Why ESO did not turn out to be what people wanted.

Lalai

aegis156 wrote: »

was your brain engaged when you typed that? Zenimax bought Bethesda, then set up ZOS to make ESO. I fail to see the point of your disagreement.

I believe they were pointing out that Zenimax Media and Zenimax Online Studios are two different things. Zenimax Online Studios is owned by Zenimax Media, as is Bethesda. I don't know how much of that is true, I haven't really gotten into the breakdown of the parent companies and all that.

From my understanding Bethesda had nothing to do with the game other than a slight nod to make sure most the lore stuff stayed in check.. but the development and publishing part I thought they stayed out of. In fact, a lot of the initial negativity towards ESO came because Bethesda wasn't the one developing the game, and that upset fans of the series.

Muletide

It's Elder Scrolls Lore/geography mixed with online multiplayer elements. What else were people expecting? I'm enjoying it thoroughly!

A lot of flame/rage posts appear to be people who have never played a MMO at launch before. Rome was not built in a day... and so far this Rome is much smoother than many launches I've played.

I've had to ask myself upon seeing some of the flame/rage posts: have they even played anything pre-Skyrim? The level of nostalgia I've felt traveling and questing through the familiar lands of previous ES titles is amazing. I feel more immersed in Tamriel with ESO than I have with any of the single player titles.

Finally, as far as the AH, grouping, and inventory goes... it sounds more like people not wanting to adapt to something outside of the MMO cookie-cutter than game flaw.

-I enjoy not having to accept the one economy AH that is often manipulated by gold sellers and market capitalists. If I don't agree with prices from one guild AH I have the option to check out 4 other possible markets!

-I can't identify with the "grouping is broken" comments either. The group tool has dropped me directly into dungeon groups as soon as I close the window and the "travel to player" option is your friend. The mechanics of everyone being able to kill, loot, help, without being in an actual group is awesome! Get the deeds done and move along!

-Just because the inventory is not hoarder friendly does not mean it's broken. It just means you need to sell some junk and weigh the option of whats more important.

In my opinion, ESO has exceeded what I wanted out of this game.

Orizuru

AvdP85 wrote: »

I did not read all the posts (there are way to much). But here the things I get frustrated about in the one month of play:

Leveling:
- in less then a month (although I played a lot of hours) was going faster then any TES game. I am now level 46 in only one month.

Enemies:
- When I was level 20 or a little higher, I still had problems with level 17. At level 40 or higher, I even beat level 48 with ease. I talk about one on one battles.
- Some end bosses I could not defeat even being a higher level then they are, with the best armor of that level, nearing level 30. After passing level 40, I beat even the end bosses of level 45/46.

Public dungeons/caves/quests:
- People just gather around the end boss of it and mining xp, making it less fun and challenging then doing it single handily.
- Also if you do a quest and someone else does the same one, you have to be quick to get the elements you need, or you will have to wait till it 'spawns' again.

Bugs:
- In one month time, I had a lot of bugs (most got fixed already). With some group dungeons/caves, the quests do not pop up for all and you are left out completing it, because you never got the quest started.
- Some enemies are moving strange or can not be hit, with a lot of effort and luck you can hit them.
- Delays in abilities and weapon draws, although it is a mmo, they make you near dead before you can even hit an enemy.
- Random lags, at some points you really start to lag a lot

I could go on, but then you would get a book (and even those are boring to read in ESO). I am waiting what will happen coming month and if the new patch will fix most bugs.

It just almost feels like it has been done in a rush and that they released to game to soon.

The only lag I've seen in-game was during a few of the instanced Mage's Guild quests. I don't play every day though, so I could just be lucky and have not been online when it's an issue.

You might be able to fix any persistent lag problems you are having though by tweaking some graphics settings or opening some ports in your router. It's also possible the problem is not on your end or the game's though, and your ISP is the cause. If that's the case, I don't envy you because most ISPs like to take the Ted Turner approach and just tell their customers that they are wrong for wanting higher bandwidth data pipes when they should want more reliable low bandwidth data pipes. Either way though, I would search or ask about the lag problems in the Customer Support forum because between ZOS and the other players, you might find a solution to this issue.

