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Area-of-Effect Abilities - Maximum Target Cap Clarification

  • Larira
    Larira
    ✭✭✭
    Seems many whiners palyed happily until now, when told that " All AoE effect abilities in ESO have a max target limit of six, and always have. "


    That is not true:
    To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

    Many abilities did not have a cap.
    Feel free to quit the game, no one stops you!

    Maybe they will. But please do not whine when Zenimax jumps on the free to play train because there were too many quitters.

    Greetings
  • Kingslayer
    Kingslayer
    ✭✭✭
    The fact I can hit x 12 with lightning flood a mediocre aoe ability yet this isn't mentioned as being fixed says it all.
  • popatiberiuoneb18_ESO
    Travail wrote: »
    Smaller, organized forces should absolutely be able to take on larger forces. Maybe not 8 v. 100, but they should be able to make up for some disadvantage in numbers by using superior tactics. With an AoE cap of 6, this truly is impossible. All of the advantage goes to a zerg, even an unorganized one.

    There's a reason population imbalance in campaigns is such a big issue. AoE caps are a major contributor to that. There's a reason everyone runs with a zerg, and very few people run off to try to find smaller skirmishes. Zergs would offer strength in numbers even without AoE caps; but with AoE caps, every nearby player literally acts as a damage shield. Each nearby ally above the cap of 6 literally gives you an additional chance to dodge every AoE thrown your way, significantly reducing the effectiveness of these attacks.

    There are many problems with Cyrodiil. AoE caps have served to make many of these problems worse, and I suspect these problems will never be properly addressed while AoE caps remain in ESO. This is a move in the wrong direction.

    If some abilities are too powerful when they are able to hit an unlimited number of players, then make it so only the first 6 players hit trigger secondary effects; things like life leech and ultimate gain. But the damage components of attacks, as well as direct heals, should not be capped.

    -Travail.

    again you don't understand. the AoE cap has been in play since day one. We just didn't know about it. Read the post again. there are 5 abilities that were not following the 6 player AoE cap so they are BUGS. If you have been playing this game and having fun and winning battled this whole time, guess what? You only had a 6 player cap less you were using those 5 abilities. Less the ability specifically says it affects more then 6 people, its 6 people. This topic is like beating a dead horse already. The game has not significantly changed one bit yet this is the most talked about garbage.

    We didnt know about an aoe cap of 6 that wasnt in the tooltips or on many of the actual skills...yes..i do not read minds nor do i belive anything that im being told. There were way more then 5 abilities withouth cap and most of them are now capped. This is a fact and even ZOS admited to "fixing" some of them.. If you think this is not a significant change then i have no words...i do agree with you on 1 thing tho, this "bug fix" is garbage.

    If you choose to belive whatever ZOS is telling you feel free to, its your choice and i respect that. If you have any other arguments besides "ZOS said so" or "ZOS thinks this is good" by all means, im willing to listen.

    What makes you think that you are even entitled to know every aspect of the game? Just because you pay 15 bucks a month doesn't mean you hold any controlling stock in what the company does or says. Your a consumer. Your only options are to pay for the product and support the product, or stop paying for the product and not support it. They do not have to answer to any of us. If you want a say in what the company should or should not release, perhaps you should go buy some stocks.

    Yes, i am a consumer and a paying customer for ZoS and ofcourse im not entitled to knowing "every aspect of the game" but i am entitled to knowing what i buy before i pay 70 euros for a produc that is nothing like what was advertised. That isnt even what im complaining about, i simply complain about the aoe cap as theis is the topic of this thread last time i checked.

    I wouldnt care less about the money, the response above was to a player who claimed the aoe cap was ingame ever since day one and we didnt know about it thus it didnt hurt us and pointed out that it wasnt entirely true, there was no aoe cap for many skills and ZOS didnt even hint us about such an intent, there was no way of knowing something that wasnt there. Dont take my answer out of context.

    Last time i checked players were entitled to their opinion and this is why ZoS is running these forums (at least i hope so). Everyone is welcome to joining the discussion and bring arguments.

    Offtopic: Thanks for suggesting to buy ZoS shares but i wouldnt invest in a company that runs their business model and i doubt i could even afford enough to make a difference.
  • popatiberiuoneb18_ESO
    Seems many whiners palyed happily until now, when told that " All AoE effect abilities in ESO have a max target limit of six, and always have. "

    Feel free to quit the game, no one stops you!

