Should they nerv the Sorcerer Teleport

Obscure

No

KoooZ wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

I found myself smiling and having too much fun. That's when I know an ability is OP and needs a nerf.

Most lol ever... that a class is actually enjoyable means it's time to crush it. How about if everyone was happy and enjoyed their class... that would just be horrible for a .. game.. meant for fun...

But in PvP, if you have fun it means someone else had less fun. Its like the lion king circle of fun, or a zero sum gain , or the highlander where there can be only one and if I kill you I gain your fun.

That's got to be the worst logic I've seen in a month...

It's PvP, player versus player, kill or be killed. You have fun out of enjoying the game, not in winning. Winning is just an affirmation of skill. If you aren't winning the other guy was better than you, period. Fun is not contingent on winning, fun is what happens between the beginning and when a winner is declared. If all you think is fun is winning, there are dire implications for your comprehension of what competition is and why it permiates every facet of human behavior.

Entitled little kiddies presume they are the best without having ever earned that claim and cry when they lose presuming 1) The other guy must be cheating or 2) The other guy is exploiting broken mechanics and needs to be nerfed. What these little b****es should be thinking is "how do I keep this from happening again, because I was clearly just shown I'm very much not even close to the best." The sting of loss drives normal well adjusted people who think critically, and improve. Fall down on your skateboard? Learn to get better, so you don't next time. Don't cry and say gravity is OP and needs nerfed, that's just f***ing stupid.

The excessive inability of players to be honest with themselves and think critically of their ability and character builds strategy, then improve based on those assertions, is staggering. First, get over yourselves, second get better, third crush the scrubby cheese ball tactics that so offensively out witted you before. Fourth, enjoy what an earned victory feels like.

LadyChaos

No

KoooZ wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

I found myself smiling and having too much fun. That's when I know an ability is OP and needs a nerf.

Most lol ever... that a class is actually enjoyable means it's time to crush it. How about if everyone was happy and enjoyed their class... that would just be horrible for a .. game.. meant for fun...

But in PvP, if you have fun it means someone else had less fun. Its like the lion king circle of fun, or a zero sum gain , or the highlander where there can be only one and if I kill you I gain your fun.

1. you think we don't die?

You know how ridiculous it is that I know on every fight if I bolt (knowing this is my death) they will do everything to turn their backs on my friends hiding behind the rocks to kill me abandoning reason, because my ball of light is annoying them. I love being the bait because it is satisfying as hell to watch a bunch of seaguls go "Mine" Mine" "Mine"... It is one of my favorite forms of death in the game.

2. Mobility isn't JUST about getting away.

Just 30 minutes ago, player chased me around the field, I was OOM entire time nothing able to kill her, but she kept chasing me as I turned her back to my buddy sneaking up behind her and I just stood there and blocked while he NB ninja jumped her face. I'm sure she is raging at bolt too, even though she took the bait. We were surrounded by enemies, but she thought it wasn't fair someone would get away... I wasn't getting away, I was pulling.

the build is fun not because it's about "getting away", it's fun because it suits a play-style some players prefer. Prolly as enjoyable as gankers enjoy heir stealth and stun... DKs love their AoE/Chains... Healers love to be needed...

If YOUR not having fun with YOUR preferred class, get that fixed, don't try to make others miserable just because they found a good fit for them. If your not enjoying YOUR class because someone got away... that's not imbalance that is never happy IMO.

Jadakin

As a DK, I just thought I would drop in and say it's nice not to see the nerf bat being swung our way for once.

Halrloprillalar

I haven't seen something special about it

"OH NOES I DIDN'T CC IN TIME AND HE'S GONE"

really, that is the gist of your complain. Not to be rude and cliche, but ... l2p.

batswarm and mistform spam on the other hand, needs a nerf.

remraub16_ESO

Yes

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

Varivox9 wrote: »

In PvP, yes. PvE, no.

My first run in with this was when a sorc tried to single me out, I almost had him (1-2 more hits and he would have died) and then all of a sudden the sorc disappeared off my screen and I watched him port 7-8 times with no hope of ever catching him. If nothing else, just increase the mana requirement.