Happy gaming!

Kiash

Sorry OP, It is the game I wanted. Once the bugs are fixed and bots gone, I wouldn't change a thing beyond adding further content.

Ariane

I can be very patient with bugs and overall I like the game. The thing I cannot stand is the fact I have to do solo quests with role oriented characters, while most time I cannot even hit a mob because there are too many people in every dungeon.

I would love to have more group instanced quest and dungeons, while the rest of the game is full opened. I want to play *with* people and I want to play with the people I choose.

I also think there were lots of people with too high hopes in this game, as in every other game. Hype is never well rewarded

Vraedlich

As an Elder Scrolls fan first and MMO fan second, I FREAKING LOVE THIS GAME.

Vraedlich

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

So you're saying the only people who should be allowed to say what they think the game should be are the ones who agree with you about it being a single player game? That's constructive.

Well the title of this thread is not constructive, it's plain negative bias and one persons opinion.
Equally, just because someone is being negative, does not make it "constructive".

zaria

mutharex wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

I agree Kerin, I think the game will follow a very similar path as swtor. I was being sarcastic when I said it was going to be great for the game, if you took me seriously.

Knovah wrote: »

I am not defending the company or a fangurl (or whatever it is spelled) I simply want to know what you are basing your numbers and FACTS on? They will not release corporate numbers to public and you can only speculate at best.

Yes, it's speculation. But they do release numbers when sales are strong and there is a very small forum presence for a newly released mmo. PvP population is also small. All indicators point to a small population. It's technically still speculation, but if this sold millions like swtor, we'd know.

Took a long time before they released sales numbers for skyrim and it sold well.
Most players are still leveling and don't do much PvP,it will be more but not like beta where it was nothing else to dooand yes this forum is pretty crappy

But I agree had it sold as well as swtor they would have told so,

LOL or maybe they learnt the lesson:never brag about box sales till you at least gone through the 30 days and seen how many renew

This, and more important, number of pc subscribers will affect number of console buyers and this is an pretty long tail as they sell the consoles as fast as they can produce them.

Anyway, the month is almost over an few is done leveling

rawne1980b16_ESO

RianaTheBosmer wrote: »

This is your opinion It is not my opinion or any of the others who are staying subbed. Honestly, once the community is weeded out, it will be a much nicer place.

Yeah ... when people leave a game things can only get better right ... right?




Wrong.

And the community won't improve. Lost count of how many times i've had to say this but things won't change.

Somebody says it in every forum of every MMO ... "after the free month is up (and I always get a laugh at people calling it a free month) things will improve".

Do you know how many times things have improved after the first month is up?

Let me give you a little hint, the number is less than one ... that's how many times. Things don't change, they don't improve, they just stay the same.

Kiash

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

RianaTheBosmer wrote: »

This is your opinion It is not my opinion or any of the others who are staying subbed. Honestly, once the community is weeded out, it will be a much nicer place.

Yeah ... when people leave a game things can only get better right ... right?




Wrong.

And the community won't improve. Lost count of how many times i've had to say this but things won't change.

Somebody says it in every forum of every MMO ... "after the free month is up (and I always get a laugh at people calling it a free month) things will improve".

Do you know how many times things have improved after the first month is up?

Let me give you a little hint, the number is less than one ... that's how many times. Things don't change, they don't improve, they just stay the same.

Disagree, every game I have ever played that was P2P had a better community, especially when the free month wears off.

We both have anecdotal evidence, so this is pointless, but you are wrong imo. I look forward to weeding out the people whining about various aspects of the game I enjoy for what it is, rather than what some one else wants it to be.

zaria

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

RianaTheBosmer wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I've played the Elder Scrolls series for well over a decade. This game feels like an Elder Scrolls game to me. So obviously, I'm insane, or I value different things about the series than you do.

Of course, the issue could be that you (and most other people making this complaint) aren't actually explaining any specifics about what you're missing.

ESO is a linear, restricted theme park.

Other elder scrolls games aren't.