    And that would fix the aoe cap problem how?
  • Neoklis
    Neoklis
    Soul Shriven
    by Nox_Aeterna


    Nope , if they want , they can reduce the radius or just make the skill weaker , but it should hit* ALL targets.

    I have no use for skills i cant trust to hit, which is the case here.

    Honestly , this is one hell of a stupid change.
    Post edited by Nox_Aeterna on April 25

    “It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
    ― Bilbo Baggins, The Lord of the Rings

    ESO exploration at its finest.

    Flag


    Quote · Insightful 23Agree Awesome 1LOL





    HaduisHaduis ✭✭✭

    April 25 edited April 26




    No
    I've made a few posts about this topic.

    One thing I will say: vamp needs a nerf.

    I see two types of arguments about the changes.

    On one hand we have people (like myself) who don't like this change because it negates the importance of skill, positioning, timing, and teamwork.

    On the other hand, you have people who do like this change, because in their opinion AOE abilities are overpowered.

    AOE abilities have a direct counter. They aren't one hit "I win" buttons. You literally have to be within a small radius of the spells effect. Some would argue that spreading out or crowd control is a counter to this.

    On the other hand, zergs have a counter. This counter is uncapped aoe abilities. If aoe abilities are given a cap then this counterplay disappears.

    With that said, I haven't seen anything else that really screams overpowered to me (outside of vamp abilities). I've gotten caught with bad positioning and lived because I spread out from the clump as soon as I realized AOEs were being dropped.

    If you and a dozen other people stand in range of 5 people spamming impulse, you should die. It isn't that hard to spread out. It isn't that hard to use crowd control.

    Let me give you some perspective on my thoughts on the issue:

    Pretend Bob plays a melee class. Bob only has melee abilities on his bar. I'm talking a bar filled to the brim with 7 meter range abilities. He has no gap closers, CC immunities, etc.


    Now say Bob gets attacked by a bow nightblade. The nightblade has snares, knock backs, and ranged damage.

    Bob tries to fight back, but he doesn't have the proper abilities on his bars. Every time he gets close, the nightblade gets away from him.

    Bob dies, and gets upset. Bob thinks that ranged abilities need a nerf. He doesn't think that the way he plays the game needs to change, he's doing FINE. It's those NIGHTBLADES that are too overpowered, they need a nerf.

    Now if Bob had some gap closers and crowd control on his bars, he would have had a chance. Just because Bob doesn't understand the counters to a specific playstyle doesn't mean that the playstyle is inherently broken, it just means that Bob needs to find a way to beat that playstyle.

    PvP games, especially the best ones, rely on an ever-changing metagame. New strategies evolve to beat the "best strategies" that exist. B beats A, so B becomes popular. C beats B, so now C becomes popular. Just because something is difficult to counter doesn't mean it deserves a massive nerf. Only when strategies and abilities have no counter at all do they need to be nerfed.

    I said it before and I'll say it again:

    Area of Effect abilities have a direct counter (read: they can be beaten)

    Spread out.

    Don't stand close to each other and you obliterate the usefulness of AOE abilities.

    Use crowd control. Have you seen what happens to these smaller numbers when they get crowd controlled, even for a few seconds? They get annihilated.
    Post edited by Haduis on April 26


    I loved his Post from the poll thread so I figured i'd paste it here. Zenimax seems to fix problems the easy way and not the right way. That is starting to get really old, really quick ( yes my voice on that may not matter) first the boss timers, vamps ( justified or not) now this. Is it me or did this game go live way before it's ready? Don't even get me started on how we need to grind XP to better our characters. What happened to TES character progression? I thought this was "The Elder Scrolls" Online but I digress, no AoE caps is this man's insignificant opinion.
  • torstenb16_ESO8
    Our Tanks in my Guild had problems to hold the aggro from npcs, maybe also a problem of the aoe cap ? If yes, it should be removed.
  • popatiberiuoneb18_ESO
    Our Tanks in my Guild had problems to hold the aggro from npcs, maybe also a problem of the aoe cap ? If yes, it should be removed.

    Not a tank myself but im only aware of single target taunts in ESO. Ofcourse a tank doese aoe mobs and in this regard, if more then 6 mobs he will only hit 6, thus aggroing 6 :D

    There are plenty of sittuations where you fight more then 6 mobs and im talking single pulls where splitting is not possible, they are still doable but in some sittuations you might get wiped (ie: not being able to hit/cc ranged mobs while they mow down your squishies). All in all, the pve content was easy to start with, even if such an issue generating cap was introduced, its stil easy to handle and the wipes dont happen much more often then they used to.