This complaint makes no sense. You are complaining that it worked as intended as a means of escape from a losing situation. It already has a huge mana cost, it does not need increased. What they do need to investigate and fix though are some hacks I have seen. I myself play a sorc and about 7-8 teles after a fight is all you are going to get even dropping a potion. However, I have chased some other sorcs that obviously were hacking cause even I couldn't keep up. Watched one tele 15 times. When you do the math even with a pot there is simply no way to do that legit. I have all the same reduction they do. It isn't the ability you all want fixed it is whatever exploit they have found to go with it that you really want fixed. Bolt escape itself is fine as is. The cheat they have found though that is what needs to go.

Being Able to teleport 7-8 times is unnecessary for PvE (get a horse!) and completely broken in PvP.

Since there are no Cooldowns, increasing the Magicka cost is the only way to go,but I'd rather see an increase in magicka cost per time you use it. That way you can still use it when you're on low magicka to try to engage/escape (both in PvE and PvP) but not spam it.

LadyChaos

No

Jadakin wrote: »

As a DK, I just thought I would drop in and say it's nice not to see the nerf bat being swung our way for once.

you guys know bolt was already nerfed, and there's been no hint it would continue to be nerfed again?

remraub16_ESO wrote: »

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

Varivox9 wrote: »

In PvP, yes. PvE, no.

My first run in with this was when a sorc tried to single me out, I almost had him (1-2 more hits and he would have died) and then all of a sudden the sorc disappeared off my screen and I watched him port 7-8 times with no hope of ever catching him. If nothing else, just increase the mana requirement.

This complaint makes no sense. You are complaining that it worked as intended as a means of escape from a losing situation. It already has a huge mana cost, it does not need increased. What they do need to investigate and fix though are some hacks I have seen. I myself play a sorc and about 7-8 teles after a fight is all you are going to get even dropping a potion. However, I have chased some other sorcs that obviously were hacking cause even I couldn't keep up. Watched one tele 15 times. When you do the math even with a pot there is simply no way to do that legit. I have all the same reduction they do. It isn't the ability you all want fixed it is whatever exploit they have found to go with it that you really want fixed. Bolt escape itself is fine as is. The cheat they have found though that is what needs to go.

Being Able to teleport 7-8 times is unnecessary for PvE (get a horse!) and completely broken in PvP.

Since there are no Cooldowns, increasing the Magicka cost is the only way to go,but I'd rather see an increase in magicka cost per time you use it. That way you can still use it when you're on low magicka to try to engage/escape (both in PvE and PvP) but not spam it.

In PvE 7-8 times is called kiting which is a bread and butter staple for many soloers.

In PvP... this is the same argument of sour grapes "I deserve to kill everything I touch" mentality, when there are the abilities that can drag us to the fight or gap closer right to us, that cost nearly the same amount of magicka already. How right is it to make it start off more expensive than the other classes counters for the spell.

Increase cost of bolt; Increase cost of all the CCs that counter it, that have the similar base value now. It's the light armor that reduces is by ~30%, everyone has access to it. If you say yo are unwilling to wear light armor then it demonstrates the trade-off.

Hail_Sithis

No

remraub16_ESO wrote: »

Being Able to teleport 7-8 times is unnecessary for PvE (get a horse!) and completely broken in PvP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

You want completely broken? How about dragon-knights that are able to throw down massive AOE carnage, or how templars are basically the most adaptable, or how nightblades are able to destroy you if they manage to sneak up on-

CLASS. DIVERSITY.

You really need to just stop posting when you have virtually no clue what you are talking about.

This isn't SWTOR. Whining like a *** isn't going to get you results.

Memnock

No

@ Hail_Sithis Unfortunately , whining like a lil puss is getting results , Vampire Drain was nerfed along with the Bat Swarm Ultimate . The Devs are so fast to "fix" whatever the players see as "broken" that they don't take the time to actually balance the skill lines properly. I mean , seriously , vampire passives along with the feeding stages have been broken since Beta and were 1 month into game release and they still aren't fixed , but they did go with the nerf bat logic , since a lot of people complained.

Don't get me wrong , i completely agree that Bat Swarm thing was broken and needed to be fixed , but without without fixing the rest of the stuff as well in the process , stuff that has been reported broken before the god damn game release, i can honestly say that i am losing faith in their ability to manage the game properly and prioritize what needs to be done.

The above was just an example of frustrating it is to play at the moment TESO and i am finding myself less and less motivated to log on to the game but i digress , so on topic of Sorc Bolt Escape , seriously , every class in the game has a gap closer that is 30+ meters in PVP , not to mention there are also gap closers tied into 2 weapon skill lines as well , with that being said , if you don't have the necesarry reflexes to intercept a sorc who's teleport skill has the same cover distance as your bloody gap closers , especially since those gap closers have no CD either, please try to learn what your skills do.