They also made an mmo and made the multiplayer parts completely unrewarding. They finally made multiplayer Elder Scrolls and the multiplayer part sucks. Anyone being objective could spot these issues a mile away and would never say it feels like other Elder Scrolls games when it's barely even in the same genre.

ESO is setup like F2P questing games and falls way short as an mmo. It also falls short as an Elder Scrolls game with it's painfully dull and generic series of solo quests.

This is your opinion It is not my opinion or any of the others who are staying subbed. Honestly, once the community is weeded out, it will be a much nicer place.

Yeah Once all the whiners are gone, the revenue of subs does not cover the monthly expenses and the game finally goes F2P, you will all have a nice time at the nice place called "empty Mega Server NA" and "empty Mega Server EU located in NA".

I envy you for the times to come. I really do!

I still wonder that you are doing here?
You must have an pretty boring life, hanging out on an gaming forum for a game you don't have. No reason to buy it as all the issues in this tread was in beta too.

Please go to the dragon age 2 forum or something. Not saying WOW forum as WOW is a decent game (why else should I play it for two years)
----
And, it natural to complain about bugs and bots, to complain that leveling VR levels is boring and PvP is unbalanced.

Its also ok to want an global action house, instanced PvP, flying bunny mounts and shaved Khaiit. No I don't agree but its an option.

Beta players hanging around defending why they didn't buy the game is not ok.

zaria

Lalai wrote: »

aegis156 wrote: »

was your brain engaged when you typed that? Zenimax bought Bethesda, then set up ZOS to make ESO. I fail to see the point of your disagreement.

I believe they were pointing out that Zenimax Media and Zenimax Online Studios are two different things. Zenimax Online Studios is owned by Zenimax Media, as is Bethesda. I don't know how much of that is true, I haven't really gotten into the breakdown of the parent companies and all that.

From my understanding Bethesda had nothing to do with the game other than a slight nod to make sure most the lore stuff stayed in check.. but the development and publishing part I thought they stayed out of. In fact, a lot of the initial negativity towards ESO came because Bethesda wasn't the one developing the game, and that upset fans of the series.

ZOS and ESO came because of all the money Oblivion made, in this setting they had to option, make two TES studios and start to milk, this would be the EA style cash grab, instead they continued as usual and did something else who was ESO.
Yes its pretty obvious we will get an Fallout online too:)

Lots of the initial negative reaction was the fear that they should stop making TES games, fat chance, they could borrow money from any bank making TES 6, ESO is an high stake gamble.

fredarbonab14_ESO

"Why ESO did not turn out to be what people wanted."

10 pages to work with the opening salvo, which TRIES to establish 3 premises:
1. "Turned Out'; like the game is set for eternity and could never evolve.
2.'People'; guess the absolute horde playing the game right now are Aliens?
3. 'Wanted'; what exactly did they want; and which people wanted what?

I know the OP meant well, but these premises when grouped together lead to a very foolish statement (and thread).

mutharex

alexrpm.mailb16_ESO wrote: »

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

So you're saying the only people who should be allowed to say what they think the game should be are the ones who agree with you about it being a single player game? That's constructive.

Well the title of this thread is not constructive, it's plain negative bias and one persons opinion.
Equally, just because someone is being negative, does not make it "constructive".

I noticed that 'constructive' seems to mean "whine and rage all day long in forum, stomping around loudly, insulting the game and devs, trying to scare other customers away and calling 'delusional fanbois' people who disagree or invites them to calm"

Something on those lines. You know fanbois, those people who don't want the game 'fixed', right?

Flynch

mutharex wrote: »

alexrpm.mailb16_ESO wrote: »

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

So you're saying the only people who should be allowed to say what they think the game should be are the ones who agree with you about it being a single player game? That's constructive.

Well the title of this thread is not constructive, it's plain negative bias and one persons opinion.
Equally, just because someone is being negative, does not make it "constructive".

I noticed that 'constructive' seems to mean "whine and rage all day long in forum, stomping around loudly, insulting the game and devs, trying to scare other customers away and calling 'delusional fanbois' people who disagree or invites them to calm"

Something on those lines. You know fanbois, those people who don't want the game 'fixed', right?