    Would love an ZOS representative to explain how exactly they "designed" the aoe skills to have a 6 cap but included pulls with 12 mobs + in the dungeons and what were they thinking when they did so :)
  • frwinters_ESO
    frwinters_ESO
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    I wonder if its mostly Americans who are complaining about this stuff or Europeans.
  • janenkel
    janenkel
    Elidas wrote: »
    AoE cap is not the solution, it just makes zergs more viable and it makes the game less realistic.

    So, 8 guys destroying an army is realistic ?

    "Zerg" or whatever you name it, is a tactic like any other, that can be countered by other tactics.

    I do not think that after seeing the 64 Abrams "Zerg" on Baghdad, Saddam Hussein says "OMG this is unfair Gonerf™", this is war, its just law of numbers, and what we see in all (war, rts, pewpew ...) games are inspired by real stuff.

    So using siege weapons to spread out a "zerg" is way more realistic.





  • ChairGraveyard
    ChairGraveyard
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    janenkel wrote: »
    Elidas wrote: »
    AoE cap is not the solution, it just makes zergs more viable and it makes the game less realistic.

    So, 8 guys destroying an army is realistic ?

    "Zerg" or whatever you name it, is a tactic like any other, that can be countered by other tactics.

    I do not think that after seeing the 64 Abrams "Zerg" on Baghdad, Saddam Hussein says "OMG this is unfair Gonerf™", this is war, its just law of numbers, and what we see in all (war, rts, pewpew ...) games are inspired by real stuff.

    So using siege weapons to spread out a "zerg" is way more realistic.




    1st) It's physically impossible to stack items in the same actual physical location in the real world, so you pretending that this is some sort of military tactic is patently absurd.

    Further, if you actually knew jack about military tactics you'd understand that EVERYONE BUNCHING UP IS NOT SOMETHING THE MILITARY DOES EVER.

    Why? Because explosives. I.e, AoE. So trying to claim that everyone bunching up is some legit modern day military tactic is not only backwards, it's PLAIN WRONG.

    Tanks do not drive all bunched up. Soldiers do not move bunched up close together.

    Ever heard of GRENADES!? Well that's why.


    2nd) Yes, 8 people that throw down AREA OF EFFECT MAGIC should be able to kill the 20 idiots stacking on top of eachother - fire does not magically only hit 6 people - that's insane.
    Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 16, 2014 4:59PM
  • janenkel
    janenkel

    Hey easy man xD.

    I talk about Zerg not multiboxing ... And it is definitively a tactic that can be countered, NOT by using the "jump in the action and spam buttons" technique (in fact i think this should be the more useless one ^^).

    Here some anti-Zerg tactics (I don't want to list them all xD):

    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/anti-zerg-tactics.165377/

    Some of them are applicable to all sort of MP games anyways.

    (Yhea i'am a PS2 player :p , so what)




  • popatiberiuoneb18_ESO
    janenkel wrote: »
    Elidas wrote: »
    AoE cap is not the solution, it just makes zergs more viable and it makes the game less realistic.

    So, 8 guys destroying an army is realistic ?

    "Zerg" or whatever you name it, is a tactic like any other, that can be countered by other tactics.

    I do not think that after seeing the 64 Abrams "Zerg" on Baghdad, Saddam Hussein says "OMG this is unfair Gonerf™", this is war, its just law of numbers, and what we see in all (war, rts, pewpew ...) games are inspired by real stuff.

    So using siege weapons to spread out a "zerg" is way more realistic.



    janenkel wrote: »

    Hey easy man xD.

    I talk about Zerg not multiboxing ... And it is definitively a tactic that can be countered, NOT by using the "jump in the action and spam buttons" technique (in fact i think this should be the more useless one ^^).

    Here some anti-Zerg tactics (I don't want to list them all xD):

    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/anti-zerg-tactics.165377/

    Some of them are applicable to all sort of MP games anyways.

    (Yhea i'am a PS2 player :p , so what)



    Linking a thread from another game that is not even the same genre as ESO...thread that specificaly describes tactics IN that game using that games's skills and perks...well...for the sake of the argument...altough your post is invalid and unrelated to anything in this thread...there is no aoe cap in planetside 2, reason why some of those tactics actualy work ;)
  • janenkel
    janenkel

    Yes you're right that's not the same game but i was just talking about tactics in general.(Plus in ESO everyone can hide for ambush stuff)

    But tanks = Siege weapons
    And i agree with that a footman can't do the job of a siege weapon, so aoe cap is ok, to balance the whole battleground.
    Edited by janenkel on May 16, 2014 5:44PM

  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    AoE cap is a good idea. These organized teams of elitists think they can kill 10-15 people at once and call it teamwork and skill. Using one skill in the destruction tree and an aoe ultimate is not kill, its just a killzone.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • darkdruidssb14_ESO
    darkdruidssb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    The whole AoE caps thing is getting blown way out of proportion.

