VR10 tank I decline elitist people. There is simply nothing worse in the game that such people. I rather endure gold sellers, bots and what not than these people.

AngryNord

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

Two-handed weapon wielders are so rare in ESO, that if one is near me, I actually make note of it. It doesn't happen often.

My Heavy-armour Nord Templar Carries a two-handed Axe..
Doesn't really end up using it much though... Mostly just spam Silver Bolts and Aedric Spear, and then a whack With the Axe when the enemy is reduced to a sliver of Health...

Hrithmus

Ahhhh. Finally. Man i wish i had my old post about a month ago bashing DPS meters and all these little jerk off's said "If you dont like add-ons just leave"


Soooooo funny. Welcome to the land of the nerds

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

I wrote a massive wall of text here. Deleted it and replaced it with this.
TLDR: physical weapons are used to compliment skill trees - the issue is that magicka based weapons are SIMPLE to optimize damage with.

Nooblet

I dunno about bow, but the Dest staff line sux other than impluse/other morph of it. The melee skill lines seem significantly better, as other players have already pointed out. So is the whole argument based off of one sorc build which utilizes animation canceling?