The only fix we'll ever get is from the devs - and it will or won't be the fix people want. Because everyone is different.

Noise and placation have one thing in common - they both mean *** all.

txfeinbergsub17_ESO

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

RianaTheBosmer wrote: »

This is your opinion It is not my opinion or any of the others who are staying subbed. Honestly, once the community is weeded out, it will be a much nicer place.

Yeah ... when people leave a game things can only get better right ... right?




Wrong.

And the community won't improve. Lost count of how many times i've had to say this but things won't change.

Somebody says it in every forum of every MMO ... "after the free month is up (and I always get a laugh at people calling it a free month) things will improve".

Do you know how many times things have improved after the first month is up?

Let me give you a little hint, the number is less than one ... that's how many times. Things don't change, they don't improve, they just stay the same.

And I say you are WRONG! I have played almost every MMO that has come out, and after the first month a bunch of whiners are gone. That itself improves the game immensely without even having to make a change to the software.

Greydog

I'd like to start by answering a question with a question.

Some have asked why their opponents in this debate would buy the game if they were so disappointed with it.

Ask yourselves "why did I buy it?" ..I'd wager their answer would be much the same as yours. Because they wanted to. Even if they had played the beta and gotten the small taste of the pro's and the con's ..they wanted to try it out in full. Maybe see if it got better as they progressed. For some it did, for others ..not so much. Now they have a vested interest in it.

I came to this game as I do with all games ..with no real expectations one way or the other. I'm a D&D player from back in the paper and dice days and am always willing to give a new title a try. Except for the trade/inventory issues and a handful of QOL issues I have enjoyed it well enough.

One thing I would never have expected is the total lack of empathy among some who consider themselves defenders of the game. It seems that in their zealous defense they can find no middle ground nor accept that others may not be as pleased as they. Forget debate, no opposing opinion can be tolerated. All descent must be quashed via vitriolic name calling and labeling. Followed by suggestions that they be silenced all together.

I guess I should have expected it though. After all, that is what's taught in schools and universities these days. That the other side can't possibly be telling the truth therefor they need to be silenced.

txfeinbergsub17_ESO

Greydog wrote: »

One thing I would never have expected is the total lack of empathy among some who consider themselves defenders of the game. It seems that in their zealous defense they can find no middle ground nor accept that others may not be as pleased as they. Forget debate, no opposing opinion can be tolerated. All descent must be quashed via vitriolic name calling and labeling. Followed by suggestions that they be silenced all together.

I guess I should have expected it though. After all, that is what's taught in schools and universities these days. That the other side can't possibly be telling the truth therefor they need to be silenced.

It really doesn't have anything to do with universities. It has to do with the Internet and now allowing everyone to voice their opinions (some are of "higher quality" than others honestly (on both sides). It also has to do with history. Every MMO forum has been a trash heap of the lowest forms of humanity.

There is one flaw in your argument though. It is usually the haters that start these arguments.... just like this thread. The content people don't even come to the forums. The haters aren't content with just voicing their opinions as you so innocently feel they are behaving. This thread purposely used an obnoxious title to get hits as an example.

Greydog

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

One thing I would never have expected is the total lack of empathy among some who consider themselves defenders of the game. It seems that in their zealous defense they can find no middle ground nor accept that others may not be as pleased as they. Forget debate, no opposing opinion can be tolerated. All descent must be quashed via vitriolic name calling and labeling. Followed by suggestions that they be silenced all together.

I guess I should have expected it though. After all, that is what's taught in schools and universities these days. That the other side can't possibly be telling the truth therefor they need to be silenced.

It really doesn't have anything to do with universities. It has to do with the Internet and now allowing everyone to voice their opinions (some are of "higher quality" than others honestly (on both sides). It also has to do with history. Every MMO forum has been a trash heap of the lowest forms of humanity.

There is one flaw in your argument though. It is usually the haters that start these arguments.... just like this thread. The content people don't even come to the forums. The haters aren't content with just voicing their opinions as you so innocently feel they are behaving. This thread purposely used an obnoxious title to get hits as an example.