As a last note, if you people insist on giving Bold Escape a larger magicka activation cost , i agree with this , as long as the gap closers arr given the same as well , so if BE costs 700 Magicka to activate , then all gap closers should cost 700 magicka/stamina to activate as well. That way , we as sorcs don't spam the skill to get away , and you don't spam the skill to constantly bash our brains out. Would that be satisfactory ?

Travail

Yes

Hail_Sithis wrote: »

remraub16_ESO wrote: »

Being Able to teleport 7-8 times is unnecessary for PvE (get a horse!) and completely broken in PvP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

You want completely broken? How about dragon-knights that are able to throw down massive AOE carnage, or how templars are basically the most adaptable, or how nightblades are able to destroy you if they manage to sneak up on-

CLASS. DIVERSITY.

You really need to just stop posting when you have virtually no clue what you are talking about.

This isn't SWTOR. Whining like a *** isn't going to get you results.

No one is saying Bolt Escape should be REMOVED (which is the only way class "diversity" would suffer.)

If they used a scaling magicka cost on Bolt Escape (so it cost more to use it repeatedly) you would still have it, and it would still be useful. Alternatively, if they added a 3 second cooldown to Bolt Escape, you would still have it, and it would still be useful.

Your class would be no less diverse after a reasonable change to Bolt Escape. No one is saying Sorcs should be homogenized with the other classes, or that Bolt Escape should be made to be useless. Bolt Escape is cool. If they removed it, I'd be the first person to sign the petition to bring it back. But that doesn't mean I think it's fine the way it is.

-Travail.

Screenrocker

No

There is nothing overpowered with bolt escape. No sorc can kill 2, 3 or more people with bolt-escape, he can only escape with this skill. The only Problem here is in the head of the "bolt-escape-victim", because he don't get his so "well-deserved and lawful kill"... omg

I have a sorcerer-char too, VET1. He is a PVE meele dps/tanky, and I use bolt escape too, for defense, mobility and FUN. And with my class-build and clothes I can use bolt-escape max 3 times, then I am at approx 20% magika. And while using bolt-escape and a short time after bolt-escape, I don't regenerate magika.

A sorc who escapes with 7-8 bolt-escapes has obviously started the escape with full mana. In my opinion, there are not much possible reasons for that. One reason could be, that the sorc was attacked from stealth and his healthpoints dropped hard during the stun, so that the only way for the sorc is the ful-escape with burning all magika for it. This is what I would do as a sorc ... specially when I am alone and questing in cyrodiil. I dont like these players, who sneaking around the quest-areas to farm kills at solo-questers.

KoooZ

@Obscure‌
@LadyChaos‌

That was a joke using sarcasm and excessive movie references to make it obvious.

Relax.

Still_Mind

Yes

Yes, but by a small margin. It doesn't need to be nerfed to the ground, but it needs mechanisms that discourage spamming, like progressing cost increase (Ionized: Bolt Escape increased by 10% per stack, 5 second duration).

In Extra Credits terms, it's a "FOO Strategy (First Order Optimal Strategy)". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Obscure

No

KoooZ wrote: »

@Obscure‌
@LadyChaos‌

That was a joke using sarcasm and excessive movie references to make it obvious.

Relax.

well color me trolled.

SexyVette07

No

Just to clarify.... the most threatening ability that Sorcerers have.... is them running away?

Sounds like they need buffs more than nerfs...

Travail

Yes

Still_Mind wrote: »

Yes, but by a small margin. It doesn't need to be nerfed to the ground, but it needs mechanisms that discourage spamming, like progressing cost increase (Ionized: Bolt Escape increased by 10% per stack, 5 second duration).

In Extra Credits terms, it's a "FOO Strategy (First Order Optimal Strategy)". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Pretty much that.

The problem right now is that, while there may -arguably- be some decent counters to Bolt Escape, it's currently part of every Sorcerer strategy. It may not be successful in saving your life absolutely every time, but Sorcerers would still be crazy to even think about taking it off of their bar in PvP.

It's a great tool for any Sorc build, and every single Sorc should be taking it as their 5th ability. That's the current state of things. While many players in this thread are arguing that this ability is fine as it is, none of them have stated that there's anything more powerful out there right now. None of them are saying, "I don't even slot Bolt Escape anymore, because such-and-such tactic is actually better."