    The people complaining about stacking and wrecking everything in their path... that works until they hit an objective that matters. You aren't going to "zerg stack" through flaming oil and catapults. Siege weapons don't have an aoe cap. If 50 people walk into flaming oil then all 50 people will get hit. If 100 people walk into flaming oil then 100 people will get hit.

    So "zerg stacking" can work in the open field between objectives.... Who cares? It's only going to work until siege shows up to wipe them out.

    I play EP and we are usually out numbered. One night we held off a huge AD zerg at an outpost of all things because we had well placed oil and catapults. DKs in the corners to lock enemies into aoe. They couldn't take the outpost because stacking did nothing for them.

    I played a game that didn't put aoe caps in until too late... called Warhammer Online. I was one of those OP Bright Wizards sitting on castle walls all day raining down fire on enemies. I could melt entire warbands if they were stacked close together. It was stupid... but fun as hell while I took advantage of it.

    I don't see a reason not to have aoe caps honestly. There is such a thing as too much aoe. I think too much aoe is more crippling than limiting specific abilities. As long as the ones that matter, like siege weapons, stay effective then it shouldn't be an issue.
  • zaria
    zaria
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    Now I will first say I don't support the target cap, if cap is needed for performance they should not have much issue making it far larger like 24.

    However I fail to see how huge impact it has, if no cap healing will have no cap either and the restoration staff area heal heals a lot and everybody can use it.
    In short it should be possible to heal trough most dot damage using enough healers.
    Its not an screaming lack of healers in ESO.

    Yes the cap make aoe vastly less useful as aoe heal will heal the most injured so it will not kill if they have a few healers.

    The only effect here is that groups who is organized enough to stay thigh together will have an benefit, that is good casual guild or bad pvp guild will be stronger against the good pvp guilds.

    Random idiot zerg have problems staying together even if forced to as in defending an objective.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    The whole AoE caps thing is getting blown way out of proportion.

    The people complaining about stacking and wrecking everything in their path... that works until they hit an objective that matters. You aren't going to "zerg stack" through flaming oil and catapults. Siege weapons don't have an aoe cap. If 50 people walk into flaming oil then all 50 people will get hit. If 100 people walk into flaming oil then 100 people will get hit.

    So "zerg stacking" can work in the open field between objectives.... Who cares? It's only going to work until siege shows up to wipe them out.

    I play EP and we are usually out numbered. One night we held off a huge AD zerg at an outpost of all things because we had well placed oil and catapults. DKs in the corners to lock enemies into aoe. They couldn't take the outpost because stacking did nothing for them.

    I played a game that didn't put aoe caps in until too late... called Warhammer Online. I was one of those OP Bright Wizards sitting on castle walls all day raining down fire on enemies. I could melt entire warbands if they were stacked close together. It was stupid... but fun as hell while I took advantage of it.

    I don't see a reason not to have aoe caps honestly. There is such a thing as too much aoe. I think too much aoe is more crippling than limiting specific abilities. As long as the ones that matter, like siege weapons, stay effective then it shouldn't be an issue.

    Yet, there is a game called GW2..that proves Siege Weapons don't stop Zergs from taking a keep, despite being vastly more powerful then siege weapons in this game.

    I've already started seeing Zergs stack in open fields and in area's to avoid being AoE'd by other people...

    Guild Groups are already forming up like they did in GW2, and guess what..Because the aoe cap they're not small mans, They're 12-24 Mans..Hell you have people on the bloody forums talking about how 24 Mans are not a zerg, but instead that's just a "group"

    The AoE caps will run off what little small mans you have in this game, and it'll develop into the crapfest that is GW2 WvW...why we need another game to prove this to the herp a derps i'll never guess.

    By the way, Bright Wizards weren't overpowered because AoE caps weren't in place...If we went by your silly standards then Shadow Warriors and Engineer's would of been equally overpowered at blowing up people cause they had AoE Well.

    No the reason you could blow up zergs with a Bright Wizard was because the class was bloody obscene when it came to damage compared to every other AoE user.