But are they really "haters" ..or is it possible that they come here to simply voice their displeasure because this is supposed to be the place for such discussion?

You said your self that this is a problem on both sides and I wholeheartedly agree with that. Why place the label, why suggest that they leave or be ignored?

I can guarantee you that while life may be easier, it is certainly not better without opposing viewpoints.

txfeinbergsub17_ESO

This is the New Players Helping Players forum. So coming here to voice their opinion isn't exactly constructive or to the purpose of this forum and immediately turns off a lot of new players that just need help.

Greydog

That's easily fixed.

Sidney

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

This is the New Players Helping Players forum. So coming here to voice their opinion isn't exactly constructive or to the purpose of this forum and immediately turns off a lot of new players that just need help.

Good point on scaring off new players. How do we get a green to move the thread over to CS?

Foul_Corsair

reggielee wrote: »

the only group phasing problems I had were invisible members who just relogged to fix it. took a min. we were waiting to restore majika and stamina anyway.

yes, it would be nice to be able to phase in non dungeon quests with others just so you can hang with your friends as they pve quest. maybe they will address that in the future

the rampant cheating from pvp players is however, mind boggling. i would assume most of the gold buying (for mounts and upgrade parts) is from that sector who are keeping the bots in action in pve areas. I wish there was more player repercussion for gold buying and exploitation

What's this 'rampant cheating from pvp players'?

Greydog

Sidney wrote: »

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

This is the New Players Helping Players forum. So coming here to voice their opinion isn't exactly constructive or to the purpose of this forum and immediately turns off a lot of new players that just need help.

Good point on scaring off new players. How do we get a green to move the thread over to CS?

I'd be for that as long as they also moved the ones you deem as positive but are yet just as unhelpful

neocomab16_ESO

Khandi wrote: »

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

RianaTheBosmer wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I've played the Elder Scrolls series for well over a decade. This game feels like an Elder Scrolls game to me. So obviously, I'm insane, or I value different things about the series than you do.

Of course, the issue could be that you (and most other people making this complaint) aren't actually explaining any specifics about what you're missing.

ESO is a linear, restricted theme park.

Other elder scrolls games aren't.

They also made an mmo and made the multiplayer parts completely unrewarding. They finally made multiplayer Elder Scrolls and the multiplayer part sucks. Anyone being objective could spot these issues a mile away and would never say it feels like other Elder Scrolls games when it's barely even in the same genre.

ESO is setup like F2P questing games and falls way short as an mmo. It also falls short as an Elder Scrolls game with it's painfully dull and generic series of solo quests.

This is your opinion It is not my opinion or any of the others who are staying subbed. Honestly, once the community is weeded out, it will be a much nicer place.

Yeah Once all the whiners are gone, the revenue of subs does not cover the monthly expenses and the game finally goes F2P, you will all have a nice time at the nice place called "empty Mega Server NA" and "empty Mega Server EU located in NA".

I envy you for the times to come. I really do!

HAHA...yes once it goes F2P we can buy all the XP boosts and new mounts and costumes from the cash shop!!!

After all, they need some sort of revenue stream!

dont forget new inventory slots, bank slots and skill lines. ohh the potential profits they could make....glorious. almost as good as selling a mount and another race for 20 bucks lol. that indeed was genious.

TwoScaleSkin

aegis156 wrote: »

was your brain engaged when you typed that? Zenimax bought Bethesda, then set up ZOS to make ESO. I fail to see the point of your disagreement.

Why yes it was, thanks for asking. Zenimax Media also never bought Bethesda. It never had to; it's a shell company created by a founder of Bethesda.

If you're pointing out that it was probably a poor choice for Bethesda to create that shell company and give it power over them, I agree entirely.

Mortelus

d0e1ow wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

Zeni cannot win here, If they make it too MMO in style, they will be going back on their word and will be alienating many more players that came here because of the ES tag.

If they don't change it up then they will get the MMO players complaining that it isn't like other MMO's.