If something qualifies as a FOO strategy (which Bolt Escape most certainly is) then that's what we should hear some veteran Sorc players saying. If the veteran players are still using a FOO strategy, there's a problem. Currently, experienced players are simply finding better ways to use Bolt Escape (using it with Immovable, for example) not alternatives to it. And it's not like players haven't had time to experiment, with the game having been out for over a month.

It's incredibly easy for a new player to come in and start spamming Bolt Escape to increase their survivability in PvP, which is not necessarily a bad thing. The problem arises when more experienced players still find this skill to be the best mobility tool available to them, more than good enough for even the most skilled player to want on their bar. It's a FOO strategy that currently isn't being abandoned by anyone in favor of more powerful tools, because the fact is there aren't any more powerful tools.

-Travail.

Arreyanne

Yes

No one should be able to go halfway across the map with one ability

Memnock

No

@ Travail would your idea of balancing a skill that helps a sorc escape , be also applied to the other gap closers that the rest of the classes have along with the 2 weapon skill lines that have this as well ? Cuz right now , i am using bolt escape and like you said it is not a guaranteed escape , if i encounter players who actually read what the skills and morphs of the abilities they are using are doing.

I met a DK that consistently pulled me back whenever i tried to get away , then a templar with 2h that charged me and jabbed me to death , again situation i couldn't escape with Bold Escape.

Now players like there 2 come around once in a blue moon , but they are out there none the less.

All i see when looking at the posts here ,is a lot of people who try to pvp in first person , because if you zoom out and see in which direction the sorc bolting you can FREAKING CATCH UP TO HIM , with either your class gap closers , or if you have a a 2H or sword and shield.

So if the sorcs only method of escape is to be nerfed , by increasing its mana cost , then the other gap closers should be brought in line as well. Like i said in an earlier post , as an example , if Bold Escape should cost 7-800 mana , then the rest of the pulls and charges should cost 7-800 mana/stamina as well.

Memnock

No

Sorry for the double post , but i forgot to mention something .

I've encountered this sort of bitching about a skill in SWTOR. At game launch , the mercenary class there had a skill called Tracer Missile ( TM ) , that was a cast and did a but load of damage. Mercenaries ruled the pvp scene for a few weeks until people found out that every bloody class in the game had access to an Interrupt ability so whenever you see a merc casting TM , you only had to press interrupt to gut their damage but still the terribads there complained about it and Byoware nerfed the skill as well and because of this mercs became garbage in competitive pvp there for an extremely long time.

I am getting the feeling that this will start to happen here as well soon. I mean hell they already started with the vampire skill line , the lol bat swarm exploit needed a fix but i did not hear any complaints from anyone in pvp about Vampiric Drain being OP and they took a big dump on that as well , with their hasty "fixes" , soo yeah...

Surinen

No

no, they should not. It is not an attack ability.What ZoS should do is hire some psychologist and make a pep talk video with him about "how to get rid of stress when you cannot kill your opponent". Many people seem to suffer from almostgothimdemmia

dracobains_ESO

No

I find it irritating and underhanded with the way some players have been using it, but I would rather there be a counter to it like CC actually working on the sorcs instead of them getting a free get out of dodge every time they bite off more than they can chew.
Currently I see a small portion of Sorcs sneaking up ganking one person and getting the hell out of the way when anyone else challenges them. If I pick a fight I will stand my ground until I am dead cause really what does it matter? So personally just make it so CC works on them and they cannot do this sort of behavior in PVP without consequences. Being able to attack with impunity and get away nearly every time is a bit much but not worthy of a nerf no matter how irritating.

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO

No

If the Sorc teleport gets nerfed, Sorcerer might just well lube up and bend over.

Disclosure : I'm a pyromancer DK.

vicNBitis

DKs get a "Win" button.

Sorcerers get a "Can't Lose" button.

Everyone else gets a "Shut the Hell Up", well, not a button. Maybe one of those knobs you had to turn 270 degrees to cycle a light on and off? Too much?

dsalter

Yes

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

Varivox9 wrote: »

In PvP, yes. PvE, no.

My first run in with this was when a sorc tried to single me out, I almost had him (1-2 more hits and he would have died) and then all of a sudden the sorc disappeared off my screen and I watched him port 7-8 times with no hope of ever catching him. If nothing else, just increase the mana requirement.