    This is why when they nerfed all the AoE's in the game, Because of BW's....all it ended up doing was nerfing the SW/Engineer type classes that already had weak damage AoE's while making Small Mans harder to take large numbers.

    They could of easily just made BW's weaker.. and would of fixed the entire problem without introducing a cap like they did (10 people) and lowering everyone's AoE damage.


  • popatiberiuoneb18_ESO
    janenkel wrote: »

    Yes you're right that's not the same game but i was just talking about tactics in general.(Plus in ESO everyone can hide for ambush stuff)

    But tanks = Siege weapons
    And i agree with that a footman can't do the job of a siege weapon, so aoe cap is ok, to balance the whole battleground.

    I think already people pointed out that a grenade for example will not stop at 6 people, you cant compare a grenade with a tank but in that regard a grenade is better in wiping a compact mass of people.

    All in all, there are ppl with way better arguments than mine for the reality-game analogy.

    No MMO ever made tried to replicate reality, they just take reality elements and enrich it with fantasy elements. They are suposed to be a form of entertainment after all. I wouldnt like a game where i would get blisters for grasping my mace 2 tight or catch a cold if i dont hide from the rain..you get the idea :)

    Back to ESO: siege wepons are very limited in usability and easy to counter. if they would remove the red circles then meybe it would work better but then people will just complain there is no way to know if u are getting hit by a siege.

    The problem with the aoe cap is that it will not balance the battleground, it will ruin it. As no cap aoe was the only counter against the peopel blobbed up in a single mass, now there is none. You cant kill a blob with focused siege unless they sit in 1 spot not moving (wont happen, they are perma moving with rapid manuver up, purge ready).

    Note: didnt even mention the soo easy to use anti-siege bubble that reduces the damage to like nothing :)...that in case the bloob needs to stop for some reason like breaking a gate or something similar.
  • Macros_TB
    Macros_TB
    Soul Shriven
    Why not have capped utilities and uncapped damage? For example, have deep breath drain health and stun up to 3 or so people, but have the aoe burst at the end uncapped?
  • Arzarzel
    Arzarzel
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    negate magic--->max target 6 ppl u gotta be kidding me! And then it only affects 6 melees out of a 30 man zerg. yay! What about storm attronarch? also 6 people?
    Edited by Arzarzel on May 22, 2014 11:01AM
  • popatiberiuoneb18_ESO
    Arzarzel wrote: »
    negate magic--->max target 6 ppl u gotta be kidding me! And then it only affects 6 melees out of a 30 man zerg. yay! What about storm attronarch? also 6 people?

    6 RANDOM people :) to be fair, all aoe is ruined not just negate magic..even if they ever fix the lag problems, Cyrodiil is just a bad joke...after trying out Craglorn i can see why they wanted the aoe to have a cap...it actualy makes sense as a temporary fix for the trials bad design. Unfortunately they completly ignored the PvP aspect and how the aoe cap will affect it...further more they completly ignored all the people posting in various threads, on this matter. This in itself is an insult towards the people that expressed their strong disagreement with this and that asked for an oficial statement/explanation.

  • Cogo
    Cogo
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    I wonder if its mostly Americans who are complaining about this stuff or Europeans.

    I am not sure about this one, but most my posts I get flamed/complained about since I happen to like the game, accept bugs and are more and more impressed with Zenimax work.

    I cant really say, but its both American and Euros who wants to burn me at a stake for every single post I make thats positive about pretty much anything.

    What tops the angre towards me is when I claim that a fix of a overpowered feature/skill/class get fixed, when they call it nerf. I THINK americans are a bit more angry about me for this one.

    But to be fair, I soon expect a mail bomb in my home because I play from sweden, and dont have much problems with lag. That seams to be a lethal sin to even say.....Euro going mad at me for that one.
    Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
    Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
    Guildsite: The Nephilim

    "I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
    -Voltaire

    "My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"
  • Tankqull
    Tankqull
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    janenkel wrote: »
    Elidas wrote: »
    AoE cap is not the solution, it just makes zergs more viable and it makes the game less realistic.

    So, 8 guys destroying an army is realistic ?

    sure, its called intelligance warfare...
    have group of in worst case suiciders sneaking their way into an rallying point and you have hundrets of dead soldiers. killed by a handfull of peeps.

    @cogo
    Cogo wrote: »
    I wonder if its mostly Americans who are complaining about this stuff or Europeans.

    I am not sure about this one, but most my posts I get flamed/complained about since I happen to like the game, accept bugs and are more and more impressed with Zenimax work.