Personal the latter is of less importance I think. Taking into how successful the ES games have been, especially Skyrim, I think it is more important for Zeni to keep the fans of the series happy.

Judging by what I read here in the forums, I think the majority of complainers are not original ES fans, but rather MMO'ers from other games and make up the minority of the player base.

Because from what i see in game is that people are rarely complaining about anything other than bots and spam... As the saying goes, 'proof is in the pudding'

So someone cannot be both an MMO fan and an Elder Scrolls fan? Your point is moot and irrational, because ESO IS an MMO. It's not a single player game and it never will be. It's an MMO.

Therefore, it follows, that they have to design it like a good MMO. In my opinion, they did not. It has nothing to do with me "being a real Elder Scrolls" fan or not. It has everything to do with the fact that the game is an MMO. It could be a Barney MMO and it would still be a bad MMO. What universe the game is set in and whether or not the other games are single player has nothing to do with it. Not one iota. And, for the record, my issue with the game isn't that it's not like other MMO's... it's that it's TOO MUCH like other MMO's. It adds absolutely nothing of value to the genre at all. Read my OP, but if you're not a "REAL MMO FAN" I guess you wouldn't know that. (lol?)

Warcraft games were real time strategy before WoW. Did they tailor WoW to that fanbase or to that genre? No. Because WoW is an MMO.

Ummmm... where did I say they were mutually exclusive groups?

I was generalizing, seems people aren't allowed to do this anymore on forums, or they are, but people seem to have forgotten the principles of generalization.

My point being, there seems to be two groups of complainers here. The ones who are against the immersion and want it more like a WoW clone, with hundreds of skills, name tags, minimaps, dueling, etc... and the ones who complain that it's not like a multiplayer version of Skyrim.

Zeni stated they wanted an immersive MMO, that's what they designed, and that's what pulled in a lot of ES players and MMO'ers alike.

MMO'ers have come here, not seen there usual set up and set about trying to change the game through continuous whining. Similarly ES fans have come here and not seen Skyrim online and complained.

To add, I haven't seen anything in your original post to state exactly how the game would be improved (in your own glorious image).

Moreover, you are now stating that they should have designed it like an MMO, but in your original rant you state they, and I quote "Me: THATS THE THING
Me: THEY TRIED MAKING AN MMO"

So which is it you want?

An MMO or a Skyrim online?

For me, I think this game is original, Locations and art design is very close to other ES games. Crafting is a great change to other games, questing is not repetitive, Classes are fantastically flexible.

Only complaints from me, public dungeons and the fact there isn't a warrior based class with stamina based class skills, seems all class skills use magika.

Mortelus

Gohlar wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Now I understand, you was actually on your own or in group in the world?

The only time you saw other players was in towns or other 'safe' areas, this is where you 'group up' and enter the 'world' which is in fact entirely instanced, you only see your fellow group members and/or henchmen 'out there'.

GW1 was described as a giant 'lobby' for a private instanced game.

And yet it had far superior group play in PvE.

Zenimax doesn't know how to make a decent multiplayer game, it's that simple. No idea why they even bothered making an mmo where all they want you to do endless solo quests.

Probably the laziest design to come out in a long time.

Why don't you check out the new incoming content before whining more about group play. It's a whole new area with major story plots dedicated to small and large groups...

rawne1980b16_ESO

zaria wrote: »

Yes its pretty obvious we will get an Fallout online too:)

That was already in the works by Interplay (who created Fallout before Bathesda bought it) but it got squashed.

We'll have to see how good the long term future of this game is before we start drooling over a Fallout MMO .... although a Fallout MMO would give me the happy.

Alurria

Negative Nancy is negative. The problem is those that continually make the same threads over and over complaining it lacks this or that. And, you know it gets old. State what you would like to see without insulting the dev's or anyone else who disagrees what you have to say. I think most people will respond to a persons ideas for improvement if it's presented properly and not as a whine.

This thread is a joke, it doesn't belong here and I'm not helping by posting this. So I think I will go have some fun in ESO and feel bad for all the haters and hope things settle down on these forums.