This complaint makes no sense. You are complaining that it worked as intended as a means of escape from a losing situation. It already has a huge mana cost, it does not need increased. What they do need to investigate and fix though are some hacks I have seen. I myself play a sorc and about 7-8 teles after a fight is all you are going to get even dropping a potion. However, I have chased some other sorcs that obviously were hacking cause even I couldn't keep up. Watched one tele 15 times. When you do the math even with a pot there is simply no way to do that legit. I have all the same reduction they do. It isn't the ability you all want fixed it is whatever exploit they have found to go with it that you really want fixed. Bolt escape itself is fine as is. The cheat they have found though that is what needs to go.

cost reductions from storm passives. the 3% cost reduction from crafting the seducer set and the cost reduction enchants.

SinisterJoint

Yes

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Seriously? You do realize they are not balancing to pvp right?

Are YOU serious? Why do you need to bolt escape across a pve zone? The mobs stop chasing after 2 bolts. So why would you need more than that? Its overpowered in pvp plain and simple. The magika cost needs to be doubled plain and simple. 3-4 bolts is a large enough distance in between you and any player.

Ive seen sorcs get hit by crystal fragments, and bolt from the knocked down position lolol

Either way, I'm a sorc and I approve this nerf.

NordJitsu

No

Nerv it?

I don't know what that means, but if its anything like nerf, I don't like it.

ForTheRealm

Yes

youtube.com/watch?v=GnrqZzKPbQw

I am sorry, but if you defend Bolt Escape in the current form, your approach must be "not to lose" and not "to win"...

Adernath

No

remraub16_ESO wrote: »

Being Able to teleport 7-8 times is unnecessary for PvE (get a horse!) and completely broken in PvP.

This statement is an example of people who come to the forum to cry for a nerf and have absolutely no idea about this skill whatsoever.

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

youtube.com/watch?v=GnrqZzKPbQw

I am sorry, but if you defend Bolt Escape in the current form, your approach must be "not to lose" and not "to win"...

LOL just LOL... of course this video comes from a NB and the first thing you see is that he opens combat out of stealth against his unprepared opponent. You dont use mount or speed potions, you dont use tab to search him ... just walk around and complain.

"preventing him from loosing the fight" NO you won the fight if he ran way, but dont realize this. All i see is you go mad for not getting your kill.

And a sidenote: If you prepared yourself and ambush someone out of stealth you cant blame this player for getting away afterwards to prepare/recover himself.

You know what? why dont we simply remove stealth from the game as well? All you do is ambush on unprepared targets. This is similar to the bullcrap people crying about BE.

ForTheRealm

Yes

Adernath wrote: »

remraub16_ESO wrote: »

LOL just LOL... of course this video comes from a NB and the first thing you see is that he opens combat out of stealth against his unprepared opponent. You dont use mount or speed potions, you dont use tab to search him ... just walk around and complain.

Please watch the whole movie (and listen to audio) before commenting, e.g. the first scenes were recorded to show effectiveness of gap closers like Charge vs BE. It just presented that after 2 zips, Sorcerer is already too far for any gap closer like Charge.
I LFMAO when I read you suggest to use mount to follow Sorcerer. I can understand that as a Sorc you probably rarely use a mount. So just believe me it is not effective when you need fast turn around, change directions or go between rocks. And it may be a surprise as well for you, it is not possible to fight when you are on mount;-) And when you dismount, again Sorc needs 2 zips....

ps. The recording is not mine, but I find it informative enough to link it to the thread.

Nijjion

Yes

Adernath wrote: »

"preventing him from loosing the fight" NO you won the fight if he ran way, but dont realize this. All i see is you go mad for not getting your kill.

Well a draw technically. Though I don't see it as 'winning' if they can just come back and add on another fight of yours because they didn't die before. That's the whole reason of why it's such an OP skill in a RvR game when noone else has the option to.

SinisterJoint

Yes

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO wrote: »

If the Sorc teleport gets nerfed, Sorcerer might just well lube up and bend over.

Disclosure : I'm a pyromancer DK.

If this isn't a blatent exaggeration, IDK what is.

I'm a sorc, I don't use bolt escape (tried it but didn't mesh with my build) and I do just fine in pvp. This ability is not needed as a sorc if they play their class right.

If you are choosing a close range sorc, well, then that is your problem. But being able to outrun a horse is not blanaced, its OP. 3 Bolts is OOR of any ability that could possibly hit you. It needs a cost increase.