    ...

    What tops the angre towards me is when I claim that a fix of a overpowered feature/skill/class get fixed, when they call it nerf.

    ...

    well the problem is no one mentions a fix as a fix that makes an ability useless and ZOS overshoots any "fix" they have done so far.
    bitung jabs, craglorn, aeos (pathetic vs zergs overly powerfull vs small(er) numbers than your side can field) bash you can go on and on...
    because of this you´ll not recieve some shoulder taps while waving the fanboi flag enthusiastically.
    Edited by Tankqull on May 27, 2014 9:15AM
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • chosco
    chosco
    Soul Shriven
    Happy days:
    Time is this game is over, the last patch was the one who opened my eyes in the direction you want to take the cap area. I can tell you that the last patch the only thing that's got a clan of 48 people leave the game permanently.
  • frwinters_ESO
    frwinters_ESO
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    Cogo wrote: »
    I wonder if its mostly Americans who are complaining about this stuff or Europeans.

    I am not sure about this one, but most my posts I get flamed/complained about since I happen to like the game, accept bugs and are more and more impressed with Zenimax work.

    I cant really say, but its both American and Euros who wants to burn me at a stake for every single post I make thats positive about pretty much anything.

    What tops the angre towards me is when I claim that a fix of a overpowered feature/skill/class get fixed, when they call it nerf. I THINK americans are a bit more angry about me for this one.

    But to be fair, I soon expect a mail bomb in my home because I play from sweden, and dont have much problems with lag. That seams to be a lethal sin to even say.....Euro going mad at me for that one.


    Dont worry I get the same hate as i feed the trolls with how good the game is despite the bugs. It will work itself out in time.
  • Corithna
    Corithna
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    I think you also have to look at the fact that aoe caps are not just about PvP. Multiple mobs with abilities that rely on mob interactions are the primary source of PvE difficulty. No aoe cap means that even a pack of 500 mobs can be burned to the ground in no time. And while that might feel satisfying to a group of players who do so, it is hell to try and create ability balance between single target and aoe spells. In a game that incorporates both of these types of spells in an environment that is focused on large groups of mobs working together, aoe caps are essential.

    Case in point, one of the trials was run by a group of players in about 11 minutes if the information I've read is correct. The way this was accomplished was the players ran straight to each boss pulling all the trash pull mobs with them into a single aoe fireball visible of space. They spammed healing during the run to the next encounter to build up ultimate points only to rinse and repeat through the entire encounter. Clearly these tactics were effective. However it is equally clear that such tactics were not within the intended game play experience.

    It is a very important aspect of this game that both the PvP experience and the PvE experience ability wise/equipment wise, match. This is a huge departure from the normal tactics of other MMO's. Instead what we see are a subset of skills that are designed to work in the PvP space much more effectively. All this crying about aoe caps is amazing to me in that PvP players are sad that PvE abilities are being being made to work well in PvE.

    The excellent player in any game doesn't spend his time on the boards complaining about changes. They are instead in the game figuring out exactly what those changes have done to their builds. They are thinking, planning, and executing changes to their tactics and perhaps even to their builds when warranted. These are the players who will excel regardless of changes that happen. And yes this applies to both the PvP and PvE crowd. Sure they may read and learn, listen and watch. But by and large they are just out there working the system.

    You know the most important factor in any game is it's entertainment value. Is it fun to play. Go out and have fun with this and lighten up guys.
    For all the millions of pages of codified law we have enacted in this nation alone, all of it, every word, sentence, paragraph and nuance, is steeped in the singular idea of this:

    "Be good to one another."
  • Yusuf
    Yusuf
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    Is there actually ANYONE happy with the aoe-cap?
    I mean common, i know dk standards are extremely annoying in pvp but veil of blades and negate magic would (in fact every ultimate) would be so awesome to NOT have an aoe-cap!
    It doesn't make any sense, neither for competitive pvp, pve nor from a philosophical/in-game-established lore point of view: The black bubble negates all magic inside it... except for the 7th one, he will flamebreath your face off!
  • frwinters_ESO
    frwinters_ESO
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    I am
  • Shaun98ca2
    Shaun98ca2
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    I am

    Agree. There is siege equipment to thin out zerg blobs. Whether they stack or spread out chances are you were gonna die anyways unless your group of 6 is just that good then it shouldn't matter HOW they fight really.
  • Tankqull
    Tankqull
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    its sad biggest number allways wins if they are not dumb as hell and stick together.
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


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